Soon to be the End of the Pete Carroll Era?

[HawkFan72]

To address the OP's point: Why does Pete Carroll get all the blame? Where does John Schneider fit into your equation?

I blame him more for the O-line than Carroll.

It's football, everyone's to blame after a loss like yesterday.

But if we're handing out percentage of blame? Then Pete gets a good 75% in my book. What we've seen twice in a row now on the road is an unprepared mentally AND physically team that's getting their doors blown off by more physical and motivated teams.

How does that happen? That's on Pete, he's not getting this team mentally tough and ready for the playoffs, especially when we'll have to go back out on the road at some point.

Does this team have enough talent to win a SB? If you answer yes, then it's about preparation and motivation. Both those things lie at the feet of one person, Pete.

I totally agree from a preparation and mentality standpoint. That's on the coach.

But to put all the blame on Pete for the O-line personnel seems strange to me. That's all on the GM. Even if all the responsibility was handed to Tom Cable, John Schneider is the one who ultimately is in charge of overseeing that. He can veto Tom Cable if he doesn't think the O-line looks good enough.

 

[xStickybudz]

Pete Carroll is a walking legend as far as I'm concerned

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But to put all the blame on Pete for the O-line personnel seems strange to me. That's all on the GM. Even if all the responsibility was handed to Tom Cable, John Schneider is the one who ultimately is in charge of overseeing that. He can veto Tom Cable if he doesn't think the O-line looks good enough.

O-line looked plenty good against the Panthers, who had the #1 rush defense going into that game.

That's why I put these kinds of bad losses on Pete. The talent is there all over this roster, so when we put up a stinker, that's all preparedness and motivation. Pete.

 

[JustTheTip]

I don't think the "2nd and wrong" in XLIX in the player's eyes is the reason for the downturn.
Too many games and plays since then. We as fans can simplistically look and say "there was the moment".

The salary cap, injuries, age, and maybe overconfidence by the coaching staff at times may be a problem and reasons for the drop off, but what happens if they go to the Super Bowl and win it THIS YEAR??? .....with those same issues.

There is still a ton of talent on this team, the core of this team is still strong. Have they underachieved for their talent level this year? YES. Have the coaching staff been slow to make ingame adjustments, IMHO yes. Have injuries to key players of the core been an issue, YES!


There have been a lot less talented teams in the NFL win the Super Bowl in the past decade than this team.
This is a down year for the NFL, if any year is the year to struggle but still make the playoffs and win it all, it's this year.

*allas, the best team recordwise, has looked like poo the past couple of games and if their opponents had any kind of offense they get smoked like Seattle did at GB today. It's all when you peak which is hopefully in the playoffs for Seattle.

I agree with pretty much everything here. But while I don't think the XLIX is the reason for the downturn, I think it was damaging to Pete's credibility in the eyes of the players. When you are being told to always compete and held to that standard, and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus... I think I would be sitting there thinking WTH. While I wouldn't call it a downfall, this team has had a different feel to it since then.

Never threw a player under a bus. Just keeping the facts real.

Correct. It was Bevell that threw Lockette under the bus.

That is what I said "and then watch a coach make that call and then throw his players under the bus" meaning watch Bevell make the call and then throw Lockette under the bus. Did see Siouxhawk's comment until you quoted it because I have him on ignore, but I suspect he knew exactly what I meant. Once again, stating his opinion like it is a fact.

In my opinion he threw his player under the bus while taking no responsibility for himself. To me it sounded like "I made the perfect play call, the players didn't execute."

Siouxhawk has the opposite opinion.

Neither opinion is any more or less valid, difference is he continually throws his around like it is fact and then shows a total lack of respect for anybody who disagrees.

 

[JustTheTip]

But to put all the blame on Pete for the O-line personnel seems strange to me. That's all on the GM. Even if all the responsibility was handed to Tom Cable, John Schneider is the one who ultimately is in charge of overseeing that. He can veto Tom Cable if he doesn't think the O-line looks good enough.

O-line looked plenty good against the Panthers, who had the #1 rush defense going into that game.

That's why I put these kinds of bad losses on Pete. The talent is there all over this roster, so when we put up a stinker, that's all preparedness and motivation. Pete.

And this is why some of us want to have these discussions. Not because we think we have it bad, but because we have the talent to have it so much better and see that being wasted to extent.

 

[TaFeargOrm]

I want Seattle to win each and every game and I take a loss hard like most fans. But the fact is it's rare to have an excellent team 5 years in a row. There are weak spots on the team but we are yet again headed to the playoffs with a team that's capable of beating every single team in the NFL. I wish this was the 2013 roster but that's impossible to replicate and I'm optimistic the team can get it done in spite of the two terrible games we've had in last 3 weeks.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

No doubt, every team in the NFL has some weaknesses this year. No team is flat out dominant.

 

[Siouxhawk]

Correct. It was Bevell that threw Lockette under the bus.

He answered the question: We could've gone harder to the ball.
Stop with this ridiculous narrative.

It was still a crap move by a coach under those circumstances. Pete took total blame and didnt drop any players name with anything negative associated to them. Bevell on the other hand takes the low road and lays the blame on the players. No wonder he gets flipped off by the team every now and then. He's a cancer to the organization and I cant wait until he's gone.

Completely disagree on all your points. Reviewing it, he said "we" didn't go hard enough to the ball in answering the question. And way to spin the flipping the bird reality to try to support your point. Doug said he was playfully messing with Bevell as sort of an inside joke. This was before a play that resulted in a touchdown. As far as Marshawn, any speculation on why he did it is just that, speculation, as he never elaborated on it as he is Marshawn after all. As far as we know, he could've been flipping off Pete, Bevell, Sherm Smith, a teammate on the sideline, a trainer, a fan in the stands, the artist of a song he didn't like that popped in his head. Or maybe he was creating a diversion. Nobody knows but Marshawn.

 

[Siouxhawk]

I want Seattle to win each and every game and I take a loss hard like most fans. But the fact is it's rare to have an excellent team 5 years in a row. There are weak spots on the team but we are yet again headed to the playoffs with a team that's capable of beating every single team in the NFL. I wish this was the 2013 roster but that's impossible to replicate and I'm optimistic the team can get it done in spite of the two terrible games we've had in last 3 weeks.

Great point on not being able to replicate what we've had in the past. Pete just got done saying what he's hoping to achieve is a franchise that is playoff competitive year in and year out and doesn't have the huge peaks and valleys. Think maybe Cincinnati or New Orleans. We are going to make the playoffs for the fifth straight season, which is saying a lot in itself, and we could get hot and make a strong run to the Super Bowl. That wouldn't surprise me at all. Pete is running this team just as he envisioned and for that I am quite thankful.

 

[Uncle Si]

Correct. It was Bevell that threw Lockette under the bus.

He answered the question: We could've gone harder to the ball.
Stop with this ridiculous narrative.

It was still a crap move by a coach under those circumstances. Pete took total blame and didnt drop any players name with anything negative associated to them. Bevell on the other hand takes the low road and lays the blame on the players. No wonder he gets flipped off by the team every now and then. He's a cancer to the organization and I cant wait until he's gone.

Completely disagree on all your points. Reviewing it, he said "we" didn't go hard enough to the ball in answering the question. And way to spin the flipping the bird reality to try to support your point. Doug said he was playfully messing with Bevell as sort of an inside joke. This was before a play that resulted in a touchdown. As far as Marshawn, any speculation on why he did it is just that, speculation, as he never elaborated on it as he is Marshawn after all. As far as we know, he could've been flipping off Pete, Bevell, Sherm Smith, a teammate on the sideline, a trainer, a fan in the stands, the artist of a song he didn't like that popped in his head. Or maybe he was creating a diversion. Nobody knows but Marshawn.

The thread title is fairly specific on which coach is being discussed.

 

[Seymour]

But to put all the blame on Pete for the O-line personnel seems strange to me. That's all on the GM. Even if all the responsibility was handed to Tom Cable, John Schneider is the one who ultimately is in charge of overseeing that. He can veto Tom Cable if he doesn't think the O-line looks good enough.

O-line looked plenty good against the Panthers, who had the #1 rush defense going into that game.

That's why I put these kinds of bad losses on Pete. The talent is there all over this roster, so when we put up a stinker, that's all preparedness and motivation. Pete.

I would not be too quick to hang my hat on that fact. That Panther team clearly checked out that game. Look what motivated teams have done to us lately.

 

[Threedee]

Regardless of the crap games the Hawks have thrown out there, I am amazed at how they find ways to rebound. Either after a dreadful game or the loss of players by injury.

I think posts like the OP are ridiculous.

Because it was GB, and Wilson was playing terribly, I kept waiting for the miraculous comeback. By the end of the third quarter, I just wanted a bunch of garbage points, but, I was able to lie to myself for some time. That says something about this team...

 

[LeftHandSmoke]

Jeff Fisher Fired

http://syndication.bleacherreport.com/a ... error=true

I hope Kroenke doesn't come after Carroll

 

[semiahmoo]

Few things

- our WR corp is terrible outside of Baldwin. Jermaine Kearse has appeared to lost his professional ability this year. Seriously wtf has happened to him??!?!
- our OL goes without saying
- our DL is all of a sudden not getting any sort of pass rush
- Russell Wilson appears to have some sort of QB PTSD. Call a spade a spade. He's not looked good this year


I'm at a loss right now. I have no clue wtf is going on with them. Call us Seahawks fans all you want. But New Orleans, Tampa, and GB have putrid Ds and they've looked beyond bad against all of them.

Spot on. Russ is not the same, and it's more than lingering injury. He looks scared at times. I don't blame him for that given the sometimes lay-down-and-die performance of the O-Line, but it needs to be said. Russel Wilson is setting a pace to have thrown more interceptions than touchdowns in a season. (Hoping it doesn't get that bad, but it could)

He put on a lot of weight, is slower, his passing is far more suspect, and dare I say, the team is starting to look at him different. This is the beginning of a trend, and needs to be addressed, remedied, whatever - and that begins with Pete Carrol.

Beyond that, our D has looked tired this season at times, which a couple years ago, I can recall how they seemed to become more and more energized in the second half and flat out pummeled opponents into submission. That kind of intimidation has lessened. Again, the win/loss record doesn't show that, but those who watch beyond the scoreboard can see it on the field, and multiple blowout losses in a season would suggest its more than a mere passing phase and if not cured, will become the rule rather than the exception.

 

[semiahmoo]

The problem is the chip on the shoulder is now gone. It was filled with money, age, families, national attention. The first time around everyone was fighting for their spot on the team and making peanuts. They had everything to lose and no respect. Now they all got their 8 figure pay days, tons of respect, they matured, got wives and children, a solid spot on the roster.

It's no longer a young starving team. I think that is what Lynch saw that caused him to walk away. It was easy being a veteran on the team when he was surrounded by these young guys that were pushing the limits and taking everyone by storm. Lightning struck and it kept the Beast energized, then the storm started to break and Marshawn saw it wasn't worth it. Why beat himself up? The coaches obviously thought he wasn't a sure thing anymore. His teammates had drifted, some away from the Seahawks, some just found a place to be comfortable and hang back.

I think he relied greatly on the environment of the locker room, and it changed. He made his money, he hadn't completely destroyed his body, he didn't have team that made him passionate about the game, so he walked away near the peak of his career, on his own terms and didn't lose out on anything. I think if he felt they had a chance to build a dynasty and return to the super bowl again and again, he would have stuck around. But he saw it the spark was gone. It was going to be hard work and it wasn't going to be fun.

Lynch leaving signals the era is coming to an end. Not because he's gone, not because Pete is washed up. There was a moment in time where everything lined up perfectly, that moment has passed.

That's not to say the team is no longer capable. But the path to a championship is different. To get there now is going to be based on experience, not on passion and unwillingness to lose.

Very well said.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

But to put all the blame on Pete for the O-line personnel seems strange to me. That's all on the GM. Even if all the responsibility was handed to Tom Cable, John Schneider is the one who ultimately is in charge of overseeing that. He can veto Tom Cable if he doesn't think the O-line looks good enough.

O-line looked plenty good against the Panthers, who had the #1 rush defense going into that game.

That's why I put these kinds of bad losses on Pete. The talent is there all over this roster, so when we put up a stinker, that's all preparedness and motivation. Pete.

I would not be too quick to hang my hat on that fact. That Panther team clearly checked out that game. Look what motivated teams have done to us lately.

Ran well against the Pats as well....................on the road, were they checked out too?

O-line is not good for sure, but I can't hang yesterday's loss on them, not even close. I saw a soft unprepared uninspired performance, in every facet and unit on the field.

This used to be good road team, because defense and run game travels. Neither of which is anywhere near the level it's been in the past.

 

[semiahmoo]

I was actually thinking about this yesterday. Not totally because of the blowout but a lot to do with his body language on the sidelines and his interviews. Pete used to have a lot more spunk and was more exciting to listen to and watch.

I totally agree with him going out on his own terms. We will make the playoffs this year and again next year. We will probably win the West both years. Pete will resign after next year and say it was a great run.

I don't think Pete will ever let Schneider fire Cable or Bevell so the three of them will all go out together on Pete's terms.

I see much the same. There has been a shift in tone/attitude starting with Pete and moving through this team. Pete's energy has lessened. Yes, he remains a high-energy guy, but there's something different, something missing from previous years.

His contract has one year remaining. My feeling is he's looking at the door, and others on the team sense it.

I stand by the original opinion that we are at the beginning of the end of the Pete Carroll era. The longer-term question for me then is if Russel Wilson survives this transition with his abilities both mental and physical intact, or if 2018 is looking to be a huge shift in the entirety of this team both in terms of personnel and personality.

I would love to see Pete have one more run in him, but that window is closing quickly, and he seems more aware of that fact than anyone - and perhaps has already made peace with it.

 

[nash72]

Correct. It was Bevell that threw Lockette under the bus.

He answered the question: We could've gone harder to the ball.
Stop with this ridiculous narrative.

It was still a crap move by a coach under those circumstances. Pete took total blame and didnt drop any players name with anything negative associated to them. Bevell on the other hand takes the low road and lays the blame on the players. No wonder he gets flipped off by the team every now and then. He's a cancer to the organization and I cant wait until he's gone.

Completely disagree on all your points. Reviewing it, he said "we" didn't go hard enough to the ball in answering the question. And way to spin the flipping the bird reality to try to support your point. Doug said he was playfully messing with Bevell as sort of an inside joke. This was before a play that resulted in a touchdown. As far as Marshawn, any speculation on why he did it is just that, speculation, as he never elaborated on it as he is Marshawn after all. As far as we know, he could've been flipping off Pete, Bevell, Sherm Smith, a teammate on the sideline, a trainer, a fan in the stands, the artist of a song he didn't like that popped in his head. Or maybe he was creating a diversion. Nobody knows but Marshawn.

The fact that any player at any time is flipping off the coaching staff isnt a good thing. How you can see nothing wrong with that is crazy. It shows how blind you are when it comes to anything negative about this team. Marshawn doing so and it being fine because Marshawn is Marshawn is garbage. He didnt elaborate because unlike Bevell, he didnt want to publicly throw anybody under the bus. I think we all know why it happened and thats because he was fed up with the crappy play calling. I'm also confident that same reason had a good bit to do with him retiring. It cost him another superbowl and it was never going to get any better with the same OC still being there so what was the point of still playing. I'll never forget the following season against the Rams when it was 4th and 1 and although the Rams had a stacked line and one of the most formidable fronts in the NFL, Bevell called his number almost as if it would alleviate the grief and pain Lynch and the other players felt from the superbowl call. As usual for Bevell, it was a terrible call and failed miserably.

As for Pete, if he agreed to the atrocious '2nd and wrong' call in the superbowl, then he had to go to bat for Bevell after that season or he himself would have been shown to be just as guilty. Again, this is another reason why Pete should stay away from the offense completely as he's not an offensive coach and his ego and dedication to be cute hurts the team more than helps it.

 

[semiahmoo]

To address the OP's point: Why does Pete Carroll get all the blame? Where does John Schneider fit into your equation?

I blame him more for the O-line than Carroll.

Fair question. Schneider is contracted for another four years - Pete is up after next season, so that is why the focus at this time was primarily on Carroll.

And yes, your placement of blame on the O-Line is legit, and has caused a significant ripple effect upon Wilson, the backfield, etc. - though Pete was certainly part of that process, though admittedly, having to also work with the hand Schneider's money-saving schemes gave him.

 

[nash72]

One other point, if I were the head coach and one of my players flipped off the coaching staff regardless if it was for fun or whatnot, they are getting sat down and fined, especially if its on National TV. Theres no room for that.