Seahawks Offense: 2016 Report Card

[Tical21]

Wow, that's how you take over a thread with authority. I'm impressed.

 

[Bobblehead]

Wow, that's how you take over a thread with authority. I'm impressed.

If only PC and JS knew.

 

[scutterhawk]

Wow, that's how you take over a thread with authority. I'm impressed.

Pointing out goofy misconceptions is a dirty job, but somebody's got to do it, eh? 8)

 

[RussB]

Id give a C-

 

[semiahmoo]

Lynch's output pre-RW (2011) was quite comparable to the years with Wilson. Your attempted point doesn't quite hold up. Go back and check out the O-Line then. Even with injuries we were deep enough to absorb those injuries and improve the running game tremendously during the 2nd half of the year. If you are saying RW made Beast great you are way off. In fact, Beast was already great and allowed RW the chance to further develop. It's become quite clear RW is not nearly so effective without a serious running threat aiding him in the backfield.

Running game begins with the O-Line. Has nothing to do with "health" if the players are simply not good enough. Cable and Pete did not adjust to a change in personnel, perhaps thinking RW could run his way out of trouble/sandlot from the QB position. That worked sometimes, likely caused injury other times, making the Hawks good enough to whimper into the playoffs but they were never a serious threat to go back to the Big Show. Injuries played a part, but a lesser part. The team was dysfunctional from the top down.

That needs to change this off-season or 2016 will be repeated, perhaps even with a failure to reach the playoffs should people remain happy with the current status-quo.

well at least you don't let the facts get in the way of your argument

Lynch in 2 years here with no Wilson, 3.9 ypa. Lynch in 4 years with Wilson 4.5 ypa yeah that is close....not. But hey head way I actually agree with your last paragraph and sentence.

That was due to O-Line improvement as much as RW's arrival. Second, don't combine the two pre RW seasons for Beast. The first of those seasons was incomplete. (He wasn't playing much for the Bills at the time) He didn't have 2 full years w/o Wilson - he had one.

His first full Seahawk season (one w/o RW) was comparable to those with RW, (minus the injury-plagued final season) as originally stated, including total yards, ypa, touchdowns, etc. Beast allowed RW to develop - RW did not allow Beast to develop. Marshawn was already great at his position by then and both he and RW were aided by a competent and capable O-Line.

Which brings back the original point - the running game begins with the O-Line. Hawks need to improve in that regard or 2017 will be a repeat or worse of 2016. Pete and Co. have continued to play a run offense with players who could not deliver that style game in and game out. RW shows up heavier/slower, is forced to run more due to crappy O-Line, suffers multiple injuries, and the season sputters its way to a brief playoff run.

Some might be OK with that.

I prefer the Hawks improve.

 

[Anthony!]

Lynch's output pre-RW (2011) was quite comparable to the years with Wilson. Your attempted point doesn't quite hold up. Go back and check out the O-Line then. Even with injuries we were deep enough to absorb those injuries and improve the running game tremendously during the 2nd half of the year. If you are saying RW made Beast great you are way off. In fact, Beast was already great and allowed RW the chance to further develop. It's become quite clear RW is not nearly so effective without a serious running threat aiding him in the backfield.

Running game begins with the O-Line. Has nothing to do with "health" if the players are simply not good enough. Cable and Pete did not adjust to a change in personnel, perhaps thinking RW could run his way out of trouble/sandlot from the QB position. That worked sometimes, likely caused injury other times, making the Hawks good enough to whimper into the playoffs but they were never a serious threat to go back to the Big Show. Injuries played a part, but a lesser part. The team was dysfunctional from the top down.

That needs to change this off-season or 2016 will be repeated, perhaps even with a failure to reach the playoffs should people remain happy with the current status-quo.

well at least you don't let the facts get in the way of your argument

Lynch in 2 years here with no Wilson, 3.9 ypa. Lynch in 4 years with Wilson 4.5 ypa yeah that is close....not. But hey head way I actually agree with your last paragraph and sentence.

That was due to O-Line improvement as much as RW's arrival. Second, don't combine the two pre RW seasons for Beast. The first of those seasons was incomplete. (He wasn't playing much for the Bills at the time) He didn't have 2 full years w/o Wilson - he had one.

His first full Seahawk season (one w/o RW) was comparable to those with RW, (minus the injury-plagued final season) as originally stated, including total yards, ypa, touchdowns, etc. Beast allowed RW to develop - RW did not allow Beast to develop. Marshawn was already great at his position by then and both he and RW were aided by a competent and capable O-Line.

Which brings back the original point - the running game begins with the O-Line. Hawks need to improve in that regard or 2017 will be a repeat or worse of 2016. Pete and Co. have continued to play a run offense with players who could not deliver that style game in and game out. RW shows up heavier/slower, is forced to run more due to crappy O-Line, suffers multiple injuries, and the season sputters its way to a brief playoff run.

Some might be OK with that.

I prefer the Hawks improve.

FYI I only counted the Seattle stats from his partial year so its still viable. Added up attempts and yards and did the math so it is a viable comparison. I also aded his partial year last year

Okay lets look at Lynch first full year in Seattle without Wilson

He avg 4,2 ypa and had 1204 yards

During his 3 full years with Wilson he avg 4.6 YPA so almost a full half a yard more and 1384 yards so again sorry not that close.

Now oline Well first you have the oline coach saying Wilson was a huge part of why the run game got better but hey what does he know. So well enough said. That said I agree with improving the olinebut not just for running but to protect the QB.

 

[ZagHawk]

"Jermaine Kearse was dependable as usual"

lol


I know I always can depend on Jermaine Kearse to either:

A) Make a miracle catch
B) Drop the ball
C) Tip the ball into an INT
D) Commit an offensive PI ruining a big play

in previous years A happened enough times where B-D didn't hurt as much. This year was not the case.

 

[semiahmoo]

Lynch's output pre-RW (2011) was quite comparable to the years with Wilson. Your attempted point doesn't quite hold up. Go back and check out the O-Line then. Even with injuries we were deep enough to absorb those injuries and improve the running game tremendously during the 2nd half of the year. If you are saying RW made Beast great you are way off. In fact, Beast was already great and allowed RW the chance to further develop. It's become quite clear RW is not nearly so effective without a serious running threat aiding him in the backfield.

Running game begins with the O-Line. Has nothing to do with "health" if the players are simply not good enough. Cable and Pete did not adjust to a change in personnel, perhaps thinking RW could run his way out of trouble/sandlot from the QB position. That worked sometimes, likely caused injury other times, making the Hawks good enough to whimper into the playoffs but they were never a serious threat to go back to the Big Show. Injuries played a part, but a lesser part. The team was dysfunctional from the top down.

That needs to change this off-season or 2016 will be repeated, perhaps even with a failure to reach the playoffs should people remain happy with the current status-quo.

well at least you don't let the facts get in the way of your argument

Lynch in 2 years here with no Wilson, 3.9 ypa. Lynch in 4 years with Wilson 4.5 ypa yeah that is close....not. But hey head way I actually agree with your last paragraph and sentence.

That was due to O-Line improvement as much as RW's arrival. Second, don't combine the two pre RW seasons for Beast. The first of those seasons was incomplete. (He wasn't playing much for the Bills at the time) He didn't have 2 full years w/o Wilson - he had one.

His first full Seahawk season (one w/o RW) was comparable to those with RW, (minus the injury-plagued final season) as originally stated, including total yards, ypa, touchdowns, etc. Beast allowed RW to develop - RW did not allow Beast to develop. Marshawn was already great at his position by then and both he and RW were aided by a competent and capable O-Line.

Which brings back the original point - the running game begins with the O-Line. Hawks need to improve in that regard or 2017 will be a repeat or worse of 2016. Pete and Co. have continued to play a run offense with players who could not deliver that style game in and game out. RW shows up heavier/slower, is forced to run more due to crappy O-Line, suffers multiple injuries, and the season sputters its way to a brief playoff run.

Some might be OK with that.

I prefer the Hawks improve.

FYI I only counted the Seattle stats from his partial year so its still viable. Added up attempts and yards and did the math so it is a viable comparison. I also aded his partial year last year

Okay lets look at Lynch first full year in Seattle without Wilson

He avg 4,2 ypa and had 1204 yards

During his 3 full years with Wilson he avg 4.6 YPA so almost a full half a yard more and 1384 yards so again sorry not that close.

Now oline Well first you have the oline coach saying Wilson was a huge part of why the run game got better but hey what does he know. So well enough said. That said I agree with improving the olinebut not just for running but to protect the QB.

You just made my point. Marshawn was already great pre-RW. And then the O-Line was further solidified and that greatness was further exploited against other teams while also allowing RW time to develop. His 4.2 YPA in 2011 was the same as he had in 2013 - and he had the same # of TDs as well both pre RW and with RW.

2012 was of course the Beast's best YPA year (making it something of an outlier) which was also a year when the Hawks O-Line was strong as well and Marshawn had a Pro Bowl fullback to help push the gap. (Robinson was far more important to the Hawks' running game success than he was given credit for IMO) All of which gave us a SB win.

Marshawn helped RW to be better - not the other way around. That is further evidenced by how much the team dynamic has changed since his injury-plagued season and subsequent retirement. The Hawks have not adjusted well enough to remain a SB caliber team. Hopefully that adjustment can take place this off-season but I fear a more thorough overhaul may be in order on both sides of the ball.

 

[Anthony!]

well at least you don't let the facts get in the way of your argument

Lynch in 2 years here with no Wilson, 3.9 ypa. Lynch in 4 years with Wilson 4.5 ypa yeah that is close....not. But hey head way I actually agree with your last paragraph and sentence.

That was due to O-Line improvement as much as RW's arrival. Second, don't combine the two pre RW seasons for Beast. The first of those seasons was incomplete. (He wasn't playing much for the Bills at the time) He didn't have 2 full years w/o Wilson - he had one.

His first full Seahawk season (one w/o RW) was comparable to those with RW, (minus the injury-plagued final season) as originally stated, including total yards, ypa, touchdowns, etc. Beast allowed RW to develop - RW did not allow Beast to develop. Marshawn was already great at his position by then and both he and RW were aided by a competent and capable O-Line.

Which brings back the original point - the running game begins with the O-Line. Hawks need to improve in that regard or 2017 will be a repeat or worse of 2016. Pete and Co. have continued to play a run offense with players who could not deliver that style game in and game out. RW shows up heavier/slower, is forced to run more due to crappy O-Line, suffers multiple injuries, and the season sputters its way to a brief playoff run.

Some might be OK with that.

I prefer the Hawks improve.

FYI I only counted the Seattle stats from his partial year so its still viable. Added up attempts and yards and did the math so it is a viable comparison. I also aded his partial year last year

Okay lets look at Lynch first full year in Seattle without Wilson

He avg 4,2 ypa and had 1204 yards

During his 3 full years with Wilson he avg 4.6 YPA so almost a full half a yard more and 1384 yards so again sorry not that close.

Now oline Well first you have the oline coach saying Wilson was a huge part of why the run game got better but hey what does he know. So well enough said. That said I agree with improving the olinebut not just for running but to protect the QB.

You just made my point. Marshawn was already great pre-RW. And then the O-Line was further solidified and that greatness was further exploited against other teams while also allowing RW time to develop. His 4.2 YPA in 2011 was the same as he had in 2013 - and he had the same # of TDs as well both pre RW and with RW.

2012 was of course the Beast's best YPA year (making it something of an outlier) which was also a year when the Hawks O-Line was strong as well and Marshawn had a Pro Bowl fullback to help push the gap. (Robinson was far more important to the Hawks' running game success than he was given credit for IMO) All of which gave us a SB win.

Marshawn helped RW to be better - not the other way around. That is further evidenced by how much the team dynamic has changed since his injury-plagued season and subsequent retirement. The Hawks have not adjusted well enough to remain a SB caliber team. Hopefully that adjustment can take place this off-season but I fear a more thorough overhaul may be in order on both sides of the ball.

lol You think, I made your point LOL almost a full half a yard more per carry afetr Wilson enough said try as you want to do what you do best and down grade Wilson the FACT clearly show he had a huge impact on Lynch adn our run game. Bu tenjoy your alternate reality

 

[RiverDog]

Good read.

I think the article was a little too generous overall. You can't really take into account or inability to perform due to injury, such as the case with Russell, or inexperience, as was the case with the OL. Evaluations like these have to be done strictly on performance and not factoring in physical or mental limitations. It's called excuse making. They don't hold parades for the team that tried the hardest.

 

[semiahmoo]

Good read.

I think the article was a little too generous overall. You can't really take into account or inability to perform due to injury, such as the case with Russell, or inexperience, as was the case with the OL. Evaluations like these have to be done strictly on performance and not factoring in physical or mental limitations. It's called excuse making. They don't hold parades for the team that tried the hardest.

Good points and agree the excuse making does not make for a better team.

Hawks had a subpar year compared to their best years. RW was a middling at best QB for most the season.
Running game was weak.
O-Line awful at times.
Defense looked old/tired/frustrated for much of the season.

Regardless the cause, be it injury, age, personnel, fat Russ, whatever, they need to be addressed and a more focused and capable team to come out of the gate in 2017.

 

[Anthony!]

Good read.

I think the article was a little too generous overall. You can't really take into account or inability to perform due to injury, such as the case with Russell, or inexperience, as was the case with the OL. Evaluations like these have to be done strictly on performance and not factoring in physical or mental limitations. It's called excuse making. They don't hold parades for the team that tried the hardest.

Good points and agree the excuse making does not make for a better team.

Hawks had a subpar year compared to their best years. RW was a middling at best QB for most the season.
Running game was weak.
O-Line awful at times.
Defense looked old/tired/frustrated for much of the season.

Regardless the cause, be it injury, age, personnel, fat Russ, whatever, they need to be addressed and a more focused and capable team to come out of the gate in 2017.

ukeface: all this deserves

 

[RiverDog]

Good read.

I think the article was a little too generous overall. You can't really take into account or inability to perform due to injury, such as the case with Russell, or inexperience, as was the case with the OL. Evaluations like these have to be done strictly on performance and not factoring in physical or mental limitations. It's called excuse making. They don't hold parades for the team that tried the hardest.

Good points and agree the excuse making does not make for a better team.

Hawks had a subpar year compared to their best years. RW was a middling at best QB for most the season.
Running game was weak.
O-Line awful at times.
Defense looked old/tired/frustrated for much of the season.

Regardless the cause, be it injury, age, personnel, fat Russ, whatever, they need to be addressed and a more focused and capable team to come out of the gate in 2017.

Agreed. Even with a completely healthy Russell, we still got destroyed by the Falcons and Russ played poorly. All that excuse making will accomplish is to lead to more mediocrity.

 

[Anthony!]

Good read.

I think the article was a little too generous overall. You can't really take into account or inability to perform due to injury, such as the case with Russell, or inexperience, as was the case with the OL. Evaluations like these have to be done strictly on performance and not factoring in physical or mental limitations. It's called excuse making. They don't hold parades for the team that tried the hardest.

Good points and agree the excuse making does not make for a better team.

Hawks had a subpar year compared to their best years. RW was a middling at best QB for most the season.
Running game was weak.
O-Line awful at times.
Defense looked old/tired/frustrated for much of the season.

Regardless the cause, be it injury, age, personnel, fat Russ, whatever, they need to be addressed and a more focused and capable team to come out of the gate in 2017.

Agreed. Even with a completely healthy Russell, we still got destroyed by the Falcons and Russ played poorly. All that excuse making will accomplish is to lead to more mediocrity.

Dude he was not completely healthy by any means. The experts all said he would not be completely healthy till the off season. I mean jeez KJR had doctors on saying he could not get completely healthy while playing, Moon said it, as did several others. Good lord lets just make crap up shall we.

 

[chris98251]

Good read.

I think the article was a little too generous overall. You can't really take into account or inability to perform due to injury, such as the case with Russell, or inexperience, as was the case with the OL. Evaluations like these have to be done strictly on performance and not factoring in physical or mental limitations. It's called excuse making. They don't hold parades for the team that tried the hardest.

Good points and agree the excuse making does not make for a better team.

Hawks had a subpar year compared to their best years. RW was a middling at best QB for most the season.
Running game was weak.
O-Line awful at times.
Defense looked old/tired/frustrated for much of the season.

Regardless the cause, be it injury, age, personnel, fat Russ, whatever, they need to be addressed and a more focused and capable team to come out of the gate in 2017.

Agreed. Even with a completely healthy Russell, we still got destroyed by the Falcons and Russ played poorly. All that excuse making will accomplish is to lead to more mediocrity.

Dude he was not completely healthy by any means. The experts all said he would not be completely healthy till the off season. I mean jeez KJR had doctors on saying he could not get completely healthy while playing, Moon said it, as did several others. Good lord lets just make crap up shall we.

The media and Seahawks' have been very quiet on Russell's off season, torn Pec, knee injuries ankle and no feedback so far.

 

[Anthony!]

Good points and agree the excuse making does not make for a better team.

Hawks had a subpar year compared to their best years. RW was a middling at best QB for most the season.
Running game was weak.
O-Line awful at times.
Defense looked old/tired/frustrated for much of the season.

Regardless the cause, be it injury, age, personnel, fat Russ, whatever, they need to be addressed and a more focused and capable team to come out of the gate in 2017.

Agreed. Even with a completely healthy Russell, we still got destroyed by the Falcons and Russ played poorly. All that excuse making will accomplish is to lead to more mediocrity.

Dude he was not completely healthy by any means. The experts all said he would not be completely healthy till the off season. I mean jeez KJR had doctors on saying he could not get completely healthy while playing, Moon said it, as did several others. Good lord lets just make crap up shall we.

The media and Seahawks' have been very quiet on Russell's off season, torn Pec, knee injuries ankle and no feedback so far.

Not sure there is anything to share, he just needs time to heal.

 

[chris98251]

Or they don't want us to know how hurt he really was and what he needed to have fixed and or cleaned up, nothing about camps this year or get togethers, it's the first off season he has been married to Ciara also so there is that difference.

 

[Anthony!]

Or they don't want us to know how hurt he really was and what he needed to have fixed and or cleaned up, nothing about camps this year or get togethers, it's the first off season he has been married to Ciara also so there is that difference.

He did tweet he is working hard for the next SB, also still early

 

[semiahmoo]

Or they don't want us to know how hurt he really was and what he needed to have fixed and or cleaned up, nothing about camps this year or get togethers, it's the first off season he has been married to Ciara also so there is that difference.

Yeah, there was something def. wrong with him but it seemed he was off even during pre-season. Maybe he started the season with an injury?

Perhaps the abstaining made him more like Elaine vs George?

[youtube]qgOdMSIAH1Q[/youtube]

 

[Anthony!]

Or they don't want us to know how hurt he really was and what he needed to have fixed and or cleaned up, nothing about camps this year or get togethers, it's the first off season he has been married to Ciara also so there is that difference.

Yeah, there was something def. wrong with him but it seemed he was off even during pre-season. Maybe he started the season with an injury?

Perhaps the abstaining made him more like Elaine vs George?

[youtube]qgOdMSIAH1Q[/youtube]

ukeface: