Russell Wilson a Tier two QB 6th overall in ESPN ranking

[Hasselbeck]

I don't know why fans get so upset about media opinions. They change like the wind.

Fact is RW is now with a decent OC and he can shut all his critics up this season.

Schottenheimer a good OC? Good one.

So he sucks already then? :roll:

Read carefully...he said decent OC

Now you're nitpicking. What I what I was getting at, Schottenheimer is not even a decent OC he is a BAD OC. One of the leagues worst actually, and he has consistently demonstrated this throughout his career. He has a proven track record of failure. You will be one of the guys agonizing over his play calls, guaranteed.

So he sucks already? What do you mean already? The guy has been around the league, and collegiate game 4 times now. He has plenty of work to be judged by. This isn't some new, up and coming OC, he has flamed out wherever he has gone, and fans have rejoiced every time he left.

Don't think I could have put it any better myself. Simply put, if Schottenheimer were hired by the Niners or Cardinals, 99% of this board would be laughing at that hire to this day. Now it's "oh well he just needed a QB!"

 

[Ozzy]

https://twitter.com/theherd/status/1022 ... 09568?s=21

It’s crazy to me people on this fan base still don’t get it. Russell can’t throw from the picket or make reads etc. I’m not sure how we are watching the same games. I even read a scouts description of Wilson and he said his read progressions were very good but the concepts limited him. Wilson is somehow under appreciated. He’s not perfect but he’s an all time great.

 

[Hasselbeck]

7-9 with an average defensive ranking of 30th and usually a bunch of nobodies as WRs. Brees is criminally underrated.

Wilson has the 11th ranked defense and misses the playoffs.

I'm not knocking Wilson, but Brees is not only tier one, he ought to be in the conversation for GOAT. How many QBs have more than one 5000 yard season? One. And he has FIVE. Brees has had almost NO help from his defense his entire career. It wasn't until very recently that he got a reasonable defense (17th ranked this past season). 10 times in his career he's had a bottom third defense (with multiple 30's, 31's, and 32's), and yet he's still had 11 Pro Bowl seasons. He is, again, criminally underrated.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear I was not advocating for Wilson to replace Brees in Tier one only to join him. I live in the New Orleans NFL TV market and see almost every Saints game. I’m well versed in Drew’s greatness. My point was Brees can go 7-9 three straight years and nobody dares questions his status and I’m cool with that but There is not another QB on that list that could put up the numbers he put up behind that OL.

Brees is in Tier 1 in large part because of what he's accomplished over the course of his career. You're absolutely correct in that he's been woefully underrated his entire career.

Since you are very familiar with Brees too, you should also see that Brees is far and away the better pocket QB of the two. Russ has Drew beat handily in the mobility department.. but as a pure passer, Brees is one of the best of all-time. I think that's a lot of what this system dives into - ranking them as pure QB's more so than some other attributes.

Further.. I'm not sure how Russ being ranked 6th out of some 90-100 QB's in the NFL is disrespect? Your point that Brees could have bad years and still be fawned over while Russ goes 9-7 and drops a tier is just.. off. Russell Wilson is a damn good QB and better than most in this league, but he's not at the level of the ones in their 1st tier (well you could argue him against Ben but Rodgers/Brady/Brees.. no way) And again.. saying "no other QB could have done what Russ did last year!" is simply not a point that can be proven correct or incorrect. It's useless in this argument. I for one believe a fully healthy Aaron Rodgers, Tom Brady or Drew Brees would be perfectly fine on this team as they have the ability to get rid of the ball quickly and stand in the pocket to do so. Russ is very inconsistent in this department and I think that's a major reason why he's ranked 6th and not 3rd.

 

[Seymour]

I love Brees but he goes 7-9 three straight years always a tier one. Gets a dominant run game throws less still a tier one QB Russ goes 9-7 K blows two games, no healthy RB’s, scores every TD but one but not a #1

7-9 with an average defensive ranking of 30th and usually a bunch of nobodies as WRs. Brees is criminally underrated.

Wilson has the 11th ranked defense and misses the playoffs.

I'm not knocking Wilson, but Brees is not only tier one, he ought to be in the conversation for GOAT. How many QBs have more than one 5000 yard season? One. And he has FIVE. Brees has had almost NO help from his defense his entire career. It wasn't until very recently that he got a reasonable defense (17th ranked this past season). 10 times in his career he's had a bottom third defense (with multiple 30's, 31's, and 32's), and yet he's still had 11 Pro Bowl seasons. He is, again, criminally underrated.

Big Ben might be past his prime, and perhaps he benefits from the best skill positions in football, so maybe you can argue that Wilson should replace Big Ben. But Brees? No. Brees not only has had no help on defense most of his career, he's ALSO turned no name receivers into effective weapons, repeatedly putting up Hall of Fame worthy numbers despite having pedestrian weapons most of the time and zero help from the defense. When he's had good weapons, they've had their best years.


Let's take Jimmy Graham for example.

With Brees throwing to him, he averaged 12.3 yards per reception, 0.294 touchdowns per reception and 1.02 touchdowns per game started.
With Wilson throwing to him, he averaged 11.8 yards per reception, 0.104 touchdowns per reception and 0.46 touchdowns per game started.

Note these are per reception, so it isn't a matter of volume. Graham averaged more than twice as many touchdowns per game started with Brees and more than twice as many touchdowns per reception started with Brees. He didn't magically get crappier going to Seattle on a play by play basis.

He just went from a QB on the GOAT list to one who is may get there one day but isn't yet.


So knock Big Ben from the list if you want to put Wilson in the Tier 1 category. But when it comes to the best QBs in the NFL, Brees is on Brady's level, and Rodgers if he stays on the field. Those three are in their own tier.

Wilson is the second best QB in the league. Anything below 2 is disrespectful.

There is no way he is better than either Rodgers or Brady - if you want to argue he is #3 I am all ears.

See above. He's at best fourth, because Brady, Rodgers and Brees are in their own tier. And before you go talking about how Brees has dropped in skill, you do realize he just broke the completion percentage record, don't you? Again. And also led the NFL in yards per attempt, so he wasn't dinking and dunking his way to a record like Bradford.

Brees is so underrated it's ridiculous. He has put up GOAT worthy numbers. If he ever had the benefit of a consistent top five defense, top ten, or hell even top twenty, like Brady has for a good portion of his career, he'd have multiple rings and more people would recognize how great he is.

Good post. I have Brees at 3rd all time.

Personally I don't like Wilson as a player nearly as much as other people do. It's probably because he rarely seems to have a good game against the Rams and that's really the only time I watch him for an entire game.

I would rather have the following QBs playing for my team than him:

Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Wentz
Roethlisberger
Rivers


So I would put him around 7th - but I think he gets too much credit for winning when he had possibly the 2nd best defense in NFL history over a three year period behind him.

Why the hell dies this site tolerate these dumb ass troll posts here?? This is so ridiculous!!!
ukeface:

Putting together game winning drives is NOT relying on his defense. It's being clutch!

1. Russell Wilson holds the record for game-winning drives through a quarterback's first four seasons.

Wilson has brought the Seahawks back 18 times since the start of 2012. Pete Carroll constantly preaches "finish" and according to the Almanac, Wilson has done his part. When the team has faltered down the stretch, it's often been the defense that's had issues.

In the fourth quarter last year, Wilson posted a passer rating of 114.8, tops in the NFL. His nine to one touchdown to interception ratio in the fourth also ranked first.

Overall, the Seahawks have been an incredibly difficult team to blow out. According to the Almanac, they've either led or been within one score in the fourth quarter of 88 consecutive games. That's the longest streak in NFL history.

http://www.espn.com/blog/seattle-se...-for-game-winning-drives-through-four-seasons

 

[scutterhawk]

Hey at least they finally ranked him ahead of Luck. Progress! I think Brady ranked Wilson in the top 4 for whatever that’s worth.

LOL, what the hell would Brady know about where Wilson should fit in the rankings at Quarterback?, maybe he should consult with an expert from ESPN, or the NFL before giving his nobody opinion. :laugh:

 

[AROS]

Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson. In that order, period.

 

[Seymour]

https://twitter.com/theherd/status/1022180178435309568?s=21

It’s crazy to me people on this fan base still don’t get it. Russell can’t throw from the picket or make reads etc. I’m not sure how we are watching the same games. I even read a scouts description of Wilson and he said his read progressions were very good but the concepts limited him. Wilson is somehow under appreciated. He’s not perfect but he’s an all time great.

Thank you!
The one pundit that can use his brain, support his stance over and over with FACTS, and has undeniable logic. Something that alludes too many opinions on this topic...in mine.

 

[homerun1970]

Good post. I have Brees at 3rd all time.

Personally I don't like Wilson as a player nearly as much as other people do. It's probably because he rarely seems to have a good game against the Rams and that's really the only time I watch him for an entire game.

I would rather have the following QBs playing for my team than him:

Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Wentz
Roethlisberger
Rivers


So I would put him around 7th - but I think he gets too much credit for winning when he had possibly the 2nd best defense in NFL history over a three year period behind him.

Let's see your shocked that a Qb with a poor offensive line rarely has a good game against the Rams. That's a myopic view. It's a case of the outstanding strength of a defense matching up against what has been the others largest weakness. That would be me saying well Gurley is not good or overated due to the fact the only time I watch him is against the Seahawks defense. Gurley therefore rarely does squat regardless if he tears the rest of the NFL a new one.

 

[Steve2222]

lol at that Rams fan who would take Wentz over Wilson. Guy plays in a system that makes Nick Foles look All Pro. Wilson looks bad against the Rams? Derr that’s what happens when you put the worst OL up against the best DL genius.

Better hope you guys win the Super Bowl before Donald gets paid QB money and Average Goff sets the QB market.

 

[chris98251]

lol at that Rams fan who would take Wentz over Wilson. Guy plays in a system that makes Nick Foles look All Pro. Wilson looks bad against the Rams? Derr that’s what happens when you put the worst OL up against the best DL genius.

Better hope you guys win the Super Bowl before Donald gets paid QB money and Average Goff sets the QB market.

Seems that if you have a system that your back up can play in and win a Super Bowl you can't knock it. Foles may not be an All Pro but he wasn't Spurgeon Wynn either.

 

[WilsonMVP]

I love Brees but he goes 7-9 three straight years always a tier one. Gets a dominant run game throws less still a tier one QB Russ goes 9-7 K blows two games, no healthy RB’s, scores every TD but one but not a #1

7-9 with an average defensive ranking of 30th and usually a bunch of nobodies as WRs. Brees is criminally underrated.

Wilson has the 11th ranked defense and misses the playoffs.

I'm not knocking Wilson, but Brees is not only tier one, he ought to be in the conversation for GOAT. How many QBs have more than one 5000 yard season? One. And he has FIVE. Brees has had almost NO help from his defense his entire career. It wasn't until very recently that he got a reasonable defense (17th ranked this past season). 10 times in his career he's had a bottom third defense (with multiple 30's, 31's, and 32's), and yet he's still had 11 Pro Bowl seasons. He is, again, criminally underrated.

Big Ben might be past his prime, and perhaps he benefits from the best skill positions in football, so maybe you can argue that Wilson should replace Big Ben. But Brees? No. Brees not only has had no help on defense most of his career, he's ALSO turned no name receivers into effective weapons, repeatedly putting up Hall of Fame worthy numbers despite having pedestrian weapons most of the time and zero help from the defense. When he's had good weapons, they've had their best years.


Let's take Jimmy Graham for example.

With Brees throwing to him, he averaged 12.3 yards per reception, 0.294 touchdowns per reception and 1.02 touchdowns per game started.
With Wilson throwing to him, he averaged 11.8 yards per reception, 0.104 touchdowns per reception and 0.46 touchdowns per game started.

Note these are per reception, so it isn't a matter of volume. Graham averaged more than twice as many touchdowns per game started with Brees and more than twice as many touchdowns per reception started with Brees. He didn't magically get crappier going to Seattle on a play by play basis.

He just went from a QB on the GOAT list to one who is may get there one day but isn't yet.


So knock Big Ben from the list if you want to put Wilson in the Tier 1 category. But when it comes to the best QBs in the NFL, Brees is on Brady's level, and Rodgers if he stays on the field. Those three are in their own tier.

Wilson is the second best QB in the league. Anything below 2 is disrespectful.

There is no way he is better than either Rodgers or Brady - if you want to argue he is #3 I am all ears.

See above. He's at best fourth, because Brady, Rodgers and Brees are in their own tier. And before you go talking about how Brees has dropped in skill, you do realize he just broke the completion percentage record, don't you? Again. And also led the NFL in yards per attempt, so he wasn't dinking and dunking his way to a record like Bradford.

Brees is so underrated it's ridiculous. He has put up GOAT worthy numbers. If he ever had the benefit of a consistent top five defense, top ten, or hell even top twenty, like Brady has for a good portion of his career, he'd have multiple rings and more people would recognize how great he is.

Good post. I have Brees at 3rd all time.

Personally I don't like Wilson as a player nearly as much as other people do. It's probably because he rarely seems to have a good game against the Rams and that's really the only time I watch him for an entire game.

I would rather have the following QBs playing for my team than him:

Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Wentz
Roethlisberger
Rivers


So I would put him around 7th - but I think he gets too much credit for winning when he had possibly the 2nd best defense in NFL history over a three year period behind him.

While it is true about him not playing his best against the rams....

Seahawks are 6-6 against the Rams with Wilson at QB

He has 2636 yards 65% completion, 14TD 8INT 91,2 QB rating being sacked 49 times (248 sacks total in regular season for his career) with 350 rushing yards and 2TD

Funny enough hes only 6-5-1 against the Cards

 

[WilsonMVP]

Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Wilson. In that order, period.

Not sure how anyone could argue against this. SAINTS Drew Brees has 2nd best NFL QB rating at 99.6 behind only Rodgers...his time in San Diego kind of drags it down for total career to 96.7.

Only thing I would say is of the 4 Brees has played in a Dome for 119 games of his career with a 102.6 rating and 69% completion ratio

Brady has played 13 games in a dome
Wilson has played 8 games in a dome
Rodgers has played 24 games in a dome


So....I will give Brees all the respect and credit he deserves but we have to factor in he played over 100 games in a dome which gives him an obvious advantage.

Brees outdoors, granted most are away games, has a 90.9 rating and 64% completion percentage

 

[adeltaY]

When has Rivers carried his team to meaningful playoff wins, Twisted? Or Ben, for that matter?

 

[Fade]

People are totally just skipping over the coaching factor.

Brees made 1 prowbowl in 5 seasons with the Chargers. He links up with Payton, and becomes a HoF. He is an awesome top 5 QB for sure, the system can effect everything though -> see Goff as a recent example.

Put Wilson on the Steelers, and they become the Superbowl favorite in the AFC. Wilson has been putting up better numbers than Ben, with worse talent, and a crap scheme. Wilson > Ben at this juncture.

Fun fact Wilson & Brees have similar passing statistics over the last 3 seasons. So how is Brees better, when Wilson achieved those passing numbers with crappier coaching, and no O-Line. Add on the rushing numbers, and scrambling ability. Factor in age and it isn't even a comparison. Wilson > Brees at this juncture.


The Big 4 statistically are Wilson, Brady, Brees, Rodgers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/8wfbc0/russell_wilson_vs_brady_brees_and/
Here are the numbers, bare in mind Wilson's O-Line & Scheme have been trash. The other 3 have much better situations.

So Rank the O-Lines, and Schemes before you rank who has the better PASSING statistics.


Now factor in Scrambling, Leading your team in rushing, Durability, and Clutch factor.

Russell is a top 4 QB, period.

 

[Str8OuttaSkittles]

lol those talking heads are tier 10 garbage. ben 10 a tier 1 is laughable

 

[Spin Doctor]

People are totally just skipping over the coaching factor.

Brees made 1 prowbowl in 5 seasons with the Chargers. He links up with Payton, and becomes a HoF. He is an awesome top 5 QB for sure, the system can effect everything though -> see Goff as a recent example.

Put Wilson on the Steelers, and they become the Superbowl favorite in the AFC. Wilson has been putting up better numbers than Ben, with worse talent, and a crap scheme. Wilson > Ben at this juncture.

Fun fact Wilson & Brees have similar passing statistics over the last 3 seasons. So how is Brees better, when Wilson achieved those passing numbers with crappier coaching, and no O-Line. Add on the rushing numbers, and scrambling ability. Factor in age and it isn't even a comparison. Wilson > Brees at this juncture.


The Big 4 statistically are Wilson, Brady, Brees, Rodgers.

https://www.reddit.com/r/nfl/comments/8wfbc0/russell_wilson_vs_brady_brees_and/
Here are the numbers, bare in mind Wilson's O-Line & Scheme have been trash. The other 3 have much better situations.

So Rank the O-Lines, and Schemes before you rank who has the better PASSING statistics.


Now factor in Scrambling, Leading your team in rushing, Durability, and Clutch factor.

Russell is a top 4 QB, period.

I'd say Brees and Wilson are virtually interchangeable. I could understand why people would still rank Brees ahead of Wilson given his huge body of work. One also must consider that Brees has had seasons where he carried a poor defense, and mediocre supporting cast on his back as well. As a pure passer I do believe 100% that there is no contest between Russ, and Brees. When you add in the scrambling it becomes a toss up. I personally wouldn't hold a grudge if a random pundit put Brees above Wilson, or vise versa if I were a Saint fan.

I think the big hang up for professionals and pundits alike over anointing Russ as the "chosen one" is the wild inconsistency we see from him on a quarter by quarter basis. Traditionally he has struggled in the first, and third quarter of games, and most recently he has struggled in three quarters. He goes from being more accurate than Tom Brady to missing gimmie shots. When Russ is on he is the best QB in the league, when he is not he looks like he can't get out of his own way. He is the Dr. Jekle and Mr. Hyde of QB's. This is personally my biggest gripe against him. It is also my biggest gripe against Carroll. He is accentuating these traits in Russ's play. Personally I believe that Pete should stay the hell away from the offense, I'm not convinced that he knows what he is doing on this side of the ball.

We must remember, these aren't just random analyst either

 

[Steve2222]

lol at that Rams fan who would take Wentz over Wilson. Guy plays in a system that makes Nick Foles look All Pro. Wilson looks bad against the Rams? Derr that’s what happens when you put the worst OL up against the best DL genius.

Better hope you guys win the Super Bowl before Donald gets paid QB money and Average Goff sets the QB market.

Seems that if you have a system that your back up can play in and win a Super Bowl you can't knock it. Foles may not be an All Pro but he wasn't Spurgeon Wynn either.

Nick Foles was coaching high school football or something around this time last year all but given up on playing football. He might not be Spurgeon Wynn, but he’s not an upper echelon QB either. Nice hyperbole there.

Who said I was knocking their system? I think their system is great. It makes below average QBs like Foles look All Pro.

 

[Steve2222]

And no, in the year 2018, Wilson is the second best QB in the league.

 

[brimsalabim]

So... leads his team in passing, rushing, is his own OL. Does he need to also receive his own passes and kick field goals to get respect? Maybe the team will ask him to take Earls spot on defense too?

 

[SoulfishHawk]

My wife says some funny stuff at the games, my favorite last year was "Does he have to throw the ball to himself?"