Talk some sense into me!!!: WR edition. Enter at own risk.

[kidhawk]

A) Rice won't be here under the same contract. Whether the team keeps him at a lower price tag or whether he even would take a lower contract is completely up in the air. I don't think it affects us much overall because even if we keep him at a lower price, he could still get cut if he's out performed by a younger guy.

B) Tate/Baldwin:

Two points with these guys....they aren't interchangeable, they don't play the same WR position. I don't know why people think they do. Baldwin doesn't replace Tate on the field at any point in time. With that said, this team was supposedly offered draft pick(s) for Baldwin in the pre season and turned them down. That says a lot. He was also our most clutch third down receiver. I don't expect him to go anywhere unless he really wants to (which I don't believe)

C) I can pretty much guarantee you the cap price for the Receivers will be higher this year. Even if you cut Rice and Keep Harvin it's going up significantly. Even replacing all the other vets with Rookies can't make up that difference. Unless you want to cut everyone except Harvin, expect to pay 18-20 million for receivers.


D) The draft:

I can agree fully that tall receivers are better in our system, but it's not truly going to save us all the money you think it will. It will save us some money yes, but is WR truly our weakest position? As this season went that is an arguable position, but Harvin is the difference maker. He'll be ready to go at 100% to start next season. He's the game changer at the position we need. We can draft more depth. I think we should definitely draft a receiver, because we may be rid of Rice and we can't be sure we are keeping both Tate and Baldwin due to their Free Agency Status. We don't have great depth there, so drafting a WR is definitely a good idea. At the very least they could earn a spot over Lockette (although he has improved lately).

E)

Random idea:

I don't see us needing to move up, but I can easily see us making trades for future draft picks. We still have quite a young team now, so stockpiling picks in the future would likely be a better bet than to use them to move up at this point.

F)

One thing people forget when they say "just get rid of rice" is that there is a lot of trust that the team and the players are taking care of each other right now. Look at how well we treated MRob when we cut him and how well Leon said he was treated when we cut him. I say this so people understand that we don't just "be rid of" players who have given 100% to this team in their time here.

Again, Tate and Baldwin are as different as two WR can be in the positions they play so it's not wise to lump them together. Baldwin is more expendable than Tate as his role is also Harvin's role. Although he can play the slot when Harvin is in the backfield or running end arounds etc. With Harvin's injury issues so far, keeping Baldwin around is a smart idea. If you let Tate go, and Rice go, you are really putting a lot of faith in rookies or getting free agents. I'm not sure getting rid of everyone is the best thing you can do. A quarterback receiver working together over time makes them better. Putting in too many new guys will make it that much more difficult to get growth in the passing game. This is another reason the team may hold onto Rice at least up until his bonus is due. We'll need to have some decisions made in this department before then. I just don't know when his bonus is due. This part will play a key role

I have to make this point strongly...WR isn't our weakest position when you add percy to the mix. We need to get more Oline talent from the draft. This is something that is more important to our offense than WR hands down.

Please withold as much homerism as you can as id love to get some real opinions on whatever sections you care to comment on other than all these (no offense) million i want db cause i said so conversations. Trying to think outside the box a bit. maybe im a fool for not locking up one of these guys, but keep in mind i think we could find a cheap serviceable vet while we develop our young guys.

In summation, we need to look a lot further than the WR position. We are going to be better in the position just by Harvin being healthy. We do need to look at upgrading our Offensive Line and we also need to take a good long look at the Defensive line as well. Assuming we re-sign Bennett to a decent deal, we are going to have $35+ million attached to the starters along the D-line. Look for some restructuring here to extend contracts of guys like Avril and Bryant and lower their cap value this year.

 

[Hawks46]

First, I don't really agree with the comment that we "ditch Rice no matter how cheap he is." Seriously ? The guys makes plays, and has a good chemistry with Wilson. Ever notice that when Wilson scrambles around, it's almost always Rice that ends up with the ball ? Is he worth the contract ? Nope. I'm with Chris: he's damaged goods and won't garner a big contract on the open market. He played through injury (anyone watching could see he wasn't right...that was his knee that finally went) and when he did go out, our passing game took a hit once teams started putting their best CB on Tate. If he comes back at a minimum, I'd take him, but point taken about developing new talent.

Tate. I love the guy, but he's really inconsistent. His best value, honestly, is as a punt returner, as he touches the ball more consistently there. He'll have good games like the Rams (he matches up well with Jenkins) then disappear for 2-3 game streches. I wouldn't overpay the guy, but he's definately worth bringing back.

Baldwin. If I'm keeping Tate or Baldwin, I'm keeping Baldwin. He's clutch; he makes every big play on 3rd down when we need him now that Rice is gone. He has better chemistry with Wilson. He didn't miss any time this year that I remember (yeah, I know he gets dinged). I'd agree with tendering him high and keeping him on a value contract if possible.

Kearse. I think he's going to get better. I'd like to extend him before he costs us too much. He's going to be a guy that wants money when he starts producing. I think he progresses to a solid #2 maybe #3 WR. He makes big plays but I'd like to see him be a bit more consistent. All of our WRs are good blockers.

TE position. Willson is going to have a breakout year next year, IMO. His blocking got a lot better the last half of the season and he's really damned good at sealing the edge, as he has the speed to get out there and the strength to pin the DE/OLB inside. Miller is an elite level blocker and an above average receiver. He's good at finding the holes in the zone, but I fear he's too slow to create much of a mismatch against LBers. His hands are elite though. If we got a guy like Sefarian Jenkins (I don't know how good his blocking is) it would make our 2 TE sets elite. On a rookie contract, we could probably afford to keep all 3 TE's. McCoy will come back to compete, but I don't see him making the squad.

I'd agree with drafting a good WR, but I'd like to go bpa at the position starting at about the 3rd round. Our FO hasn't been the greatest at hitting on WRs in the draft. We're also going to have Harvin (hopefullly) all year next year, which automatically makes an incredible difference. I'd prefer to go bpa Interior OL as soon as possible, but I trust this FO enough to let them grab whoever the hell they want with the 32nd pick of the 1st round. which feels AWESOME to say.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Why wouldn't we keep Lockette next year? He's been amazing on special teams ever since we picked him up, and it's not like he costs anything

Like you said, he doesn't cost anything so nothing to worry about. Definitely bring him back to compete. I love seeing those his he lays on people!

Golden Tate was the offense in both games against the Rams. If he doesn't go for 80 yards in St Louis, and no other WR on this team makes that play, this team doesn't have home field advantage, and we very well may have been watching another team beat up Denver yesterday.

The what have you done for me lately mentality by some is extremely short sighted.

Doesn't mean I sign Tate at all costs. And I don't sign Baldwin at all costs, but one of them will definitely be back, and I hope it's both.

Drafting a WR early and hoping for any sort of production in year one is fools gold. DeAndre Hopkins and Cordarelle Patterson were great late 1st round WR picks last year, but that was an anomaly. Previous picks in that range include Brian Quick, AJ Jenkins, Jonathan Baldwin...guys who aren't beating out Ricardo Lockette for playing time.

Yeah I agree, there's been numerous times tate has came up big and db Has gone ghost mode. It all depends on what they want, something none of us know.

Meh, don't agree on the fools gold thing. The Draft in general is a crap shoot, if they hit on the right pick they will teach them how to succeed. You can find a ton of examples either way.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

I would put a 1st round tender on DB ($2.8 mill), who is money and only gets better. I would let Tate walk, though I like his play (and the 3d down sideline catch he made). With PH on the field, Tate has almost disappeared. I'd keep Kearse and Lockette, and draft ASJ, who would give us another big-bodied receiver and red zone target. If Miller doesn't restructure, he'll have to walk.

I'd happily take a 2nd or 3rd. I saw tate open numerous times when he wasn't thrown to I just don't agree he disappears as much as people say. What if millet and db would cost the same amount? You're saying a wr is more valuable?

Really? Dissing Rice after the plays he made last year? Did you watch the Bears game? How about the Arizona Thursday night game? That was 34 points on the 2nd best defense in the league AT their house. As I recall, Seattle didn't score that many against AZ at home, and that's got a lot to do with Rice not being on the field.

Seriously, did you SEE the offense after he went out? Just because he didn't post 1300 yard seasons doesn't mean his value was zero. He opened things up for the other receivers and Seattle fans missed out on potential greatness because both he and Harvin were off the field. No one would have talked about Russell's slump.

The Super Bowl would have been 63-8 with Rice on the field.

Seriously yeah I did see the offense when he went out, I saw it almost THE ENTIRE TIME RICE WAS HURT WHILE HE WAS HERE. My argument isn't about talent, read my op. I'd much rather find his replacement and fill our team with people you can count on.

 

[Lynch Mob]

this is what I would do if I were the Hawks front office:
1) cut Rice. He's good but would cost too much and injury prone.

2) Doug Baldwin wants to be on a passing Offense BAD in my opinion. so put a 2nd or 3rd round tender on him and let the Colts or Redskins come get him.

3) Resign Tate if you can valuable on special teams and offense. I think he is more opposed to leaving seattle and might take the discount to stay.

4) Draft three tall pass catchers preferably two WR's and a TE.(B.coleman,J.Mathews,J.Janis)

5) if no good TE's in the draft give Jermichael Finley a one year prove deal.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

A) Rice won't be here under the same contract. Whether the team keeps him at a lower price tag or whether he even would take a lower contract is completely up in the air. I don't think it affects us much overall because even if we keep him at a lower price, he could still get cut if he's out performed by a younger guy.

True, but he's still taking away a spot from someone who could be developed. What if we cut the next db at training camp cause rice had his one healthy month during before the season? I don't think he deserves to be here but won't be surprised if he is.

B) Tate/Baldwin:

Two points with these guys....they aren't interchangeable, they don't play the same WR position. I don't know why people think they do. Baldwin doesn't replace Tate on the field at any point in time. With that said, this team was supposedly offered draft pick(s) for Baldwin in the pre season and turned them down. That says a lot. He was also our most clutch third down receiver. I don't expect him to go anywhere unless he really wants to (which I don't believe)

Regardless what they play it will affect our needs, and both will need to have contract issues dealt with at some point. Maybe them turning down picks means db was worth more, or maybe it was cause Percy was hurt, Sidney is made of glass and Kearse was raw. Who knows.

C) I can pretty much guarantee you the cap price for the Receivers will be higher this year. Even if you cut Rice and Keep Harvin it's going up significantly. Even replacing all the other vets with Rookies can't make up that difference. Unless you want to cut everyone except Harvin, expect to pay 18-20 million for receivers.


Meh, that's reasonable I guess. When people start talking about signing everyone and spending 25 Mill+ is when I start scratching my head. Idk who else you'd need to cut besides rice though currently.

D) The draft:

I can agree fully that tall receivers are better in our system, but it's not truly going to save us all the money you think it will. It will save us some money yes, but is WR truly our weakest position? As this season went that is an arguable position, but Harvin is the difference maker. He'll be ready to go at 100% to start next season. He's the game changer at the position we need. We can draft more depth. I think we should definitely draft a receiver, because we may be rid of Rice and we can't be sure we are keeping both Tate and Baldwin due to their Free Agency Status. We don't have great depth there, so drafting a WR is definitely a good idea. At the very least they could earn a spot over Lockette (although he has improved lately).

I'm no cap wizard but I'm Pretty comfortable saying a wr at the end of the first or 2nd will be a few million cheaper than re-signing guys, considering people want to cut our starting Te to save 4 or 5 Mill I'd say that's enough. And yes wr, or line, d line, make your case for any of them depending on who ends up leaving although I think it's in that order.
E)

Random idea:

I don't see us needing to move up, but I can easily see us making trades for future draft picks. We still have quite a young team now, so stockpiling picks in the future would likely be a better bet than to use them to move up at this point.

that may be the smarter/more realistic route given how stacked we are right now.
F)

One thing people forget when they say "just get rid of rice" is that there is a lot of trust that the team and the players are taking care of each other right now. Look at how well we treated MRob when we cut him and how well Leon said he was treated when we cut him. I say this so people understand that we don't just "be rid of" players who have given 100% to this team in their time here.

Again, Tate and Baldwin are as different as two WR can be in the positions they play so it's not wise to lump them together. Baldwin is more expendable than Tate as his role is also Harvin's role. Although he can play the slot when Harvin is in the backfield or running end arounds etc. With Harvin's injury issues so far, keeping Baldwin around is a smart idea. If you let Tate go, and Rice go, you are really putting a lot of faith in rookies or getting free agents. I'm not sure getting rid of everyone is the best thing you can do. A quarterback receiver working together over time makes them better. Putting in too many new guys will make it that much more difficult to get growth in the passing game. This is another reason the team may hold onto Rice at least up until his bonus is due. We'll need to have some decisions made in this department before then. I just don't know when his bonus is due. This part will play a key role

Well regardless of how well theyve handled things, it's still a business and people will be leaving you can't just be nice and keep everyone. I'm really not saying get rid of everyone, we obviously have another year with db noisy likely, I'm just throwing out possible scenarios and giving my opinion on how I'd handle them. You can think all you want what db wants to do, but my personal opinion is that he may want to leave possibly so that's why I tossed out the idea of getting something for him. The whole chemistry point is minimal as far as what we have going now, we rode our defense all season nothing we do at wr will kill us imo.

I have to make this point strongly...WR isn't our weakest position when you add percy to the mix. We need to get more Oline talent from the draft. This is something that is more important to our offense than WR hands down.

I agree we need to upgrade it, if oline is bpa I wouldn't be mad to see them pick up a stud hog.

In summation, we need to look a lot further than the WR position. We are going to be better in the position just by Harvin being healthy. We do need to look at upgrading our Offensive Line and we also need to take a good long look at the Defensive line as well. Assuming we re-sign Bennett to a decent deal, we are going to have $35+ million attached to the starters along the D-line. Look for some restructuring here to extend contracts of guys like Avril and Bryant and lower their cap value this year.

Agreed with a lot of that, o/d line def needs attention. I want them to be able to keep that d elite, if it comes down to letting some guys on offense walk to sign guys like bennet I'm going to support that. I realize theres different ways you can work out the cap, I'm just throwing out some of my opinions. And obviously just focused on one aspect (wrs) to narrow it down. I don't actually think all the problems fall onto the wrs or anything.

Hopefully my responses are legible as they got mixed in there, on my phone. Thanks for the response.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

this is what I would do if I were the Hawks front office:
1) cut Rice. He's good but would cost too much and injury prone.

2) Doug Baldwin wants to be on a passing Offense BAD in my opinion. so put a 2nd or 3rd round tender on him and let the Colts or Redskins come get him.

3) Resign Tate if you can valuable on special teams and offense. I think he is more opposed to leaving seattle and might take the discount to stay.

4) Draft three tall pass catchers preferably two WR's and a TE.(B.coleman,J.Mathews,J.Janis)

5) if no good TE's in the draft give Jermichael Finley a one year prove deal.

I would hire you to run my madden team in a second, I like the way you think. Totally agree, I get that same impression from these guys. We may not get anything for db though so everyone will probably be happy for another year. If db does leave everyone will be wishing they got that pick.

That's the beauty of not getting our guys is there will still be plenty of fa' s wanting to get on this team even if it's not everyone's first choice.

 

[kigenzun]

I'd like to trade back...BUT...
Unfortunately, nobody ever wants the last pick on the first day enough to want to trade up to #32. That's reality. :|

Personally, I'd love to trade back and get say #40 & #103, or #48 & #90, or some such...

HOWEVER, after witnessing the Greatest Total Team Effort in Super Bowl History... :thirishdrinkers:

Today, I am wondering if it might not be such a bad idea to trade #32 & #64 to get, say, Kelvin Benjamin at #17-20. :th2thumbs:
Let's face it, we need a future difference maker at the X, and its definitely worth considering a possible 'trade up strategy' such as this, in view of our current depth to 53, future team salary cap restraints, and Especially, if Rice & Tate both leave in the coming months.

After all, remember, that's how Jerry Rice was acquired for 2 scrubs (Trevor Matich, C, BYU & Ben Thomas, DE, Auburn) after the 49ers first Lombardi...

Here's the proof quoted from Wiki: In the first round of the 1985 NFL draft, Dallas had the 17th selection and San Francisco had the last (as Super Bowl champions from 1984). 49ers coach Bill Walsh reportedly sought Rice after watching highlights of Rice the Saturday night before San Francisco was to play the Houston Oilers on October 21, 1984. On draft day (April 30, 1985), the 49ers traded its first two picks for New England's first-round choice, the 16th selection overall (the teams also swapped third-round picks as part of the deal), and selected Rice before, as some report, the Cowboys were intending to pick him.

CAN YOU SAY SEAHAWKS DYNASTY?
LET'S TAKE A PAGE OUT OF THE GREAT BILL WALSH'S PLAYBOOK, AND BEAT THE NINERS & PANTHERS TO THE PUNCH!!!
LET'S TRADE UP AND GET KELVIN BENJAMIN!!! :3:

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

First, I don't really agree with the comment that we "ditch Rice no matter how cheap he is." Seriously ? The guys makes plays, and has a good chemistry with Wilson. Ever notice that when Wilson scrambles around, it's almost always Rice that ends up with the ball ? Is he worth the contract ? Nope. I'm with Chris: he's damaged goods and won't garner a big contract on the open market. He played through injury (anyone watching could see he wasn't right...that was his knee that finally went) and when he did go out, our passing game took a hit once teams started putting their best CB on Tate. If he comes back at a minimum, I'd take him, but point taken about developing new talent.

Tate. I love the guy, but he's really inconsistent. His best value, honestly, is as a punt returner, as he touches the ball more consistently there. He'll have good games like the Rams (he matches up well with Jenkins) then disappear for 2-3 game streches. I wouldn't overpay the guy, but he's definately worth bringing back.

Baldwin. If I'm keeping Tate or Baldwin, I'm keeping Baldwin. He's clutch; he makes every big play on 3rd down when we need him now that Rice is gone. He has better chemistry with Wilson. He didn't miss any time this year that I remember (yeah, I know he gets dinged). I'd agree with tendering him high and keeping him on a value contract if possible.

Kearse. I think he's going to get better. I'd like to extend him before he costs us too much. He's going to be a guy that wants money when he starts producing. I think he progresses to a solid #2 maybe #3 WR. He makes big plays but I'd like to see him be a bit more consistent. All of our WRs are good blockers.

TE position. Willson is going to have a breakout year next year, IMO. His blocking got a lot better the last half of the season and he's really damned good at sealing the edge, as he has the speed to get out there and the strength to pin the DE/OLB inside. Miller is an elite level blocker and an above average receiver. He's good at finding the holes in the zone, but I fear he's too slow to create much of a mismatch against LBers. His hands are elite though. If we got a guy like Sefarian Jenkins (I don't know how good his blocking is) it would make our 2 TE sets elite. On a rookie contract, we could probably afford to keep all 3 TE's. McCoy will come back to compete, but I don't see him making the squad.

I'd agree with drafting a good WR, but I'd like to go bpa at the position starting at about the 3rd round. Our FO hasn't been the greatest at hitting on WRs in the draft. We're also going to have Harvin (hopefullly) all year next year, which automatically makes an incredible difference. I'd prefer to go bpa Interior OL as soon as possible, but I trust this FO enough to let them grab whoever the hell they want with the 32nd pick of the 1st round. which feels AWESOME to say.

A lot of my comments have a lot of variables but I'm 100% serious about rice.
Well maybe you're right and rw does have great chemistry with rice...my thought is why take away from another guys chance to develop that? Rw is primed to do work for the next ten years we need to build around him for the future. Rice will never ever be there to depend on, even if he gets healthy for a bit he will anyways disrupt the continuity of our offense. Just not worth it imo.

So tate gets covered by the other teams number 1 when rice is out and that doesn't factor into your evaluation of him compared to db? Don't get it. I understand db makes clutch catches and they should try to keep him but you can't keep everyone and he's not as much a must keep as people say imo, especially not with how much we throw.

Yes kearse is pretty money, we need to keep churning in New cheap talent like all these guys. I believe it's Very doable and a realistic way to stay adequate at wr and smarter way to handle a position you don't use a lot. Draft and replace, Draft and replace. You just can't afford to invest into a position used like that.

That tight end set would be very nasty, I'm kind of on the fence whether they should Draft one high but If they liked someone enough I can't say I'd be mad, that would be fun to watch that much talent lined up.

I don't agree with anyone that says we miss of wrs In the Draft, not compared to any other position, I Mean where did that come from? Cause they missed on a couple 4th rounders? Imo that just means they haven't even really tried. Moffit, carpenter, that dt from Florida, that predator safety, trading a 3rd for clip board jesus, I could keep going,.. point is you can't succeed without falling sometimes, and personally I don't see drafting tate and a couple 4th rounders as trying hard at all.

Really this thread is splitting hairs, I hope they take a wr but I won't be mad whoever they take, this merely my attempt at arm chair gm of the year.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

I'd like to trade back...BUT...
Unfortunately, nobody ever wants the last pick on the first day enough to want to trade up to #32. That's reality. :|

Personally, I'd love to trade back and get say #40 & #103, or #48 & #90, or some such...

HOWEVER, after witnessing the Greatest Total Team Effort in Super Bowl History... :thirishdrinkers:

Today, I am wondering if it might not be such a bad idea to trade #32 & #64 to get, say, Kelvin Benjamin at #17-20. :th2thumbs:
Let's face it, we need a future difference maker at the X, and its definitely worth considering a possible 'trade up strategy' such as this, in view of our current depth to 53, future team salary cap restraints, and Especially, if Rice & Tate both leave in the coming months.

After all, remember, that's how Jerry Rice was acquired for 2 scrubs (Trevor Matich, C, BYU & Ben Thomas, DE, Auburn) after the 49ers first Lombardi...

Here's the proof quoted from Wiki: In the first round of the 1985 NFL draft, Dallas had the 17th selection and San Francisco had the last (as Super Bowl champions from 1984). 49ers coach Bill Walsh reportedly sought Rice after watching highlights of Rice the Saturday night before San Francisco was to play the Houston Oilers on October 21, 1984. On draft day (April 30, 1985), the 49ers traded its first two picks for New England's first-round choice, the 16th selection overall (the teams also swapped third-round picks as part of the deal), and selected Rice before, as some report, the Cowboys were intending to pick him.

CAN YOU SAY SEAHAWKS DYNASTY?
LET'S TAKE A PAGE OUT OF THE GREAT BILL WALSH'S PLAYBOOK, AND BEAT THE NINERS & PANTHERS TO THE PUNCH!!!
LET'S TRADE UP AND GET KELVIN BENJAMIN!!! :3:

Gosh trading back makes me want to bang my head against a pile of rusty nails. People on this board have the same mindset I do about girls. ..quantity over quality...jk. (Or am I). :thirishdrinkers:

But obviously I love the idea of trading up. I would be thrilled, seems very different from what they tend to do but we're also in a very different place then we were a few years ago. It seems like we should be able to find a big X wr at some point but if they need to trade up to do it I don't see why not. I think it'll be hard to guess where some of these guys will get drafted till after the combine.

 

[Seeker]

injuries are an important factor when assessing a player.
remember how bad of a year Baldwin had in year 2, then you saw that pic of his banged up shoulder/collarbone.

Rice was so banged up this year he had to be flown on a private jet to Sweden for some procedure and played hurt the whole year. ironically when he started doing work was the game he got injured for the season.

He may be gone due to wanting to keep his money, but if his agent were smart he would restructure on a short term contract and ball out.

 

[hawk45]

Rice is going to be on a "prove-it" contract no matter what. This team is a destination for that type of player, although more so on the defensive side. I see a huge chance Rice is back on a prove-it deal for us, which works for both sides. In fact the only way I do not see that happening is if he gets a prove-it offer from a team in need of a #1 WR where he believes his chances to put up numbers is better. Like a NE or NO or something.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Rice is going to be on a "prove-it" contract no matter what. This team is a destination for that type of player, although more so on the defensive side. I see a huge chance Rice is back on a prove-it deal for us, which works for both sides. In fact the only way I do not see that happening is if he gets a prove-it offer from a team in need of a #1 WR where he believes his chances to put up numbers is better. Like a NE or NO or something.

Idk what you want him to prove? I can sort of understand people making the argument that he's worth keeping for cheap if he can get back to playing like he used to for 8 games a season, but if you're expecting him to prove he can be healthy in general you just let me know when that happens, you won't miss it cause a consistently healthy rice will be escorted by santa and the easter bunny.

I just Think Seattle is too good to be the destination for a guy like this. We now command the top level prove it contracts, guys that had an off year, Guys that had one injury on a contract year, vets that want a super bowl ring, heck even elite level players that are injury prone at worst, we don't need b level players that have been hurt their entire career...I just think we're too good to waste roster Spots on anything less.

injuries are an important factor when assessing a player.
remember how bad of a year Baldwin had in year 2, then you saw that pic of his banged up shoulder/collarbone.


He may be gone due to wanting to keep his money, but if his agent were smart he would restructure on a short term contract and ball out.

I couldn't agree with you more, that's what most people's problem that want rice back is, that they are not assessing the fact that HE'S ALWAYS HURT lol. How much more obvious can it get I'm not really sure, maybe if he didn't have legs?

 

[AgentDib]

Gosh trading back makes me want to bang my head against a pile of rusty nails. People on this board have the same mindset I do about girls. ..quantity over quality...jk. (Or am I). :thirishdrinkers:

Your analogy would work if there was no uncertainty and you knew that players who were drafted higher would turn out to be the best players. That is underestimating how much uncertainty there is in the draft; half of the players drafted in the second round are going to outperform half of the players drafted in the first round.

A better analogy for trading back is buying more lottery tickets. We are increasing our chance to find quality players by taking more shots, whereas trading up is putting all of your eggs into a very frail basket that reduces your chances of coming away with a star. The Seahawks are perfectly geared to bring in a lot of rookies and have them compete for limited roles to find those late round gems.

Rice is absolutely undeserving of ever wearing a seahawk jersey again for the rest of his life

This really is the silliest thing I have read on here in a long time. Our passing offense was significantly better with him than without him, he was Wilson's favorite target, and his loss was the catalyst for opposing teams to play man coverage on our remaining WR's and stack the box against the running game. There is a significant benefit to having Rice on our team. That benefit may not be worth his current cost, and we may release him as a result or ask him to take a pay cut.

Calling Rice "undeserving" implies he doesn't benefit our team. How do you know we would have won the titans, panthers or cardinals game without him? Look past the box scores to the actual impact. He was the reason why the Cardinals did not play man coverage in our first game, and his absence was the reason why the Cardinals did play man coverage in the rematch.

There was a thread maybe two months ago where half of the forum or more decided that they were "done" with Harvin for the year because they were fed up with injuries. Without calling out people individually, notice that many of those same people were happy to jump right back on the bandwagon once they saw he would be playing.

 

[Marvin49]

I'm kinda surprised here.

I thought you guys would like your WRs much more than it appears many of you do.

I think I like Baldwin the best (outside of Harvin of course). He just seems to be there to bail out Wilson just when you need him to the most. I'd take him in SF in a heartbeat.

 

[AgentDib]

ADB is a restricted FA, it is very unlikely that he will be going anywhere.

 

[hawk45]

Rice is going to be on a "prove-it" contract no matter what. This team is a destination for that type of player, although more so on the defensive side. I see a huge chance Rice is back on a prove-it deal for us, which works for both sides. In fact the only way I do not see that happening is if he gets a prove-it offer from a team in need of a #1 WR where he believes his chances to put up numbers is better. Like a NE or NO or something.

Idk what you want him to prove? I can sort of understand people making the argument that he's worth keeping for cheap if he can get back to playing like he used to for 8 games a season, but if you're expecting him to prove he can be healthy in general you just let me know when that happens, you won't miss it cause a consistently healthy rice will be escorted by santa and the easter bunny.

I just Think Seattle is too good to be the destination for a guy like this. We now command the top level prove it contracts, guys that had an off year, Guys that had one injury on a contract year, vets that want a super bowl ring, heck even elite level players that are injury prone at worst, we don't need b level players that have been hurt their entire career...I just think we're too good to waste roster Spots on anything less.
?

A "prove-it" deal is a short deal for not too much money where we get to benefit from his skills for another year while we still draft a receiver if we desire. The receiver we draft hedges against a Rice injury, and Rice hedges against the receiver sucking. The idea is not that if he plays well we then sign Rice for 10 years assuming he'll be healthy. The idea is a mutually beneficial arrangement where, if he can stay healthy, he contributes to our chances while improving his worth on the open market.

Tall receivers with huge catch radii are nowhere near as common as you represent and your ignoring that fact is a giant anvil weighing down every other facet of the argument. Amusing that you are the one to point fingers at others as being in fantasy-land given the gaping hole in your reasoning. You're taking the position that Rice should not be back at any price because the roster spot is more valuable and our magic draft pick makes him expendable even if we lose Tate and/or Baldwin. There is literally zero downside to bringing him in at the right price to compete with whomever we draft, if we draft a receiver.

 

[MOCHawk]

They are all pedestrian appetizers.

 

[12th_Bob]

I want to keep Baldwin just cause him and Sherman are the bane of Jim up here when we play the 49ers.

I don't see a good enough reason to not have all the players we got go into pre-season and duke it out for a roster spot. (including Rice etc.) If they don't win the roster spot then that is fair enough, and honestly, these guys won't have a hard time finding employment in the near future. Tate might get paid to go to Jacksonville, Cleveland, or Oakland, maybe even Denver (lol), or he could stay here, I don't think he has hit his ceiling by any means either it's just going to come down to how much Thomas is going to cost and that is probably double what Kam got, then locking up Bennett too probably at 3 years 20 million or so.

I'm just really interested to see how they do it, but some of the changes won't be painless.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

ADB is a restricted FA, it is very unlikely that he will be going anywhere.

Well i agree. But it's also Very unlikely we keep all our guys either, which is why I started a discussion of different reasons people could leave.

I'm kinda surprised here.

I thought you guys would like your WRs much more than it appears many of you do.

I think I like Baldwin the best (outside of Harvin of course). He just seems to be there to bail out Wilson just when you need him to the most. I'd take him in SF in a heartbeat.

Meh, this isn't a hate thread outside of Sidney rice lol, more just a discussion of different variables to consider other than who simply is the better wr. I agree I like baldwin, I just think there's more that goes into these things when you have to cap crunch and have personalities to deal with. I'm not the only one who thinks db might want to go somewhere he'll Get more catches. Obviously I'd prefer to keep the same exact team besides rice but that's not how this works.