SEC DPOTY: Michael Sam announced he is gay

[seahawk2k]

Aren't there out female athletes? I don't ever hear about any locker room shower issues in that regard. Then again, I don't pay a hell of a lot of attention to women's sports.

Its not like Michael Sam is the first gay NFL player, he's the first out player. Nothing has ever been said or even rumored about a gay player being erect or making a move or anything like that, ever. These are professionals, except Charles Haley, who was the exception to these. Charles Haley was/is insane.

 

[SonicHawk]

Are you suggesting that he needs to have his own bathroom because he might get attracted to another player?

Nope, don't care at all. Simply stating a fact of how I would be in a room of attractive naked girls.

I have a feeling in that situation you would stay in the corner and not get naked in front of them.

HA.

 

[nanomoz]

What if Sam had just said nothing and just lived openly without any announcement? What happens the first time a news team's camera catches him greeting his boyfriend? Do you trust the media to go, "Oh, that must be his boyfriend. They look like a nice couple. Now, let's go see if the coach has any insight into next week's gameplan."

Yeah, no... it's going to be a shitstorm. And if the team and his teammates have a media shitstorm thrust upon them, how's that going to play out? Not well.

So Sam's real options were either to be closeted and actively HIDE a part of his life (which hetero players simply don't have to do), or put it all in the open and let the chips fall where they may. It's not about him trying to shove his lifestyle down anyone's throat. It's about him making the only decision that would allow him to live his life without having to hide a secret while joining a profession that subjects him to loads of media attention. It's not only being true to himself, it's being fair to every team and potential teammate he might have in the NFL.

Thank you for this. It's amazing to me that so many chalk his coming out to selfishness or a desire for fame.

 

[JGfromtheNW]

What if Sam had just said nothing and just lived openly without any announcement? What happens the first time a news team's camera catches him greeting his boyfriend? Do you trust the media to go, "Oh, that must be his boyfriend. They look like a nice couple. Now, let's go see if the coach has any insight into next week's gameplan."

Yeah, no... it's going to be a shitstorm. And if the team and his teammates have a media shitstorm thrust upon them, how's that going to play out? Not well.

So Sam's real options were either to be closeted and actively HIDE a part of his life (which hetero players simply don't have to do), or put it all in the open and let the chips fall where they may. It's not about him trying to shove his lifestyle down anyone's throat. It's about him making the only decision that would allow him to live his life without having to hide a secret while joining a profession that subjects him to loads of media attention. It's not only being true to himself, it's being fair to every team and potential teammate he might have in the NFL.

Thank you for this. It's amazing to me that so many chalk his coming out to selfishness or a desire for fame.

Winning posts, indeed.

 

[brimsalabim]

I hope he makes it but he will have to have much thicker skin than Jonathan Martin and hopefully go to a team that doesn't have a Richie Incognito.

 

[randomation]

I hope he makes it but he will have to have much thicker skin than Jonathan Martin and hopefully go to a team that doesn't have a Richie Incognito.

Martin wasn't even gay, look at the report it wasn't a lack of mental strength its that literally everyone was ripping on him including his coach I would not be surprised to see the Dolphins coaching staff blown up over this what went on was absurd. Honestly in his position it took mental strength not to either beat Incognito's head in or to come back and well shoot up the place.

 

[joeseahawks]

Based on this report and some of the comments attributed to some GMs in the league in regards to the Michael Sam issue, the NFL Locker rooms are like a jungle, where some "War Lords" impose their rules on the rest of the crew.
At my company, every year, I have to certify business ethics guideline document, which tell me how I need to behave in an ethically responsible way and protect the image of the company.
In the NFL, some "veterans" rule the locker room, telling people what to do and not do, based on their own "personal feelings". In the meantime, the organization Goodell runs, can't even abide by some basic ethics rules.
When we add to that Bounty gate in New Orleans ... I think it is clear, the NFL needs a shake up.
This is simply unacceptable.

 

[brimsalabim]

I hope he makes it but he will have to have much thicker skin than Jonathan Martin and hopefully go to a team that doesn't have a Richie Incognito.

Martin wasn't even gay, look at the report it wasn't a lack of mental strength its that literally everyone was ripping on him including his coach I would not be surprised to see the Dolphins coaching staff blown up over this what went on was absurd. Honestly in his position it took mental strength not to either beat Incognito's head in or to come back and well shoot up the place.

Actually the report said that Martin lacked a "balanced mental state" but that's not the issue here nor is his sexual preference. The point I am making is that some things will get said to Sam in his own locker room and by other players on the field attempting to get into his head. For this reason he is going to have to be mentally tougher than other players have to be if he wants to play pro ball. It's not fair but it is fact.

 

[kearly]

Had a gay teammate on my college baseball team, the first day was awkward because you think that he's checking out our genitalia. Then you realize that this guys here to play ball not find someone to bang and how ridiculous your first thoughts were. He's just a guy who when he's not playing baseball hangs out with his boyfriend instead of me who hung out with my girlfriend.

This is the same kind of thinking that prevented female journalists for years from coming into a locker room.

Salient points. I wonder though, when will we have male journalists going into female locker rooms?

It's good that you got over it. But shouldn't the discomfort of others in the locker room be considered / weighted in some fashion? I really hate how this is being portrayed as a black or white issue. This ain't Jackie Robinson, there are biological / neurological elements in play here. Natural aversions, not learned ones. For some, phobias.

I think gay athletes can work so long as the locker room is controlled. But what if you have an Incognito type in there? It's certainly possible that this could be a smooth transition for Sam, but even if it is, it's a sample size of one. There are going to be homophobes and bigots in NFL locker rooms that will not take this lightly. And I don't think that will ever change unless we biologically engineer heterosexual males to be 100% comfortable around gays.

 

[kearly]

Here's a crazy fact... Many NFL players have already showered with a gay teammate at least some point in their life... They may not have known that someone was gay.

This is clearly a case of "What you don't know can't hurt you." If you found proof that your neighbor of 30 years was a serial killer, would you feel just as good going to bed that night as you did the day before?

The statistical odds are almost 100% that any given NFL locker room will have at least 1 gay man in it. But it's not a problem because it's not on the players consciousness. Out of sight, out of mind. Kind of like how every potato chip you eat is leading to a future heart attack, but nobody cares because it's not front and center in your consciousness.

Sam deserves a chance to play, but I really don't like how people pretend this is a simple, right / wrong issue. It's pretty complicated, and I think compromise should not be hissed at.

If that means having a separate changing / showering area options for heteros that are uncomfortable with a gay teammate, what's so terrible about that? Seems reasonable to me. There might be some division in the locker room, but IMO a degree of isolation is inevitable with a gay football player anyway. Mike-Rob doesn't strike me as a homophobe, but he said himself that he knows a lot of NFL players that don't even want to be seen around gay dudes, don't want to be photographed with them. There are also others who may have religious objections over the lifestyle. If you bring in an openly gay player, you have to accept at least a degree of splintering. So it's best to be prepared for it and make sure the players know that mistreatment will not be tolerated, but also letting those who have fears/issues know that they will not be forced into uncomfortable situations.

Let's not forget either that the culture of NFL locker rooms, young male culture, and black culture isn't exactly gay friendly. This is going to be a challenge. To throw Sam into one of these cauldrons without proper thought and preparation does him and all future openly gay athletes a disservice.

 

[Yxes1122]

Here's a crazy fact... Many NFL players have already showered with a gay teammate at least some point in their life... They may not have known that someone was gay.

This is clearly a case of "What you don't know can't hurt you." If you found proof that your neighbor of 30 years was a serial killer, would you feel just as good going to bed that night as you did the day before?

The statistical odds are almost 100% that any given NFL locker room will have at least 1 gay man in it. But it's not a problem because it's not on the players consciousness. Out of sight, out of mind. Kind of like how every potato chip you eat is leading to a future heart attack, but nobody cares because it's not front and center in your consciousness.

Sam deserves a chance to play, but I really don't like how people pretend this is a simple, right / wrong issue. It's pretty complicated, and I think compromise should not be hissed at.

If that means having a separate changing / showering area options for heteros that are uncomfortable with a gay teammate, what's so terrible about that? Seems reasonable to me. There might be some division in the locker room, but IMO a degree of isolation is inevitable with a gay football player anyway. Mike-Rob doesn't strike me as a homophobe, but he said himself that he knows a lot of NFL players that don't even want to be seen around gay dudes, don't want to be photographed with them. There are also others who may have religious objections over the lifestyle. If you bring in an openly gay player, you have to accept at least a degree of splintering. So it's best to be prepared for it and make sure the players know that mistreatment will not be tolerated, but also letting those who have fears/issues know that they will not be forced into uncomfortable situations.

Let's not forget either that the culture of NFL locker rooms, young male culture, and black culture isn't exactly gay friendly. This is going to be a challenge. To throw Sam into one of these cauldrons without proper thought and preparation does him and all future openly gay athletes a disservice.

I think the added issue is the questions the media will throw at his teammates. "How has it been having a gay player in the locker room?" "How do feel about it?" And unfortunately, I think that will really make the transition harder. I applaud Sam for doing what he thinks is right, but there are consequences to everything. The media, while constantly preaching "sensitivity", is one of the most insensitive industries out there. And those questions aren't going to go away. How many times has the "What did you think when you drafted Russell in round three?" I would expect the "How do you feel about Sam?" questions to be the same.

 

[TestMo1337]

Here's a crazy fact... Many NFL players have already showered with a gay teammate at least some point in their life... They may not have known that someone was gay.

This is clearly a case of "What you don't know can't hurt you." If you found proof that your neighbor of 30 years was a serial killer, would you feel just as good going to bed that night as you did the day before?

The statistical odds are almost 100% that any given NFL locker room will have at least 1 gay man in it. But it's not a problem because it's not on the players consciousness. Out of sight, out of mind. Kind of like how every potato chip you eat is leading to a future heart attack, but nobody cares because it's not front and center in your consciousness.

Sam deserves a chance to play, but I really don't like how people pretend this is a simple, right / wrong issue. It's pretty complicated, and I think compromise should not be hissed at.

If that means having a separate changing / showering area options for heteros that are uncomfortable with a gay teammate, what's so terrible about that? Seems reasonable to me. There might be some division in the locker room, but IMO a degree of isolation is inevitable with a gay football player anyway. Mike-Rob doesn't strike me as a homophobe, but he said himself that he knows a lot of NFL players that don't even want to be seen around gay dudes, don't want to be photographed with them. There are also others who may have religious objections over the lifestyle. If you bring in an openly gay player, you have to accept at least a degree of splintering. So it's best to be prepared for it and make sure the players know that mistreatment will not be tolerated, but also letting those who have fears/issues know that they will not be forced into uncomfortable situations.

Let's not forget either that the culture of NFL locker rooms, young male culture, and black culture isn't exactly gay friendly. This is going to be a challenge. To throw Sam into one of these cauldrons without proper thought and preparation does him and all future openly gay athletes a disservice.

You lose all credibility when you even remotely equate the high probably that professional athletes have had worked with a closeted gay athlete already to a neighbor who is a serial killer. If I found out that my neighbor was a serial killer, I would call the cops. If I found out my neighbor/coworker/son/father/brother/best friend/distant relative/random acquaintance was gay, I wouldn't feel any different because them being gay has no ability to harm me. None what so ever.

I'm not afraid of that any of the gay men I know are going to suddenly assault, hurt, rape or sexually harass me just because we both happen to be men. Just as I am never concerned that a straight woman would do such a thing. To think otherwise shows the lack of exposure to how almost all gay men are just like straight men in how they interact with people on a regular basis. The idea that placing them in a locker room where people shower and dress suddenly strips them from being able to control themselves in any sexual manner is ridiculous. It's like equating all gay men to adolescent boys going through puberty where saying the word "boobies" would give them an unwanted erection.

The reason being you are equating someone's sexual preference to the complete lack of moral value to someone else life. Ridiculous that you could even make such a terrible comparison. Which is a real shame because you bring up some valid points.

I get that people would be afraid of the unknown, especially when the culture is allowed to live 30+ years behind everyone like the NFL. You know what the greatest counter to fear is? Education and exposure to something you've had no opportunity to face and then make a judgement call. So far, many pundits are all trying to walk the line of showing that they could accept it, but no one knows. Gay men are equated to being lesser men, weaker men, predatory men, perverted men, attention-seeking men and many other false descriptions. Straight men can be all of these things to... but yet every gay man seems to fit the spectrum because it's easy to chastise the unknown.

The main reason why it's not a problem is that gay men are probably professional enough to know that the NFL locker is not a place to pick up other dudes. Just as most professionals understand what constitutes sexual harassment and what does not. NFL players only have 10-15 minutes once they enter the locker room before the media is allowed access. Many use this time to quickly get ready so they are "absent" from the rush of media requests to talk about the game.

 

[kearly]

Hey now Sammy, you are taking me out of context and you don't need to. Last I checked I'm not a politician, I should be able to trust people to understand my meaning. I'm just here to have a discussion.

It is difficult to find the right analogy. To spell it out directly, I was only saying that when people are afraid of something, they will not be afraid of it if its presence is hidden.

I think we want the same thing, but where I differ from you is that I don't think this isn't about education or acceptance, but neurological wiring. Some guys just aren't going to feel comfortable being around gay guys, especially when naked. Some guys can handle it, some won't. It's not because they are afraid of anything happening. It's something else entirely. Most phobias are irrational but still difficult to conquer.

Further, almost everyone, players, coaches, execs, have predicted that there will be locker room fracturing. Some of that might be small mindedness, but some of that could be phobias and brain wiring too.

Even in a best case scenario, the media attention will be intense and this was often among the first concerns GMs cited.

You can really sense the hesitation by GMs, coaches and players. I seriously doubt they are gay-haters. But they know the realities of the NFL locker room culture, and the acute makeup of many of it's members. Many of them have stated that they think the NFL will be ready for a player like Michael Sam some day, they just aren't sure if that time is right now. There needs to be a pretty big culture change among the players and coaches, and as I've suggested already, it's possible that currently non-existing accommodations of some sort might be necessary as well.

This dilemma has never been about Michael Sam. It has been about how people might react to Michael Sam. This is uncharted territory with the closest thing being the military ban on don't ask don't tell a couple years back. But if you really think about it in great detail, there are some pretty big differences between the situations and the military was ironically more setup to handle openly gay soldiers than the NFL is for openly gay players in some aspects.

Full disclosure, I am left leaning and have supported minority / gay rights my entire life, and I vote in support of them in every election. I am rooting for Sam to succeed. But I think sometimes rooting for success means being measured and smart.

I think Sam forcing his way in like this is not the best way to break the barrier. When he came out to his teammates in Missouri, he had been there a while. They knew him. He had developed relationships and made friends. They had heard the rumors and were prepared to hear the truth. It wasn't a sudden shock to the system. He didn't cannonball his way in, he went in the water one toe at a time.

In the NFL it will be different. New locker room, new relationships, new culture, new status. You'll notice that no other NFL player or prospect has come out to join Sam. They've been there, they know. Maybe this ends up being all a bunch of fuss over nothing (wouldn't that be nice), but I would be kind of surprised by that given all the cards on the table right now.

I think the added issue is the questions the media will throw at his teammates. "How has it been having a gay player in the locker room?" "How do feel about it?" And unfortunately, I think that will really make the transition harder. I applaud Sam for doing what he thinks is right, but there are consequences to everything. The media, while constantly preaching "sensitivity", is one of the most insensitive industries out there. And those questions aren't going to go away. How many times has the "What did you think when you drafted Russell in round three?" I would expect the "How do you feel about Sam?" questions to be the same.

I think this a valid point, and shouldn't be overlooked. It could suck for Sam hearing his teammates field these kinds of questions all the time, for sure. I'm going to assume that Sam is prepared for it, but it could still be tough.

He will probably also hate this his identity will forever be that of a gay guy first, football player second. He will always be "the gay football player" (unless he dominates the NFL and becomes a huge star, but IMO that's very unlikely given his tools). I know if I were him, that designation would get old fast.

 

[joeseahawks]

Malcom Smith, Seahawks and SB MVP discusses Michael Sam on the NFL network.

Malcom Smith says: "Being gay has nothing to do with what's happening on the field. Players have too many other responsibilities on the field to worry about one guy. It is hard enough to be successful in the NFL, it is hard enough to make plays".

 

[IndyHawk]

Both the 49ers and Seahawks had prominent players speak out loudly against openly gay football players in their locker rooms. IIRC, it was Chris Clemons in Seattle. Granted, Clemons is probably gone this offseason, but there is obviously a homophobic culture at work in NFL locker rooms and black culture has famously done little to hide their distaste for it as well. The real question becomes, can a locker room handle it? There is a risk of distraction. That isn't Sam's fault, it's just the way the world works right now.

I'm very impressed by Michael Sam's courage. To make this announcement knowing that it could potentially jeopardize an NFL dream takes some serious guts. This isn't some first round talent. He's a mid-round guy, an DE who stands the same height as Nick Reed. Serious balls.

I actually kind of hope he isn't a Seahawk. It's so hard for mid-late round guys to make this team, and I don't want to hear accusations of homophobia when he's cut. Very much rooting for him to make history though.

I hope he isn't a Hawk also,there is too much that can happen with the locker room over this..What if say he had the "hots" for someone??That could play so many ways..I don't want anything that might screw up our repeat sorry..

 

[TestMo1337]

I hope he isn't a Hawk also,there is too much that can happen with the locker room over this..What if say he had the "hots" for someone??That could play so many ways..I don't want anything that might screw up our repeat sorry..

Here's a thought... it would be treated like any other relationship where you were attracted to a co-worker. If they were not available, nothing would happen. Being gay does not make you a predatory nor prone to sexual assault, just as most straight people aren't predatory.

Gay men are capable of controlling their attraction just like straight people are.

 

[Cartire]

I hope he isn't a Hawk also,there is too much that can happen with the locker room over this..What if say he had the "hots" for someone??That could play so many ways..I don't want anything that might screw up our repeat sorry..

Here's a thought... it would be treated like any other relationship where you were attracted to a co-worker. If they were not available, nothing would happen. Being gay does not make you a predatory nor prone to sexual assault, just as most straight people aren't predatory.

Gay men are capable of controlling their attraction just like straight people are.

So then you agree, all locker rooms and restroom facilities nationwide need to be coed.

 

[Lords of Scythia]

It'll be like the Mante Teo deal--after he gets drafted everybody will just move on and forget about it and play football. There's always been gay football players.

 

[gargantual]

I hope he isn't a Hawk also,there is too much that can happen with the locker room over this..What if say he had the "hots" for someone??That could play so many ways..I don't want anything that might screw up our repeat sorry..

Here's a thought... it would be treated like any other relationship where you were attracted to a co-worker. If they were not available, nothing would happen. Being gay does not make you a predatory nor prone to sexual assault, just as most straight people aren't predatory.

Gay men are capable of controlling their attraction just like straight people are.

So then you agree, all locker rooms and restroom facilities nationwide need to be coed.

This is a very good point. I was thinking that this is a very different situation then say a female reporter doing interviews in the locker room. It'd be my guess that many players would be uncomfortable if it was a female player showering with them, just as they would feel uncomfortable showering with a gay player of the same sex. Slightly different situation, but people should see what I'm trying to say.

Putting all the religious and other objections aside (which is really impossible, but we'll do so for the sake of furthering the argument), this is a VERY complicated issue that can't be simplified down to the black and white absolutes of it being simple bigotry and/or intolerance. And then one has to look at the simple reality of the situation. This is how the world is at this point (as sad as that may be) but it's going to take a period of adjustment, just like integrating the military was back when Truman ordered that to happen. For that reason (the biggest one among many) I applaud Michael Sam for exercising the courage to come out like this, which will pave the way for future gay players, but it's inevitable that there will be difficulties going forward right now. Anyone familiar with sports or military life knows that conformity is a big part of the equation and this may end up involving hazing and/or someone getting hurt.

I'm not in any way saying I approve of such intolerance, that it should be tolerated or that some team SHOULDN'T draft him (I tip my hat to the team that does), but it will bring about a level of distraction (both amongst the locker room and from the media) that will put the Michael Vick or Incognito situations to SHAME!

I'm still not sure that I would want our team to take on such a burden. Would that outweigh the potential advantage that his probably inevitable drop in the draft will make? I agree that our team is one of the few that would be best (better?) suited to handling that distraction, but I don't want it shooting us in the foot.

 

[TXHawkFan]

I've been watching the NFL Combine today and Michael Sam doesn't really have the qualities that Pete Carroll and John Schneider look for in a player. He's not particularly fast, strong, agile, or athletic and is fairly stiff when running the drills. He's strictly a situational pass rusher, at best, and lacks the explosiveness or versatility that Carroll covets in defenders. I doubt the Seahawks would draft him and could see him dropping to the late rounds, or even out of the draft, for reasons having little to do with his sexual orientation.