Stolen signals?

[pats(t)roll]

Just came to point out that stealing signals isn't illegal. Anyway, the report is that the pats saw this formation (stacked receivers on the gl) from the hawks in their game film preparation and practiced for it. Butler was beaten several times on the pick for touchdowns in practice so it was kinda a point of emphasis in the preparation. When butler saw the formation at the end and the initial movement of lockette he just trusted what he saw and made a break on it. Took a great play for the pats to win it and I think there were some reasonable arguments to pass on 2nd down. But if I'm Seattle I'm giving it to lynch 3 times and if the d stops that then tip your cap.

 

[HawkFan72]

The Pats could afford to "bet the farm" on that play because they didn't have anything to lose at that point. If they don't make a huge play, they're toast.

It was an obvious pass play and they were backed up on the 1 yard line.

If you don't bet the farm, you lose anyway.

They made a great play on a horrible play call. That's all there is to it.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Here was the signal we were throwing..

We came out in the shotgun with 3 WR's.

 

[netskier]

If I were the Seahawks I would use encrypted audio communications.

If I were the a Patriots, I would ask some football fans at MIT, which is in Cambridge, across the river from Boston, to implement ways try defeat the Seattle security.

Maybe even deploy some DARPA funded micro drones, say mosquito sized robots to fly over to Wilson, land on him, and bug him in multiple senses of the word. Cf. Michael Crichton's book "Micro" for a thorough discussion of what is possible with nanobots. Good read. Kind of a nanobot takeoff on Jurassic Park.

 

[Vetamur]

The play call comes in over Wilsons radio helmet. Wilson pre-snap doesnt completely stare at Lockette but theres more than a normal look. Weve run that play several times in short yardage situations this season.

If they knew the play was coming as a team, they would have shut it down/taken it away by positioning the intercepting CB differently.

Browner did what he always does essentially. He wasnt specifically stopping Kearse from going to block the other CB, he just took him off his route.

Their CB made an awesome play. It will be the highlight of his career. As kids we all dream of that type of situation, few get in that situation, fewer still actually make the play. He made the play. Even with Kearse being tied up by Browner the pass is there in the All-22 and the pics weve all seen of it now. And like Harbaugh said in his interview with Kawakami this week, at worse thats an incomplete pass normally.

Its really hard to swallow, really hard to take. We will all think on it the rest of our lives and so I dont blame people at all for not just "letting it go".. but.. I dont see stolen signals. The play call isnt even as bad as my initial reaction to it. Their guy made a play. We dont have to get over it, but I do think we have to start moving forward. We could go crazy by September otherwise.

 

[olyfan63]

Just came to point out that stealing signals isn't illegal. Anyway, the report is that the pats saw this formation (stacked receivers on the gl) from the hawks in their game film preparation and practiced for it. Butler was beaten several times on the pick for touchdowns in practice so it was kinda a point of emphasis in the preparation. When butler saw the formation at the end and the initial movement of lockette he just trusted what he saw and made a break on it. Took a great play for the pats to win it and I think there were some reasonable arguments to pass on 2nd down. But if I'm Seattle I'm giving it to lynch 3 times and if the d stops that then tip your cap.

Pats(T)roll, You win the "Honest UserName of the Week" Award, lol!

If you guys somehow did steal our signals, I want Carroll to put someone on the case to figure out how we can do it too! Leave no stone unturned! We have to have our share of covert operative types in the Pac NW. Or maybe if I can figure out how, I can make some extra money.

Seriously, I'm going with the "Formation gave it away, go for broke, nothing to lose" explanation. Partly because the execution by Browner and Butler was so good, so instant, there really is no other plausible explanation other than they both read exactly what was coming, both guessed right and were in sync, and Butler made an amazing play. And our OC was a brain-dead doofus for ignoring our team's 2 biggest strengths: 1) Marshawn Lynch running the ball; 2) Russell Wilson's decision-making and mobility.

You'd think that with the game on the line we'd go to one of our strengths. Anything where Russell Wilson gets to move around and pick a target, or run it, no way does he throw a pick, and 50-50 we score, and if not, we have 2 more *RUNNING PLAYS* to pound it in.

So not only is our OC a brain-dead doofus, he is brain-dead in a predictable way, as the Patriots proved on that play. Well, I hope he's wiser now, because he's still our OC for the foreseeable future.

If Bevell was as smart as he thinks he is, he'd have gone 4 wides with Chris Matthews in, put Matthews (and thus Browner) on the other side of the formation, and then run the slant with Jerome Kearse picking a smaller DB. It was sheer lunacy on Bevell's part to expect Kearse to push past 230-lb Brandon Browner into a pick play, and he of all people should know that.

 

[olyfan63]

The play call comes in over Wilsons radio helmet. Wilson pre-snap doesnt completely stare at Lockette but theres more than a normal look. Weve run that play several times in short yardage situations this season.

If they knew the play was coming as a team, they would have shut it down/taken it away by positioning the intercepting CB differently.
..snip..
Its really hard to swallow, really hard to take. We will all think on it the rest of our lives and so I dont blame people at all for not just "letting it go".. but.. I dont see stolen signals. The play call isnt even as bad as my initial reaction to it. Their guy made a play. We dont have to get over it, but I do think we have to start moving forward. We could go crazy by September otherwise.

Thank you for clarifying how the play came in... it's all such a blur for me, I couldn't recall exactly where the timeout came in. Now I recall the TO was right after the Kearse catch. Then the BeastMode run to the 1, and then clock ticking, Bevell calls the play in to Wilson via the QB headset. Wilson tells players the call in the huddle. So to intercept the call, they would have to either intercept and decrypt the radio transmission (I'm sure there are several levels of encryption/security in the radio protocol, and tech specialists responsible for keeping it secure) or lip-read whoever was calling the play in (Bevell), or lip-read Wilson. And they would have to have a way of quickly relaying it to the players on the field, who would have to quickly organize themselves to stop it. I agree all that is an extremely unlikely scenario,

If NE had known, and had positioned the CB differently, Wilson may have read that and gone somewhere else with the throw, or at least made a non-turnover choice. As it was, their set baited Wilson into making the throw. In the video I shared earlier, taken by a Pats fan at the game, it's the best angle I've seen. Wilson litterally throws it *STRAIGHT INTO* the path of the onrushing Malcolm Butler.

In this one moment, Wilson's height was clearly an impediment. He couldn't see Butler when he began his throwing motion. #50 of the Patriots, plus the RT (Britt as far as I can tell) were blocking his line of sight. Even though Wilson threw it *straight* to Butler, who was there and onrushing straight into the path of the throw during the whole throwing motion, I think Wilson never saw him. In hindsight, I really don't think Lockette was "weak to the ball", more that Wilson placed it in a bad spot, with a lurking player he didn't see.

 

[Vetamur]

Someone posted a still..yesterday? 2 days ago.. in the still the ball is halfway to Lockette and Lockette is open and Butler is still yards away but obviously accelerating. Butler just completely sold out to make the play. If he had guessed wrong he would have been way out of position. But they were desperate so he made his gamble. Just like his coach did when he decided to go with the Jumbo D package despite Seahawks having 3 WR on the field.

Not sure going anywhere else with the ball is really an option with that play..the timing of it is such that you throw it as soon as you get it.

The ball placement, in hindsight and armchair quarterbacking ability, wasnt great.. if that ball is low, a bit behind.. its either incomplete or even defensive PI if Butler decided to plow through Lockette.

The most frustrating thing to me about the execution, now that Ive come to terms with Butlers gamble that paid off..is that to me it looks like even if Lockette had caught the ball..hed have been tackled short of the end zone. I assumed, and I think most people did, that the play happens in the end zone..but Lockette is at the 1 and Butler is there.

Should have called a fade or better yet, play action to Lynch and roll out. Let Wilson make a play. As many people have said, "dance with one who took you there".

Its going to haunt us literally til we go senile.

 

[netskier]

Both teams have radio communications with players on the field. Defensive coaches with their onfield signal callers.

Defensive coaches can also employ lip readers with telescopes to read the signals, to radio to the signal callers. Even more things are possible with MIT on your side.

 

[BillBelichick]

Can you provide this evidence for Lane interception of Brady?

It just seems really ridiculous...but I guess that's one of the cornerstones of conspiracy theories. They don't exist there's no way to disprove them.

And they live on...

Why change the subject? Can't you provide a FOOTBALL ANSWER?
I'm sure you can find your own breakdown of Lane's pick of Brady. That's irrelevant here. Wagner's pick too.
And of course this is only a question because of Belichick's past, specifically in stealing signals.
Do you have something more substantial than trying to change the subject?

And why immediately say, "there's no way to disprove them", without first attempting to find some reasonable basis in data to show that it couldn't be true. On that play, what's the timeline, what's the technology involved, for communicating the call from Bevell to Wilson, the timeframes involved, and then for communicating an "intercepted signal" to Browner and Butler, that would show that it would be a near-impossibility to do, in the game situation? Simply show the factors that would make it impossible or near-impossible.

I don't want to fuel the fire here, but if all you wanted was for someone to say "teams use headsets for playcalling" I'm not sure what the point of this was.

I know everyone realizes this thread is ridiculous but...you bring "SpyGate" as the basis of your argument, you ask us to give you a "reasonable basis in data," and then you are completely unwilling to look at any other scenario. Is it completely outrageous to want to look at another example of what you are talking about to understand better what you are getting at here.

Can you point us to any news article, video clip, posting, study....ANYTHING where someone has discussed another play in the way you are looking for us to discuss it here? "The timeline," "the technology involved, for communicating the call," "the timeframes involved," "communicating an 'intercepted signal'"- I think people would be a lot more understanding/willing to work you through things if you could give us a link to ANYTHING close to what you are looking for here.

For what it's worth, as a Pats fan, I would appreciate some answers with a "reasonable basis in data" for a couple of Giants once-in-a-lifetime Super Bowl circus catches (one that cost us a perfect season), and an additional one by Jermaine Kearse that almost cost us another Super Bowl.

Can you imagine if we did this for every interception? Why is this one different?

If everything else is irrelevant...

 

[sc85sis]

Football answer: It's a play we've run multiple times. Browner defended against it in practice. Belichick and staff saw it on film and practiced for it so their guys were ready. That's called being prepared. Coaches look for tendencies. They saw one and exploited it.

No conspiracy needed.

 

[bostonhardo]

If the play was "intercepted", why did the Pats have a goal line package in? Even if they knew the play, by what ever means, most of us know what the play should have been and we all know there was NFW the Pats were going to stop even if they had the correct personnel on the field. The Pats knew they weren't going to stop, we all saw the same thing, Brady with his head in his hands and Bill all sour puss faced knowing he was going to be on the wrong end of a SB again.

Congrats to the Pats and Pats fans, but that team and it's fan base know what should have happened.

What should have happened is the Seahawks run out of downs at midfield. What should have happened is
Kearse not making a " look what I found" catch. What ultimately should have happened is PC should have overruled his OC. All ancient history on to next year.

 

[CANHawk]

You know who else has LOTS of technical data points to support their theories? 9/11 and moon landing truthers. Doesn’t make them any less of a whackadoo...

 

[m0ng0]

What should have happened is the Seahawks run out of downs at midfield. What should have happened is
Kearse not making a " look what I found" catch. What ultimately should have happened is PC should have overruled his OC. All ancient history on to next year.

Bingo!

 

[swagcity21]

Dude just stop. Nobody stole any signals. To even mutter as much just makes us look wack. They won, we lost, stop looking for cockameme ways to rationalize it. Its a football game, sometimes shit just happens...

:13:

 

[BillBelichick]

I enjoy how this ridiculous conspiracy thread about Bill Belichick intercepting the final play call of the game remains here strong in the main forum, but my sister ridiculous conspiracy post about Kearse being on Adderrall quickly gets moved to "The Shack."

I demand equal representation.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108728

 

[Chapow]

I enjoy how this ridiculous conspiracy thread about Bill Belichick intercepting the final play call of the game remains here strong in the main forum, but my sister ridiculous conspiracy post about Kearse being on Adderrall quickly gets moved to "The Shack."

I demand equal representation.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108728

Well at least you enjoy it.

So you got that going for you.

 

[chris98251]

I enjoy how this ridiculous conspiracy thread about Bill Belichick intercepting the final play call of the game remains here strong in the main forum, but my sister ridiculous conspiracy post about Kearse being on Adderrall quickly gets moved to "The Shack."

I demand equal representation.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108728

Our site, our ball, nothing is equal, nothing is fair. if that is an issue put a complaint into the complaint department box and we will get to you in the order it was received.

 

[5_Golden_Rings]

Dude just stop. Nobody stole any signals. To even mutter as much just makes us look wack. They won, we lost, stop looking for cockameme ways to rationalize it. Its a football game, sometimes shit just happens...

It's a sincere question, looking for a football answer. Sports Hernia gave a football answer.
It would be great to have logistical/technical confirmation of why this couldn't be the case.

The answer is that Seattle did this concept out of a stack formation way too much the last few years.

 

[CANHawk]

Dude just stop. Nobody stole any signals. To even mutter as much just makes us look wack. They won, we lost, stop looking for cockameme ways to rationalize it. Its a football game, sometimes shit just happens...

It's a sincere question, looking for a football answer. Sports Hernia gave a football answer.
It would be great to have logistical/technical confirmation of why this couldn't be the case.

The answer is that Seattle did this concept out of a stack formation way too much the last few years.

Jesus Christ Oly, you're making me agree with a damn dirty 9'er fan...