Stolen signals?

[LTH]

Dude just stop. Nobody stole any signals. To even mutter as much just makes us look wack. They won, we lost, stop looking for cockameme ways to rationalize it. Its a football game, sometimes shit just happens...

It's a sincere question, looking for a football answer. Sports Hernia gave a football answer.
It would be great to have logistical/technical confirmation of why this couldn't be the case.

The answer is that Seattle did this concept out of a stack formation way too much the last few years.

They ran this play for a TD vs Carolina in the playoffs...for sure the Pats looked at that tape...

LTH

 

[BillBelichick]

I enjoy how this ridiculous conspiracy thread about Bill Belichick intercepting the final play call of the game remains here strong in the main forum, but my sister ridiculous conspiracy post about Kearse being on Adderrall quickly gets moved to "The Shack."

I demand equal representation.

http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108728

Our site, our ball, nothing is equal, nothing is fair. if that is an issue put a complaint into the complaint department box and we will get to you in the order it was received.

That's all well and good, but for those of us living in reality...

You guys have a long set of rules...either a post is against the rules or it's not.

Do ridiculous conspiracy posts belong in the shack? This one is here and mine is there.

 

[Vetamur]

Quick answer is that when an opposing fan comes in and claims a Seahawk player is cheating that is essentially talking smack.
When one of our own is talking about stolen signals it's a coping mechanism for a painful loss.

 

[Anonymous]

Dude just stop. Nobody stole any signals. To even mutter as much just makes us look wack. They won, we lost, stop looking for cockameme ways to rationalize it. Its a football game, sometimes shit just happens...

Excellent use of the word, "cockameme".

Beautiful.

 

[Scottemojo]

I enjoy how this ridiculous conspiracy thread about Bill Belichick intercepting the final play call of the game remains here strong in the main forum, but my sister ridiculous conspiracy post about Kearse being on Adderrall quickly gets moved to "The Shack."

I demand equal representation.

http://www.seahawks.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108728

Our site, our ball, nothing is equal, nothing is fair. if that is an issue put a complaint into the complaint department box and we will get to you in the order it was received.

That's all well and good, but for those of us living in reality...

You guys have a long set of rules...either a post is against the rules or it's not.

Do ridiculous conspiracy posts belong in the shack? This one is here and mine is there.

You should probably lawyer up.

 

[CANHawk]

I enjoy how this ridiculous conspiracy thread about Bill Belichick intercepting the final play call of the game remains here strong in the main forum, but my sister ridiculous conspiracy post about Kearse being on Adderrall quickly gets moved to "The Shack."

I demand equal representation.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=108728

Our site, our ball, nothing is equal, nothing is fair. if that is an issue put a complaint into the complaint department box and we will get to you in the order it was received.

That's all well and good, but for those of us living in reality...

You guys have a long set of rules...either a post is against the rules or it's not.

Do ridiculous conspiracy posts belong in the shack? This one is here and mine is there.

You should probably lawyer up.

Better call Saul...

 

[CANHawk]

Saw this, thought of OP...

 

[Uncle Si]

Here was the signal we were throwing..

We came out in the shotgun with 3 WR's.

Yep. Sound FX captures the Patriots sideline seeing the set and sending Butler out

They just recognized the formation

 

[Thomas144]

This is silly.

It was a great play by Butler, they knew what was coming because the formation gave it away.

Humor me. Break down what it would take to accomplish signal-stealing in the SB49 setting. Some on this board are familiar with the details of the Patriots signal stealing that they lost a draft pick for a few years back. I'm not familiar with the details of what they were busted for. The only posts I found in a search of this board didn't really break it down at all. What exactly were they busted for, what methods of stealing signals, and how is what Belichick did then no longer possible now?

The Patriots were not penalized for stealing signals. Never have been. They were penalized for using a video camera on the sidelines. Polaroid still cameras were legal on the sidelines but not video cameras. Belichick's defense was that the rule states the video could not be used in the game, and he was not watching the video during the game. Goodell thought differently and fined them a first round draft pick and a ton of money after a three day "investigation".

At the time defensive signals were made with hand signals from the sideline, but now they use radios. Belichick was videoing the signal calls, he would argue, for future reference. Signal callers could have done a better job of disguising their signals. Third base coaches in baseball manage to do this.

 

[WilsonsArmy]

I think it's cool that people believe anything negative about the Patriots true or not. Screw the Patriots and their lowlife fans.

 

[Scottemojo]

I think it's cool that people believe anything negative about the Patriots true or not. Screw the Patriots and their lowlife fans.

You are so bad at pretending, even with all the practice.

 

[WilsonsArmy]

I think it's cool that people believe anything negative about the Patriots true or not. Screw the Patriots and their lowlife fans.

You are so bad at pretending, even with all the practice.

Believe what you wll brother 12. I'm out. It's a beautiful morning here in Carlsbad and the fog just burned off the beach so I'm going to chill and enjoy the day. Cheers.

 

[Sports Hernia]

I think it's cool that people believe anything negative about the Patriots true or not. Screw the Patriots and their lowlife fans.

You are so bad at pretending, even with all the practice.

Believe what you wll brother 12. I'm out. It's a beautiful morning here in Carlsbad and the fog just burned off the beach so I'm going to chill and enjoy the day. Cheers.

You are fooling absolutely no one.

 

[PackerNation]

Thinking over the 'Hawks last offensive play of SB49, and while I have to admire the key individual plays made by 3 Patriots on that play, I'm still left wondering how the Patriot DBs knew so clearly and convincingly *exactly* what was coming, with enough confidence to "bet the farm" on it, and have that guess turn out to be right.

Can someone share info that puts the "stolen signals" theory to rest? The hard part is that the Patriots and Belichick have done that specific thing in the past, i.e., there is a precedent.

Browner knew exactly what was coming, and prevented Kearse from getting off the line and using him in the pick action. (That was the dumbest part of the playcall, relying on Kearse to out-physical Browner; a bad matchup) And then Butler also sold out 100%, anticipated the route, and jumped it and got the pick. I keep getting stuck on the sheer odds of the Patriots guessing right and then executing so perfectly. Of course, One could say the same thing about our NFCCG win against the Packers, and everything that went our way at the right time on that.

How did Bevell/Carroll communicate the play call to Wilson on that play, and are there factors in that method which clearly rule out any factor other than the Patriots simply "guessing right" based on thorough scouting and player recognition?

I'm hesitant to give any weight to after-the-fact stuff like Butler's interview statements about how they practiced that and Belichick made him repeat the play until they got it right. That type of interview stuff could be "coached" after the fact.

My hope is that there's some clear factor that puts this whole idea to rest.

P.S. The 3 Patriots that made key plays were #1 Browner, #2 Butler, and #3 Hightower, in order of importance. Browner defeating Kearse's attempted pick was the #1 key. We all know how Butler did it. It's also clear that #54, Hightower, influenced Lockette to not be so "strong to the ball". Lockette saw #54 Hightower coming to blow him up, but didn't see Butler.

This should actually be posted in the Shack under the thread "Things that are funny".

I was laughing so hard my eyes were watering.

 

[olyfan63]

Here was the signal we were throwing..
We came out in the shotgun with 3 WR's.

Yep. Sound FX captures the Patriots sideline seeing the set and sending Butler out
They just recognized the formation

This is silly.

It was a great play by Butler, they knew what was coming because the formation gave it away.

Humor me. Break down what it would take to accomplish signal-stealing in the SB49 setting. Some on this board are familiar with the details of the Patriots signal stealing that they lost a draft pick for a few years back. I'm not familiar with the details of what they were busted for. The only posts I found in a search of this board didn't really break it down at all. What exactly were they busted for, what methods of stealing signals, and how is what Belichick did then no longer possible now?

The Patriots were not penalized for stealing signals. Never have been. They were penalized for using a video camera on the sidelines. Polaroid still cameras were legal on the sidelines but not video cameras. Belichick's defense was that the rule states the video could not be used in the game, and he was not watching the video during the game. Goodell thought differently and fined them a first round draft pick and a ton of money after a three day "investigation".

At the time defensive signals were made with hand signals from the sideline, but now they use radios. Belichick was videoing the signal calls, he would argue, for future reference. Signal callers could have done a better job of disguising their signals. Third base coaches in baseball manage to do this.

It's a sincere question, looking for a football answer. Sports Hernia gave a football answer.
It would be great to have logistical/technical confirmation of why this couldn't be the case.

The answer is that Seattle did this concept out of a stack formation way too much the last few years.

They ran this play for a TD vs Carolina in the playoffs...for sure the Pats looked at that tape...

LTH

[/quote]

In between all the attacks, mocking, projection of other people's emotions, there have been some great football answers shared. Thank you for the breakdowns, explanations, etc. that were presented as football answers. I've quoted some of the particularly helpful ones above.

I've only heard snippets about the "stealing signals" accusations against Belichick from years past, never cared to pay attention to it. If what Thomas144 is saying is an accurate summary, the "violations" Belichick was rung up for involved entirely different technologies, i.e., looking to intercept, capture, and decode *hand signals* different teams use. Teams that took reasonable countermeasures at the time, would likely have defeated these efforts. Teams that didn't would pay the price of having the Patriots always seem to know exactly what's coming. The whole prosecution of the issue by Goodell sounds more like a "persecution". There would not seem to be any connection, especially given that these days, calls are radioed in, rather than signalled in. Of course, any team that doesn't take reasonable measures to secure how they communicate is asking to have their signals stolen. IIRC, our defense decoded some of Peyton Manning's calls last year in SBXLVIII to the point of knowing exactly what was coming.

It's rather amusing that people insist on projecting their emotional agendas onto me and some simple questions I was asking. If anything, I was in awe at the speed of recognition and execution by the Patriots. Now, it's more a combination of that and absolute disgust for Bevell, and the sheer stupidity of the play call, and his lack of situational awareness (e.g., Kearse is supposed to blow Browner off the line as part of a pick) FWIW, I personally did my mourning over the 2 days following SB49. My assumption going in was that stealing signals was likely implausible, but I wanted to understand WHY that was the case. I'm not an experienced X's and O's guy like many posters here, but I do understand individual matchups and team position group strengths and tendencies pretty well. Studying this play is fascinating and greatly educational, to me anyway, from the X's and O's point of view. So basically I just wanted the X's and O's from the technology, timeline, and logistics point of view, to increase my understanding, and have a clearer picture of what went down, and why, and what it means.

Should I apologize for not knowing some of the stuff I didn't know when I started this thread? HELL NO. But I do thank everyone who shared their FOOTBALL KNOWLEDGE and gave FOOTBALL ANSWERS. The nastiness, sarcasm, mocking, insults, etc., well, not my idea of fun, but absolutely worth the price of LEARNING. Can a .NETter who is less knowledgeable in a given area post a question asking others who know more to help fill in the blanks? Well, yes, but best be prepared to endure and sort through a lot of "other" less-than-helpful responses.

The more I study this play, and what happened, and what it means, the more indefensible the play call becomes. Some
of the things I've decided it means...

1) It truly is the stupidest play call in Super Bowl history; I thought this in the moment when it happened, but now there is tons of supporting data, primarily for reasons of readability/predictability, and because it was given priority over using our strengths, dancing with the ones that brung us, Lynch and Wilson's running, and Wilson's decisionmaking and taking care of the ball.

2) Darrell Bevell was unbelievably dense and predictable in that moment. We ran this same look against Carolina in the same situation? Kidding, right? Not kidding? We are really that predictable? If Bevell is that bad at choosing plays to exploit what the opponent gives us, no wonder we went 3-and-out repeatedly while the Patriots were coming from 10 down.

3) Wilson really is "Too Short" for certain kinds of plays and throws, and his height was a critical factor on this play. A 6'4" quarterback would have seen over the top of Britt and the NE LB to see that Butler was straight in line with the throw. Again, this is on Bevell, for asking Russell to do a type of play that is NOT his strength, and is high-risk in this area, with all the bodies packed into a compressed space.

4) Darrell Bevell's situational awareness is near zero. Kearse is supposed to blow Browner off the line as part of the pick play, while being outweighed 30 lbs? Really?

Darrell Bevell, the NE MVP of SB49.

 

[olyfan63]

Oh yes, BillBelichick, there was a conspiracy, for NE to lose YET ANOTHER Super Bowl on a crazy, amazing, implausible catch. Roger Goodell told me to relay this to you:

Goodell:
It was scripted. Kearse's looky-what-I-found catch was totally scripted, and pulled off with holograms and CGI, just like David Tyree and Mario Manningham's catches before him. You know how us Masons love threes... It was all going according to plan, too. Then Bevell went off-script, trying to show how brilliant he is. Even the best scripted conspiracies can sometimes fail. Just takes one idiot going off script. Personally, I'm suspecting that Kraft may have a mole, and that Bevell is his mole. I'll be investigating that next. It will be a 3-day investigation.
Love, Roger

 

[Rex]

Stealing signals for cheating is what the Cheatriots do. It is in their DNA. They can't help it. No doubt in my mind they cheated in numerous ways during the super bowl. Anyone dismissing such talk as conspiracy or wack is completely clueless to the long term well documented cultural identity of cheating that the Cheatriots and their coach Belicheat embrace and nurture with the express consent of the NFL commissioner. Time will tell how the Cheatriots cheated the Seahawks out of a super bowl.

 

[chawx]

[youtube]xJiTnk23dtc[/youtube]

Daniel Tosh sums up my feelings about the Pats.
Congrats on your 4th*, may your legacy be forever tainted. :th2thumbs:

 

[BillBelichick]

Haha there's a faction of you that are just settling right into the "we hate the Pats because we lost to them, let's come up with psycho excuses" crowd.

I was holding out hope you guys could take even a small fraction of what you dish out.

I look forward to many more irrational rants in the future!

 

[purpleneer]

The Pats could afford to "bet the farm" on that play because they didn't have anything to lose at that point. If they don't make a huge play, they're toast.

It was an obvious pass play and they were backed up on the 1 yard line.

If you don't bet the farm, you lose anyway.

They made a great play on a horrible play call. That's all there is to it.

Ding...ding...effing ding. Even a hunch is easily enough to sell out.
I can't believe I commented on this stupid thread.