Russell Wilson a Tier two QB 6th overall in ESPN ranking

[Steve2222]

Seems that if you have a system that your back up can play in and win a Super Bowl you can't knock it. Foles may not be an All Pro but he wasn't Spurgeon Wynn either.

Nick Foles was coaching high school football or something around this time last year all but given up on playing football. He might not be Spurgeon Wynn, but he’s not an upper echelon QB either. Nice hyperbole there.

Who said I was knocking their system? I think their system is great. It makes below average QBs like Foles look All Pro.

Guy plays in a system that makes Nick Foles look All Pro.

Knocking or Mocking you said it right there, grow a pair and own up to your own statement, Hyperbowl my ass I made it big and Yellow so you can see what YOU wrote.

You are misunderstanding what was said. He is not knocking the system; quite the opposite, he is noting that the system is so good it can make Nick Foles look great. He is knocking Wentz and Foles not the system.

Like Sun Tzu said, how the hell is that me knocking their system? I’m knocking the players, Wentz and Foles, not the system.

Philadelphia’s offensive system is so great it can make a scrub (and though he’s not Spurgeon Wynn, yes Foles is a scrub) look great. Like, I don’t know how I can compliment their system more. What are you talking about???

I don’t need to grow a pair, but you apparently need to grow a brain because you seriously lack reading comprehension.

 

[chris98251]

Nick Foles was coaching high school football or something around this time last year all but given up on playing football. He might not be Spurgeon Wynn, but he’s not an upper echelon QB either. Nice hyperbole there.

Who said I was knocking their system? I think their system is great. It makes below average QBs like Foles look All Pro.

Guy plays in a system that makes Nick Foles look All Pro.

Knocking or Mocking you said it right there, grow a pair and own up to your own statement, Hyperbowl my ass I made it big and Yellow so you can see what YOU wrote.

You are misunderstanding what was said. He is not knocking the system; quite the opposite, he is noting that the system is so good it can make Nick Foles look great. He is knocking Wentz and Foles not the system.

Like Sun Tzu said, how the hell is that me knocking their system? I’m knocking the players, Wentz and Foles, not the system.

Philadelphia’s offensive system is so great it can make a scrub (and though he’s not Spurgeon Wynn, yes Foles is a scrub) look great. Like, I don’t know how I can compliment their system more. What are you talking about???

I don’t need to grow a pair, but you apparently need to grow a brain because you seriously lack reading comprehension.

So Brady is a system QB also all he has done is succeed in the New England System, Garoppolo, Mallet, Cassel, and others have played and succeeded there and busted elsewhere or were just serviceable after traded. Or just a product of Josh McDaniels abilities. Remember he also made Cutler look all world as well. You can look at this a lot of different ways. Some would call it having a damn good OC.

Oh if you want to get into a pissing contest bring it on, can do that in the Shack with you no problem.

 

[Steve2222]

Brady has had multiple OCs in his career, and all of them have been Head Coaches in the NFL at least once. Some of that is because of Brady, and some of it is because they are great offensive minds. Brady is great, but he definitely had a lot of things go his way in terms of support, both personal and system.

A lot of things guys like Wilson and Rodgers haven’t had the luxury off. I mean, Bevell got fired and is currently unemployed by the NFL. Does that not speak volumes? If Bledsoe didn’t get hurt, Brady’s career probably looks a whole lot different right now.



I’m sorry guys. Nick Foles isn’t all of a sudden a good QB now. And yeah, I’m here all day. Let’s go.

 

[brimsalabim]

For that matter what might Brady's career look like if Pete hadn't gotten fired the year prior to Brady being drafted?

 

[adeltaY]

Aaron Schatz of "Football Outsiders" was on ESPN Golic morning show today and said what worry's him most about the Seahawks this year is that under new Shotty our offence could conceivably get worse. He explained that Pete says publicly and maintains that "He want's to run the ball even when the other team knows we are running". He want's to run the ball even if the O-line can't block it. Now I get that every coach would like to be able to impose their will on the opposition and I am a big fan of staying on schedule ball control when it can be done. Just don't continually dig holes that you can't get out of. When the other team expects run some times that's exactly when you need to pass.

Man they better figure out how to run well then. I saw a tweet yesterday (can't find it now, sorry) that said in the first half last year we ran on over 50% of our 1st and 10s during the first half of games even though we SUCKED at running and our success rate was horrific. That's just as much of a reason for our slow starts as Wilson's struggles, probably more, because it put us behind the sticks consistently.

Steve - I totally agree with your point on Wentz. The guy has had one great year and one meh rookie year - we can't say whether it's the system or the player for certain yet, but the fact that Foles was able to win the SB definitely hints at the former.

Using Brady as a counterexample ain't right. He's played for something like 17 years and has been a monster passer since at least 2007. Yes, McDaniels is a great OC, but you can't compare a decade of Brady putting up amazing numbers to Wentz doing so only in his second year. If Wentz does it for two more years and has to endure some hardships (receivers get injured, OL gets worse/injured, more tape out there on the system - Brady has been through all this at some point in his career) then we can start to talk about him being great. For now, anyone who has him high in the top 10 for QBs is going off recency bias IMO.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Brady has had multiple OCs in his career, and all of them have been Head Coaches in the NFL at least once. Some of that is because of Brady, and some of it is because they are great offensive minds. Brady is great, but he definitely had a lot of things go his way in terms of support, both personal and system.

A lot of things guys like Wilson and Rodgers haven’t had the luxury off. I mean, Bevell got fired and is currently unemployed by the NFL. Does that not speak volumes? If Bledsoe didn’t get hurt, Brady’s career probably looks a whole lot different right now.



I’m sorry guys. Nick Foles isn’t all of a sudden a good QB now. And yeah, I’m here all day. Let’s go.

Charlie Weis's offenses have been bad since he left the Patriots, McDaniel's had a good offensive season in Denver, and Bill O'Brien is hard to judge since he really has had some bad luck on his teams with the Penn State sanctions because of the ol' rusty Sandusky, and the Texans state of flux. His offensive rankings on the Texans hasn't been anything note worthy.

I think one thing we should note is that Bill Billichick has a lot of experience coaching both sides of the ball. I looked at his coaching background and he has really done a little of everything. He spent quite a bit of time coaching special teams, wide receiver, and tight end. When he got the the NY Giants he started out as a defensive assistant coach, and eventually got the defensive coordinator role. His father was also an offensive coordinator in college, as well as a scout later in life. Billichick would follow him around, and draw plays as well. So -- he just kind of fell into his job as a defensive coach. He has shown an aptitude in every facet, offensive, defensive, and special teams. This could be one of the reasons for his success. He has a very wide view, and you can't really pigeon hole him as one type of coach. He knows how to wear many different hats.

Many coaches, including ours is rigid in their approach. They specialize in one area of coaching, and that is their baby. I suspect that Billichick has had his hands in the offense the whole time he has been around. The golden boy Josh McDaniels hasn't even been great outside of NE, though he was able to make Orton, and Tebow look serviceable which is quite a feat.

 

[lobohawk]

I worry less about where Wilson ranks compared to the other QBs. I know he's good enough to be in the discussion as a top flight QB. When QBs get in that top five range, there are so many factors involved in their success it becomes hard to say if it's the QB, the Coach, the scheme, teammates, the opponents, etc.

But what really sticks out over all the years I've watched him, college and pros, is that he's one of the most entertaining QBs I've ever watched. You will see things never done before. As good as Brady is, nothing he's done stands out from other historical great QBs. Same throws, etc. So a great QB that's fun to watch, I'll take that over most of the others. This game is entertainment after all.

 

[adeltaY]

I worry less about where Wilson ranks compared to the other QBs. I know he's good enough to be in the discussion as a top flight QB. When QBs get in that top five range, there are so many factors involved in their success it becomes hard to say if it's the QB, the Coach, the scheme, teammates, the opponents, etc.

But what really sticks out over all the years I've watched him, college and pros, is that he's one of the most entertaining QBs I've ever watched. You will see things never done before. As good as Brady is, nothing he's done stands out from other historical great QBs. Same throws, etc. So a great QB that's fun to watch, I'll take that over most of the others. This game is entertainment after all.

I'd say his consistency and some of the comebacks he's had have been unique to him.

I do agree that Wilson is the most entertaining to watch, which is the main reason I'd prefer to have him over any other QB.

 

[Spin Doctor]

I worry less about where Wilson ranks compared to the other QBs. I know he's good enough to be in the discussion as a top flight QB. When QBs get in that top five range, there are so many factors involved in their success it becomes hard to say if it's the QB, the Coach, the scheme, teammates, the opponents, etc.

But what really sticks out over all the years I've watched him, college and pros, is that he's one of the most entertaining QBs I've ever watched. You will see things never done before. As good as Brady is, nothing he's done stands out from other historical great QBs. Same throws, etc. So a great QB that's fun to watch, I'll take that over most of the others. This game is entertainment after all.

I don't find Russ fun to watch, more frustrating than anything. Yes, he makes big plays, but there are times where he is absolutely unwatchable as well. I guess if you like the big "wow plays" and fourth quarter comebacks he is the guy to watch.

As for Brady "nothing he does stands out from other historical great QBs" my response to that is then you need to watch more Brady. Like Russ he is one of the best 4th Quarter QBs, and when he needs to be he is deceptively elusive in the pocket. He does little moves that make people miss, and he has great situational awareness. Being able to watch him, and Manning has been a real treat as a fan of the game.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

Sorry if I wasn’t clear I was not advocating for Wilson to replace Brees in Tier one only to join him. I live in the New Orleans NFL TV market and see almost every Saints game. I’m well versed in Drew’s greatness. My point was Brees can go 7-9 three straight years and nobody dares questions his status and I’m cool with that but There is not another QB on that list that could put up the numbers he put up behind that OL.

I can see the argument that Big Ben maybe shouldn't be up there. He surely can still throw a deep dime, but he also has the best weapons in the game, and threw 5 picks versus Jacksonville.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

lol at that Rams fan who would take Wentz over Wilson. Guy plays in a system that makes Nick Foles look All Pro. Wilson looks bad against the Rams? Derr that’s what happens when you put the worst OL up against the best DL genius.

Better hope you guys win the Super Bowl before Donald gets paid QB money and Average Goff sets the QB market.

Seems that if you have a system that your back up can play in and win a Super Bowl you can't knock it. Foles may not be an All Pro but he wasn't Spurgeon Wynn either.

The Eagles also had extremely underrated skill position talent, and a very good o-line even with the backups. Not knocking Wentz. He's a riser. But those WRs and TEs and RBs are no joke.

 

[Steve2222]

Yep the Eagles had two first team All Pros on their OL last year, Lane Johnson and Jason Kelce. For part of the year, they had a third in Jason Peters. Russell Wilson would be unstoppable playing with Philly. It wouldn’t be fair to the league.