Russell Wilson a Tier two QB 6th overall in ESPN ranking

[Popeyejones]

But what point are you trying to clarify? The point I think people are trying to make is Wilson tied for 6/7 on any list, by any writer, exec, coach, fan or player is absurd.

I mean, I'll leave names off b/c I don't have any interest at all in going after individual posters, but if you really want:

1.

Russell Wilson has been grossly underrated in this tier ranking since its inception but this year takes the cake!

Hard to see how this year takes the cake when he got more Tier 1 votes than he has ever gotten, and got the highest ranking he has ever gotten.

2.

always hate how ESPN ranks anything in the Northwest though.

East Coast Bias
Sells Clicks
People Even Live Up There In The
Northwest?

I don't know why fans get so upset about media opinions. They change like the wind.

Remember this?
It’s proof these AssHats have no clue.
They say shit to say shit.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME ESPN

Except players consistently prove they’re even worse than the media at ranking players

These are not media rankings or ESPN rankings. They're the rankings of 50 NFL GMs and coaches which have been compiled by a former Seahawks beat writer who has spent his entire life in the Pacific Northwest

Make sense?

 

[Hasselbeck]

No idea why anyone is upset about this. I'd argue he's a Top 5 QB in the NFL, but 6th is pretty much right in line with that.

Name one QB ahead of him on this list that could put up his numbers and survive past October behind our OL?

Stuff like this though is not a valid argument. This is just mindless filler. Tom Brady isn't coming to the Seahawks in the next 6 weeks. Neither are Rodgers and Brees. So you have no way to prove this one way or the other. The Brady's and Rodgers' of the world though are able to stand in the pocket and handle heat and deliver passes quickly and accurately, something Wilson has yet to show he has a real firm grasp on. He's absolutely lethal when everything goes awry and he's running around frantically, but in the pocket? There have been a lot of up and down moments from Russ.

But popeye nailed it.. this board is filled with fans that try to find a slight from ANYTHING.

 

[Hasselbeck]

I don't know why fans get so upset about media opinions. They change like the wind.

Fact is RW is now with a decent OC and he can shut all his critics up this season.

Schottenheimer a good OC? Good one.

So he sucks already then? :roll:

Read carefully...he said decent OC

Even that is quite the stretch.

 

[Rat]

Who do they have above him?

I'd check myself, but I don't want to give ESPN extra clicks. I've defended them for years, and I still think fans are too rough on the media in general, but after ESPN pussed out by removing reader comments from their articles, I'm hoping their views plummet.

 

[TwistedHusky]

In what world would you have him at anything other than 6th?

He is or was literally the best QB in the NFL in the 4th quarter last year.

But he was near the bottom in the 1st (at least in scoring TDs the thing that QBs are supposed to be doing).

Wilson is a human highlight reel but he is not consistent AT ALL.

I know there are lots of excuses for why he is not consistent but there are plenty of examples where he could have produced, wasn't let down by his line or RB, and didn't. All QBs make mistakes but some QBs are consistent.

When he starts being consistent, he can vault into Tier 1. But yes, right now he is a Tier 2 QB. FROM WHAT WE KNOW.

The big issue, however, is that there is a good chance he was artificially constrained from the god-awful offense that this team was saddled with (and I do not just mean last year). But until he actually produces CONSISTENT results, regardless of the challenges, we would just be guessing that he can be Tier 1 QB.

He had no line and no RB. And he produced will in the 2nd half. It does not mean that giving him those things would automatically turn him into a Tier 1.

A Tier 1 QB can carry a team for the game. Tier 1 QBs can carry teams into the playoffs. And Tier 1 QBs can win meaningful playoff games (I know you consider it moving the goalposts but I do not consider winning wildcard games meaningful playoff games)

6th is right about where I would have him. He isn't better than Brady, Brees, Ben, Ryan or Rivers.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Who do they have above him?

I'd check myself, but I don't want to give ESPN extra clicks. I've defended them for years, and I still think fans are too rough on the media in general, but after ESPN pussed out by removing reader comments from their articles, I'm hoping their views plummet.

Tier 1: Roethlesberger, Brady, Brees and Rodgers.

I'm cool with Russell being in Tier 2. Russell still hasn't proven he can read his progressions, throw receivers open, change plays at the line correctly and confidently......................... and be the insanely accurate and intelligent pocket QB that these four are year in and year out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad as hell he's our QB, but tier 2 seems right to me.

 

[Steve2222]

Wilson is the second best QB in the league. Anything below 2 is disrespectful.

 

[HoldYourHawk]

Colin Cowherd just took 10 minutes to rip this article a new one over Wilson's placement. He cited Russels TD to Int Ratio, Win percentage, and passing numbers, all of which were greater than or equal to Tom Brady and Aaron Roger's. He even went on saying Wilson is doing all of this at 5'11 with a very weak supporting cast, noting that most of Seattles stars were on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[iigakusei]

Wilson is the second best QB in the league. Anything below 2 is disrespectful.

There is no way he is better than either Rodgers or Brady - if you want to argue he is #3 I am all ears.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Meh, they just don't know what they are talking about. Means squat

 

[Seymour]

I don't know why fans get so upset about media opinions. They change like the wind.

Fact is RW is now with a decent OC and he can shut all his critics up this season.

Schottenheimer a good OC? Good one.

So he sucks already then? :roll:

Read carefully...he said decent OC

Even that is quite the stretch.

I'm going to reserve judgement until I see what he can do with a real QB.

Anything better than Bevell is progress, and we know Pete needs a puppet at OC...so there is that too.

I'm more curious about those that made up their mind already and why?

 

[Spin Doctor]

I don't know why fans get so upset about media opinions. They change like the wind.

Fact is RW is now with a decent OC and he can shut all his critics up this season.

Schottenheimer a good OC? Good one.

So he sucks already then? :roll:

Read carefully...he said decent OC

Now you're nitpicking. What I what I was getting at, Schottenheimer is not even a decent OC he is a BAD OC. One of the leagues worst actually, and he has consistently demonstrated this throughout his career. He has a proven track record of failure. You will be one of the guys agonizing over his play calls, guaranteed.

So he sucks already? What do you mean already? The guy has been around the league, and collegiate game 4 times now. He has plenty of work to be judged by. This isn't some new, up and coming OC, he has flamed out wherever he has gone, and fans have rejoiced every time he left.

 

[Rat]

Schottenheimer a good OC? Good one.

So he sucks already then? :roll:

Read carefully...he said decent OC

Even that is quite the stretch.

I'm going to reserve judgement until I see what he can do with a real QB.

Anything better than Bevell is progress, and we know Pete needs a puppet at OC...so there is that too.

I'm more curious about those that made up their mind already and why?

Prediction with past weighted and new things taken into account. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

Congrats though. I guess you'll never be wrong if you only talk with hindsight. Boring though.

 

[Seymour]

I don't know why fans get so upset about media opinions. They change like the wind.

Fact is RW is now with a decent OC and he can shut all his critics up this season.

Schottenheimer a good OC? Good one.

So he sucks already then? :roll:

Read carefully...he said decent OC

Now you're nitpicking. What I what I was getting at, Schottenheimer is not even a decent OC he is a BAD OC. One of the leagues worst actually, and he has consistently demonstrated this throughout his career. He has a proven track record of failure. You will be one of the guys agonizing over his play calls, guaranteed.

So he sucks already? What do you mean already? The guy has been around the league, and collegiate game 4 times now. He has plenty of work to be judged by. This isn't some new, up and coming OC, he has flamed out wherever he has gone, and fans have rejoiced every time he left.

The dude has never had a decent QB so yes I hold out hope. Possibly I will agonize, in fact if he does suck I no doubt will!!. All i'm certain of at this point is your "guarantee" is worthless, it's just an opinion.

For SoulBro....

 

[Seymour]

So he sucks already then? :roll:

Read carefully...he said decent OC

Even that is quite the stretch.

I'm going to reserve judgement until I see what he can do with a real QB.

Anything better than Bevell is progress, and we know Pete needs a puppet at OC...so there is that too.

I'm more curious about those that made up their mind already and why?

Prediction with past weighted and new things taken into account. If I'm wrong, it wouldn't be the first time.

Congrats though. I guess you'll never be wrong if you only talk with hindsight. Boring though.

In this case, yes I did. But boring LOL?? You should read more! I was dead set against bringing in Joeckel and Lacey last year just for starters, and ripped them for cutting Evans also. I also thought we should have signed Incognito instead of Kearse....how did those turn out LOL... All proved ridiculous later obviously.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

The only Guarantee is that he's stoked to be working with a real QB :irishdrinkers:

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

I love Brees but he goes 7-9 three straight years always a tier one. Gets a dominant run game throws less still a tier one QB Russ goes 9-7 K blows two games, no healthy RB’s, scores every TD but one but not a #1

7-9 with an average defensive ranking of 30th and usually a bunch of nobodies as WRs. Brees is criminally underrated.

Wilson has the 11th ranked defense and misses the playoffs.

I'm not knocking Wilson, but Brees is not only tier one, he ought to be in the conversation for GOAT. How many QBs have more than one 5000 yard season? One. And he has FIVE. Brees has had almost NO help from his defense his entire career. It wasn't until very recently that he got a reasonable defense (17th ranked this past season). 10 times in his career he's had a bottom third defense (with multiple 30's, 31's, and 32's), and yet he's still had 11 Pro Bowl seasons. He is, again, criminally underrated.

Big Ben might be past his prime, and perhaps he benefits from the best skill positions in football, so maybe you can argue that Wilson should replace Big Ben. But Brees? No. Brees not only has had no help on defense most of his career, he's ALSO turned no name receivers into effective weapons, repeatedly putting up Hall of Fame worthy numbers despite having pedestrian weapons most of the time and zero help from the defense. When he's had good weapons, they've had their best years.


Let's take Jimmy Graham for example.

With Brees throwing to him, he averaged 12.3 yards per reception, 0.294 touchdowns per reception and 1.02 touchdowns per game started.
With Wilson throwing to him, he averaged 11.8 yards per reception, 0.104 touchdowns per reception and 0.46 touchdowns per game started.

Note these are per reception, so it isn't a matter of volume. Graham averaged more than twice as many touchdowns per game started with Brees and more than twice as many touchdowns per reception started with Brees. He didn't magically get crappier going to Seattle on a play by play basis.

He just went from a QB on the GOAT list to one who is may get there one day but isn't yet.


So knock Big Ben from the list if you want to put Wilson in the Tier 1 category. But when it comes to the best QBs in the NFL, Brees is on Brady's level, and Rodgers if he stays on the field. Those three are in their own tier.

Wilson is the second best QB in the league. Anything below 2 is disrespectful.

There is no way he is better than either Rodgers or Brady - if you want to argue he is #3 I am all ears.

See above. He's at best fourth, because Brady, Rodgers and Brees are in their own tier. And before you go talking about how Brees has dropped in skill, you do realize he just broke the completion percentage record, don't you? Again. And also led the NFL in yards per attempt, so he wasn't dinking and dunking his way to a record like Bradford.

Brees is so underrated it's ridiculous. He has put up GOAT worthy numbers. If he ever had the benefit of a consistent top five defense, top ten, or hell even top twenty, like Brady has for a good portion of his career, he'd have multiple rings and more people would recognize how great he is.

 

[pugs1]

I love Brees but he goes 7-9 three straight years always a tier one. Gets a dominant run game throws less still a tier one QB Russ goes 9-7 K blows two games, no healthy RB’s, scores every TD but one but not a #1

7-9 with an average defensive ranking of 30th and usually a bunch of nobodies as WRs. Brees is criminally underrated.

Wilson has the 11th ranked defense and misses the playoffs.

I'm not knocking Wilson, but Brees is not only tier one, he ought to be in the conversation for GOAT. How many QBs have more than one 5000 yard season? One. And he has FIVE. Brees has had almost NO help from his defense his entire career. It wasn't until very recently that he got a reasonable defense (17th ranked this past season). 10 times in his career he's had a bottom third defense (with multiple 30's, 31's, and 32's), and yet he's still had 11 Pro Bowl seasons. He is, again, criminally underrated.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear I was not advocating for Wilson to replace Brees in Tier one only to join him. I live in the New Orleans NFL TV market and see almost every Saints game. I’m well versed in Drew’s greatness. My point was Brees can go 7-9 three straight years and nobody dares questions his status and I’m cool with that but There is not another QB on that list that could put up the numbers he put up behind that OL.

 

[Ramfan128]

I love Brees but he goes 7-9 three straight years always a tier one. Gets a dominant run game throws less still a tier one QB Russ goes 9-7 K blows two games, no healthy RB’s, scores every TD but one but not a #1

7-9 with an average defensive ranking of 30th and usually a bunch of nobodies as WRs. Brees is criminally underrated.

Wilson has the 11th ranked defense and misses the playoffs.

I'm not knocking Wilson, but Brees is not only tier one, he ought to be in the conversation for GOAT. How many QBs have more than one 5000 yard season? One. And he has FIVE. Brees has had almost NO help from his defense his entire career. It wasn't until very recently that he got a reasonable defense (17th ranked this past season). 10 times in his career he's had a bottom third defense (with multiple 30's, 31's, and 32's), and yet he's still had 11 Pro Bowl seasons. He is, again, criminally underrated.

Big Ben might be past his prime, and perhaps he benefits from the best skill positions in football, so maybe you can argue that Wilson should replace Big Ben. But Brees? No. Brees not only has had no help on defense most of his career, he's ALSO turned no name receivers into effective weapons, repeatedly putting up Hall of Fame worthy numbers despite having pedestrian weapons most of the time and zero help from the defense. When he's had good weapons, they've had their best years.


Let's take Jimmy Graham for example.

With Brees throwing to him, he averaged 12.3 yards per reception, 0.294 touchdowns per reception and 1.02 touchdowns per game started.
With Wilson throwing to him, he averaged 11.8 yards per reception, 0.104 touchdowns per reception and 0.46 touchdowns per game started.

Note these are per reception, so it isn't a matter of volume. Graham averaged more than twice as many touchdowns per game started with Brees and more than twice as many touchdowns per reception started with Brees. He didn't magically get crappier going to Seattle on a play by play basis.

He just went from a QB on the GOAT list to one who is may get there one day but isn't yet.


So knock Big Ben from the list if you want to put Wilson in the Tier 1 category. But when it comes to the best QBs in the NFL, Brees is on Brady's level, and Rodgers if he stays on the field. Those three are in their own tier.

Wilson is the second best QB in the league. Anything below 2 is disrespectful.

There is no way he is better than either Rodgers or Brady - if you want to argue he is #3 I am all ears.

See above. He's at best fourth, because Brady, Rodgers and Brees are in their own tier. And before you go talking about how Brees has dropped in skill, you do realize he just broke the completion percentage record, don't you? Again. And also led the NFL in yards per attempt, so he wasn't dinking and dunking his way to a record like Bradford.

Brees is so underrated it's ridiculous. He has put up GOAT worthy numbers. If he ever had the benefit of a consistent top five defense, top ten, or hell even top twenty, like Brady has for a good portion of his career, he'd have multiple rings and more people would recognize how great he is.

Good post. I have Brees at 3rd all time.

Personally I don't like Wilson as a player nearly as much as other people do. It's probably because he rarely seems to have a good game against the Rams and that's really the only time I watch him for an entire game.

I would rather have the following QBs playing for my team than him:

Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Wentz
Roethlisberger
Rivers


So I would put him around 7th - but I think he gets too much credit for winning when he had possibly the 2nd best defense in NFL history over a three year period behind him.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

:roll: