Seahawks: Money vs. Legacy

[Marvin49]

That's the thing I'm looking at.....Earl Thomas made some good money on his rookie deal, and so did Okung. They came in before the bargain basement rookie deals.

I think Wilson is the one guy that would take a bit less money, ie: not maximizing the deal. Make no mistake, he's not going to come cheap. But I definately don't think he's going to pull a Flacco. He knows if he does that, he's looking at throwing to no name chumps for a good portion of his career (outside of Harvin) and having no name chumps blocking for him. He also looks up to guys like Brady, who just took a very team friendly deal to keep some talent around him.

I see Sherman as being gone already. He desperately craves the recognition of being the best CB out there, and I think that comes with the contract. He's going to see what Revis got and top it, if nothing else for competition's sake. No way are we going to pay that to a CB with this roster as it sits. We have too many guys we can plug in and make this defense work to be held hostage by one guy.

Overall the Hawks do a tremendous job of taking care of their guys, giving them respect, and making them feel needed. Sometimes that's all these guys are looking for.

I really can't see Wilson taking less than Market value, but I can see him taking a deal that is structured is such a way that it doesn't hurt them early in resigning young players and then might restructure again on the back end of the deal to make it more friendly.

Much like Brady. Brady got his money but the contract is cap friendly and I have a feeling Wilson will be looking to do the same.

My question to you is...what is Keapernick's mindset on this issue given he will be coming up next year right? Or maybe even this year?

This will be year 3 for Kaep so he's still under contract for another 2 years, but just like what I think will happen with Wilson, the 49ers will look to lock him up early (assuming of course he plays this year like he did last). He can't sign this year for the same reason you are safe with Wilson for another 2 years...the new CBA won't allow a renegotiation of that rookie deal till they complete 3 league years.

Kaep is a California kid, grew up a 49ers fan (and Packers), loves the situation and the coaches here, etc, etc...

...but my guess is just like everyone else he'd be looking for the $$$. He would do just as I said before with Wilson and sign a deal that is friendly to the 49ers cap, but he'll be looking for his money at some point in the deal.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

That's the thing I'm looking at.....Earl Thomas made some good money on his rookie deal, and so did Okung. They came in before the bargain basement rookie deals.

I think Wilson is the one guy that would take a bit less money, ie: not maximizing the deal. Make no mistake, he's not going to come cheap. But I definately don't think he's going to pull a Flacco. He knows if he does that, he's looking at throwing to no name chumps for a good portion of his career (outside of Harvin) and having no name chumps blocking for him. He also looks up to guys like Brady, who just took a very team friendly deal to keep some talent around him.

I see Sherman as being gone already. He desperately craves the recognition of being the best CB out there, and I think that comes with the contract. He's going to see what Revis got and top it, if nothing else for competition's sake. No way are we going to pay that to a CB with this roster as it sits. We have too many guys we can plug in and make this defense work to be held hostage by one guy.

Overall the Hawks do a tremendous job of taking care of their guys, giving them respect, and making them feel needed. Sometimes that's all these guys are looking for.

You may be right on Sherman. If he continues to play the way he has he'll be looking for HUGE $$$$.

Some team out there desperate for a player might be willing to go nuts on a contract, but my guess is Seattle won't, and shouldn't pay him that way. You have too many good players that need good contracts to splurge so much on one player who wants to set salary records.

Niners kinda ran into that with Goldson on a smaller scale.

Not completely convinced Sherman is like Revis in that way (all his self being tied to the size of his contract) when he has said quite the opposite concerning the LOB and he knows that if he wants that group together for the next 5-6 years he can't be demanding a max contract or something ridiculous like Revis. Never know though so I say worry about it when it's time to cross that bridge.

 

[Marvin49]

That's the thing I'm looking at.....Earl Thomas made some good money on his rookie deal, and so did Okung. They came in before the bargain basement rookie deals.

I think Wilson is the one guy that would take a bit less money, ie: not maximizing the deal. Make no mistake, he's not going to come cheap. But I definately don't think he's going to pull a Flacco. He knows if he does that, he's looking at throwing to no name chumps for a good portion of his career (outside of Harvin) and having no name chumps blocking for him. He also looks up to guys like Brady, who just took a very team friendly deal to keep some talent around him.

I see Sherman as being gone already. He desperately craves the recognition of being the best CB out there, and I think that comes with the contract. He's going to see what Revis got and top it, if nothing else for competition's sake. No way are we going to pay that to a CB with this roster as it sits. We have too many guys we can plug in and make this defense work to be held hostage by one guy.

Overall the Hawks do a tremendous job of taking care of their guys, giving them respect, and making them feel needed. Sometimes that's all these guys are looking for.

You may be right on Sherman. If he continues to play the way he has he'll be looking for HUGE $$$$.

Some team out there desperate for a player might be willing to go nuts on a contract, but my guess is Seattle won't, and shouldn't pay him that way. You have too many good players that need good contracts to splurge so much on one player who wants to set salary records.

Niners kinda ran into that with Goldson on a smaller scale.

Not completely convinced Sherman is like Revis in that way (all his self being tied to the size of his contract) when he has said quite the opposite concerning the LOB and he knows that if he wants that group together for the next 5-6 years he can't be demanding a max contract or something ridiculous like Revis. Never know though so I say worry about it when it's time to cross that bridge.

You could be right....but it's a possibility. For sure tho there will be players who want inflated contracts and will feel let down by the team because the team won't offer what they want. They can't. They have to decide who they deem as expendable.

In SF, that was Goldson. Soon, it might be Gore...or maybe Crabtree. It'll happen in Seattle too.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I am sure it will because in the salary cap era you can't keep everybody the system just isn't built that way.

 

[RichNhansom]

Bennett said he canceled all other trips when Seattle called. Came here and signed an extremely team friendly contract and has been public about it and stating he wanted to be back here is Seattle and it sounds like he wants to stay here.

Winfield also signed for less than he could have got in Minnesota and his comments sound similar to Bennett.

We are seeing that Seattle is a desired destination and have seen players sign team friendly deals already. Will everyone do that? Probably not but if enough do then that will leave extra for those that might not.

Sherman is a tough one because I think he would have to turn down some enormous money to stay here. He is the type of player that teams throw the house at and as much as we love him I don't see us killing the cap to keep him here. I think they will make him a fair offer and if no team offers something ridiculous, I could see him staying here for similar but slightly less. He is a Stanford grad, he is not stupid and I'd be willing to bet he knows the benefit of playing a long career with a top shelf organization.

 

[seahawkswin1]

Sherman will probably end up playing under the franchise tag for a year or so. Then if they can't sign him to a long term contract then hopefully somebody else is ready to step up.

 

[Cartire]

Sherman will probably end up playing under the franchise tag for a year or so. Then if they can't sign him to a long term contract then hopefully somebody else is ready to step up.

One year franchise, yes. Second year, doubtful. Too expensive second year. Be better off with an extension at that point. Revis contract really makes that franchise pricy now.

 

[BlueTalon]

I for one believe in the hometown discount, because we have seen it up close. I think it was Chris Dielman from the Chargers that came up for a free agent visit in 2007. It rained the whole time he was here. He went back to San Diego, and re-signed with them for substantially less than what the Seahawks offered him.

The situation matters. Our young players don't have any first-hand experience of what it's like in other practice facilities with other organizations, but we have veteran free agents who share their stories.

It remains to be seen how many players will be willing to forego extra money to stay here, but I bet there will be at least a couple.

 

[QuahHawk]

I agree that seattle is now starting to get hometown discounts and players know this is a great place to be. I am worried about Sherm because I can't justify paying a CB more than 10-12 Mil and he could easily get that somewhere else. I'd rather keep Earl Thomas at $10m per and Bobby Wagner at $6m per than Sherman at $16m. I do agree that we should franchise Sherm for 1 year and when he leave we will get a 3rd round comp pick if we cannot trade him for more.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I agree that seattle is now starting to get hometown discounts and players know this is a great place to be. I am worried about Sherm because I can't justify paying a CB more than 10-12 Mil and he could easily get that somewhere else. I'd rather keep Earl Thomas at $10m per and Bobby Wagner at $6m per than Sherman at $16m. I do agree that we should franchise Sherm for 1 year and when he leave we will get a 3rd round comp pick if we cannot trade him for more.

Revis is an outlier and Tampa Bay is stupid. I do see Sherman getting 12-14 million if that's what he really wants but he has said he wants to try and keep the LOB together and he knows that would involve a hometown discount. Probably 10-12 million which is reasonable for his production.

 

[Shock2k]

Ok, I'm not saying it's the whole team... but it's relevant.

http://mynorthwest.com/292/2322405/Seah ... ts-a-raise

"Man, I'm here to play football," he said. "We already make more than an average guy. I'm happy and satisfied. I was up there in Canada, making $50,000. My deal is four times what I was making up there, so I'm satisfied." ... "I want the Legion of Boom to really mean something when it's all said and done with," Browner said. "Not just something we made up last year."
~Brandon Browner

 

[drdiags]

The players coming up for their second contract have seen how the business side of football operates. They saw how the team had to let Leon Washington go because they had an opportunity to bring in Harvin. They saw how other players were replaced when the hard business decision had to be made. Sure, the young core of defensive backs want to stay together to grow a legacy. But the team cannot handcuff themselves.

The team is full of mid-round players who will not get top dollar on the open market, but will be influenced by agents who want them to maximize their earning potential. Sherman is an edge case who will want to have a second contract written that would match a 1st round pick's second contract, IMO.

The team couldn't use the scenario laid out by the OP because of the fact the player's agent would be there. Since it wouldn't be a contract negotiation scenario and would be fluid at best (since future injuries are unknown at the time of the projection), the meeting would not have a lot of value. It would be good for warm and fuzzies but money talks. If the team felt that strongly about letting a player know they wanted them in their future, they would open contract re-negotiations with the player and show them how much value the player has to the team. Those they couldn't do anything about would have to wait until they could show them.

 

[Shock2k]

The players coming up for their second contract have seen how the business side of football operates. They saw how the team had to let Leon Washington go because they had an opportunity to bring in Harvin. They saw how other players were replaced when the hard business decision had to be made. Sure, the young core of defensive backs want to stay together to grow a legacy. But the team cannot handcuff themselves.

The team is full of mid-round players who will not get top dollar on the open market, but will be influenced by agents who want them to maximize their earning potential. Sherman is an edge case who will want to have a second contract written that would match a 1st round pick's second contract, IMO.

The team couldn't use the scenario laid out by the OP because of the fact the player's agent would be there. Since it wouldn't be a contract negotiation scenario and would be fluid at best (since future injuries are unknown at the time of the projection), the meeting would not have a lot of value. It would be good for warm and fuzzies but money talks. If the team felt that strongly about letting a player know they wanted them in their future, they would open contract re-negotiations with the player and show them how much value the player has to the team. Those they couldn't do anything about would have to wait until they could show them.

I think you missing the point of my latest post. The point being, Brandon Browner is reflecting an answer of my original question. Do players care more about Legacy or Money. And in his case I believe him that he cares more about Legacy.

 

[drdiags]

I think you missing the point of my latest post. The point being, Brandon Browner is reflecting an answer of my original question. Do players care more about Legacy or Money. And in his case I believe him that he cares more about Legacy.

Didn't miss your point. I heard what he said. It still takes two to tangle. The team values him but not to the extent they want to give him an extension. Or did they want to but his agent advised against it? All we know is he got a raise, he appreciates it and wants to be part of a group that has a lasting legacy. Players sentiment is one thing, FO business decisions are another.

A player could want to give a discount for legacy purposes but the team has younger players they want to move up the depth chart due to the costs of a position group.

 

[Shock2k]

Fair enough.

 

[rideaducati]

We now have players that have left the Seahawks that are coming back to the Seahawks. I think the entire organization is starting to get a reputation as a great place to be. Look at the signings this offseason and you see guys that took less to be in Seattle than they could have gotten elsewhere. What a difference Pete and John have made.

 

[Seahawker86]

We are really building from the Green Bay and the Patriot philosophy. Load up with picks and build through the draft, develop guys and resign them for a cheaper rate b/c you build a championship organization. Guys want to play for a good organization, they will take less money to play for them. Its already happened here. Zach Miller, Winfield, Bennett, Avril...all took less money to come here. They said it publically and you bet your ass they say it in the locker room. What better way to fit in to say "Hey guys, I'm really excited to be here. I could have played somewhere else for more money but chose to be a part of what everyone here is already building upon" Someone also said that when Bam Bam signed his extension he talked with the rest of the L.O.B. They probably talked about what they were expecting to get, would each take less money to stay, endorsement deals, L.O.B. clothing. They are all young. We could have them for the next 5 years playing together easily. They know this, and I follow them on twitter. They are always doing things together. Like everyday it feels like. They are very close and I believe they want to stay close. Plus with the no state income taxes they wouldn't be making THAT much more that would be warrant them to leave such a great establishment. Guys, when Paul Allen took over as owner he really started to build something great for us fans. Holmgren really jump started it forus and now we really have the proper tools in place. People want to play here, people want to talk about it, ESPN wants to talk about us. We are what we never were....Main Stream

 

[SonicHawk]

If we let anyone go to FA they will sign for a lot more than they would if we tried to re-sign them prior to then. It's not necessarily a home-town discount, it's removing the gamble by the player. If you're the only one with an offer on the table it's easier to say, ok I can live with that.

 

[RichNhansom]

Vmac is one of if not the best facility in the league. The Clink is probably considered by everyone as the best stadium and home field advantage in the league. A poll back in Pete's first year here throughout the NFL asked which coach would you prefer to play under given the choice and Pete Carroll was the #1 coach. Best/funnest practices on and on. Essentially just about everything a player could ask for is right here and all of that doesn't even take into account we are considered one of the most feared teams in the league while still in the very early stages of growing. This is the first year that Pete and John have been here that we aren't looking at multiple rookies to start for us. Our captains are set and we are in position to only get better.

Not to mention we have been attracting some of the best talent in the league and players that come in here are in awe of everything the rookies might take for granted. You can bet the rookies are taking notice. With all that media is paying much more attention to us and endorsements come with it.

I don't expect anyone to come here or stay here for half of their earning potential but I do believe if things are close to equal the guys will more often than not try and stay here and sometimes even if it means taking a little less.

 

[Subzero717]

I don't know the answer and was speculating with my cousin and I hate it. Wilson, Sherm, Browner, Tate, Baldwin, KJ, Wagner, are all on "cheap contracts" and we can't possibly keep all of them. That's not even close to all of the them. QB's are now getting 20% of cap. It's ridiculous but without one......