Seahawks Redzone

[Anthony!]

You know some here keep talking about his height being a factor, I am still waiting for some proof of that. So far none, all speculations, and assumptions. Well when there no facts to support you just make it up.

No real facts to back that up. Just a theory based on lack of production. I for one want to discount it because if it was true Drew Brees would not be as efficient as he is in the red zone with only 1/2 inch height advantage.

I think it is mainly the oline and play calling, When you get down in the redzone play calling is huge and well ours sucks

Part of me wonders what would happen if Wilson got hooked up with the Saints current QB coach Joe Lombardi or OC Pete Carmichael. They work wonders with that Saints O but they throw the ball a TON and burn out defensive units.

Well in college he was a beast in the redzone so that kind of answers that. I mean I have all the games taped and look at a few the other day and made note of the redzone and the number of times we have 2 and 3 guys in one area is mind blowing. The number of times we are inside the 10 but not inside the say 5 and all our routes are short is also mind blowing. To me it seems like the play calling in the redzone is really bad. Whats worse we know have one fo the biggest and best redzone threats there is and we don't use him that much and that is all on play calling. The other issue is given the condensed space teams can afford to send an extra defender on a blitz. Wilson was the 2nd most blitzed QB in the redzone and was sacked, hit or hurried the most in the redzone of any QB. YOU can look at the Atl playoff game for proof there a totally free runner right at him.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I have multiple games on the DVR too and don't notice our receivers being bunched more than any other team.

People may pick on play calling as a lazy way to try to comprehend when something does not work just right, but there are just too many variables to take into account. Usually it's a combination of a few things. For the most part this past season the usual suspects in the red zone were an inconsistent line and tied into that was the lack of a run game. Jimmy had a tremendous year coming back from that injury and he'll be even more explosive next season.

Russell's next growth phase will being able to trust in himself and the receiver while throwing a pass in those tight quarters. Bevell will teach him to trust in his reads and the routes and the payoff will be more touchdowns.

 

[RolandDeschain]

Oh, now anybody picking on play calling is lazy.

 

[Anthony!]

Oh, now anybody picking on play calling is lazy. G

Its not lazy its a fact, point in case the SB against NE. Why in the heck do you lock the most dangerous QB in the NFL to a must throw timing pattern to your #5 WR? Answer you don't you roll him out and let him run or pass or throw it away, but not Bevel. In that case the play calling sucked as it does more often than not. How in the heck is JG not #1 target and first read in the redzone? That's play calling and I can go on and on and on. Play calling is a huge issue in the redzone.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Oh, now anybody picking on play calling is lazy. Glad you're here to tell us these things, former banned .NETter. I mean, Siouxhawk.

Its not lazy its a fact, point in case the SB against NE. Why in the heck do you lock the most dangerous QB in the NFL to a must throw timing pattern to your #5 WR? Answer you don't you roll him out and let him run or pass or throw it away, but not Bevel. In that case the play calling sucked as it does more often than not. How in the heck is JG not #1 target and first read in the redzone? That's play calling and I can go on and on and on. Play calling is a huge issue in the redzone.

The Super Bowl play is a common one in most teams' arsenal. We have run it quite a bit. It was a couple of inches from being a TD -- a split second quicker to the spot by Ricardo, who actually had a hot hand in the game, or a little less lead on Russ' throw.

As for Jimmy, you do realize he was an option on many red zone plays, don't you? Double or triple bracket coverage against him left safer targets to others in Russ' mind. Kearse was often the target and we know how that transpired. Russ was just off this year, likely due to the injuries. Jimmy was coming back from his own injury and at times appeared to lack his full aggressiveness. I expect both will be up to full throttle next year.

 

[Largent80]

Oh, now anybody picking on play calling is lazy. G

Its not lazy its a fact, point in case the SB against NE. Why in the heck do you lock the most dangerous QB in the NFL to a must throw timing pattern to your #5 WR? Answer you don't you roll him out and let him run or pass or throw it away, but not Bevel. In that case the play calling sucked as it does more often than not. How in the heck is JG not #1 target and first read in the redzone? That's play calling and I can go on and on and on. Play calling is a huge issue in the redzone.

Atlanta threw the exact play at GB only from the left side, and it was a TD.

NE executed the perfect D on that play, its simple.

 

[sdog1981]

As for Jimmy, you do realize he was an option on many red zone plays, don't you? Double or triple bracket coverage against him left safer targets to others in Russ' mind.

Jimmy has been a mandatory double team since 2011. So the argument holds no water considering he has had double digit TDs in 3 out of his 4 years as a number one target with the Saints.

 

[Siouxhawk]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

 

[sdog1981]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

You would have to show red zone targets and red zone passing play percentage for that to be true.

 

[Anthony!]

Oh, now anybody picking on play calling is lazy. G

Its not lazy its a fact, point in case the SB against NE. Why in the heck do you lock the most dangerous QB in the NFL to a must throw timing pattern to your #5 WR? Answer you don't you roll him out and let him run or pass or throw it away, but not Bevel. In that case the play calling sucked as it does more often than not. How in the heck is JG not #1 target and first read in the redzone? That's play calling and I can go on and on and on. Play calling is a huge issue in the redzone.

Atlanta threw the exact play at GB only from the left side, and it was a TD.

NE executed the perfect D on that play, its simple.

Yeah but not with their #5 wr, and they did not have a much smaller WR trying to pick a much bigger CB sorry but not apples to apples there. Also they were not bunched up they used space to make it harder to read and harder to stop again play calling and design.

 

[Siouxhawk]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

You would have to show red zone targets and red zone passing play percentage for that to be true.

Jimmy was No. 3 on the Hawks in targets behind Doug and PRich the last 4 weeks of the season, so that indicates he's seeing his fair share of chances.

 

[irfuben32]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

You would have to show red zone targets and red zone passing play percentage for that to be true.

Jimmy was No. 3 on the Hawks in targets behind Doug and PRich the last 4 weeks of the season, so that indicates he's seeing his fair share of chances.

I would disagree. Our 9 Million dollar a year TE should be #1 in targets.

I am glad the article brings up that play against the Cardinals with JG blocking at the end of the line. I was screaming at the TV. If you split Graham out wide there you force them to put one probably two people out in coverage. Those guys aren't rushing the passer. (If they only put one on him you just have him post up or run a slant for what should be an easy TD).

That being said it looks to me like Russell could have laid it over the top to Richardson for a TD. I think Russell is being a little too hesitant with is reads. He needs to get his swagger back.

 

[Siouxhawk]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

You would have to show red zone targets and red zone passing play percentage for that to be true.

Jimmy was No. 3 on the Hawks in targets behind Doug and PRich the last 4 weeks of the season, so that indicates he's seeing his fair share of chances.

I would disagree. Our 9 Million dollar a year TE should be #1 in targets.

I am glad the article brings up that play against the Cardinals with JG blocking at the end of the line. I was screaming at the TV. If you split Graham out wide there you force them to put one probably two people out in coverage. Those guys aren't rushing the passer. (If they only put one on him you just have him post up or run a slant for what should be an easy TD).

That being said it looks to me like Russell could have laid it over the top to Richardson for a TD. I think Russell is being a little too hesitant with is reads. He needs to get his swagger back.

Doug was also open for a back shoulder throw touchdown on the play. And you are right about Russ having the faith to pull the trigger more. I think that will be his next surge in development going forward.

 

[Anthony!]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

You would have to show red zone targets and red zone passing play percentage for that to be true.

Jimmy was No. 3 on the Hawks in targets behind Doug and PRich the last 4 weeks of the season, so that indicates he's seeing his fair share of chances.

I would disagree. Our 9 Million dollar a year TE should be #1 in targets.

I am glad the article brings up that play against the Cardinals with JG blocking at the end of the line. I was screaming at the TV. If you split Graham out wide there you force them to put one probably two people out in coverage. Those guys aren't rushing the passer. (If they only put one on him you just have him post up or run a slant for what should be an easy TD).

That being said it looks to me like Russell could have laid it over the top to Richardson for a TD. I think Russell is being a little too hesitant with is reads. He needs to get his swagger back.

To do that he needs to get healthy, and feel like he does not have to look over his shoulder every second.

 

[Uncle Si]

Do we want the TE to be the #1 target though? Was JG at New Orleans? Was Gronk, Gates or Gonzales? (legit question, i do not know)

 

[Seymour]

Do we want the TE to be the #1 target though? Was JG at New Orleans? Was Gronk, Gates or Gonzales? (legit question, i do not know)

The actual progression will depend on the look that the D gives plus down & distance. But generally overall, follow the $$ and that in general should be the target number in progression (simplified version).

 

[Uncle Si]

Do we want the TE to be the #1 target though? Was JG at New Orleans? Was Gronk, Gates or Gonzales? (legit question, i do not know)

The actual progression will depend on the look that the D gives plus down & distance. But generally overall, follow the $$ and that in general should be the target number in progression (simplified version).

I meant more in terms of offensive efficiency...

 

[Hawks46]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

You do realize that Jermaine Kearse was targetted 3 times as much in the red zone as Jimmy Graham, right ? Also, Russ set a career high in attempts last year. It's not proportional.

On a side note, this is getting interesting. We have a thread about Seahawks Red Zone woes, and on one hand we have Anthony! who would abdicate Wilson if he killed a family member and have the smoking gun in his hand, and on the other hand we have Siouxhawk, who I'm pretty sure is related to Bevell. :duel: :3-1: :beach:

 

[Siouxhawk]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

You do realize that Jermaine Kearse was targetted 3 times as much in the red zone as Jimmy Graham, right ? Also, Russ set a career high in attempts last year. It's not proportional.

On a side note, this is getting interesting. We have a thread about Seahawks Red Zone woes, and on one hand we have Anthony! who would abdicate Wilson if he killed a family member and have the smoking gun in his hand, and on the other hand we have Siouxhawk, who I'm pretty sure is related to Bevell. :duel: :3-1: :beach:

Not related to Bev, but thanks for asking.

Sure, Kearse got the red zone targets, but that's because he was the one primarily in single coverage. And for whatever reason, Russ and him had a hard time connecting. If they would've clicked, obviously our red zone efficiency would be much better.

 

[chris98251]

And the prolific passing Saints saw Brees throwing the ball 250 more times a season, so of course Jimmy had more chances for touchdowns. But the Saints had a totally different offensive philosophy than us, so it doesn't really relate.
His numbers will come up a bit next season, but Doug, Lockett, Richardson and maybe Willson also will rightfully get their fair share of targets and the run game should be better, so Jimmy naturally won't see the kind of targets he had with the Saints

You do realize that Jermaine Kearse was targetted 3 times as much in the red zone as Jimmy Graham, right ? Also, Russ set a career high in attempts last year. It's not proportional.

On a side note, this is getting interesting. We have a thread about Seahawks Red Zone woes, and on one hand we have Anthony! who would abdicate Wilson if he killed a family member and have the smoking gun in his hand, and on the other hand we have Siouxhawk, who I'm pretty sure is related to Bevell. :duel: :3-1: :beach:

Not related to Bev, but thanks for asking.

Sure, Kearse got the red zone targets, but that's because he was the one primarily in single coverage. And for whatever reason, Russ and him had a hard time connecting. If they would've clicked, obviously our red zone efficiency would be much better.

Of course he is not related. He is "The Bev", spends to much time here arguing with us not to fire him when he should be working on game plans and schemes with the playbook.

We now know the reason our offense suck. It's .Nets fault !!!