Russell Wilson is Elite | I'm Putting the Nail in the Coffin

[Fade]

You want an interesting addendum to the Rogers road-woes statistics, go look at Drew Brees road-win % on PFF (click on "Splits" for this data), then compare that with Russ. Also, look at Russ's road vs. home passing statistics, and you'll see there isn't much difference in yards, completion, etc.

:2thumbs: Yep, good stuff.

The people that hyper criticize Russell Wilson, never truly poured over the numbers, and did a deep dive on these "elite" quarterbacks.

 

[hgwellz12]

You aren't allowed to do this, Fade! You just ruined a few lives!

Good shit!

 

[Seahawkfan80]

You aren't allowed to do this, Fade! You just ruined a few lives!

Good shit!

He just gave them a cure for what ails them. I just hope they can swallow that tiny little pill....it is the size of a vitamin d 3000.

 

[hgwellz12]

As an aside, can someone who KNOWS fantasy Football, please enlighten me on whether or not the advent of that particular.......activity has any bearing on how certain folk view Russ? Because I've never even attempted to make a Fantasy roster in my life and never plan to simply because it seems counter intuitive to my type of fandom (but thats a whole different subject that I'm sure has been discussed on here somewhere.)

But yeah FF players are 1 of the 3 types of people I usually believe RW detractors to be.

 

[truehawksfan]

Nice write up. And, as many have said, you’ve put together a rational, well thought, statical comparison of QBs everyone considers elite.

Take the Green Bay game, people will point to the missed TD pass to Doug in the first qtr, but completely ignore the go ahead TD pass to Dickson in the 4th Qtr.

I think Russ is up there in comeback wins, TD passes in the 4th when the pressure meter is way up, the stakes are the highest....

I’ll get your hammer....

 

[Seahawkfan80]

As an aside, can someone who KNOWS fantasy Football, please enlighten me on whether or not the advent of that particular.......activity has any bearing on how certain folk view Russ? Because I've never even attempted to make a Fantasy roster in my life and never plan to simply because it seems counter intuitive to my type of fandom (but thats a whole different subject that I'm sure has been discussed on here somewhere.)

But yeah FF players are 1 of the 3 types of people I usually believe RW detractors to be.

I did play for a few years many many years ago. Before the advent of RW.

In a run heavy team, the QB can not make a lot of points where a WCO offense passing juggernaut can get you TONS of points which will win you week after week. The 10 great quarterbacks will be drafted for their potential and their receivers as well. THat will make a lot of points for that person. OUr Defence was the Juggernaut for a lot of FF players as they gave no points to the defense for a long time. Now we are just average if that. In other words, we are not a threat to FF players.

One more thing on QB/Receivers....if you highlight one receiver, Tate or Johnson/Megatron, then your receiver and qb are a great team to have available. Depends on if you are playing the LOB tho as I alluded to. Playing our receivers would be lazy and will not get it done as we spread the ball around to as many receivers as we can. We are not stingy with a Number One WR ONLY. We are out to win the game with as few points as necessary.

Yes FF players are a detraction for the RW enthusiast....and for the win.

 

[Fade]

You aren't allowed to do this, Fade! You just ruined a few lives!

Good shit!

As an aside, can someone who KNOWS fantasy Football, please enlighten me on whether or not the advent of that particular.......activity has any bearing on how certain folk view Russ? Because I've never even attempted to make a Fantasy roster in my life and never plan to simply because it seems counter intuitive to my type of fandom (but thats a whole different subject that I'm sure has been discussed on here somewhere.)

But yeah FF players are 1 of the 3 types of people I usually believe RW detractors to be.

I am not a fantasy player either, but from what I have gleaned is he is very valuable because of his rushing yards to go along with the pass production. Russell Wilson led the league in total TDs & total yards last year (running + passing).

I think it is more delusion / out of touch. I had a dude trying to argue Wilson isn't elite because he doesn't put up a 130 passer rating consistently every quarter. That standard is impossible.

They have a distorted lens. They watch every Wilson snap under the microscope, and then only see the highlights of the other quarterbacks. And think they are informed.

The double standard ends now.

"Wilson holds the ball too long" So does Rodgers, "that's a body."

"Wilson needs to be better against the blitz" (A thread started a few weeks back) Whelp Brady is the worst in the league, and Wilson is #1, "that's a body."

"But but Wilson is asked to do less they are a running team" New England is 5th, LAR is 2nd, New Orleans is 6th in rush attempts. So I guess those teams don't have elite Quarterbacks either, "that's a body."

"Wilson misses throws the other elites don't" Brees just missed two easy throws against the Eagles and Aikman pointed it out. And watch Rodgers in the 2nd half on Thurs. night. He played bad for an entire half, and threw the ball in the dirt on 3rd and 2 at the feet of a wide open receiver, "that's a body".

Watch Vinny Paz - Blood on my Hands on youtube. If you like hardcore hip hop to get the "that's a body" reference.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Excellent Original post Fade!

I like how you let the numbers speak for themselves.
Thanks for doing the leg work. :2thumbs:

 

[Tical21]

Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone. Completion percentage and passer rating are always going to favor guys that are afraid to make mistakes and would rather hold the ball and take a sack than drive the ball into the teeth of a zone. Russ had a 123 passer rating against the Rams last week, while making crucial mistakes on important downs and failing to drive the ball down the field.

You have the all-22? Pick a game, any game, and only watch the plays that we play against zone defense, and tell me Russell Wilson is an elite quarterback. Don't worry, I'll wait. That pick-6 from three weeks ago...there isn't another QB on your list that makes that throw. That was QB-101 stuff.

He's a fantastic weapon. He's great at not making mistakes. He's an incredibly accurate passer and is very resilient. You can win with him. He can do things nobody else can do, but unfortunately can't do some things that everybody can. Higher level quarterbacking from a mental point of view, he just isn't there, not even close.

 

[Palmegranite]

Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone. Completion percentage and passer rating are always going to favor guys that are afraid to make mistakes and would rather hold the ball and take a sack than drive the ball into the teeth of a zone. .

This week's game was a prime example of where the OP is dead on with his analysis.
But it of course has nothing to do with being "afraid", which is such a grade 8 word that describes none of the QBs on this list. Aaron Rodgers would rather hold on to the ball and play hero-ball at the risk of losing the game. 5 sacks says so.

And the ball never stuck on Russell Wilson's hand during a critical 4th quarter down.

 

[Tical21]

Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone. Completion percentage and passer rating are always going to favor guys that are afraid to make mistakes and would rather hold the ball and take a sack than drive the ball into the teeth of a zone. .

This week's game was a prime example of where the OP is dead on with his analysis.
But it of course has nothing to do with being "afraid", which is such a grade 8 word that describes none of the QBs on this list. Aaron Rodgers would rather hold on to the ball and play hero-ball at the risk of losing the game. 5 sacks says so.

And the ball never stuck on Russell Wilson's hand during a critical 4th quarter down.

FWIW I think the total package that is Aaron Rodgers is overrated as well.

 

[Fade]

Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone. Completion percentage and passer rating are always going to favor guys that are afraid to make mistakes and would rather hold the ball and take a sack than drive the ball into the teeth of a zone. Russ had a 123 passer rating against the Rams last week, while making crucial mistakes on important downs and failing to drive the ball down the field.

You have the all-22? Pick a game, any game, and only watch the plays that we play against zone defense, and tell me Russell Wilson is an elite quarterback. Don't worry, I'll wait.

He's a fantastic weapon. He's great at not making mistakes. He's an incredibly accurate passer and is very resilient. You can win with him. But higher level quarterbacking from a mental point of view, he just isn't there, not even close.

What are Wilson's passing & rushing stats against zone coverage from 2015-2018?

What are the other "elite" guys passing & rushing stats against zone coverage from 2015-2018?

You need to bring this information forward to counter the information I brought forward. I am not interested in a small cherry picked sample size from 1 guy w/no context of how the other guys are performing. I want the numbers from 2015-2018 from all of the QBs mentioned to back up your claim.

Otherwise all the snaps they have taken (The entire picture) since 2015 will have to suffice.

Also to despite your critique, which I agree with to a certain extent, he ultimately produces like them. Over a 50-ish game stretch.

I am not cherry picking 10 games here. I am even factoring in his worst statistical season (injured) 2016.

Especially when he manages to keep up production wise behind Cable O-Lines. When statistically it is clear, better O-Line play = better QB production.

Would you keep those Cable O-Lines over what the Packers, Patriots, and Saints have had 2015-2018?

Who would you rank Bevell over from the other Elite QB's play callers, and offensive staffs? A guy no would touch with a 10 foot pole this off-season with many openings, yet couldn't get a job.

Given the circumstances it is pretty impressive to the say the least.

How does he consistently out play QBs in the 4th qtr when the game is on the line, if he is flawed? Guys like that get exposed, their luck runs out eventually.

Yet here Wilson is all these years later still doing it.

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

Oh, hogwash. Huge difference between Russ and just about all the other guys on that list...they push the ball into the zone. Completion percentage and passer rating are always going to favor guys that are afraid to make mistakes and would rather hold the ball and take a sack than drive the ball into the teeth of a zone. Russ had a 123 passer rating against the Rams last week, while making crucial mistakes on important downs and failing to drive the ball down the field.

You have the all-22? Pick a game, any game, and only watch the plays that we play against zone defense, and tell me Russell Wilson is an elite quarterback. Don't worry, I'll wait.

He's a fantastic weapon. He's great at not making mistakes. He's an incredibly accurate passer and is very resilient. You can win with him. But higher level quarterbacking from a mental point of view, he just isn't there, not even close.

What are Wilson's passing & rushing stats against zone coverage from 2015-2018?

What are the other "elite" guys passing & rushing stats against zone coverage from 2015-2018?

You need to bring this information forward to counter the information I brought forward. I am not interested in a small cherry picked sample size from 1 guy w/no context of how the other guys are performing. I want the numbers from 2015-2018 from all of the QBs mentioned to back up your claim.

Otherwise all the snaps they have taken (The entire picture) since 2015 will have to suffice.

Also to despite your critique, which I agree with to a certain extent, he ultimately produces like them. Over a 50-ish game stretch.

I am not cherry picking 10 games here. I am even factoring in his worst statistical season (injured) 2016.

Especially when he manages to keep up production wise behind Cable O-Lines. When statistically it is clear, better O-Line play = better QB production.

Would you keep those Cable O-Lines over what the Packers, Patriots, and Saints have had 2015-2018?

Who would you rank Bevell over from the other Elite QB's play callers, and offensive staffs? A guy no would touch with a 10 foot pole this off-season with many openings, yet couldn't get a job.

Given the circumstances it is pretty impressive to the say the least.

How does he consistently out play QBs in the 4th qtr when the game is on the line, if he is flawed? Guys like that get exposed, their luck runs out eventually.

Yet here Wilson is all these years later still doing it.

And did you mention he's Durable? The Cal Ripken Jr. of football.

 

[Tical21]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

 

[SeaHawk80]

Although I miss Kearlry.. Fade you have taken his spot as my Favorite Poster. Well done Sir.. Wilson is ELITE and the best QB for the Seahawks ever.. All the haters are delusional, or just Idiots.. Thanks man

 

[Sox-n-Hawks]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

Second highest career passer rating ALL TIME. Not baffling at all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Ad Hawk]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

If it was this simple, then teams would already have figured it out and simply run zones that could beat him. His completion percentages should drop, his Int/Sack rates should climb. Why isn't this the case?

 

[semiahmoo]

The only stat that really matters:

Super Bowl Wins:

Tom Brady = 5 (going for #6?)

Russell Wilson = 1

Now here is where I give Wilson a big break. He's had to play behind crap lines for way too long w/o the benefit of a legit run game and a coach who doesn't put up with repeated distractions from "look at me" players, etc.

That has changed this season and I don't care what this season's stats are vs the last couple - he's a better QB overall because of it. He still brain farts out there a bit too much but as he keeps settling into this new OC program his upside potential is huge which, given his level of play already, could be really fun to watch.

The big question, perhaps the biggest for the team (bigger than if Pete stays or goes?) is if that upside happens in Seattle or somewhere else and for how much $$$$$$.

I'll say this - the front office has put together a team with potential and just a few more pieces involved this next off season and we could be back to dominating opponents again.

We may or may not make the playoffs, but this season has been many times more enjoyable to watch - including Wilson's play/game management/whatever people want to call it.

 

[Tical21]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

If it was this simple, then teams would already have figured it out and simply run zones that could beat him. His completion percentages should drop, his Int/Sack rates should climb. Why isn't this the case?

It has been. In 2016 and 2017, as we didn't have a run game and teams have been able to sit in zone, his completion percentage and rating went down mightily, and his negative plays have gone up significantly. As we have run the ball dominantly this year, coverages have simplified, and he's taking advantage again.

THe best way to get a team out of zone is to run it up their tailpipe. They have to start running more man, calling run blitzes and sacrifice creativity on the back end. Now...why the Packers went to man coverage in at the goal line on 3rd and 5 and let Doug do his thing, I'll never understand. But you know Russ licked his chops as soon as he saw it.

 

[Tical21]

I'll fully admit that he produces like them. I can't find you the numbers of man vs zone, because they don't exist. I did analysis of 4 games from 2015 and 6 games from 2017 in a similar debate, and found that the percentage of the time that we actually saw zone was wayyy different than the PFF statisticians said that we saw zone. So I would have to watch 4 seasons myself and chart every play to get you that analysis.

You know elite QB play when you see it. We've seen plenty of elite QB's over the years. Against zone, elite QB's can often make it look easy. They hit their back foot, ball comes out, quite often. Do we ever really see that? How many times in Russ' career has a commentator noticed that he manipulates a defender with his eyes, or that he has set defenders up? He can do it against man-1, but that's really about it. If you're not going to go back and look at the all-22, while you're watching the next game, try to figure out what coverage the other team is in pre-snap. IF you think they're in zone, watch what happens.

He might be an elite player, I'm not saying there are many guys I'd rather have, but to make a claim that he is an elite passer is a little baffling.

Second highest career passer rating ALL TIME. Not baffling at all.


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Here we go again with passer rating.