Russell Wilson sets deadline for new contract

[John63]

The only way a Russ trade could work for us is to get the # 1 overall pick and select Kyler Murray. I don't see how that happens. And I don't see anyone else playing QB for us besides Russ or Murray. Not if we want to go to the playoffs, that is.

Why do you say this?

I don't think Pete's offensive philosophy is beholden to a Russell Wilson style QB. In fact, I think Pete's offensive philosophy has shown that he can have different style of QB's..............even going back to USC with having both drop back QB's (Palmer) and allusive scrambling type QB's (Sanchez).

If Russell gets traded, it's 100% because Pete and John came to the conclusion that they just don't want to hamstring their cap by forking over 35-40M per year to Russell, and they think they can build another SB contender without him.

It won't be because they have to have Murray or another Wilson type QB.

Dotn agree

Okay in Coleg ehe coudl throw any type of QB out there. That si fine when you consider most college terams only have 3=5 NFL caliber player son it.

This is the NFL, and PCs system requires a QB who is mobile, can play behind a bad pass blocking oline, can throw a great long ball, can throw on the run, can make stuff up if need be, oh and can be very very productive with limited attempts while not throwing a lot of picks.

There are not many QBs who fit all that, and if PC thought he could get away with less he would have already.

 

[John63]

Pre-Wilson the Seahawks were a 7 win team. That was with Pete Carroll, John Schneider, Marshawn, Doug Baldwin, and a great defense. With Russ they became a 10+ win team instantly and a Superbowl contender. That is evidence enough for me on what impact Russ has on this team.

The Seahawks turned over nearly 100% of their roster with draft picks and risks from other teams and won 7 games. I think Russ is great, but let's not start making stuff up.

Not really

People give Baker Mayfield credit even though Dorsey came and flipped the roster. They give Mahomes credit when under Reid the Chiefs have been very successful and constantly made the playoffs

A great defense needs an offense that compliments it. Complimentary football is a real thing. There have been several number 1 defenses over the years, and they didn’t go far because they didn’t have the Quarterback

It’s completely logical to argue that yes, indeed Pete did not have success pre-Wilson. And that Wilson, a 3rd round rookie played so well he basically stole the job. Beat the Patriots and Belicheck in a clutch thriller. Russell Wilson as a rookie was amazing, especially when you add in his rushing yards. Lynch also had his best years with Wilson

I'm confused. You kind of contradict yourself. The first statement says that Dorsey should get the credit, not the QB.. Then you go on to say that the QB is the most important..

My only point was that the Seahawks won 7 games with a roster with nearly 100% turn over when they got in.. If you don't think this roster with the way they run the ball couldn't win 6-8 games without Wilson, then you're crazy.

well we won 10 last year all the experts say Wilson like all Elite QBs can give you 4-5 wins over an Avg qb so that would mean 5-6 wins, If your happy with that great we can be sub 500. Me I like winning and no one has done that more than Wilson in his first 7 years with 6 trips to the post season were once your in anything can happen

 

[Sgt. Largent]

The only way a Russ trade could work for us is to get the # 1 overall pick and select Kyler Murray. I don't see how that happens. And I don't see anyone else playing QB for us besides Russ or Murray. Not if we want to go to the playoffs, that is.

Why do you say this?

I don't think Pete's offensive philosophy is beholden to a Russell Wilson style QB. In fact, I think Pete's offensive philosophy has shown that he can have different style of QB's..............even going back to USC with having both drop back QB's (Palmer) and allusive scrambling type QB's (Sanchez).

If Russell gets traded, it's 100% because Pete and John came to the conclusion that they just don't want to hamstring their cap by forking over 35-40M per year to Russell, and they think they can build another SB contender without him.

It won't be because they have to have Murray or another Wilson type QB.

Dotn agree

Okay in Coleg ehe coudl throw any type of QB out there. That si fine when you consider most college terams only have 3=5 NFL caliber player son it.

This is the NFL, and PCs system requires a QB who is mobile, can play behind a bad pass blocking oline, can throw a great long ball, can throw on the run, can make stuff up if need be, oh and can be very very productive with limited attempts while not throwing a lot of picks.

There are not many QBs who fit all that, and if PC thought he could get away with less he would have already.

Then why'd Pete sign a 6'7" stiff as our backup?

All Pete's offense requires is an accurate play action passer that can make plays in the 4th quarter if the game is tight..........he wants his run game and defense to do most of the work. Clutch, smart, great work ethic, accurate, playmaker. That's what Pete wants.

I'm sure Pete loves Russell's skillset as much as most of us do, but it doesn't mean THAT'S the only way he can run his offensive schemes.

In fact that's one of Pete's biggest assets as a coach, his ability to identify what a player does best, and put that player in the best situation to compete and succeed.

 

[John63]

Does that take into account the FACT that he holds onto it longer than everyone else? Wonder why he does that. Something to ponder, perhaps.

Hmm, so we all can see, that your "FACT", isn't at all a "FACT", nice try though :lol:

Yeah sorry but I don't recall any year where he held the ball longer than every other QB. In fact there were a few where he held less than most other Qbs.

Here is a FACT there has never been a year where he was not top 10 or higher in hit, hurried, sacked or pressured and never a year where he was not top 8 in getting hit, hurried, sacked or pressures in under 2.5 seconds. Also, never a year where he had an oline ranked higher than 20th in pass blocking

 

[John63]

The only way a Russ trade could work for us is to get the # 1 overall pick and select Kyler Murray. I don't see how that happens. And I don't see anyone else playing QB for us besides Russ or Murray. Not if we want to go to the playoffs, that is.

Why do you say this?

I don't think Pete's offensive philosophy is beholden to a Russell Wilson style QB. In fact, I think Pete's offensive philosophy has shown that he can have different style of QB's..............even going back to USC with having both drop back QB's (Palmer) and allusive scrambling type QB's (Sanchez).

If Russell gets traded, it's 100% because Pete and John came to the conclusion that they just don't want to hamstring their cap by forking over 35-40M per year to Russell, and they think they can build another SB contender without him.

It won't be because they have to have Murray or another Wilson type QB.

Dotn agree

Okay in Coleg ehe coudl throw any type of QB out there. That si fine when you consider most college terams only have 3=5 NFL caliber player son it.

This is the NFL, and PCs system requires a QB who is mobile, can play behind a bad pass blocking oline, can throw a great long ball, can throw on the run, can make stuff up if need be, oh and can be very very productive with limited attempts while not throwing a lot of picks.

There are not many QBs who fit all that, and if PC thought he could get away with less he would have already.

Then why'd Pete sign a 6'7" stiff as our backup?

All Pete's offense requires is an accurate play action passer that can make plays in the 4th quarter if the game is tight..........he wants his run game and defense to do most of the work. Clutch, smart, great work ethic, accurate, playmaker. That's what Pete wants.

I'm sure Pete loves Russell's skillset as much as most of us do, but it doesn't mean THAT'S the only way he can run his offensive schemes.

In fact that's one of Pete's biggest assets as a coach, his ability to identify what a player does best, and put that player in the best situation to compete and succeed.

Well for one he has not made the team, and for 2 he needed a back up and did not want to spend a lot. As to the rest of your asse4sment well until he shows on offense he can change his scheme to suite his play we will never know. I do know he waited to long in Dallas to start throwing the ball. I do know 2 or 3 years ago when we were throwing all over the place and got to the playoffs, he went right back to ground and pound, and we lost. So on offense it remains to be seen how fluid he can be.

Until PC proves eh can run his system with another type of QB in the NFL it is a gamble. You good with that great if your right we should make the playoffs no problem, if your wrong we will be picking top 10 for a while. If we keep Wilson we make the playoffs 86% of the time were once in anything can happen.

 

[drrew]

[tweet]https://twitter.com/DangeRussWilson/status/1116806148902887424[/tweet]

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Someone turning this into Russ is Satan, only cares about money and is selfish in 3....2.....1...…

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Well for one he has not made the team, and for 2 he needed a back up and did not want to spend a lot. As to the rest of your asse4sment well until he shows on offense he can change his scheme to suite his play we will never know. I do know he waited to long in Dallas to start throwing the ball. I do know 2 or 3 years ago when we were throwing all over the place and got to the playoffs, he went right back to ground and pound, and we lost. So on offense it remains to be seen how fluid he can be.

Until PC proves eh can run his system with another type of QB in the NFL it is a gamble. You good with that great if your right we should make the playoffs no problem, if your wrong we will be picking top 10 for a while. If we keep Wilson we make the playoffs 86% of the time were once in anything can happen.

So 30 years of success at all levels of football with every type of QB there is isn't enough proof for you? LOL.

btw, I'm not advocating trading Russell. I hope we keep him. I'm just stating that I think Pete can win with a more traditional dropback passer, and that us drafting a Murray type of QB wouldn't affect in the least John and Pete's decision to trade Russell, should they arrive at that conclusion.

Pete had Matt Hasselbeck, Pete traded for Matt Flynn.............he's obviously comfortable with a less mobile more traditional QB.

 

[John63]

Well for one he has not made the team, and for 2 he needed a back up and did not want to spend a lot. As to the rest of your asse4sment well until he shows on offense he can change his scheme to suite his play we will never know. I do know he waited to long in Dallas to start throwing the ball. I do know 2 or 3 years ago when we were throwing all over the place and got to the playoffs, he went right back to ground and pound, and we lost. So on offense it remains to be seen how fluid he can be.

Until PC proves eh can run his system with another type of QB in the NFL it is a gamble. You good with that great if your right we should make the playoffs no problem, if your wrong we will be picking top 10 for a while. If we keep Wilson we make the playoffs 86% of the time were once in anything can happen.

So 30 years of success at all levels of football with every type of QB there is isn't enough proof for you? LOL.

btw, I'm not advocating trading Russell. I hope we keep him. I'm just stating that I think Pete can win with a more traditional dropback passer, and that us drafting a Murray type of QB wouldn't affect in the least John and Pete's decision to trade Russell, should they arrive at that conclusion.

Pete had Matt Hasselbeck, Pete traded for Matt Flynn.............he's obviously comfortable with a less mobile more traditional QB.

ahh what success has ne had in the NFL other than with WIlson? As to Hass he was already here, he inherited him, as to Flynn how did that work out? It didn't. So once again he needs to show running his system that he can do it with a QB That doesn't do all the things Wilson does that make us go. So far he has not. There is a reason he left the NFL and went back to College. I mean 33-31 prior to the Hawks is not exactly something wroth shouting about, and that was during the time when his system would have been at its best. SO like I said till he shows he can, I would rather not take chances on a lot of Ifs when we know with Wilson we are a perennial playoff team.

 

[knownone]

Exactly.
Going by cap hit tells little to nothing. It is often a skewed number that absolutely does not represent what the player actually cost the team.

at both you & knownone.

Russell Wilson made more money, but counted less against the cap.

Cap hit is all that matters when it comes to cap space to build the team around him.

The argument by some around here has been RW's big cap hits are just too much to build a team around him. He needs to take less, and be like Brady.

But the funny thing is he has! (avg) over 5 years.

2015-2019. FACT.

The numbers don't lie.

A new argument must be presented. Because this one is dead.

The argument is not that Russell has not been a value from a cap perspective, the argument is that the perceived value of his previous contract has absolutely no baring on the long-term value of his next contract. As I explained, the value of Wilson's 2015 contract is dependent on his rookie contract. The APY of his previous contract extension is 22M spread that into his rookie deal that number goes down to 17.5M.

Now, the final year of Wilson's rookie contract paid him 1M whereas the final year of this contract pays him 25M. Does this make sense? If Russell get's a similar contract this time around relative to other elite QBs, Wilson will be nowhere close to the value he is now because you have no way of mitigating his initial cap hit.

That is the point you seem to be missing.

It looks like you are trying really hard to complicate things as much as you can to help you narrative.

Let's make it simple. As of now he counts less against our cap than Brady and 10 other QBs. Whatever we give him in his next contract after 2 years he will again count less against our cap than at least 5-10 others. All the while being able to provide more to our team and offense than those QBs do to theirs. And before you say how do I know let me help you.

Wilson is the only QB in the history of the NFL and only player to account for over 80% of his teams offensive yards and over 95% of his teams offensive TDs. Also, of all the Elite QBs he has done what he has done while playing behind the worse pass blocking oline of any of them and it is not close as I showed earlier. You can make a very very real and fact based argument he is more important to the Hawks than any other QB is to their team.

What is my narrative exactly? That I want to re-sign Russell?

What I am saying is not complicated. I'm explaining why Russell's recent contract is nowhere close to the value of Tom Brady's, and that his cap hit over the last 4 years has no transfer to his upcoming contract extension. I want people to have reasonable expectations for what our cap flexibility will be over the next couple of years, and it seems to me that people have this crazy assumption that the Seahawks will be able to manipulate the cap in such a way that Wilson's extension will have little impact the salary cap.

What people fail to realize is that Wilson's '15 extension has been top 5 in average until last offseason (he was 6th), and this offseason is the first season he'll be out of the top 10 (assuming he doesn't sign an extension). Keeping in mind he's within 3M APY of being top 5. So realistically, if Wilson does sign an extension this season his intrinsic contract value over the length of his deal relative to other elite QBs will only be 1 year out of 4. His cap hit has been a bargain because of his rookie deal. His contract has never been a bargain.

If you want to look at a comparable situation look at Aaron Rodgers contract extension in 2013. Rodgers was the highest paid QB in the league for 4 straight years. He was top 5 in his 5th season, and he signed his extension in his 6th season that again put him at the top of the league in pay. Cap hits can be manipulated, but over the course of his deal he took up more cap space than any other player in the league. The same will be true of Russell and his new deal.

 

[Spin Doctor]

The only way a Russ trade could work for us is to get the # 1 overall pick and select Kyler Murray. I don't see how that happens. And I don't see anyone else playing QB for us besides Russ or Murray. Not if we want to go to the playoffs, that is.

Why do you say this?

I don't think Pete's offensive philosophy is beholden to a Russell Wilson style QB. In fact, I think Pete's offensive philosophy has shown that he can have different style of QB's..............even going back to USC with having both drop back QB's (Palmer) and allusive scrambling type QB's (Sanchez).

If Russell gets traded, it's 100% because Pete and John came to the conclusion that they just don't want to hamstring their cap by forking over 35-40M per year to Russell, and they think they can build another SB contender without him.

It won't be because they have to have Murray or another Wilson type QB.

Dotn agree

Okay in Coleg ehe coudl throw any type of QB out there. That si fine when you consider most college terams only have 3=5 NFL caliber player son it.

This is the NFL, and PCs system requires a QB who is mobile, can play behind a bad pass blocking oline, can throw a great long ball, can throw on the run, can make stuff up if need be, oh and can be very very productive with limited attempts while not throwing a lot of picks.

There are not many QBs who fit all that, and if PC thought he could get away with less he would have already.

Then why'd Pete sign a 6'7" stiff as our backup?

All Pete's offense requires is an accurate play action passer that can make plays in the 4th quarter if the game is tight..........he wants his run game and defense to do most of the work. Clutch, smart, great work ethic, accurate, playmaker. That's what Pete wants.

I'm sure Pete loves Russell's skillset as much as most of us do, but it doesn't mean THAT'S the only way he can run his offensive schemes.

In fact that's one of Pete's biggest assets as a coach, his ability to identify what a player does best, and put that player in the best situation to compete and succeed.

Not really his strength on offense.

 

[John63]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...anger-that-few-teams-are-lucky-enough-to-find

Mic drop, game over!

 

[chris98251]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...anger-that-few-teams-are-lucky-enough-to-find

Mic drop, game over!

Ok so now we ask for 4 firsts and 2 second round picks.

 

[John63]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...anger-that-few-teams-are-lucky-enough-to-find

Mic drop, game over!

Ok so now we ask for 4 firsts and 2 second round picks.

Yeah and the hope they buck the trend they have over the last 3-4 years and hit on most of them, and we still might not be in the hunt.

 

[Palmegranite]

Oh look, it says here in that link that they

debunk the results of the eye tests that have been completed with the help of blurred vision

 

[John63]

Oh look, it says here in that link that they

debunk the results of the eye tests that have been completed with the help of blurred vision

Not sure of your point, what they are saying is in 2012 Wilson did not meet the eye test due to height. However the facts and stats showed that was wrong

 

[toffee]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/ne...anger-that-few-teams-are-lucky-enough-to-find

Mic drop, game over!

One Richard Sherman begs to differ, him and some guys on dot net, Wilson's a very good game manager that happened to be too short.

 

[Seahawks4life]

Does Russell want to stay a Seahawk?
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/14/does-russell-wilson-want-to-stay-with-the-seahawks/

Tyrann Mathieu says Russ wants New York
https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/04/14/tyrann-mathieu-russell-wilson-wants-new-york/

Florio is not the best by any means but interesting takes.

 

[James in PA]

So, if Russ gets traded to another team, will he still end every press conference and interview with, “Go Hawks!” ??


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[Cyrus12]

So, if Russ gets traded to another team, will he still end every press conference and interview with, “Go Hawks!” ??


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Go Giants!