Russell #22 / Earl #21 in NFL Top 100

[RichNhansom]

It's kind of funny to me this whole debate about Wilson. I remember when Hasselbeck was one of the elite QB's in 05 only to lose every receiving weapon, O-line player including coach and running back and yet most seemed to blame Matt for his inability to rise to the challenge. Now were talking about a QB that has exceeded by any possible measure, any realistic expectations you could set on him and done it with a D level receiving corp and O-line that is among the worst in the league.

I'm not even a Wilson fan but holy bejesus what the hell does he have to do to earn your respect. The man has been to two super bowls in his first three years and put his team in position to have it potentially have been there every single year he has QB'd. Do you really think any other QB could have won the games Wilson has to keep us on track for the #1 seed even with the pressure he has had and the receiving corp he's been blessed with? All while playing in the NFC West keep in mind.

For those who think Wilson couldn't excel in other offenses take a look at what he has done when the chains have been pulled off. He is not just undefeated in OT he is perfect. Every single time he has been in O/T he has drove down the field and put up a TD. Every single time. When we have needed him most he has put the team on his back and been insane. Look at the Chicago game his rookie year or the Atlanta playoff game the same year. The guy is insanely calm, focused and driven and the biggest thing holding him back is our system, not his height,

Clutch. That is the one single word I think of when I think of Wilson, just like Montana. The guy has a different gear when he needs to and that is special. If you don't see that then I question your understanding of what he is being asked to do or even what other QB's have been able to accomplish.

So, honest question : After stating "I am not even a Wilson fan...", you go on to type a glowing review of his greatness.
So, the question is, WHY are you NOT a fan?

As I stated above, I watched Hasselbeck go from being considered by most among the elite to considered washed up and over the hill in just the time it took Ruskell to turn the team into one of the least talented teams in the league. Matt went to the Titans and when Kenny Britt and Washington were healthy was in the conversation for MVP.

Wilson is in the opposite side of that. He has yet to have a real O-line, dominant TE or even a good receiving Corp. Yet he is still the winnings QB in the league since his arrival. There has been way to many games that even with this supporting cast, he has taken over games. What will he do now with the upgrade Jimmy brings? What if the O-line is actually good and Lockette contributes?

I'm not a big fan of his personality and wouldn't wear his jersey but I respect what he has accomplished and don't need to try and find holes in his game to tear him down. He's not perfect but who is? If running was a big part of the QB norm you would think Rogers,Brady and Manning are flawed. Wilson has made running part of his weapons in large part because he has had to. Any QB behind or O-line and with our receiving weapons, playing in this division would have to be as mobile or they would probably suck.

Give him Wayne, Hilton, a decent O-line and put him in that division and he would still be successful.

I have a feeling many after this year are going to be singing a different time in regards to Wilson. Hide and watch.

 

[Popeyejones]

Rothy actually had a pretty good year and better than Luck and maybe Wilson.

I don't think there's any reasonable argument that can be made for Wilson having a better year than Rapes.

If someone wanted to argue that the confines of the offense he played in didn't give Wilson the OPPORTUNITY to have a better year than Rapes I'd agree, but it just isn't close, IMO.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Stats don't always equal a "great year."
Plenty of QB's put of 4K plus yards, a ton of TD's etc. only to have nothing to show for it at the end of the year.
Wins (especially playoff wins) are a hell of a lot more important.

 

[Popeyejones]

^^^^ Wins are a team stat.

Cliff Avril isn't better than JJ Watt because the Seahawks made the playoffs and the Texans didn't.

 

[Ruminator]

If RW truly believes he should be the highest paid player in the NFL, watch out! He's going to try to play lights out this season to back it up as much as possible. Should be a very interesting season.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And who said that Cliff Avril was better than J.J. Watt? I am referring to the fact that many people go by stats only when deciding how great a QB is. I'll take wins, playoff wins and Super Bowl titles. Other teams can have their 30 plus TD's, 4K plus yards all they want. In the end, if a QB isn't leading a team in the clutch, which Wilson is VERY good at, who cares? And these lists mean nothing anyway. I'm not sitting here saying that Wilson is better than Brees. Rottenbarfer had a solid season, doesn't make him a better QB than Wilson.

 

[Ramfan128]

And who said that Cliff Avril was better than J.J. Watt? I am referring to the fact that many people go by stats only when deciding how great a QB is. I'll take wins, playoff wins and Super Bowl titles. Other teams can have their 30 plus TD's, 4K plus yards all they want. In the end, if a QB isn't leading a team in the clutch, which Wilson is VERY good at, who cares? And these lists mean nothing anyway. I'm not sitting here saying that Wilson is better than Brees. Rottenbarfer had a solid season, doesn't make him a better QB than Wilson.

Maybe not, but he IS a better QB than Wilson right now.

His point was that wins should not be attributed to the QB. W/L record for a QB shouldn't mean much.

It's weird - you guys know you have one of the best rosters in recent memory, yet don't seem to think 15 other QBs would have led the Hawks to the same success of the past three years - they could have.

 

[Popeyejones]

And who said that Cliff Avril was better than J.J. Watt? I am referring to the fact that many people go by stats only when deciding how great a QB is. I'll take wins, playoff wins and Super Bowl titles. Other teams can have their 30 plus TD's, 4K plus yards all they want. In the end, if a QB isn't leading a team in the clutch, which Wilson is VERY good at, who cares? And these lists mean nothing anyway. I'm not sitting here saying that Wilson is better than Brees. Rottenbarfer had a solid season, doesn't make him a better QB than Wilson.

I understand your point, and my point is that wins are a team stat, not an individual one, and that's even true at the QB position.

If it's super bowl wins that matter that means that Trent Dilfer was a better QB than Dan Marino. If it's playoff wins that means that means that Terry Bradshaw was a better QB than Rodgers pr Peyton, and that Joe Flacco is a better QB than Steve Young, Dan Marino, Kurt Warner, and Russell Wilson.

What Dilfer and Bradshaw have in common is that they were above average players who were blessed to play with amazing run games and amazing defenses. That doesn't make them better than Dan Marino, it makes them lucky.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Agree to disagree, and that's ok. Rapingbarfer is not a better QB than Wilson. And you're wrong about just throwing a QB in here and he'll have the same success. Their pitiful pass blocking is something that he has overcome, and VERY few players can get out of the trouble he does behind that line. And not many win in the clutch at the rate he does, especially in the 4th Quarter and OT. In his 3 years, he's clearly one of the best when the game is on the line.
So easy to claim he only wins because of his Running game and Defense. As if he has very little to do with their wins.

 

[RichNhansom]

Agree to disagree, and that's ok. Rapingbarfer is not a better QB than Wilson. And you're wrong about just throwing a QB in here and he'll have the same success. Their pitiful pass blocking is something that he has overcome, and VERY few players can get out of the trouble he does behind that line. And not many win in the clutch at the rate he does, especially in the 4th Quarter and OT. In his 3 years, he's clearly one of the best when the game is on the line.
So easy to claim he only wins because of his Running game and Defense. As if he has very little to do with their wins.

I wouldn't waste your time with responding. There is clearly an agenda and he is just trying to goat you into a debate he has no intention of trying to be even slightly realistic about. Ignore him, he is not here for conversation he is looking for attention.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

One thing that I haven't heard talked about much is how valuable Russ is to THIS team. Some guys are clearly more valuable to their current team than they may be to another team. I don't get why people assume he wouldn't do well elsewhere, that's nonsense imo. That being said, his abilities are suited best for the Hawks obviously, because he fits perfectly in their system, and they clearly have built it around his abilities. He's a special player, clearly there are better QB's out there, but not for this team.

 

[BadgerVid]

I'm not even a Wilson fan but holy bejesus what the hell does he have to do to earn your respect...

The answer to that for many on this board seems to be to play for whatever the front office chooses to offer him.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Good point. To some, if he doesn't play for 2 million a year, he's not a team guy. How dare he try to get a contract that pays him among the best in the league. :roll:

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's too hot outside. Thanks a lot Wilson.

 

[Smellyman]

Yes Luck belongs in the top 20....you could almost argue that he was the best QB after Rodgers last season.

Here's the list of QBs that have thrown 40 TDs in a season:

Manning, Brady, Marino, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Warner, Luck


That is an elite group of 8 QBs. Stafford is one that was a relative anomaly, but the others are all HOF locks.

I'm guessing we'll look at TD% or passer rating, or how many attempts Luck had. But at the end of the day, in the history of the NFL, these are the only guys that have thrown 40 TDs in a season. I could also argue, if I were so inclined, that Luck potentially had the worst WR/TE group of anyone on this list....not saying he has bad WRs....just the worst of any of QBs in the 40 TD club.

Luck belongs in the top 10 IMO.

At this point, I would put Luck a lot closer to Stafford than I would to Rodgers or Manning. He's been a volume passer. Not particularly efficient, just throws the ball a ton.

I think he's firmly between the elite group, and the next tier - in a tier all by himself right now.

Rodgers/Brady/Manning/Brees

Luck

Romo/Berger/Rivers/Ryan/Wilson/Newton

I hear the volume passer thing for stats, but I look at the rosters these guys play with and how their teams would fare without their QBs, and Seattle would be the best by far. As an example, take Luck and Wilson away and then switch divisions - the Colts would be firmly last place in the NFC West, while the Hawks would win the AFC South. Heck without Luck the Colts would lose the division to the Texans.

Then it's also the eye test...can't always trust stats because it's dependent on who is around the QB.

RW would blow up the AFC South

 

[Ambrose83]

Yes Luck belongs in the top 20....you could almost argue that he was the best QB after Rodgers last season.

Here's the list of QBs that have thrown 40 TDs in a season:

Manning, Brady, Marino, Brees, Rodgers, Stafford, Warner, Luck


That is an elite group of 8 QBs. Stafford is one that was a relative anomaly, but the others are all HOF locks.

I'm guessing we'll look at TD% or passer rating, or how many attempts Luck had. But at the end of the day, in the history of the NFL, these are the only guys that have thrown 40 TDs in a season. I could also argue, if I were so inclined, that Luck potentially had the worst WR/TE group of anyone on this list....not saying he has bad WRs....just the worst of any of QBs in the 40 TD club.

Luck belongs in the top 10 IMO.

REMIND ME AGAIN HOW MANY INTS LUCK HAS IN THE PLAYOFFS?

 

[Hawks46]

JMO, but no way is Wilson better than Brees or Roethlisberger - and I love Russ. I have to go back and look at the game tape, but I remember us hardly being able to complete a pass in the first half of the NFCCG and Super Bowl.

I'd agree with this and take it a step further: look at Wilson's total playoff performances. You have good ones like Atlanta, and bad ones like GB and the SB. He wasn't stellar against Carolina (wasn't bad either), and last year wasn't all that great against NO. He's had more bad performances than good.

Then again, at this point in his career, he's way better than Roethlisburger was. He's still developing, and having such a terrible OL isn't great for developing a pocket passer. He is the best in the league at improvisation, and that's what our team and offense is kind of built around to be honest.

I theorize that the Seahawks want to see if Wilson can get better in the post season and more consistent over all. If he can show consistency (which he didn't last year), and he can show improvement, then there is no reason at all not to pay the guy. But I also don't blame them from wondering if he's at his ceiling as a passer and eventually the legs will slow down and what do you have then ?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

It's not how you start the game, it's how you end it. His playoff record speaks for itself.

 

[Ambrose83]

JMO, but no way is Wilson better than Brees or Roethlisberger - and I love Russ. I have to go back and look at the game tape, but I remember us hardly being able to complete a pass in the first half of the NFCCG and Super Bowl.

I'd agree with this and take it a step further: look at Wilson's total playoff performances. You have good ones like Atlanta, and bad ones like GB and the SB. He wasn't stellar against Carolina (wasn't bad either), and last year wasn't all that great against NO. He's had more bad performances than good.

Then again, at this point in his career, he's way better than Roethlisburger was. He's still developing, and having such a terrible OL isn't great for developing a pocket passer. He is the best in the league at improvisation, and that's what our team and offense is kind of built around to be honest.

I theorize that the Seahawks want to see if Wilson can get better in the post season and more consistent over all. If he can show consistency (which he didn't last year), and he can show improvement, then there is no reason at all not to pay the guy. But I also don't blame them from wondering if he's at his ceiling as a passer and eventually the legs will slow down and what do you have then ?

so 8-8 on 3rd down in the pather game was not stellar? his stats were better then brady untill that pick as well.

 

[StaffAmerica74]

Russ getting so much blame for that green bay game is crazy... he threw one really bad int and had Kearse tipping everything to defenders like he was Sherman tipping balls to Thomas or Malcolm Smith. Then he got that crazy blindside hit to the head that clearly put him in a daze.

Green bay was an anomaly. Pats superbowl he had us up with a nice lead and the defense broke.