Seahawks Offense: 2016 Report Card

[Bobblehead]

Well I think that states my point that Wilson won't be a over the middle passer. and we won't have a middle of the field passing attack in any foreseeable future.

 

[Anthony!]

I wouldn't be so generous on the receivers. Our lack of size at that position is leaving a lot of the standard NFL playbook dark for us because we can't send our tiny guys over the middle or beat press routinely. They're certainly overperforming given what they have, but our lack of creativity is hurting them and the offense. Kearse isn't much and that leaves Graham to get double-teamed.

If we actually used Graham this way more than once in a blue moon, it might matter if we had more big receivers; but...

I think most of the problem is our OC, he does not seem to be very good at creating matchups or taking advantage of them. That said it is very rare that Graham is not double teamed down in the redzone or for that matter anyplace on the field. Problem is other than Baldwin we have no way to take advantage of it, maybe with Lockett if he returns and the hopeful emergence of Richardson that will change but again they are both smaller receivers. Another issue is our oline what good is any of this if we don't have time to throw or get to the 2nd or 3rd read. The more I think about ti the more I think if our olein can just be middle of the pack in pass blocking we will be fine, but a big WR would not upset me at all.

 

[Anthony!]

Well I think that states my point that Wilson won't be a over the middle passer. and we won't have a middle of the field passing attack in any foreseeable future.

states your point you mean your saying it makes it a point, once again you try to make this about Wilson when it is not it is PC so the correct statement would be that the Hawks will not be an over the middle passing team while PC is the coach. That I might agree with.

 

[Overseasfan]

I think it's unfair to give the same grade to every O-linemen. I mean Britt was a revelation and while not suddenly playing at All-Pro level he turned it around and went from one of the worst O-linemen in the league to an average center in his first year playing the position. Just looking at his level of play I'd say C+ but with everything considered he should at least get a B-, maybe even a B.

Glowinski also wasn't that bad most of the time, below average but not horrible, C-.

Ifedi was pretty bad but flashed some potential. I'm willing to go a little easy on him but even though there's no way his performance should be above a D.

Tackle is where the worst shit happened though. Sowell, Gilliam and Fant should probably all get an F.

 

[Hawks46]

True, but considering our oline was middle of the pack for a while with flashes of potential as well as horror - a C- feels about right. Brad Sowell was worse than we give him credit for.

So we're saying the worst OL in the league (per peformance, not talent. i think they have potential) is at a C- ? Sounds too high to me as well.

 

[Bobblehead]

Well I think that states my point that Wilson won't be a over the middle passer. and we won't have a middle of the field passing attack in any foreseeable future.

states your point you mean your saying it makes it a point, once again you try to make this about Wilson when it is not it is PC so the correct statement would be that the Hawks will not be an over the middle passing team while PC is the coach. That I might agree with.

Well, I certainly don't know it all and I certainly don't know what PC is thinking as he's never discussed it with me, but, I think it is about Wilson and Wilson's strengths and weaknesses. Right or wrong, it's my opinion and it's all I have and all you can do is preach to the choir as they say.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Well I think that states my point that Wilson won't be a over the middle passer. and we won't have a middle of the field passing attack in any foreseeable future.

states your point you mean your saying it makes it a point, once again you try to make this about Wilson when it is not it is PC so the correct statement would be that the Hawks will not be an over the middle passing team while PC is the coach. That I might agree with.

Well, I certainly don't know it all and I certainly don't know what PC is thinking as he's never discussed it with me, but, I think it is about Wilson and Wilson's strengths and weaknesses. Right or wrong, it's my opinion and it's all I have and all you can do is preach to the choir as they say.

I agree that Wilson is not a fan of throwing over the middle. It's why there are so few checkdowns to that part of the field.

 

[Anthony!]

I think it's unfair to give the same grade to every O-linemen. I mean Britt was a revelation and while not suddenly playing at All-Pro level he turned it around and went from one of the worst O-linemen in the league to an average center in his first year playing the position. Just looking at his level of play I'd say C+ but with everything considered he should at least get a B-, maybe even a B.

Glowinski also wasn't that bad most of the time, below average but not horrible, C-.

Ifedi was pretty bad but flashed some potential. I'm willing to go a little easy on him but even though there's no way his performance should be above a D.

Tackle is where the worst shit happened though. Sowell, Gilliam and Fant should probably all get an F.

I dont disagree with you but compared to an AVG oline the rankings are about right and maybe even high, Individually maybe some might be higher. Our biggest issue is at the tackle position.

 

[scutterhawk]

I wouldn't be so generous on the receivers. Our lack of size at that position is leaving a lot of the standard NFL playbook dark for us because we can't send our tiny guys over the middle or beat press routinely. They're certainly overperforming given what they have, but our lack of creativity is hurting them and the offense. Kearse isn't much and that leaves Graham to get double-teamed.

I still think that's on Russell, the over the middle. I still don't think he can lob it over Linemen, or hang in the pocket for a last moment shot over the middle. I don't think that it will ever be part of our game as long as Wilson is our QB.

You make a good point. I think it's also RW's lack of height that hinders the over-the-middle passing. NFL lines are huge these days. RW is really short. A 6-foot NFL QB is short. I'm 6-foot and I tower over Russ. It was shocking, actually how short he is. Think perhaps that's what motivated him to bulk up but that also made him slower which IMO led to injuries he might have otherwise avoided. Granted, the O-Line is cause #1 for those injuries.

ALL 3 of youse guys is NUTS.
His height was NO problem leading to Super Bowl in 2013, Super Bowl run in 2014, & for the second half of the 2015 Season where he and LITTLE Doug Baldwin were TOP OF THE STATS HEAP for ALL Quarterbacks in the LEAGUE.
THREE INJURIES to ANY Quarterback is detrimental to ANY TEAM SUCCESSES.
Adding FAT will slow you down, adding MUSCLE does not......IMHO
"Granted The SHITTY O-Line Is Cause #1 For Those Injuries" :roll: :roll:

 

[scutterhawk]

I think it's unfair to give the same grade to every O-linemen. I mean Britt was a revelation and while not suddenly playing at All-Pro level he turned it around and went from one of the worst O-linemen in the league to an average center in his first year playing the position. Just looking at his level of play I'd say C+ but with everything considered he should at least get a B-, maybe even a B.

Glowinski also wasn't that bad most of the time, below average but not horrible, C-.

Ifedi was pretty bad but flashed some potential. I'm willing to go a little easy on him but even though there's no way his performance should be above a D.

Tackle is where the worst shit happened though. Sowell, Gilliam and Fant should probably all get an F.

A chain is only as strong as it's weakest link, so with "Weak Links" both to Britt's Right & Left, I think he deserves at LEAST an A-, as HE shouldn't be graded for THEIR inept play...."No Man Is An Island" :2thumbs:

 

[semiahmoo]

This was after RW was said to be feeling back to his old self late in 2016.
He had a bad season by his standards. In fact, his late season performances placed him near the very bottom of the league at the QB spot.

Here are the bottom five, sorted by Passing NEP.

Name Team Opp Week Comp. Att. Yards TD INT P NEP P NEP/P
Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ KC 3 20 44 188 0 6 -27.23 -0.62
Blake Bortles JAC DEN 13 19 42 181 0 2 -23.59 -0.55
Russell Wilson SEA TB 12 17 33 151 0 2 -22.57 -0.58
Dak Prescott DAL NYG 14 17 37 165 1 2 -20.11 -0.5
Russell Wilson SEA GB 14 22 39 240 1 5 -18.71 -0.45

People pointing out concerns doesn't make them RW haters. Just football realists. It also means all of us hope he has a bounce-back year next season. He needs it. The Hawks need it. The fans need it.


Related: https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/118 ... cent-weeks

 

[KiwiHawk]

It pains me when you guys go laser-focus on one thing and completely ignore the underlying concept that success in the NFL is based on synergy.

Simple idea: Pete Carroll puts great emphasis on the running game. The OL and blocking scheme are designed around the rushing game. The mobile QB off-sets the weakness of the OL in pass blocking when combined with hesitancy on the defense having to respect the run.

Take away the running game, and it all falls apart. The run-first OL isn't as good at pass blocking, and the defense can come full-force because they don't respect the running game. Add an injury to the QB, and you have the perfect storm of no running game, below-average pass blocking, and an immobile QB. Of course it's not going to work.

If we can get some healthy rushers and a legitimate 3rd-down threat like we had in The Procise Game, the offense looks amazing even with the pedestrian OL.

Time to stop throwing blame around like a manure-spreader and start realizing we had some failures at critical points that led to our demise and we were still good enough to make the playoffs and even win a playoff game. We'll be fine with a bit of health.

 

[semiahmoo]

It pains me when you guys go laser-focus on one thing and completely ignore the underlying concept that success in the NFL is based on synergy.

Simple idea: Pete Carroll puts great emphasis on the running game. The OL and blocking scheme are designed around the rushing game. The mobile QB off-sets the weakness of the OL in pass blocking when combined with hesitancy on the defense having to respect the run.

Take away the running game, and it all falls apart. The run-first OL isn't as good at pass blocking, and the defense can come full-force because they don't respect the running game. Add an injury to the QB, and you have the perfect storm of no running game, below-average pass blocking, and an immobile QB. Of course it's not going to work.

If we can get some healthy rushers and a legitimate 3rd-down threat like we had in The Procise Game, the offense looks amazing even with the pedestrian OL.

Time to stop throwing blame around like a manure-spreader and start realizing we had some failures at critical points that led to our demise and we were still good enough to make the playoffs and even win a playoff game. We'll be fine with a bit of health.

A good run game begins with a good O-Line, not the other way around. A good O-Line blocks be it for the run, the pass, etc. And if a coach emphasizes the running game, then the O-Line is the beginning of that emphasis.

Beast's best seasons were with a very strong Seahawks O-Line. Without them, he would not have had the years he did. And don't forget, he was a very capable receiving back as well. Again, that comes from a far more capable O-Line than what we've had in recent seasons.

RW is getting older. He's def. slower/heavier. He needs a better O-Line now more than ever. Last season was proof of that.

 

[Anthony!]

I wouldn't be so generous on the receivers. Our lack of size at that position is leaving a lot of the standard NFL playbook dark for us because we can't send our tiny guys over the middle or beat press routinely. They're certainly overperforming given what they have, but our lack of creativity is hurting them and the offense. Kearse isn't much and that leaves Graham to get double-teamed.

I still think that's on Russell, the over the middle. I still don't think he can lob it over Linemen, or hang in the pocket for a last moment shot over the middle. I don't think that it will ever be part of our game as long as Wilson is our QB.

You make a good point. I think it's also RW's lack of height that hinders the over-the-middle passing. NFL lines are huge these days. RW is really short. A 6-foot NFL QB is short. I'm 6-foot and I tower over Russ. It was shocking, actually how short he is. Think perhaps that's what motivated him to bulk up but that also made him slower which IMO led to injuries he might have otherwise avoided. Granted, the O-Line is cause #1 for those injuries.

ALL 3 of youse guys is NUTS.
His height was NO problem leading to Super Bowl in 2013, Super Bowl run in 2014, & for the second half of the 2015 Season where he and LITTLE Doug Baldwin were TOP OF THE STATS HEAP for ALL Quarterbacks in the LEAGUE.
THREE INJURIES to ANY Quarterback is detrimental to ANY TEAM SUCCESSES.
Adding FAT will slow you down, adding MUSCLE does not......IMHO
"Granted The SHITTY O-Line Is Cause #1 For Those Injuries" :roll: :roll:

Great post spot on but haters going to hare

 

[Anthony!]

This was after RW was said to be feeling back to his old self late in 2016.
He had a bad season by his standards. In fact, his late season performances placed him near the very bottom of the league at the QB spot.

Here are the bottom five, sorted by Passing NEP.

Name Team Opp Week Comp. Att. Yards TD INT P NEP P NEP/P
Ryan Fitzpatrick NYJ KC 3 20 44 188 0 6 -27.23 -0.62
Blake Bortles JAC DEN 13 19 42 181 0 2 -23.59 -0.55
Russell Wilson SEA TB 12 17 33 151 0 2 -22.57 -0.58
Dak Prescott DAL NYG 14 17 37 165 1 2 -20.11 -0.5
Russell Wilson SEA GB 14 22 39 240 1 5 -18.71 -0.45

People pointing out concerns doesn't make them RW haters. Just football realists. It also means all of us hope he has a bounce-back year next season. He needs it. The Hawks need it. The fans need it.


Related: https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/118 ... cent-weeks

Dude he as never back to his old self, did you even read what was being said when he got injured, they all said he will not be 100% till after the season. Those injuries take 6-8 weeks to recover form and hat is not playing. As tyo your article so and PFF just named him a top 5 QB from 2016 hmm

 

[Anthony!]

It pains me when you guys go laser-focus on one thing and completely ignore the underlying concept that success in the NFL is based on synergy.

Simple idea: Pete Carroll puts great emphasis on the running game. The OL and blocking scheme are designed around the rushing game. The mobile QB off-sets the weakness of the OL in pass blocking when combined with hesitancy on the defense having to respect the run.

Take away the running game, and it all falls apart. The run-first OL isn't as good at pass blocking, and the defense can come full-force because they don't respect the running game. Add an injury to the QB, and you have the perfect storm of no running game, below-average pass blocking, and an immobile QB. Of course it's not going to work.

If we can get some healthy rushers and a legitimate 3rd-down threat like we had in The Procise Game, the offense looks amazing even with the pedestrian OL.

Time to stop throwing blame around like a manure-spreader and start realizing we had some failures at critical points that led to our demise and we were still good enough to make the playoffs and even win a playoff game. We'll be fine with a bit of health.

A good run game begins with a good O-Line, not the other way around. A good O-Line blocks be it for the run, the pass, etc. And if a coach emphasizes the running game, then the O-Line is the beginning of that emphasis.

Beast's best seasons were with a very strong Seahawks O-Line. Without them, he would not have had the years he did. And don't forget, he was a very capable receiving back as well. Again, that comes from a far more capable O-Line than what we've had in recent seasons.

RW is getting older. He's def. slower/heavier. He needs a better O-Line now more than ever. Last season was proof of that.

One Lynchs best years came once we got Wilson and made it hard to key on Beast. Cable said as much, as to the rest older gee not even in his prime yet, slower really don't think injuries had more to do with that. Haters going to hate

 

[semiahmoo]

Lynch's output pre-RW (2011) was quite comparable to the years with Wilson. Your attempted point doesn't quite hold up. Go back and check out the O-Line then. Even with injuries we were deep enough to absorb those injuries and improve the running game tremendously during the 2nd half of the year. If you are saying RW made Beast great you are way off. In fact, Beast was already great and allowed RW the chance to further develop. It's become quite clear RW is not nearly so effective without a serious running threat aiding him in the backfield.

Running game begins with the O-Line. Has nothing to do with "health" if the players are simply not good enough. Cable and Pete did not adjust to a change in personnel, perhaps thinking RW could run his way out of trouble/sandlot from the QB position. That worked sometimes, likely caused injury other times, making the Hawks good enough to whimper into the playoffs but they were never a serious threat to go back to the Big Show. Injuries played a part, but a lesser part. The team was dysfunctional from the top down.

That needs to change this off-season or 2016 will be repeated, perhaps even with a failure to reach the playoffs should people remain happy with the current status-quo.

 

[hawkfan68]

It pains me when you guys go laser-focus on one thing and completely ignore the underlying concept that success in the NFL is based on synergy.

Simple idea: Pete Carroll puts great emphasis on the running game. The OL and blocking scheme are designed around the rushing game. The mobile QB off-sets the weakness of the OL in pass blocking when combined with hesitancy on the defense having to respect the run.

Take away the running game, and it all falls apart. The run-first OL isn't as good at pass blocking, and the defense can come full-force because they don't respect the running game. Add an injury to the QB, and you have the perfect storm of no running game, below-average pass blocking, and an immobile QB. Of course it's not going to work.

If we can get some healthy rushers and a legitimate 3rd-down threat like we had in The Procise Game, the offense looks amazing even with the pedestrian OL.

Time to stop throwing blame around like a manure-spreader and start realizing we had some failures at critical points that led to our demise and we were still good enough to make the playoffs and even win a playoff game. We'll be fine with a bit of health.

The problem was that the 2016-17 Seahawk OL couldn't run block well either. In the previous years they were able to at least adequately run block. Teams had to account for Lynch. Lynch was able to overcome the deficiencies of the OL.That's what changed. Not able to run block or pass block plus not having a running threat, like a Lynch, led to the results we saw last season. RW was not the problem, the OL was and that being the problem led to other problems with the offense. RW was less effective because he was running for his life with about 3-4 guys breathing down on him almost every play. A turnstile would have been better than 5 of the 6 guys the Seahawks trotted out there last season (exception being Britt).

 

[Anthony!]

It pains me when you guys go laser-focus on one thing and completely ignore the underlying concept that success in the NFL is based on synergy.

Simple idea: Pete Carroll puts great emphasis on the running game. The OL and blocking scheme are designed around the rushing game. The mobile QB off-sets the weakness of the OL in pass blocking when combined with hesitancy on the defense having to respect the run.

Take away the running game, and it all falls apart. The run-first OL isn't as good at pass blocking, and the defense can come full-force because they don't respect the running game. Add an injury to the QB, and you have the perfect storm of no running game, below-average pass blocking, and an immobile QB. Of course it's not going to work.

If we can get some healthy rushers and a legitimate 3rd-down threat like we had in The Procise Game, the offense looks amazing even with the pedestrian OL.

Time to stop throwing blame around like a manure-spreader and start realizing we had some failures at critical points that led to our demise and we were still good enough to make the playoffs and even win a playoff game. We'll be fine with a bit of health.

The problem was that the 2016-17 Seahawk OL couldn't run block well either. In the previous years they were able to at least adequately run block. Teams had to account for Lynch. Lynch was able to overcome the deficiencies of the OL.That's what changed. Not able to run block or pass block plus not having a running threat, like a Lynch, led to the results we saw last season. RW was not the problem, the OL was and that being the problem led to other problems with the offense. RW was less effective because he was running for his life with about 3-4 guys breathing down on him almost every play. A turnstile would have been better than 5 of the 6 guys the Seahawks trotted out there last season (exception being Britt).

We have a winner and then of course add in the injuries

 

[Anthony!]

Lynch's output pre-RW (2011) was quite comparable to the years with Wilson. Your attempted point doesn't quite hold up. Go back and check out the O-Line then. Even with injuries we were deep enough to absorb those injuries and improve the running game tremendously during the 2nd half of the year. If you are saying RW made Beast great you are way off. In fact, Beast was already great and allowed RW the chance to further develop. It's become quite clear RW is not nearly so effective without a serious running threat aiding him in the backfield.

Running game begins with the O-Line. Has nothing to do with "health" if the players are simply not good enough. Cable and Pete did not adjust to a change in personnel, perhaps thinking RW could run his way out of trouble/sandlot from the QB position. That worked sometimes, likely caused injury other times, making the Hawks good enough to whimper into the playoffs but they were never a serious threat to go back to the Big Show. Injuries played a part, but a lesser part. The team was dysfunctional from the top down.

That needs to change this off-season or 2016 will be repeated, perhaps even with a failure to reach the playoffs should people remain happy with the current status-quo.

well at least you don't let the facts get in the way of your argument

Lynch in 2 years here with no Wilson, 3.9 ypa. Lynch in 4 years with Wilson 4.5 ypa yeah that is close....not. But hey head way I actually agree with your last paragraph and sentence.