Seriously, what's with all the Dak Prescott love?

[MizzouHawkGal]

I get the NFL. They have to hype the Cowbutts. But why are people on here treating him like Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson rolled into one? It's the PRESEASON. He's a 4th round rookie. I'm not arguing he won't be good, but people seem to forget, Wilson's rise from 3rd rounder to top 5 QB is the exception, not the rule, and people weren't as high on Wilson when he steamrolled the Chiefs in the 3rd preseason game of 2012 as they are on Prescott right now, and Prescott's statline pales compared to Wilson that year. So what gives people?

People forget the reason he fell to round four was behavior issues.

Also

Prescott in three games: 78%, 9.1 yards/attempt, 5 to 0 int, 137.8 passer rating.

Wilson 2012 preseason in four games.: 63.5%, 8.5 yards/attempt, 5 to 1 int, 110.3 passer rating.


You actually have it in reverse: 2012 Wilson rookie preseason pales in comparison to Prescott rookie preseason. So that's probably why. Either way I agree that Wilson is probably going to be better when they both retire, but Prescott is not going to suck.

And this is a perfect example of why pure statistics are useless. The eye test tells a very different story and conclusion.

 

[chris98251]

Eye test on Prescott is a passing grade in the offense he is in, 4th round pick that can start as a rookie and only get better is a big win for any team.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Eye test on Prescott is a passing grade in the offense he is in, 4th round pick that can start as a rookie and only get better is a big win for any team.

Exactly. He's not chopped liver guys. But Dallas had nothing before. He's good not great. Wilson is great not good and proved it in college just like Lockett with no E.

 

[Zebulon Dak]

Dak is the future! Girls love a big Dak!

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Dak is the future! Girls love a big Dak!

:2thumbs:

You big, Dak honey? 8)

 

[dogorama]

Dak is the future! Girls love a big Dak!

:2thumbs:

You big, Dak honey? 8)

LMAO, I love it when you post late, an island in a sea of limp noodles.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Dak is the future! Girls love a big Dak!

:2thumbs:

You big, Dak honey? 8)

LMAO, I love it when you post late, an island in a sea of limp noodles.

:mrgreen:

Hehe :stirthepot:

Day off so I'm having fun and the Crappernick thing is awesome.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

I get the NFL. They have to hype the Cowbutts. But why are people on here treating him like Andrew Luck and Russell Wilson rolled into one? It's the PRESEASON. He's a 4th round rookie. I'm not arguing he won't be good, but people seem to forget, Wilson's rise from 3rd rounder to top 5 QB is the exception, not the rule, and people weren't as high on Wilson when he steamrolled the Chiefs in the 3rd preseason game of 2012 as they are on Prescott right now, and Prescott's statline pales compared to Wilson that year. So what gives people?

People forget the reason he fell to round four was behavior issues.

Also

Prescott in three games: 78%, 9.1 yards/attempt, 5 to 0 int, 137.8 passer rating.

Wilson 2012 preseason in four games.: 63.5%, 8.5 yards/attempt, 5 to 1 int, 110.3 passer rating.


You actually have it in reverse: 2012 Wilson rookie preseason pales in comparison to Prescott rookie preseason. So that's probably why. Either way I agree that Wilson is probably going to be better when they both retire, but Prescott is not going to suck.

And this is a perfect example of why pure statistics are useless. The eye test tells a very different story and conclusion.

Yeah, NOW, but in the 2012 preseason? Also, Prescott's game against arguably the best defense in the league is not a fair gauge to "eye test." He looked decent against Seattle. He looked really freaking good against St. Louis' and Miami's first string, though.

Anyway, I just now rewatched those 2012 preseason games and Wilson looked good, not great, just like you claim Prescott did. Wilson's first two drives were in the 2nd half against 2nd/3rd stringers of a bad Titans defense (32nd in points in 2012, 27th in yards). One of his first passes was nearly intercepted. The first ended in a touchdown pass caught by a tall Braylen Edwards. Other than that one deep pass which Edwards had to slow down for, the rest was dink and dunk in that first game. The second drive ended in a run short of the first down. Prescott was throwing on average further down the field, and still completing them, and had two fades on his first drive. He ended his first drive against he 1st string of a good Rams defense with a touchdown. He ended his second drive against that same 1st string defense the same way. They weren't stopped until penalties gave them a 2nd and 34, and on 3rd and 26 Prescott ran for most of it before sliding, moving them into fg range.

So, looking at their first games, they looked about the same (both looked very good), but Prescott played better by the eye test because his throws were more often medium range throws and from the pocket and against the first string of a good defense, while Wilson did far more dinking and dunking, with the exception of that one deep throw, against the backups of a bad defense.


Wilson's 2nd game was again against the backups, as he once again came off the bench. He started off looking uncomfortable in the pocket again, but after about 7 or 8 plays he finally threw a down field pass over the middle. He seemed to gain some confidence then, as he launched a deeper pass on the next throw, but it was slightly overthrown and the defender had over the top leverage. He then showed the one thing he was elite at right from the beginning, and ran for a first down after eluding a defender. Seattle scored on a hand off shortly after. The next drive Wilson continued to show a reluctance to stay in the pocket and throw the ball down the field, but his physical gifts were too great for that to matter, as he just ran for first downs after deciding not to throw from the pocket. Unfortunately that also got him sacked on the drive. The drive then ended in a punt. The next drive had a crossing route completed but thrown behind, followed by a Wilson scramble play after he once again decided to not step up in the pocket that resulted in an incompletion. At this point it was the 4th quarter and I wasn't going to watch him play against people who aren't in the NFL anymore.


Prescott's second game he came in after one drive and started right where he left off. Near his own end zone, he promptly completes a 20 yard pass. His next pass is another down the field completion for a first down. He then proceeds to throw a 28 yard bomb off his back foot with for a touchdown. He then starts his next drive with an on the money post. The drive finished with another down the field touchdown pass, but it was called back. So he then ran 20 yards in for the touchdown. After half time he launches a 50 yard bomb to set up another touchdown pass on a fade. He caps it with another td run.


Wilson's third game was against the Chiefs (who would have the 25th ranked defense in points allowed). This time he started, rather than coming in after half time. His first pass was a high comeback into double coverage, but the WR made the play. His next pass was another comeback/curl, on target for a first down. Overthrew his TE in the seam on the next pass. He scrambled away on the next one and threw to the flat for a first down. Another short pass picked up a couple yards. On third and long he overthrew everyone and they kicked a fg.
Next drive started with a run and then a defensive pass interference. Later that drive saw his best pass of the preseason: a streak to Edwards, which was thrown high and outside so the WR could go snatch it. Another incompletion was then followed by a sack on third and long after Wilson left the pocket.
Next drive Wilson picks up a long run on third and long as KC didn't spy him and left the middle wide open. No one came close to him for some thirty yards before he ran out of bounds. Third and long and Wilson is again sacked as the Chiefs blitzed. 9-0 Seattle at this point.
Next drive Wilson does what he does: he evades pressure on 1st down and picks up some thirty yards on a scramble after making one man miss behind the line and another near the line of scrimmage. Wilson then throws a touchdown on a corner route, but to be honest the pass was needlessly high arching. Maybe he wanted it to be very catcheable because the defender was ridiculously beaten (the WR was open by almost ten yards).
Next drive started with an outside deep pass that was too far to the inside and fell incomplete. On third and long Wilson throws a contested ball that falls incomplete, but he is hit late so there is a 15 yard penalty and the drive is extended. On first down he throws a risky ball over the middle to the tight end that the defender misses his swat on, and a big first down is obtained. On 2nd and fifteen, Wilson then throws behind over the middle near the sticks and the ball hits the ground. Third and 15 Wilson throws well short of the marker, but #85 hurdles over a pathetic tackle attempt and runs some 20 yards down the field. WIlson then once again misses a throw over the middle, this time over throwing it. However, he is once again hit late, so another roughing the passer penalty gives them a first down. Wilson then tries a throw over the middle one more time, but this time he throws an absolute perfect pass, and it's a touchdown. 23-7 Seattle.
After half time WIlson throws a pass that's nearly picked, but it turns out the defender got their too early, so it's Pass Interference and a first down. After a scramble and a two yard pass, Seattle runs it and the RB Turbin rumbles some 25 yards for a touchdown. 30-7 Seattle.
Next drive Wilson throws deep to Terrell Owens, who catches it by contorting his body and sliding because the pass was slightly under thrown (how did Owens not make the roster? He looked pretty good to me). Drive ends after an incompletion intended for Edwards, and Seattle misses a FG. 30-7 Seattle.
Next Chiefs possession ends with a defensive touchdown. 37-7 Seattle.
Seattle then takes a punt to the house. 44-7 Seattle.
Wilson doesn't play after that.


Prescott's third game you all watched. He came off the bench against Seattle's #1's (first or second best defense in the league) and promptly converted a third and long from the pocket after going through his progressions. Seattle then shut it down after Beasley dropped the third and long pass that was a bit high.
Next drive he marches the team down the field for a score. The touchdown was a little low, but he trusted his man to come down with it (like Wilson's first TD pass to Edwards in his first preseason game).
His next drive he led the team to a fg attempt, which was missed.
His third drive in the two minute drill he marched the team down the field to score a fg. I believe on three throws he took a shot to the chest and still delivered the football to the WR against a very good Seahawks defense, including one on 2nd and 13 that traveled about 20 yards through the air, with a guy in his face, which moved the chains. Shortly after that, from an empty set I saw him go through about three reads before coming all the way across the field to Beasley in the flat for a first down. He then might have had a touchdown to Beasley on a post if not for an obvious defensive penalty. A holding penalty killed their drive and they simply ran out of time, but they were close enough for a FG. All told it was a pretty good half considering it was Seattle they were playing.

After half time a good throw was broken up by a better defensive play, and on third down I saw a rare moment when Prescott didn't sense the pressure until he was forced to throw the ball into the dirt. Wilson then did the Houdini crap that he does and Seattle put the game away. The rest of the game Seattle was pretty much jailbreak rushing to him.

At this point Prescott looks like a very, VERY talented rookie with worlds of potential. As of his 2nd game I saw all of 3 bad passes, and the vast majority of the rest were down the field darts (12-20+ yards). Wilson by game three also looked pretty good for a rookie, but significantly less comfortable in the pocket, and less willing to throw down the field except on the outside.



Based ONLY on the first three preseason games, I would pick Prescott, because he threw the ball in more places (Wilson consisted of dink and dunks and outside deep passes, while Prescott threw more medium range passes all over the field), because Wilson played cream puff defenses by comparison (the Chiefs and 2nd/3rd stringers don't compare to Seattle's and St. Louis first string defense), and because Prescott was more willing to throw from the pocket. Wilson looked like a good game manager with an uncanny ability to scramble for yards in those first three games, while Prescott has looked like a legitimate pocket passer who can run when needed.

Granted, hindsight is 20/20, and we now know that Wilson has completely remedied his weakness, and for the most part has become a competent pocket passer and electrifying scrambler. But based on those three games, Prescott has better numbers because he played better.

 

[dogorama]

Dak is the future! Girls love a big Dak!

:2thumbs:

You big, Dak honey? 8)

LMAO, I love it when you post late, an island in a sea of limp noodles.

:mrgreen:

Hehe :stirthepot:

Day off so I'm having fun and the Crappernick thing is awesome.

I see that, surprised that it took so long to get locked. I like it, not because of any particular viewpoint but because conflict is a good thing. We are an extremely polarized society and if history teaches us anything it is that positive change will not come about until we are forced to confront and acknowledge each other's viewpoints.

Talk about wishy-washy huh?

 

[UK_Seahawk]

Surely it's utterly stupid to determine floors and ceilings on 3 pre season games.

Dude looks to have potential and it will be interesting to see if he can live up the hype.

 

[dogorama]

Surely it's utterly stupid to determine floors and ceilings on 3 pre season games.

Dude looks to have potential and it will be interesting to see if he can live up the hype.

Well it looks like he is going to get his chance, ready or not. It has been interesting to follow him and our rookie QB's progress this preseason. I don't think people realize that Russell Wilson is a once-in-a-generation player. Rookies w/the kind of composure he displayed are rare and if you remember he was brought along pretty slow and wasn't really turned loose until late in the season.

I can remember being frustrated because I knew he could do more but PC in his wisdom was teaching him risk management. There's a ton of stuff for an NFL rookie to learn and Dak will have to suffer a little along the way too. The downside to his potential success is that we would have to endure the misplaced arrogance of the Mongol hordes of Cowboy fans for 10 years or more.

The horror!

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

Surely it's utterly stupid to determine floors and ceilings on 3 pre season games.

Dude looks to have potential and it will be interesting to see if he can live up the hype.

Well it looks like he is going to get his chance, ready or not. It has been interesting to follow him and our rookie QB's progress this preseason. I don't think people realize that Russell Wilson is a once-in-a-generation player. Rookies w/the kind of composure he displayed are rare and if you remember he was brought along pretty slow and wasn't really turned loose until late in the season.

I can remember being frustrated because I knew he could do more but PC in his wisdom was teaching him risk management. There's a ton of stuff for an NFL rookie to learn and Dak will have to suffer a little along the way too. The downside to his potential success is that we will have to endure the misplaced arrogance of the Mongol hordes of Cowboy fans for 10 years or more.

The horror!

Oh God! Fortunately I don't think he is quite the game manager Wilson was as a rookie, so he'll make enough mistakes to ensure Dallas isn't that good.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

5Rings is crushing on me... nice. :2thumbs:

You see that book he wrote just for me upthread? Awesome stuff seriously. The jealousy has a sweet smell just like Prescott in an actual game.

 

[dogorama]

5Rings is crushing on me... nice. :2thumbs:

You see that book he wrote just for me upthread? Awesome stuff seriously. The jealousy has a sweet smell just like Prescott in an actual game.

Classic.

But you're right, he's trying too hard.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

5Rings is crushing on me... nice. :2thumbs:

You see that book he wrote just for me upthread? Awesome stuff seriously. The jealousy has a sweet smell just like Prescott in an actual game.

Lol it's not jealousy. It's two things: (1) I'm baffled at every time a quarterback does good it is always compared to Wilson on this forum, as if collectively it suffers from short man syndrome (see my avatar) hehehehhehehe XD. (2) (the serious answer) I have three or four hours every night at work where I literally have NOTHING to do but screw off on the internet, and it's third shift so it's hard to stay awake. So usually I find some time consuming argument to get involved in.

5Rings is crushing on me... nice. :2thumbs:

You see that book he wrote just for me upthread? Awesome stuff seriously. The jealousy has a sweet smell just like Prescott in an actual game.

Classic.

But you're right, he's trying too hard.

I have nothing else to do at work from about 3 AM EST till 6:30 AM EST, and then from 7 AM till 9 AM.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Surely it's utterly stupid to determine floors and ceilings on 3 pre season games.

Dude looks to have potential and it will be interesting to see if he can live up the hype.

Well it looks like he is going to get his chance, ready or not. It has been interesting to follow him and our rookie QB's progress this preseason. I don't think people realize that Russell Wilson is a once-in-a-generation player. Rookies w/the kind of composure he displayed are rare and if you remember he was brought along pretty slow and wasn't really turned loose until late in the season.

I can remember being frustrated because I knew he could do more but PC in his wisdom was teaching him risk management. There's a ton of stuff for an NFL rookie to learn and Dak will have to suffer a little along the way too. The downside to his potential success is that we will have to endure the misplaced arrogance of the Mongol hordes of Cowboy fans for 10 years or more.

The horror!

Oh God! Fortunately I don't think he is quite the game manager Wilson was as a rookie, so he'll make enough mistakes to ensure Dallas isn't that good.

Game managed his way to Atlanta and a Superbowl win the very next year because he got piissed off. I figure he's really passed off now watching Cam Newton getting all the praise all underserved. Especially given he matched him stat for stat and outdid his punk ass.

@5rings, you're all good. I haven't actually seen you be out line usually. And remember I'm having fun tonight. :17:


Of course any quarterback current, past or future will be compared to Wilson here, given he's a top 5 quarterback at the least despite what the talking heads say. Especially since he is OUR quarterback.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

Surely it's utterly stupid to determine floors and ceilings on 3 pre season games.

Dude looks to have potential and it will be interesting to see if he can live up the hype.

Well it looks like he is going to get his chance, ready or not. It has been interesting to follow him and our rookie QB's progress this preseason. I don't think people realize that Russell Wilson is a once-in-a-generation player. Rookies w/the kind of composure he displayed are rare and if you remember he was brought along pretty slow and wasn't really turned loose until late in the season.

I can remember being frustrated because I knew he could do more but PC in his wisdom was teaching him risk management. There's a ton of stuff for an NFL rookie to learn and Dak will have to suffer a little along the way too. The downside to his potential success is that we will have to endure the misplaced arrogance of the Mongol hordes of Cowboy fans for 10 years or more.

The horror!

Oh God! Fortunately I don't think he is quite the game manager Wilson was as a rookie, so he'll make enough mistakes to ensure Dallas isn't that good.

Game managed his way to Atlanta and a Superbowl win the very next year because he got piissed off. I figure he's really passed off now watching Cam Newton getting all the praise all underserved. Especially given he matched him stat for stat and outdid his punk ass.

@5rings, you're all good. I haven't actually seen you be out line usually. And remember I'm having fun tonight. :17:


Of course any quarterback current, past or future will be compared to Wilson here, given he's a top 5 quarterback at the least despite what the talking heads say. Especially since he is OUR quarterback.

His rookie year he was a game manager with elite scrambling ability and spatial awareness. These days he still is all that, but he's also much better at knowing what the defense is doing and exploiting it. Combined that makes him an elite QB IMHO. He is a lot like Steve Young passing in the pocket and Fran Tarkenton as a scrambler.


EDIT- If I broke him down, my opinion on him would be this (based on more limited viewing of him that you guys since I only watch about 6 Seahawks games a year): He's a pretty accurate guy (very accurate a lot of the time but for some reason throws weird inaccurate passes more than you'd expect), he is decent at reading defenses, and he's pretty good in the pocket. Nothing truly elite about all that. BUT... he is so AMAZINGLY INCREDIBLE at evading pressure and knowing exactly what's going on around him, in a way that I have never seen anything remotely close to, that he is catapulted clear to near the top of NFL QBs. Basically, on almost half of every drive I have ever seen of him, he gets in a situation where either the pressure is to him too quickly or he doesn't see something fast enough to throw in rhythm, and for any other QB that's a punt. But for him, he just runs around, then smartly pump fakes, and picks up the first down (or touchdown) 80% of the time that happens. It's absolutely ridiculous and uncanny. On a given drive there might be three instances where any QB in the league would be stopped and the team would punt. But with Wilson he more often than not turns that into a conversion. I have never seen anything like it.

So, you can't just say, "Well Wilson would just be above average without his legs" because (a) it's more than that (it's his spatial awareness and situational awareness), and (b) he's so much better at it that anyone else that it defines him as an elite quarterback.

At least that's how I see him.

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

Steve Young would be the correct comparison straight up. Statistically they mirror each other except for the fact Wilson is better statistically year by year and is a far better scrambler and runner because he knows how to protect himself unlike Young. Young was more of an athlete like Keapernick. Fran was more of a pure scrambler with no direct comparison.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

:mrgreen:

Steve Young would be correct comparison straight up. Statistically they mirror each other except for the fact Wilson is better statistically.

Here's where I disagree. The game is different. Look at standard deviation for a true comparison. Every QB in the league has better stats than most QBs of the 90s. Young led the NFL in passer rating 6 times in 7 years. No one else has ever come close to that. This last season 6 guys had passer ratings of over 100. But from 1991 to 1997, a total of SEVEN QBs with more than 200 attempts had passer ratings over 100, and Steve Young had FIVE of those. 7 years, only 7 100+ QB ratings, five of which went to one guy. Wilson might have better career numbers, but compared to the era in which they play, Young was a god among men.

But when I say he's a lot like Steve Young, I mean the way he plays in the pocket and throws on rhythm, and his straight line running.

Steve Young would be the correct comparison straight up. Statistically they mirror each other except for the fact Wilson is better statistically year by year and is a far better scrambler and runner because he knows how to protect himself unlike Young. Young was more of an athlete like Keapernick. Fran was more of a pure scrambler with no direct comparison.

I don't know. Young took choppy little steps like Wilson does. He wasn't a long strider. He had those shorter legs and lower center of gravity.





Gosh i'm so bored. But don't forget! In comparison to his PEERS Steve Young was PEERLESS!

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

:mrgreen:

Steve Young would be correct comparison straight up. Statistically they mirror each other except for the fact Wilson is better statistically.

Here's where I disagree. The game is different. Look at standard deviation for a true comparison. Every QB in the league has better stats than most QBs of the 90s. Young led the NFL in passer rating 6 times in 7 years. No one else has ever come close to that. This last season 6 guys had passer ratings of over 100. But from 1991 to 1997, a total of SEVEN QBs with more than 200 attempts had passer ratings over 100, and Steve Young had FIVE of those. 7 years, only 7 100+ QB ratings, five of which went to one guy. Wilson might have better career numbers, but compared to the era in which they play, Young was a god among men.

But when I say he's a lot like Steve Young, I mean the way he plays in the pocket and throws on rhythm, and his straight line running.

Steve Young would be the correct comparison straight up. Statistically they mirror each other except for the fact Wilson is better statistically year by year and is a far better scrambler and runner because he knows how to protect himself unlike Young. Young was more of an athlete like Keapernick. Fran was more of a pure scrambler with no direct comparison.

I don't know. Young took choppy little steps like Wilson does. He wasn't a long strider. He had those shorter legs and lower center of gravity.

You do have a good point about the rules but if you compare the two side by side Wilson is the only quarterback that matches or outdoes Steve Young statistically and there is nobody else that comes near. Not even Cam Newton your MVP of nothing.


I shouldn't say this but I am a San Francisco native and loved the Steve Young 49er's. He was special.