Russell Wilson and the 3 year, $45.5 million baseline

[Anthony!]

All right! One more team that will now be too financially strapped to win it all.

Will or was? This is the same team paying DE Charles Johnson 20 million per.

:sarcasm_on: Yes because paying a franchise QB what they are worth guarantees they are financially strapped. LOL :sarcasm_off:

 

[aawolf]

Rumors 5 years, 100 million. Guarantees unknown.

It's right in the ball park and likely will come down to the guarantees.

Wow. I posted that this is the number to shoot for in the RW negotiations. We'll see if the Seahawks value RW as much as the Panthers value Cam.

 

[Tical21]

All right! One more team that will now be too financially strapped to win it all.

Will or was? This is the same team paying DE Charles Johnson 20 million per.

Yes because paying a franchise QB what they are worth guarantees they are financially strapped. LOL

Yay! You're starting to get it!! Took ya a while, youngster.

 

[Anthony!]

Rumors 5 years, 100 million. Guarantees unknown.

It's right in the ball park and likely will come down to the guarantees.

Wow. I posted that this is the number to shoot for in the RW negotiations. We'll see if the Seahawks value RW as much as the Panthers value Cam.

They sure as heck should.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Rumors 5 years, 100 million. Guarantees unknown.

It's right in the ball park and likely will come down to the guarantees.

Wow. I posted that this is the number to shoot for in the RW negotiations. We'll see if the Seahawks value RW as much as the Panthers value Cam.

They sure as heck should.

It's no longer a matter of whether they should... it's a matter of "can they." Yet to be seen if they have the resources available under the cap to give what RW wants. Is he worth a lot? Oh yeah. He just may think he's worth more than we have to give. The money isn't limitless, unlike the debt people in today's world can dig themselves under with.

 

[Anthony!]

Rumors 5 years, 100 million. Guarantees unknown.

It's right in the ball park and likely will come down to the guarantees.

Wow. I posted that this is the number to shoot for in the RW negotiations. We'll see if the Seahawks value RW as much as the Panthers value Cam.

They sure as heck should.

It's no longer a matter of whether they should... it's a matter of "can they." Yet to be seen if they have the resources available under the cap to give what RW wants. Is he worth a lot? Oh yeah. He just may think he's worth more than we have to give. The money isn't limitless, unlike the debt people in today's world can dig themselves under with.

That would be their own fault if they cannot. The longer they wait the higher it goes. We really do not know what Wilson wants, but we know what he should get keeps going up.

The thing we might want to come to terms with is they do not feel Wilson is as important as he is. Maybe like a few here they feel they can get any avg QB and still get to and win a SB. In the end this just might be Wilson last year and then we will find out if they and the few are right or if we are screwed.

 

[hawknation2015]

That would be their own fault if they cannot. The longer they wait the higher it goes. We really do not know what Wilson wants, but we know what he should get keeps going up.

The thing we might want to come to terms with is they do not feel Wilson is as important as he is. Maybe like a few here they feel they can get any avg QB and still get to and win a SB. In the end this just might be Wilson last year and then we will find out if they and the few are right or if we are screwed.

Nope. If he and his agent can't agree to a fair extension, meaning excluding this final year and tacking on the extension, then they will simply franchise him next year and negotiate from there.

 

[Anthony!]

That would be their own fault if they cannot. The longer they wait the higher it goes. We really do not know what Wilson wants, but we know what he should get keeps going up.

The thing we might want to come to terms with is they do not feel Wilson is as important as he is. Maybe like a few here they feel they can get any avg QB and still get to and win a SB. In the end this just might be Wilson last year and then we will find out if they and the few are right or if we are screwed.

Nope. If he and his agent can't agree to a fair extension, meaning excluding this final year and tacking on the extension, then they will simply franchise him next year and negotiate from there.

yeah sure we can afford a 20+ mil cap hit next year. Right now top 5 qb is about 20 mil. If Luck signs before next year it will go higher. Not so easy as you think, especially with Wager also due. Add tot hat the FO has said it doe snot like to tag players. So it is far from the given some make it out to be.

 

[Ad Hawk]

The thing we might want to come to terms with is they do not feel Wilson is as important as he is. Maybe like a few here they feel they can get any avg QB and still get to and win a SB. In the end this just might be Wilson last year and then we will find out if they and the few are right or if we are screwed.

As important as he is to you, you mean.

The FO is the final arbiter of how valuable he is and will hand out what they think he's worth. This is a contract negotiation. The FO can be blamed for not staying ($ plug in any large number $) under cap to make room for RW if the amount he asks is more than they budgeted. If he asked $30mil/year, perhaps some team out there may do it. I doubt we would, even if you'd spend the money on him.

 

[Anthony!]

The thing we might want to come to terms with is they do not feel Wilson is as important as he is. Maybe like a few here they feel they can get any avg QB and still get to and win a SB. In the end this just might be Wilson last year and then we will find out if they and the few are right or if we are screwed.

As important as he is to you, you mean.

The FO is the final arbiter of how valuable he is and will hand out what they think he's worth. This is a contract negotiation. The FO can be blamed for not staying ($ plug in any large number $) under cap to make room for RW if the amount he asks is more than they budgeted. If he asked $30mil/year, perhaps some team out there may do it. I doubt we would, even if you'd spend the money on him.

One I would not spend 30 mil a year on any player although in a few years that will probably be cheap. The reality is we once again do not know what he is asking for. The reality is once again if the FO makes an offer that is not in keeping with the going rate ie dollars, guarantees, years then they screwed up or do not value him. Either way we will find out soon enough, and we will find out if they are right or not. If they are right we keep marching and all is good, if they are wrong we are no good again, they loose their jobs. pretty simple. The FO might offer him what they think he is worth to them, but that does not mean they are right, if they are as I said all will be good, if not you and others will whine because we are not winning and they will loose their jobs.

 

[Ad Hawk]

[One I would not spend 30 mil a year on any player although in a few years that will probably be cheap. The reality is we once again do not know what he is asking for. The reality is once again if the FO makes an offer that is not in keeping with the going rate ie dollars, guarantees, years then they screwed up or do not value him. Either way we will find out soon enough, and we will find out if they are right or not. If they are right we keep marching and all is good, if they are wrong we are no good again, they loose their jobs. pretty simple. The FO might offer him what they think he is worth to them, but that does not mean they are right, if they are as I said all will be good, if not you and others will whine because we are not winning and they will loose their jobs.

You obviously have no idea who I am. I don't whine about anything, including losing. (I suppose you're welcome to define it how you wish, though, then make accusations, so you appear correct). It's just a game to me, albeit one I enjoy staying abreast of.

So you don't think RW is worth $30m/year? Even if that's what he were asking? I mean, I agree with you. But then you must have an actual number in mind. Ok, so what would you offer him if you were GM? Really, I'd love to know. What is he worth to you?

If RW walks because the Hawks can't or won't pay what he's asking, you must be willing to concede that it just may be the case that RW's agent is asking for an unreasonable amount. If that's the case, then it wouldn't be Schneider's fault for not bowing; it's the better part of wisdom.

And if he walks for the above reason, I'll not be any less a fan, even if the Hawks aren't in playoff/SB contention every year. My fandom isn't predicated on RW being here, either, though i love what he brings to the team. Do I enjoy winning? You bet, and so does the FO. They'll do everything they can to make that happen.

And I'm not one who believes that just any QB will work, as TJack and Flynn have shown they probably aren't/weren't the answer (though the team is different now than it was with either of them). What would we do without RW? I'm sure I don't know, but I'll still be fascinated with how the team solves that.

My higher-tier fandom isn't with RW, (though I wish him success wherever he is); it's with the team that currently includes him.

 

[Anthony!]

[One I would not spend 30 mil a year on any player although in a few years that will probably be cheap. The reality is we once again do not know what he is asking for. The reality is once again if the FO makes an offer that is not in keeping with the going rate ie dollars, guarantees, years then they screwed up or do not value him. Either way we will find out soon enough, and we will find out if they are right or not. If they are right we keep marching and all is good, if they are wrong we are no good again, they loose their jobs. pretty simple. The FO might offer him what they think he is worth to them, but that does not mean they are right, if they are as I said all will be good, if not you and others will whine because we are not winning and they will loose their jobs.

You obviously have no idea who I am. I don't whine about anything, including losing. (I suppose you're welcome to define it how you wish, though, then make accusations, so you appear correct). It's just a game to me, albeit one I enjoy staying abreast of.

So you don't think RW is worth $30m/year? Even if that's what he were asking? I mean, I agree with you. But then you must have an actual number in mind. Ok, so what would you offer him if you were GM? Really, I'd love to know. What is he worth to you?

If RW walks because the Hawks can't or won't pay what he's asking, you must be willing to concede that it just may be the case that RW's agent is asking for an unreasonable amount. If that's the case, then it wouldn't be Schneider's fault for not bowing; it's the better part of wisdom.

And if he walks for the above reason, I'll not be any less a fan, even if the Hawks aren't in playoff/SB contention every year. My fandom isn't predicated on RW being here, either, though i love what he brings to the team. Do I enjoy winning? You bet, and so does the FO. They'll do everything they can to make that happen.

And I'm not one who believes that just any QB will work, as TJack and Flynn have shown they probably aren't/weren't the answer (though the team is different now than it was with either of them). What would we do without RW? I'm sure I don't know, but I'll still be fascinated with how the team solves that.

My higher-tier fandom isn't with RW, (though I wish him success wherever he is); it's with the team that currently includes him.

I find it interesting that you always speak about if Wilson wants to much, or if Wilsons agent wants this or that. Never about if the FO low balls Wilson, or screws around for want f 1 year. As to what I would offer as of now I would say about 20-21 mil a year 5+ years, 60 mil guaranteed, and 20+ signing bonus. That is about right based on what others are getting, but again that is not knowing what Kams offer is.

 

[Ad Hawk]

I find it interesting that you always speak about if Wilson wants to much, or if Wilsons agent wants this or that. Never about if the FO low balls Wilson, or screws around for want f 1 year. As to what I would offer as of now I would say about 20-21 mil a year 5+ years, 60 mil guaranteed, and 20+ signing bonus. That is about right based on what others are getting, but again that is not knowing what Kams offer is.

Always? Be careful with the superlatives. They're usually fallacies, and it is a fallacy where my posts are concerned.

This is a negotiation. Two sides are involved. The idea of "lowballing" Wilson or "screwing around" are subjective enough terms that should RW walk, you'll just argue the FO's incompetence. Since we may never know the actual numbers even after the fact, such accusations are meaningless.

They want to win more than you do. As you correctly stated, their jobs depend on making the right choice while your livelihood does not. They'll consult wise financial advisers, JS will attempt to work with all the numbers and players, and I guarantee you they take it seriously; there won't be any "screwing around" as you say.

The numbers you propose don't sound unreasonable for his services. The reality is, however, it doesn't appear we have that much cap space, with the $20m bonus spread out evenly over 5 years. So how do you propose that be fixed? "Just pay him" isn't an option, regardless of his worth, in that case.

And if a 5th year is the sticking point, then perhaps PC and JS have a play that goes beyond cap numbers. We may never know. I can live with the "not knowing" without needing to throw stones.

 

[Anthony!]

I find it interesting that you always speak about if Wilson wants to much, or if Wilsons agent wants this or that. Never about if the FO low balls Wilson, or screws around for want f 1 year. As to what I would offer as of now I would say about 20-21 mil a year 5+ years, 60 mil guaranteed, and 20+ signing bonus. That is about right based on what others are getting, but again that is not knowing what Kams offer is.

Always? Be careful with the superlatives. They're usually fallacies, and it is a fallacy where my posts are concerned.

This is a negotiation. Two sides are involved. The idea of "lowballing" Wilson or "screwing around" are subjective enough terms that should RW walk, you'll just argue the FO's incompetence. Since we may never know the actual numbers even after the fact, such accusations are meaningless.

They want to win more than you do. As you correctly stated, their jobs depend on making the right choice while your livelihood does not. They'll consult wise financial advisers, JS will attempt to work with all the numbers and players, and I guarantee you they take it seriously; there won't be any "screwing around" as you say.

The numbers you propose don't sound unreasonable for his services. The reality is, however, it doesn't appear we have that much cap space, with the $20m bonus spread out evenly over 5 years. So how do you propose that be fixed? "Just pay him" isn't an option, regardless of his worth, in that case.

And if a 5th year is the sticking point, then perhaps PC and JS have a play that goes beyond cap numbers. We may never know. I can live with the "not knowing" without needing to throw stones.

I am glad you can, the reality is we will know if Wilson leaves. We will know what is new team gives him, we will know how he performs and how we perform. So should he leave we will know and should he be signed it will not matter.

 

[Recon_Hawk]

Wilson is worth more than Cam, whatever that deal is/was worth. I'd easily pay it, too. That's my thoughts.

There will be some tough cuts to even things out, though. IMO, I don't think Wilson's game will dramatically help the team with an improved receiving corp and a emphasized pass blocking O-line as much as it hurts losing an elite run game and the cost effectiveness of a cheap run blocking Oline and cheap receivers - money that is much more valuable to an elite defense.

Once the team starts planning the salary cap around Wilson they get away with their winning formula. I don't foresee Pete wanting to do that, so as long as Wilson and his agent aren't making demands to build the team around him and Wilson doesn't mind not having the best receivers and Oline, I don't see how you cannot give him the asking market price.

 

[Seahawkfan80]

Wilson is worth more than Cam, whatever that deal is/was worth. I'd easily pay it, too. That's my thoughts.

There will be some tough cuts to even things out, though. IMO, I don't think Wilson's game will dramatically help the team with an improved receiving corp and a emphasized pass blocking O-line as much as it hurts losing an elite run game and the cost effectiveness of a cheap run blocking Oline and cheap receivers - money that is much more valuable to an elite defense.

Once the team starts planning the salary cap around Wilson they get away from their winning formula. I don't foresee Pete wanting to do that, so as long as Wilson and his agent aren't making demands to build the team around him and Wilson doesn't mind not having the best receivers and Oline, I don't see how you cannot give him the asking market price.

If I may interject...I think the proper term is from their winning formula. Fixed it for you if that was your intent. If not, I apologize. The term makes all the difference. Go Hawks. :mrgreen:

 

[AVL]

Of course Wilson is worth a lot more than Cam, but he's six inches shorter so lack potential.

If Wilson was 4 inches taller and had played identically the last three years, this thread and all like it would be laughable.

 

[LymonHawk]

Of course Wilson is worth a lot more than Cam, but he's six inches shorter so lack potential.

If Wilson was 4 inches taller and had played identically the last three years, this thread and all like it would be laughable.

Balls said the Queen!

 

[Anthony!]

Of course Wilson is worth a lot more than Cam, but he's six inches shorter so lack potential.

If Wilson was 4 inches taller and had played identically the last three years, this thread and all like it would be laughable.

You make a very good point, however even then there would be a select few who would not get it, and never will. Even if Wilson left and we were very very bad, they would say it is anything but the loss of Wilson. Those prejudices against Wilson are not just about Height. IN some cases it is them not wanting to be wring when they said Wilson would not be good, in some it is because they wanted someone else, for some it is they just like to argue and be difficult. They will always exist for Wilson, its just pathetic it is so prevalent even amongst Hawks fans.

 

[scutterhawk]

Before you give 20 million dollars a year to a quarterback that throws an interception to lose the Superbowl, look at Tom Brady's contract first. By the way, Brady has won four Superbowls...

Year---- Base Salary ---- Signing Bonus---- Cap Hit ---- Dead Cap
2015---- $8,000,000---- $6,000,000---- $14,000,000 -- $18,000,000
2016 --- $9,000,000 ----$6,000,000---- $15,000,000-- $12,000,000
2017--- $10,000,000 ---$6,000,000--- $16,000,000-- $6,000,000

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/new-england- ... tom-brady/

Sign up Wilson for 10-12 million dollars a year, if not next man up. The real strength of the Seahawks is the defense and Marshawn Lynch, not Russel Wilson. Wilson's fair value would be something more like Alex Smith's contract.

2014: $1 million
2015: $11.9 million
2016: $14.1 million
2017: $10.2 million (+ $2 million roster bonus)
2018: $14.5 million (+ $2 million roster bonus)

http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2014/9/2/ ... ity-chiefs

Compare Alex Smith's stats, than compare Russell Wilson's stats.. Virtually the same. Why over pay?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/playe ... backRating

Okay :roll: Which "Next Man Up" do you have in mind?
I hope that you're not implying that Alex Smith could also scramble for 800+Yards just like Wilson.
Not taking anything away from Lynch, but you are mistaken if you truly believe that Marshawn is the only one responsible for the success of the running game, it's Russell Wilsons additional Yards running that pushes the numbers over the top.
Wilson has unique capabilities, he's the TRUE dual threat, that RGIII was supposed to be, and Drafted as the #2 Quarterback taken in that same said Draft.
You have to be more than athletically gifted, and Wilson is the perfect fit for what PC wants from his ideal FRANCHISE Quarterback.
The notion that you can just plug in any ol' Quarterback, and get equal results is not only silly, it's totally ludicrous.
The Chiefs got what they paid for in Alex Smith.