Rotoworld GM rankings

[Marvin49]

Re: Kaepernick, I know people here love to hate Kaep, but arguing that he wasn't a great draft pick is just kinda nuts, IMO.

How many QBs have been taken since 2010? How many QBs taken since 2010 would you put above Kaepernick?

The starters are:

Luck (#1 overall)
Newton (#1 overall)
RGIII (#2 overall)
Bortles (#3 overall)
Tanenhill (#8 overall)
Bridgewater (#32 overall)
Dalton (#35 overall)
Derek Carr (#36 overall)
Kaepernick (#36 overall)
Geno Smith (#39 overall)
Wilson (#75 overall)

The other first and second round QBs picked in rounds 1 and 2 in the last five years are: Tebow, Bradford, Clausen, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Weeden, Osweiler, EJ Manuel, Manziel and Garoppolo.

We're talking 21 QBs, and I really only think you can absolutely definitively say that two of them are better than Kaepernick (Wilson and Luck). Even if you wanna throw in Newton you're talking about getting a QB in the 2nd round who in the last five years has only gotten outplayed by two #1 overall picks and Russell Wilson.

You don't have to even like him as a QB to acknoweldge that he was a home run for value in the 2nd round.

I don't have time to respond to all the comments but about Kaep. That might be the worst possible pick also. Here's the thing. You guys are in love with his POTENTIAL and that POTENTIAL is why he is still there starting but so far he hasn't come close to reaching that potential and you no longer have an elite RB or O-line to make his job easier. Keap has been in the best possible situation for a young QB, Drafted by a championship caliber team with arguably some of the best talent in the league and allowed to sit for a year and a half to learn. Then when he is put in his style is so different from Smith he catches the league of guard but since the league has figured him out his performance has dropped off significantly.

Tons of players, especially QB's never reach that potential and the worst one to have is that guy that always flashes and makes you think he is going to get it. That guy can eat up years of an organization before they realize he never will and finally move on.

Last year is a good example of his progress. With the O-line struggling he deteriorated and that was still with an elite receiving corp, TE, very good running game and an excellent defense. What happens if that defense takes a step back like most expect? What if his O-line doesn't improve like many expect? What if the running game becomes just league average like many expect?

It's not about hating Kaep. It's about being able to see what he really brings vs what he potentially brings and outside of Niner fans no one else is viewing Kaep as a great QB or even a potentially great QB.

Honestly I just think the viewpoint of way too many on Kap is just hyperbolic.

It went from "he might be the greatest QB ever!!" from Jaws to "He sucks". Too much hype too quickly followed by huge backlash.

Truth is like most things and it's in the middle. I think right now he's a good QB with potential to be much better...and that ain't bad.

Elite receiving corps? Boldin is really good, but Crab and Vernon were shadows of themselves last year. Crab had no explosion and Vernon was never the same after he hurt his back. Not trying to say none of it was Kaps fault, but calling the receivers "elite" is a bit much.

Funny part is this: Kap admittedly had a down year. He didn't play well for large portions of the season and felt the need to enlist Kurt Warner to improve his weaknesses...namely footwork, delivery, and film study.

Still, even in this horrible season in which he showed everyone he "sucks", he threw for 3300 yards, 19 TDs, 10 INTs. Even though he's referred to as a turnover machine here on .net his CAREER INT% is 1.9...or .2 LOWER than Russell Wilson. He didn't set the world on fire last year to be sure, but he's a long way from being a bad player.

 

[RichNhansom]

Re: Kaepernick, I know people here love to hate Kaep, but arguing that he wasn't a great draft pick is just kinda nuts, IMO.

How many QBs have been taken since 2010? How many QBs taken since 2010 would you put above Kaepernick?

The starters are:

Luck (#1 overall)
Newton (#1 overall)
RGIII (#2 overall)
Bortles (#3 overall)
Tanenhill (#8 overall)
Bridgewater (#32 overall)
Dalton (#35 overall)
Derek Carr (#36 overall)
Kaepernick (#36 overall)
Geno Smith (#39 overall)
Wilson (#75 overall)

The other first and second round QBs picked in rounds 1 and 2 in the last five years are: Tebow, Bradford, Clausen, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Weeden, Osweiler, EJ Manuel, Manziel and Garoppolo.

We're talking 21 QBs, and I really only think you can absolutely definitively say that two of them are better than Kaepernick (Wilson and Luck). Even if you wanna throw in Newton you're talking about getting a QB in the 2nd round who in the last five years has only gotten outplayed by two #1 overall picks and Russell Wilson.

You don't have to even like him as a QB to acknoweldge that he was a home run for value in the 2nd round.

I don't have time to respond to all the comments but about Kaep. That might be the worst possible pick also. Here's the thing. You guys are in love with his POTENTIAL and that POTENTIAL is why he is still there starting but so far he hasn't come close to reaching that potential and you no longer have an elite RB or O-line to make his job easier. Keap has been in the best possible situation for a young QB, Drafted by a championship caliber team with arguably some of the best talent in the league and allowed to sit for a year and a half to learn. Then when he is put in his style is so different from Smith he catches the league of guard but since the league has figured him out his performance has dropped off significantly.

Tons of players, especially QB's never reach that potential and the worst one to have is that guy that always flashes and makes you think he is going to get it. That guy can eat up years of an organization before they realize he never will and finally move on.

Last year is a good example of his progress. With the O-line struggling he deteriorated and that was still with an elite receiving corp, TE, very good running game and an excellent defense. What happens if that defense takes a step back like most expect? What if his O-line doesn't improve like many expect? What if the running game becomes just league average like many expect?

It's not about hating Kaep. It's about being able to see what he really brings vs what he potentially brings and outside of Niner fans no one else is viewing Kaep as a great QB or even a potentially great QB.

Honestly I just think the viewpoint of way too many on Kap is just hyperbolic.

It went from "he might be the greatest QB ever!!" from Jaws to "He sucks". Too much hype too quickly followed by huge backlash.

Truth is like most things and it's in the middle. I think right now he's a good QB with potential to be much better...and that ain't bad.

Elite receiving corps? Boldin is really good, but Crab and Vernon were shadows of themselves last year. Crab had no explosion and Vernon was never the same after he hurt his back. Not trying to say none of it was Kaps fault, but calling the receivers "elite" is a bit much.

Funny part is this: Kap admittedly had a down year. He didn't play well for large portions of the season and felt the need to enlist Kurt Warner to improve his weaknesses...namely footwork, delivery, and film study.

Still, even in this horrible season in which he showed everyone he "sucks", he threw for 3300 yards, 19 TDs, 10 INTs. Even though he's referred to as a turnover machine here on .net his CAREER INT% is 1.9...or .2 LOWER than Russell Wilson. He didn't set the world on fire last year to be sure, but he's a long way from being a bad player.

Better than Wilson if you include the playoffs where Wilson had his worst stretch of Ints and Kaep didn't make the playoffs.

I would trade you Baldwin, Kearse, Lockette and Luke Willson for Boldin, Crabs, Johnson and VD in a second and not blink.

You really need to ask how much Kaep impacted them having a bad year. I think it is a much bigger factor than you will admit.

 

[Popeyejones]

Better than Wilson if you include the playoffs where Wilson had his worst stretch of Ints and Kaep didn't make the playoffs.

???

Nah, you're just making that up. Wilson regular season int rate is .2 higher than Kaepernick's. It's a totally negligible difference, but you're mischaracterizing the statistic as Wilson's 4 INTs against the Packers in the NFCG aren't included in that.

FWIW across the last two years (when they were both full time starters) Wilson's fumble rate is 47% higher too.

I don't have time to respond to all the comments but about Kaep. That might be the worst possible pick also...Tons of players, especially QB's never reach that potential and the worst one to have is that guy that always flashes and makes you think he is going to get it. That guy can eat up years of an organization before they realize he never will and finally move on.

Fine, I guess I'll go there just for the sake of argument and to keep things lively. :lol:

In Kap's bad year last year he passed for 3,369 yards 19 TDs and 10 ints, compared to Wilson's 3,475 yards 20 TDs and 7 INTs. One has crippled an organization with his historically unprecedented team friendly deal and the other is elite? Whatever you say, man...


This is all of course off-topic, and as I always have I still think Wilson is the superior QB, but again, to argue that Kaepernick wasn't a home run of a draft pick -- particularly in the context of QB draft picks, which for whatever reason people still won't actually argue with head on -- is just crazy talk, IMO.

 

[Marvin49]

Re: Kaepernick, I know people here love to hate Kaep, but arguing that he wasn't a great draft pick is just kinda nuts, IMO.

How many QBs have been taken since 2010? How many QBs taken since 2010 would you put above Kaepernick?

The starters are:

Luck (#1 overall)
Newton (#1 overall)
RGIII (#2 overall)
Bortles (#3 overall)
Tanenhill (#8 overall)
Bridgewater (#32 overall)
Dalton (#35 overall)
Derek Carr (#36 overall)
Kaepernick (#36 overall)
Geno Smith (#39 overall)
Wilson (#75 overall)

The other first and second round QBs picked in rounds 1 and 2 in the last five years are: Tebow, Bradford, Clausen, Locker, Gabbert, Ponder, Weeden, Osweiler, EJ Manuel, Manziel and Garoppolo.

We're talking 21 QBs, and I really only think you can absolutely definitively say that two of them are better than Kaepernick (Wilson and Luck). Even if you wanna throw in Newton you're talking about getting a QB in the 2nd round who in the last five years has only gotten outplayed by two #1 overall picks and Russell Wilson.

You don't have to even like him as a QB to acknoweldge that he was a home run for value in the 2nd round.

I don't have time to respond to all the comments but about Kaep. That might be the worst possible pick also. Here's the thing. You guys are in love with his POTENTIAL and that POTENTIAL is why he is still there starting but so far he hasn't come close to reaching that potential and you no longer have an elite RB or O-line to make his job easier. Keap has been in the best possible situation for a young QB, Drafted by a championship caliber team with arguably some of the best talent in the league and allowed to sit for a year and a half to learn. Then when he is put in his style is so different from Smith he catches the league of guard but since the league has figured him out his performance has dropped off significantly.

Tons of players, especially QB's never reach that potential and the worst one to have is that guy that always flashes and makes you think he is going to get it. That guy can eat up years of an organization before they realize he never will and finally move on.

Last year is a good example of his progress. With the O-line struggling he deteriorated and that was still with an elite receiving corp, TE, very good running game and an excellent defense. What happens if that defense takes a step back like most expect? What if his O-line doesn't improve like many expect? What if the running game becomes just league average like many expect?

It's not about hating Kaep. It's about being able to see what he really brings vs what he potentially brings and outside of Niner fans no one else is viewing Kaep as a great QB or even a potentially great QB.

Honestly I just think the viewpoint of way too many on Kap is just hyperbolic.

It went from "he might be the greatest QB ever!!" from Jaws to "He sucks". Too much hype too quickly followed by huge backlash.

Truth is like most things and it's in the middle. I think right now he's a good QB with potential to be much better...and that ain't bad.

Elite receiving corps? Boldin is really good, but Crab and Vernon were shadows of themselves last year. Crab had no explosion and Vernon was never the same after he hurt his back. Not trying to say none of it was Kaps fault, but calling the receivers "elite" is a bit much.

Funny part is this: Kap admittedly had a down year. He didn't play well for large portions of the season and felt the need to enlist Kurt Warner to improve his weaknesses...namely footwork, delivery, and film study.

Still, even in this horrible season in which he showed everyone he "sucks", he threw for 3300 yards, 19 TDs, 10 INTs. Even though he's referred to as a turnover machine here on .net his CAREER INT% is 1.9...or .2 LOWER than Russell Wilson. He didn't set the world on fire last year to be sure, but he's a long way from being a bad player.

Better than Wilson if you include the playoffs where Wilson had his worst stretch of Ints and Kaep didn't make the playoffs.

I would trade you Baldwin, Kearse, Lockette and Luke Willson for Boldin, Crabs, Johnson and VD in a second and not blink.

You really need to ask how much Kaep impacted them having a bad year. I think it is a much bigger factor than you will admit.

NOT including playoffs.

Interception % for Kap: 1.9
Interception % for Wilson: 2.1

Kaps % has been lower in every season until this year when Kap had a Career high 2.1 and Wilson had a Career Low 1.5.

In fact, that 2.1 Kap had this year is lower than either of Wilsons 2 previous years (2.5 and 2.2). Where Wilson really beats Kap is TD %. Career for Wilson its 5.8 for Wilson and 4.5 for Kap. That, however had nothing to do with the turnover machine point I was making.

Seahawks fan views on Kap are skewed badly by 1) Their Hate of all things red and gold, 2) Their hate of Kap in particular, and 3) the fact that most often their only experience watching him play is vs. Seattle, where he is by far at his worst.

I wasn't trying to say BTW that the Seahawks receivers were any better. Just saying Niners corps was FAR from elite last year. Kap shares responsibility for sure, but those guys weren't setting the world on fire either.

I think EVERYTHING was a factor. Kap was a factor. Scheme was a factor. Protection was a factor. Locker room drama was a factor. Underperforming WRs were a factor. It wasn't any one thing.

...and despite ALL of that, Kap didn't have nearly as bad a season as people let on. Wasn't great for sure, but was still nearly a 2-1 TD-INT ratio and 3300 yards.

 

[rideaducati]

Better than Wilson if you include the playoffs where Wilson had his worst stretch of Ints and Kaep didn't make the playoffs.

I would trade you Baldwin, Kearse, Lockette and Luke Willson for Boldin, Crabs, Johnson and VD in a second and not blink.

You really need to ask how much Kaep impacted them having a bad year. I think it is a much bigger factor than you will admit.

NOT including playoffs.

Interception % for Kap: 1.9
Interception % for Wilson: 2.1

Kaps % has been lower in every season until this year when Kap had a Career high 2.1 and Wilson had a Career Low 1.5.

In fact, that 2.1 Kap had this year is lower than either of Wilsons 2 previous years (2.5 and 2.2). Where Wilson really beats Kap is TD %. Career for Wilson its 5.8 for Wilson and 4.5 for Kap. That, however had nothing to do with the turnover machine point I was making.

Seahawks fan views on Kap are skewed badly by 1) Their Hate of all things red and gold, 2) Their hate of Kap in particular, and 3) the fact that most often their only experience watching him play is vs. Seattle, where he is by far at his worst.

I wasn't trying to say BTW that the Seahawks receivers were any better. Just saying Niners corps was FAR from elite last year. Kap shares responsibility for sure, but those guys weren't setting the world on fire either.

I think EVERYTHING was a factor. Kap was a factor. Scheme was a factor. Protection was a factor. Locker room drama was a factor. Underperforming WRs were a factor. It wasn't any one thing.

...and despite ALL of that, Kap didn't have nearly as bad a season as people let on. Wasn't great for sure, but was still nearly a 2-1 TD-INT ratio and 3300 yards.

I think all those factors will still be factors and Kaepernick will not be better than he has been.

All the hype from the mediots was when people were mesmerized by Keeporpick's athletic ability and hadn't really looked into him as a QB. Once there was film on him and people really started to see his flaws, of which there are many, he plummeted back down to where people see him now. Poor passing mechanics, poor footwork, poor/no touch, bails too soon, one read...etc. They now see it all and have Keeporpick rated where he should have been at his highest point.

 

[Marvin49]

Better than Wilson if you include the playoffs where Wilson had his worst stretch of Ints and Kaep didn't make the playoffs.

I would trade you Baldwin, Kearse, Lockette and Luke Willson for Boldin, Crabs, Johnson and VD in a second and not blink.

You really need to ask how much Kaep impacted them having a bad year. I think it is a much bigger factor than you will admit.

NOT including playoffs.

Interception % for Kap: 1.9
Interception % for Wilson: 2.1

Kaps % has been lower in every season until this year when Kap had a Career high 2.1 and Wilson had a Career Low 1.5.

In fact, that 2.1 Kap had this year is lower than either of Wilsons 2 previous years (2.5 and 2.2). Where Wilson really beats Kap is TD %. Career for Wilson its 5.8 for Wilson and 4.5 for Kap. That, however had nothing to do with the turnover machine point I was making.

Seahawks fan views on Kap are skewed badly by 1) Their Hate of all things red and gold, 2) Their hate of Kap in particular, and 3) the fact that most often their only experience watching him play is vs. Seattle, where he is by far at his worst.

I wasn't trying to say BTW that the Seahawks receivers were any better. Just saying Niners corps was FAR from elite last year. Kap shares responsibility for sure, but those guys weren't setting the world on fire either.

I think EVERYTHING was a factor. Kap was a factor. Scheme was a factor. Protection was a factor. Locker room drama was a factor. Underperforming WRs were a factor. It wasn't any one thing.

...and despite ALL of that, Kap didn't have nearly as bad a season as people let on. Wasn't great for sure, but was still nearly a 2-1 TD-INT ratio and 3300 yards.

I think all those factors will still be factors and Kaepernick will not be better than he has been.

All the hype from the mediots was when people were mesmerized by Keeporpick's athletic ability and hadn't really looked into him as a QB. Once there was film on him and people really started to see his flaws, of which there are many, he plummeted back down to where people see him now. Poor passing mechanics, poor footwork, poor/no touch, bails too soon, one read...etc. They now see it all and have Keeporpick rated where he should have been at his highest point.

It's certainly possible.

We'll see. All of the things you mentioned are the things he worked on in Arizona...Poor Mechanics, Poor Footwork, Lack of Touch, Staying in a football throwing position longer, and of course your all-time favorite, one-read.

Can those things be taught? Maybe. Maybe not. He's certainly putting in the work.

We'll just have to see.

 

[rideaducati]

Better than Wilson if you include the playoffs where Wilson had his worst stretch of Ints and Kaep didn't make the playoffs.

I would trade you Baldwin, Kearse, Lockette and Luke Willson for Boldin, Crabs, Johnson and VD in a second and not blink.

You really need to ask how much Kaep impacted them having a bad year. I think it is a much bigger factor than you will admit.

NOT including playoffs.

Interception % for Kap: 1.9
Interception % for Wilson: 2.1

Kaps % has been lower in every season until this year when Kap had a Career high 2.1 and Wilson had a Career Low 1.5.

In fact, that 2.1 Kap had this year is lower than either of Wilsons 2 previous years (2.5 and 2.2). Where Wilson really beats Kap is TD %. Career for Wilson its 5.8 for Wilson and 4.5 for Kap. That, however had nothing to do with the turnover machine point I was making.

Seahawks fan views on Kap are skewed badly by 1) Their Hate of all things red and gold, 2) Their hate of Kap in particular, and 3) the fact that most often their only experience watching him play is vs. Seattle, where he is by far at his worst.

I wasn't trying to say BTW that the Seahawks receivers were any better. Just saying Niners corps was FAR from elite last year. Kap shares responsibility for sure, but those guys weren't setting the world on fire either.

I think EVERYTHING was a factor. Kap was a factor. Scheme was a factor. Protection was a factor. Locker room drama was a factor. Underperforming WRs were a factor. It wasn't any one thing.

...and despite ALL of that, Kap didn't have nearly as bad a season as people let on. Wasn't great for sure, but was still nearly a 2-1 TD-INT ratio and 3300 yards.

I think all those factors will still be factors and Kaepernick will not be better than he has been.

All the hype from the mediots was when people were mesmerized by Keeporpick's athletic ability and hadn't really looked into him as a QB. Once there was film on him and people really started to see his flaws, of which there are many, he plummeted back down to where people see him now. Poor passing mechanics, poor footwork, poor/no touch, bails too soon, one read...etc. They now see it all and have Keeporpick rated where he should have been at his highest point.

It's certainly possible.

We'll see. All of the things you mentioned are the things he worked on in Arizona...Poor Mechanics, Poor Footwork, Lack of Touch, Staying in a football throwing position longer, and of course your all-time favorite, one-read.

Can those things be taught? Maybe. Maybe not. He's certainly putting in the work.

We'll just have to see.

My money is on same old Keeporpick. Every QB looks good against air. Tim Tebow has been trying to change his flaws for 5 years and still can't do it. I doubt Keeporpick fixed his flaws in 12 weeks.