Seahawks Redzone

[Seymour]

Beast wide open running to the left. If they weren't going to run it with him, they should have thrown it to him.

You must be forgetting Bevs golden rule. Take the highest paid player on offense and make him a decoy.

 

[hawknation2017]

It's also not evidence that just because Lockette didn't come through in this instance, that he wasn't the right player on the roster to run that route. This was something that was determined in all those hours leading up to the game.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. :2thumbs:

:snack:

Were you at practice so that you can refute that?

Were you? He was the worst receiver on the roster -- if you can even call him that, since he was mostly on the team for special teams purposes.

But keep beating that dead horse. Because I'm sure Doug Baldwin, despite all of his experience in the red zone, would have attacked the ball in the same manner.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Oh my god okay lets play the game no it was not Lockettes fault it was the play call, the throw, Kearse, the oline they all did not execute right. Oh and its not Kearse's fault it is LOckettes, Wilson, Oline and Bevel they did not call or execute right, etc etc, Hmm well I guess it was no ones fault no accountability for anything at all ever. Sarcasm Off.

Everyone has to shoulder some of the blame on the play and that's the reality I inhabit. This is true of every play - success or failure isn't down to 1 person (not even RW magic happens through his effort alone). Dragging the OC and his sycophants to the table to eat a share of the blame is impossible. And it's not borne out of any meaningful deep analysis, it's a defensive reaction to the possibility of eating 100% of the blame and dealing with the possibility that your respective team crush isn't the best there ever was.

Why people are so ridiculously partisan in nature to where the team's warts lie is baffling to me but it exists.

I'm a huge fan of RW but he has his warts - yet you resist any blame assigned to him because you view it as 100% blame
Souixhawk does this with Bevell
Other people do it with the defense.
Some do it with Pete.

Loyalty to one specific person on the team isn't getting you paid or laid so why hold on to it?

This whole diatribe of yours, which you've written before, in trying to pinpoint blame is quite baffling to me. What is your endgame there?

I can tell you that no coach or player with an ounce of self-respect will grovel to any disillusioned fan about their performance if they gave it everything they had in the pursuit of a win. To expect anything less is bizarre, quite frankly.

In that vein, I do believe we have a staff that will lead us to another Super Bowl win within 3 years and I'm highly motivated by that. That's where my loyalty lies. It will be a fun process and I'm looking forward to it.

 

[Siouxhawk]

It's also not evidence that just because Lockette didn't come through in this instance, that he wasn't the right player on the roster to run that route. This was something that was determined in all those hours leading up to the game.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. :2thumbs:

:snack:

Were you at practice so that you can refute that?

Were you? He was the worst receiver on the roster -- if you can even call him that, since he was mostly on the team for special teams purposes.

But keep beating that dead horse. Because I'm sure Doug Baldwin, despite all of his experience in the red zone, would have attacked the ball in the same manner.

You need to understand the NFL better, because that's not how it works. You call a play number and the personnel package is already built into the play. The determination to have Ricardo in there was set well before the fact. Maybe you could make a switch during a timeout, but we didn't take one there.

 

[Uncle Si]

By that logic, Sioux, it makes the play call at that time even more baffling.

You are very firm in that this was not a play call or design issue but an execution issue. That's all well and good. But that's also why the play itself was so absurd.

You have to play to your strengths. That play call was not one of them.

 

[mrt144]

And being to back-to-back Super Bowls (I believe we're still talking about 49) and winning one proves without a doubt that the coaching preparation vs. player development balance was in full harmony. You don't get to that point if it's not.

They had something that worked with the relative talents they had at that point of time. Player turnover happens and its been a choppy ride to getting back to that spot of harmony. I don't know how robust the Seahawks (or any NFL team's) overall offensive philosophy is to talent changes but this year was worse than last year and there are obvious personnel changes and injuries that hampered them along the way.

We can lighten the burden of DB some because it is hard to see 30 other NFL teams finding success with many of those injuries. What is it about the Pats that they can seemingly live without a key piece and go from good to great when he comes back? And Gronk is out for the season, still made the SB - It seems their way of doing things is robust enough to weather the storm of personnel deficiencies, either intrinsic or injury. To me it seems that the Seahawks way is also successful but much more brittle to talent gaps. And that is something either JS should look at through player acquisition or DB and PC should look at through their packages and play designs and play calls as the game progresses and they have an inkling of how our team is matching up against the opposition.

And if they are already doing those things and this is best effort then its time to just admit they are wildly successful but don't have all the answers all the time and we will see ugly offensive games.

 

[hawknation2017]

It's probably true that Lockette could have gone stronger to the ball. But the problem here is not how Lockette played in that situation. The problem here is that Lockette was in that situation to begin with, and Bevell was the person who put him there.

http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2015/2/2/79 ... n-playcall

 

[mrt144]

Oh my god okay lets play the game no it was not Lockettes fault it was the play call, the throw, Kearse, the oline they all did not execute right. Oh and its not Kearse's fault it is LOckettes, Wilson, Oline and Bevel they did not call or execute right, etc etc, Hmm well I guess it was no ones fault no accountability for anything at all ever. Sarcasm Off.

Everyone has to shoulder some of the blame on the play and that's the reality I inhabit. This is true of every play - success or failure isn't down to 1 person (not even RW magic happens through his effort alone). Dragging the OC and his sycophants to the table to eat a share of the blame is impossible. And it's not borne out of any meaningful deep analysis, it's a defensive reaction to the possibility of eating 100% of the blame and dealing with the possibility that your respective team crush isn't the best there ever was.

Why people are so ridiculously partisan in nature to where the team's warts lie is baffling to me but it exists.

I'm a huge fan of RW but he has his warts - yet you resist any blame assigned to him because you view it as 100% blame
Souixhawk does this with Bevell
Other people do it with the defense.
Some do it with Pete.

Loyalty to one specific person on the team isn't getting you paid or laid so why hold on to it?

This whole diatribe of yours, which you've written before, in trying to pinpoint blame is quite baffling to me. What is your endgame there?

I can tell you that no coach or player with an ounce of self-respect will grovel to any disillusioned fan about their performance if they gave it everything they had in the pursuit of a win. To expect anything less is bizarre, quite frankly.

In that vein, I do believe we have a staff that will lead us to another Super Bowl win within 3 years and I'm highly motivated by that. That's where my loyalty lies. It will be a fun process and I'm looking forward to it.

My endgame is to get respective people to decapitate their sacred cows on the team so they aren't insufferable to the point that I would rather get my dick lopped off than visit Seahawks.net.

 

[nash72]

The playcall was so legendarily bad that its still effecting the team 2 years afterwards.

 

[West TX Hawk]

It's also not evidence that just because Lockette didn't come through in this instance, that he wasn't the right player on the roster to run that route. This was something that was determined in all those hours leading up to the game.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA. :2thumbs:

:snack:

Were you at practice so that you can refute that?

You sure as hell weren't there. But keep it up. To not even acknowledge that Bevell, like all coaches, has made serious mistakes means your arguments continue to lack credibility.

When the championship or the season is on the line, you go down with your very best player. You don't screw around and gamble on the element of surprise-you give it to who brought you here and the chips will fall as they will. Joe Maddon brought in Chapman with the Series on the line and do you think anyone would be second-guessing him if the Cubs had lost? No-he put his very best in and the results were what they were. Chapman struggled but no one faults the decision.

Having the chance at a dynasty fall on a player with 18 career receptions is absolutely imbecilic. The team has never been the same since. That single play has illustrated everything wrong with Bevell as well as Pete's negative attributes.

 

[Siouxhawk]

The team has never been the same since?

This is garbage. It's a trash statement because the only measuring stick in some of your world's of unrealistic expectations is a Super Bowl title.

We are just 2 years removed from a Super Bowl and have remained in the upper echelon of the league every season since, only to fall short due to injuries and an offensive line that has struggled with consistency. If you want to use a NASCAR analogy, we start in the first 2 or 3 rows every season while some teams like the Colts and Saints have fallen way back in the grid. This doesn't even include lap traffic teams like the Browns and 49ers.

A comparison was made to the Patriots. Well, you people do realize that 51 only gives New England one more appearance than the Hawks this decade? So if Super Bowl appearances are your barometer, I'd say we're just a notch behind them and when they lose Brady to retirement, I actually believe we'll have more rings than them this decade (I figure they lose Sunday to Atlanta). So, yeah, our coaching staff is at least equal to what they have.

I've said elsewhere that Russ is on the verge of taking that next phase in his development of anticipating open players with the pass and being able to have faith to pull the trigger on those plays. That will be a great help in the red zone, similar to what Matthews did on the last play of the first half of 49. Expect more of that.

 

[hawkfan68]

The team has never been the same since?

This is garbage. It's a trash statement because the only measuring stick in some of your world's of unrealistic expectations is a Super Bowl title.

We are just 2 years removed from a Super Bowl and have remained in the upper echelon of the league every season since, only to fall short due to injuries and an offensive line that has struggled with consistency. If you want to use a NASCAR analogy, we start in the first 2 or 3 rows every season while some teams like the Colts and Saints have fallen way back in the grid. This doesn't even include lap traffic teams like the Browns and 49ers.

A comparison was made to the Patriots. Well, you people do realize that 51 only gives New England one more appearance than the Hawks this decade? So if Super Bowl appearances are your barometer, I'd say we're just a notch behind them and when they lose Brady to retirement, I actually believe we'll have more rings than them this decade (I figure they lose Sunday to Atlanta). So, yeah, our coaching staff is at least equal to what they have.

I've said elsewhere that Russ is on the verge of taking that next phase in his development of anticipating open players with the pass and being able to have faith to pull the trigger on those plays. That will be a great help in the red zone, similar to what Matthews did on the last play of the first half of 49. Expect more of that.

You're correct the Pats have one more SB appearance than the Seahawks but 3 is still greater than 2. Plus the Pats have been to the AFCCG each year since 2011. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2011.htm

Have the Seahawks? Patriots have dominated the AFC. The Seahawks have had a great run of making the playoffs and prior to the last two seasons, they were making it to the SB. I'm happy the Seahawks are a very good team, I feel they can do better though. I hope next season they get back to Superbowl contending/winning form that they are capable of. The past two years they made it to the divisional round. With a core like the Seahawks have, they should be in the NFC championship game each year. That's not unrealistic at all. RW used to say "Why not us"...if the Pats are doing it then why not Seahawks?

My belief is that Belicheck holds his team- coaches and players accountable. He holds them to a high standards and expects that level of commitment from them. The standard seems to be higher there than what it seems to be here. Pete, IMO, is not holding his team as accountable. How long would Cable, Bevell, Richards lasted under Bill B? Probably not this long.

 

[Anthony!]

Oh my god okay lets play the game no it was not Lockettes fault it was the play call, the throw, Kearse, the oline they all did not execute right. Oh and its not Kearse's fault it is LOckettes, Wilson, Oline and Bevel they did not call or execute right, etc etc, Hmm well I guess it was no ones fault no accountability for anything at all ever. Sarcasm Off.

Everyone has to shoulder some of the blame on the play and that's the reality I inhabit. This is true of every play - success or failure isn't down to 1 person (not even RW magic happens through his effort alone). Dragging the OC and his sycophants to the table to eat a share of the blame is impossible. And it's not borne out of any meaningful deep analysis, it's a defensive reaction to the possibility of eating 100% of the blame and dealing with the possibility that your respective team crush isn't the best there ever was.

Why people are so ridiculously partisan in nature to where the team's warts lie is baffling to me but it exists.

I'm a huge fan of RW but he has his warts - yet you resist any blame assigned to him because you view it as 100% blame
Souixhawk does this with Bevell
Other people do it with the defense.
Some do it with Pete.

Loyalty to one specific person on the team isn't getting you paid or laid so why hold on to it?

Dude did you read all my post or jusr this one. You obviously missed the post where I said "Now don't get me wrong I agree Lockette hesitated he also ran the route wrong which makes me wonder if they did practice it he did not cut across, he angles across taking him deeper towards the CB, Kearse did not get his jam, Wilson should have tried to hold back, or throw it into the ground"

Notice the part where I said Wilson should have throw it into the ground or held up. I am guessing not, so your post became well irrelevant, as I placed blame on Wilson too.

 

[Siouxhawk]

The team has never been the same since?

This is garbage. It's a trash statement because the only measuring stick in some of your world's of unrealistic expectations is a Super Bowl title.

We are just 2 years removed from a Super Bowl and have remained in the upper echelon of the league every season since, only to fall short due to injuries and an offensive line that has struggled with consistency. If you want to use a NASCAR analogy, we start in the first 2 or 3 rows every season while some teams like the Colts and Saints have fallen way back in the grid. This doesn't even include lap traffic teams like the Browns and 49ers.

A comparison was made to the Patriots. Well, you people do realize that 51 only gives New England one more appearance than the Hawks this decade? So if Super Bowl appearances are your barometer, I'd say we're just a notch behind them and when they lose Brady to retirement, I actually believe we'll have more rings than them this decade (I figure they lose Sunday to Atlanta). So, yeah, our coaching staff is at least equal to what they have.

I've said elsewhere that Russ is on the verge of taking that next phase in his development of anticipating open players with the pass and being able to have faith to pull the trigger on those plays. That will be a great help in the red zone, similar to what Matthews did on the last play of the first half of 49. Expect more of that.

You're correct the Pats have one more SB appearance than the Seahawks but 3 is still greater than 2. Plus the Pats have been to the AFCCG each year since 2011. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2011.htm

Have the Seahawks? Patriots have dominated the AFC. The Seahawks have had a great run of making the playoffs and prior to the last two seasons, they were making it to the SB. I'm happy the Seahawks are a very good team, I feel they can do better though. I hope next season they get back to Superbowl contending/winning form that they are capable of. The past two years they made it to the divisional round. With a core like the Seahawks have, they should be in the NFC championship game each year. That's not unrealistic at all. RW used to say "Why not us"...if the Pats are doing it then why not Seahawks?

No, no, no, the barometer and only passing grade is a Super Bowl around here. That's what I've read over and over by the entitled fair-weather ones. Anything short of that is a fail, right?

And as I said, I expect we'll have at least one more title in the next three years. The players and coaching staff is way too talented to not let that happen.

 

[West TX Hawk]

The team has never been the same since?

This is garbage. It's a trash statement because the only measuring stick in some of your world's of unrealistic expectations is a Super Bowl title.

Ah, playing the Superfan card are we? You cannot objectively examine this team and not see the visual frustration in players and coaches and public dismay made by certain players who openly question the rationale and philosophy of plays and tell me this current team carries the same spirit as of before.

It doesn't take much for players to no longer trust a rah rah approach or begin to question a philosophy that apparently lacks accountability for its coaches but demands an "I'm in" mantra for the players risking their livelihood each week.

When Carroll himself admitted that one of the major problems with our '15 season was the "hangover" and frustration with the SB loss, that should clue you in there was much internal strife. When you see one of the leaders on this team the following season publicly bashing the OC that leads to the further conclusion there is much more going on internally that we've only begun to see.

This team is unfortunately not the same and since this thread was originally about the redzone, I'd offer that our porous RZ efficiency and lack of use of our RZ weapon all has contributed to our 10-6ish seasons the last 2 years. We have a long way to go to get back to the culture and powerful team we had in 2013.

 

[Siouxhawk]

The team has never been the same since?

This is garbage. It's a trash statement because the only measuring stick in some of your world's of unrealistic expectations is a Super Bowl title.

Ah, playing the Superfan card are we? You cannot objectively examine this team and not see the visual frustration in players and coaches and public dismay made by certain players who openly question the rationale and philosophy of plays and tell me this current team carries the same spirit as of before.

It doesn't take much for players to no longer trust a rah rah approach or begin to question a philosophy that apparently lacks accountability for its coaches but demands an "I'm in" mantra for the players risking their livelihood each week.

When Carroll himself admitted that one of the major problems with our '15 season was the "hangover" and frustration with the SB loss, that should clue you in there was much internal strife. When you see one of the leaders on this team the following season publicly bashing the OC that leads to the further conclusion there is much more going on internally that we've only begun to see.

This team is unfortunately not the same and since this thread was originally about the redzone, I'd offer that our porous RZ efficiency and lack of use of our RZ weapon all has contributed to our 10-6ish seasons the last 2 years. We have a long way to go to get back to the culture and powerful team we had in 2013.

Once again, your story is falsely exaggerated because you want to perpetuate the myth.

You act like there's some deep locker room schism. I've got news for you -- there isn't. Even your comment about Sherman bashing Bevell in public is hogwash. His sideline tantrum had to do with the decision to throw the ball to Jimmy when we were at the 1, a pass that was nearly intercepted. That's all you heard from Sherm on that matter. He had other outbursts during the season, but not on that matter. And after Pete's sit-down with him, I don't think we'll see a repeat performance of that.

As far as Pete's philosophy, I'm certainly hoping it doesn't change (it won't) as I fully believe in it. We still have a fortified core of veterans that make us instant contenders. I believe Russ will also make another big leap in his development as a complete player, a maturity, that coupled with his speed, will show up prominently in the red zone. Our offensive line is bound to get better and we'll have Earl back.

This is the best time ever to be alive as a Seahawks fan and I'm enjoying the ride. It's just too bad that there are others out there who are just so critical that they can't enjoy the experience. But to each his own, I guess.

 

[West TX Hawk]

The team has never been the same since?

This is garbage. It's a trash statement because the only measuring stick in some of your world's of unrealistic expectations is a Super Bowl title.

We are just 2 years removed from a Super Bowl and have remained in the upper echelon of the league every season since, only to fall short due to injuries and an offensive line that has struggled with consistency. If you want to use a NASCAR analogy, we start in the first 2 or 3 rows every season while some teams like the Colts and Saints have fallen way back in the grid. This doesn't even include lap traffic teams like the Browns and 49ers.

A comparison was made to the Patriots. Well, you people do realize that 51 only gives New England one more appearance than the Hawks this decade? So if Super Bowl appearances are your barometer, I'd say we're just a notch behind them and when they lose Brady to retirement, I actually believe we'll have more rings than them this decade (I figure they lose Sunday to Atlanta). So, yeah, our coaching staff is at least equal to what they have.

I've said elsewhere that Russ is on the verge of taking that next phase in his development of anticipating open players with the pass and being able to have faith to pull the trigger on those plays. That will be a great help in the red zone, similar to what Matthews did on the last play of the first half of 49. Expect more of that.

You're correct the Pats have one more SB appearance than the Seahawks but 3 is still greater than 2. Plus the Pats have been to the AFCCG each year since 2011. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2011.htm

Have the Seahawks? Patriots have dominated the AFC. The Seahawks have had a great run of making the playoffs and prior to the last two seasons, they were making it to the SB. I'm happy the Seahawks are a very good team, I feel they can do better though. I hope next season they get back to Superbowl contending/winning form that they are capable of. The past two years they made it to the divisional round. With a core like the Seahawks have, they should be in the NFC championship game each year. That's not unrealistic at all. RW used to say "Why not us"...if the Pats are doing it then why not Seahawks?

No, no, no, the barometer and only passing grade is a Super Bowl around here. That's what I've read over and over by the entitled fair-weather ones. Anything short of that is a fail, right?

Yep, only you are a truly dedicated Seahawk fan. Well forget the rest of us that have followed the team since Patera and Knox and want simply what is best for this organization.

 

[Siouxhawk]

The team has never been the same since?

This is garbage. It's a trash statement because the only measuring stick in some of your world's of unrealistic expectations is a Super Bowl title.

We are just 2 years removed from a Super Bowl and have remained in the upper echelon of the league every season since, only to fall short due to injuries and an offensive line that has struggled with consistency. If you want to use a NASCAR analogy, we start in the first 2 or 3 rows every season while some teams like the Colts and Saints have fallen way back in the grid. This doesn't even include lap traffic teams like the Browns and 49ers.

A comparison was made to the Patriots. Well, you people do realize that 51 only gives New England one more appearance than the Hawks this decade? So if Super Bowl appearances are your barometer, I'd say we're just a notch behind them and when they lose Brady to retirement, I actually believe we'll have more rings than them this decade (I figure they lose Sunday to Atlanta). So, yeah, our coaching staff is at least equal to what they have.

I've said elsewhere that Russ is on the verge of taking that next phase in his development of anticipating open players with the pass and being able to have faith to pull the trigger on those plays. That will be a great help in the red zone, similar to what Matthews did on the last play of the first half of 49. Expect more of that.

You're correct the Pats have one more SB appearance than the Seahawks but 3 is still greater than 2. Plus the Pats have been to the AFCCG each year since 2011. http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/2011.htm

Have the Seahawks? Patriots have dominated the AFC. The Seahawks have had a great run of making the playoffs and prior to the last two seasons, they were making it to the SB. I'm happy the Seahawks are a very good team, I feel they can do better though. I hope next season they get back to Superbowl contending/winning form that they are capable of. The past two years they made it to the divisional round. With a core like the Seahawks have, they should be in the NFC championship game each year. That's not unrealistic at all. RW used to say "Why not us"...if the Pats are doing it then why not Seahawks?

No, no, no, the barometer and only passing grade is a Super Bowl around here. That's what I've read over and over by the entitled fair-weather ones. Anything short of that is a fail, right?

Yep, only you are a truly dedicated Seahawk fan. Well forget the rest of us that have followed the team since Patera and Knox and want simply what is best for this organization.

So what's best for the organization?

 

[Largent80]

Maybe we should open up a separate forum. The Im still not over SB 49 and never will be forum.

A sub forum could be the fire Bevell forum and a 3rd could be why the hell don't we throw the ball to Jimmy Graham?

That would clean up the main forum nicely so we could actually have meaningful discussion.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Maybe we should open up a separate forum. The Im still not over SB 49 and never will be forum.

A sub forum could be the fire Bevell forum and a 3rd could be why the hell don't we throw the ball to Jimmy Graham?

That would clean up the main forum nicely so we could actually have meaningful discussion.

I'd second all of those proposals.