Talk some sense into me!!!: WR edition. Enter at own risk.

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Your analogy would work if there was no uncertainty and you knew that players who were drafted higher would turn out to be the best players. That is underestimating how much uncertainty there is in the draft; half of the players drafted in the second round are going to outperform half of the players drafted in the first round.

A better analogy for trading back is buying more lottery tickets. We are increasing our chance to find quality players by taking more shots, whereas trading up is putting all of your eggs into a very frail basket that reduces your chances of coming away with a star. The Seahawks are perfectly geared to bring in a lot of rookies and have them compete for limited roles to find those late round gems.

This really is the silliest thing I have read on here in a long time. Our passing offense was significantly better with him than without him, he was Wilson's favorite target, and his loss was the catalyst for opposing teams to play man coverage on our remaining WR's and stack the box against the running game. There is a significant benefit to having Rice on our team. That benefit may not be worth his current cost, and we may release him as a result or ask him to take a pay cut.

Calling Rice "undeserving" implies he doesn't benefit our team. How do you know we would have won the titans, panthers or cardinals game without him? Look past the box scores to the actual impact. He was the reason why the Cardinals did not play man coverage in our first game, and his absence was the reason why the Cardinals did play man coverage in the rematch.

There was a thread maybe two months ago where half of the forum or more decided that they were "done" with Harvin for the year because they were fed up with injuries. Without calling out people individually, notice that many of those same people were happy to jump right back on the bandwagon once they saw he would be playing.

Ah my friend, my analogy works Cause it's keeping in mind even when I get my first pick of the bunch my beer goggles can cause me to pick a fatty. In the end, it's fun either way til finding out in the morning and your odds will still always be better when your choosing higher no matter what Devils advocate point you want to throw out.

The lottery ticket analogy has flaws too, you can't combine them to make them a stronger ticket. Why are guys generally ranked higher? Cause they are bigger/stronger/faster ect, you can't coach that. The reason I can understand your argument is cause our front office is great at finding late round gems, I just think it's a little flawed to think that's how it works for everyone, not to mention our roster is loaded and we don't have tons of space to let those raw players develope.

I can't Keep explaining my point. Me calling him undeserving has everything to do with him being hurt and little to do with talent. Idk how you think a guy improves a team that doesn't play, and idk how cutting into the development of talent and chemistry with younger guys so rice can play 8 games a season helps rw but you are entitled to your opinion.

Percy hardly proved anything other than what we already knew not sure what that comment was about. You can make all your comments about cardinals games you want, we won the super bowl without rice, what more proof do u need that we don't need him and that we're better off developing cheap young talent on a cap strapped team?

 

[Marvin49]

ADB is a restricted FA, it is very unlikely that he will be going anywhere.

Well i agree. But it's also Very unlikely we keep all our guys either, which is why I started a discussion of different reasons people could leave.

I'm kinda surprised here.

I thought you guys would like your WRs much more than it appears many of you do.

I think I like Baldwin the best (outside of Harvin of course). He just seems to be there to bail out Wilson just when you need him to the most. I'd take him in SF in a heartbeat.

Meh, this isn't a hate thread outside of Sidney rice lol, more just a discussion of different variables to consider other than who simply is the better wr. I agree I like baldwin, I just think there's more that goes into these things when you have to cap crunch and have personalities to deal with. I'm not the only one who thinks db might want to go somewhere he'll Get more catches. Obviously I'd prefer to keep the same exact team besides rice but that's not how this works.

I get it...Niners in similar crunch...

...just thought people would have a higher opinion of him. That guy drives me nuts. He's not great in any one aspect of his game, but he just seems to be clutch...always there right when you need him to make a play the most.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

A "prove-it" deal is a short deal for not too much money where we get to benefit from his skills for another year while we still draft a receiver if we desire. The receiver we draft hedges against a Rice injury, and Rice hedges against the receiver sucking. The idea is not that if he plays well we then sign Rice for 10 years assuming he'll be healthy. The idea is a mutually beneficial arrangement where, if he can stay healthy, he contributes to our chances while improving his worth on the open market.

Tall receivers with huge catch radii are nowhere near as common as you represent and your ignoring that fact is a giant anvil weighing down every other facet of the argument. Amusing that you are the one to point fingers at others as being in fantasy-land given the gaping hole in your reasoning. You're taking the position that Rice should not be back at any price because the roster spot is more valuable and our magic draft pick makes him expendable even if we lose Tate and/or Baldwin. There is literally zero downside to bringing him in at the right price to compete with whomever we draft, if we draft a receiver.

I understand that point about hedging a young guy sucking, I just don't value it like you do. At least you acknowledge we need a new x. I'm just saying I'm pretty sure we just won the super bowl without rice, I don't see why you'd need to hedge anything from someone that had so little to do with our success. Not to mention having rice prove anything is insane, where have you been the last 4 years? He's already proven he can't stay on the field.

I never said there's lots of good big wrs, but there's plenty of prospects to take a chance on this year and they can't contribute much less than Sidney braiding his hair on the bench, which is the gigantic anvil you're ignoring.

I never said I wanted both tate and db gone, a rookie would either rise to the competition or simply be a 4th string wr so not sure how that's banking on any magic Draft pick. To sit there and accuse my argument of being so flawed while your whole argument is based off of SIDNEY GLASS RICE proving he can be healthy...lol.

What we have to lose is a roster spot to a young guy to either replace sidney, or wait and develope. If that young guy is legit right away it gives us another cheap young stud and the flexibility to spend our money elsewhere. If rice wins the spot, you have one less plan for the future and one up coming headache. You build rosters around the Draft, not aging vets that if they do pan out will cost twice as much money the next year.

 

[AgentDib]

your odds will still always be better when your choosing higher no matter what Devils advocate point you want to throw out.

You are choosing higher but less often. As a pure hypothetical, let's say that you have a 50% chance of getting a stud with the #32 pick, a 40% chance of getting a stud with the #42 pick, and a 30% chance of getting with the #70 pick. If you trade down from #32 to #42 and pick up the #70, then you increase your odds of getting a stud from 50% to 70%. Quantity becomes quality. The more uncertainty there is the stronger this effect becomes, and my contention is that draft uncertainty is HUGE. Alvin Bailey, Doug Baldwin, Michael Bowie, James Carpenter, Kam Chancellor, Derrick Coleman, Jermaine Kearse, Jeremy Lane, Byron Maxwell, Mike Morgan, O'Brien Schofield, De'Shawn Shead, Richard Sherman, Malcom Smith, J.R. Sweezy, Walter Thurmond, Luke Willson, Russell Wilson, K.J. Wright level of uncertainty. More uncertainty than I can even adequately describe here.

not to mention our roster is loaded and we don't have tons of space to let those raw players develope.

We will have a bunch of rookies surprise people and make the team next year, but more importantly we can bring 90 people to training camp. You can do a lot of sorting out in that period, run five rookie receivers with potential against Richard Sherman for a month and you will figure out which of those has the chance to be something special and which you can move on from.

Me calling him undeserving has everything to do with him being hurt and little to do with talent. Idk how you think a guy improves a team that doesn't play

He did play half the season, he did contribute to our early season wins, and those wins absolutely contributed to us being in position to have HFA and win the Super Bowl. He should wear his ring with pride, which is why I am objecting to your terminology here. It would be stupid to bank on Rice being healthy next year, but it is equally short sighted to be certain he could not contribute. There is a price out there that compensates him for the amount he is most likely to produce, and if he wants to play for that price then it would be bad business for the Seahawks not to consider it.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

I get it...Niners in similar crunch...

...just thought people would have a higher opinion of him. That guy drives me nuts. He's not great in any one aspect of his game, but he just seems to be clutch...always there right when you need him to make a play the most.

Eh, I'm probably in the minority that thinks he's not a must re-sign, if it doesn't seem that way in here its probably just cause most people got pissed off and left after reading the first couple sentences of my op.lol.

I think db is legit. But I also think when defenses constantly stack the box any adequate wr should be able to get open. Our run game sets up the pass obviously, I just don't think you need to break the bank on wrs so it so it all depends on what people want to be paid. If we throw money at offense it should be oline if anything

 

[hawk45]

A "prove-it" deal is a short deal for not too much money where we get to benefit from his skills for another year while we still draft a receiver if we desire. The receiver we draft hedges against a Rice injury, and Rice hedges against the receiver sucking. The idea is not that if he plays well we then sign Rice for 10 years assuming he'll be healthy. The idea is a mutually beneficial arrangement where, if he can stay healthy, he contributes to our chances while improving his worth on the open market.

Tall receivers with huge catch radii are nowhere near as common as you represent and your ignoring that fact is a giant anvil weighing down every other facet of the argument. Amusing that you are the one to point fingers at others as being in fantasy-land given the gaping hole in your reasoning. You're taking the position that Rice should not be back at any price because the roster spot is more valuable and our magic draft pick makes him expendable even if we lose Tate and/or Baldwin. There is literally zero downside to bringing him in at the right price to compete with whomever we draft, if we draft a receiver.

I understand that point about hedging a young guy sucking, I just don't value it like you do. At least you acknowledge we need a new x. I'm just saying I'm pretty sure we just won the super bowl without rice, I don't see why you'd need to hedge anything from someone that had so little to do with our success. Not to mention having rice prove anything is insane, where have you been the last 4 years? He's already proven he can't stay on the field.

I never said there's lots of good big wrs, but there's plenty of prospects to take a chance on this year and they can't contribute much less than Sidney braiding his hair on the bench, which is the gigantic anvil you're ignoring.

I never said I wanted both tate and db gone, a rookie would either rise to the competition or simply be a 4th string wr so not sure how that's banking on any magic Draft pick. To sit there and accuse my argument of being so flawed while your whole argument is based off of SIDNEY GLASS RICE proving he can be healthy...lol.

What we have to lose is a roster spot to a young guy to either replace sidney, or wait and develope. If that young guy is legit right away it gives us another cheap young stud and the flexibility to spend our money elsewhere. If rice wins the spot, you have one less plan for the future and one up coming headache. You build rosters around the Draft, not aging vets that if they do pan out will cost twice as much money the next year.

The scenario of Rice and a young receiver hedging each other for different reasons doesn't ignore his injury history, it takes it into account. Acknowledging the value of the hedge (although we disagree as to the magnitude) in one breath and then claiming I'm ignoring Sidney's injury history in the next is puzzling.

You also fail to understand the paint-by-numbers explanation of the prove-it contract. It doesn't matter if our FO has already decided they never want the guy long-term, the proving Sid would do would be to other suitors on the market. I personally wouldn't want to spend a lot of money on him long-terms no matter what he does next year, but doing *something* next year is his only chance to get anything at all on the market, he knows it, we know he knows it, this is the entire basis of why we can have this hedge on the cheap. Tell me I'm wrong that Sidney does not understand that with his injury history, his only choice is a 1-year deal to prove *something* to would-be suitors.

You don't have to want Tate and DB gone to understand that, in fact, one or both may be gone and how that makes the hedge more desirable.

We do lose a roster spot if we keep Sidney but your implication that this means we cannot also draft a young receiver to replace Sidney is false and intentionally misleading. That roster spot we lose could be some special teams 3rd-stringer.

 

[bbsplitter]

We just won the superbowl and I love every single player on this team right now for that, even Brandon Browner that idiot. That being said, unfortunately this is the NFL and business goes on.

I wish we could keep both Baldwin and Tate, but I just don't see it, I think they and the team are destined to go their seperate ways. Baldwin wants to be the best, and now has a superbowl victory under his belt. He really has the opposite situation as any older player wanting to sign a cheap deal with seattle to get into the big game. He has already won it, and is at the beginning of his career. I don't say he leaves for money necessarily, but for the chance to put up the type of numbers that he only could being in a Tom Brady led offense or something to that effect.

Don't get me wrong I like Tate, but I would almost rather see him walk than try to retain him for any amount of money. A lot of you have brought up his electric performances against the Rams, and that is a compelling showcase of his skillset. But for me, this almost indicates a lack of effort. It's almost like Tate has to get AGGRAVATED to play at his best. Someone on here said that Harvin is like Tate 2.0 except with a whole bunch of gears, and I completely agree with that, with one addition; also more consistent effort. Kearse has come a long ways and I would be fine seeing him on the outside to replace Tate until we develop a big body WR. Especially since Kearse is probably the best run blocking WR in the NFC.

I would also release Rice. I am sure everyone appreciates what he has done, but it's simply not in the mindset of our FO. Mike Rob I believe was 10X more beloved than Rice was, an excellent leader, and our FO let him go because he got sick, and he is a FB. We are talking about a WR who shredding his ACL. I think he is a solid WR, but I just dont see it happening for any amount of money, unless we are literally talking like a first round pick salary. Which I believe he deserves more than on a team where he can have a fresh start who are willing to accept his risks.

I personally would be EXTREMELY excited to watch Harvin and Lockette on the field at the same time. Imagine the speed! And Lockette isnt a small man either. He seemed to be developing nicely until he dropped a wide open deep ball from RW in an early game and then they kinda just phased him out. But I'm pretty sure he has capitalized on every chance he has had since then, as limited as those have been. Kearse and Lockette on the outside, with harvin in the slot. Draft some developmental talent along the draft, but I wouldn't necessarily say it would have to be Round 1 priority. We also have Bryan Walters and such who have frequented our practice squad.

Overall, I agree that this is probably our least important position on our offense because of our scheme, and when the FO traded for Harvin, and gave him the contract they gave him, they expected him to be "the man" with a lesser supporting cast.

 

[Jville]

ADB is a restricted FA, it is very unlikely that he will be going anywhere.

Well i agree. But it's also Very unlikely we keep all our guys either, which is why I started a discussion of different reasons people could leave.

I'm kinda surprised here.

I thought you guys would like your WRs much more than it appears many of you do.

I think I like Baldwin the best (outside of Harvin of course). He just seems to be there to bail out Wilson just when you need him to the most. I'd take him in SF in a heartbeat.

Meh, this isn't a hate thread outside of Sidney rice lol, more just a discussion of different variables to consider other than who simply is the better wr. I agree I like baldwin, I just think there's more that goes into these things when you have to cap crunch and have personalities to deal with. I'm not the only one who thinks db might want to go somewhere he'll Get more catches. Obviously I'd prefer to keep the same exact team besides rice but that's not how this works.

I get it...Niners in similar crunch...

...just thought people would have a higher opinion of him. That guy drives me nuts. He's not great in any one aspect of his game, but he just seems to be clutch...always there right when you need him to make a play the most.

IMO the OP has an incomplete understanding of Seattle's wide receivers and their fit.

I think most of us have a strong appreciation for Doug Baldwin and value him as a Seahawk receiver. Baldwin leads by example with his preparation during the week and game day dependability.

 

[chris98251]

Not Get rid of everyone you got the most explosive wr in the game and kearse who's proven he can play last time I checked. Yeah dude I'm saying you don't prioritize signings so your 3rd and 4th string wrs are great on a run first team. I actually said you keep one or the other as long as you can do it affordable.

I respect our fan base's loyalties, but Rice is absolutely undeserving of ever wearing a seahawk jersey again for the rest of his life. I think its pretty much general consensus he gets cut/restructured. But I have no idea why people would even "want him if he was cheap."

This is one.

I think we should throw a tender on DB, get a draft pick if we can. and happily send him off to a team like the colts where he can be most happy thriving under a heavier passing attack.

This is two

keeping that in mind, why would you not save money and let players walk at our weakest position?? i wouldnt be heart broke to see tate walk, draft a wr or 2 and end up watching both tate and db walk in favor of new cheap talent to develop, that is the only possibly way (penny pinching) we ever maintain a legendary D like we currently have.

This is three and four

You continue to follow up with cut Rice, let Doug walk and Tate walk tender Baldwin for a draft pick, we will safe millions on a drafted WR in the first round over our veterans.

Bring in off the street guys if your picks don't pan out etc.

Fantasy football much? you think Wilson is running for his life now, get rid of his whole WR core and see how good he will look. I would swear you were a troll by the amount of hate being spewed on the WR's that just sealed our Super bowl.

They may not be the forefront of the offense, but get rid of themn and see how much double teaming and beating up Harvin can take with nothing to offset him and make people pay for trying to cover him that way. Lets see how far we get when teams stack the box and just need to cover one receiver. This offense functions because of balance and threast all over, you can love the defense but you still need an offense.

Were on notice as public enemy number one next year, every team is looking at us as a feather in their cap if they beat us, every team in the NFC West wants to shut us up and shut us down, we will have 6 games intra division that are going to be beatdowns.

You need depth to survive that kind of pressure, especially after a long season lest you forget how we came back after 2005, guys didn;t get as long to heal and we were right back in it.

Rices contract and Millers contract will not be what they initially were. Tate and a extension of Doug won't be bank breakers.

If we need anything it's better push and protection for Wilson at the Gaurd position, We need to open up better holes and protect.

We have a lot of IR guys and guys on PS that have been waiting in the wings, last years draft picks, our D line should be sound with those additions and what happens in the draft. Draft more WR's and see if they can displace anyone sure. Cut our guys and roll the dice if you want to repeat not so smart.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

your odds will still always be better when your choosing higher no matter what Devils advocate point you want to throw out.

You are choosing higher but less often. As a pure hypothetical, let's say that you have a 50% chance of getting a stud with the #32 pick, a 40% chance of getting a stud with the #42 pick, and a 30% chance of getting with the #70 pick. If you trade down from #32 to #42 and pick up the #70, then you increase your odds of getting a stud from 50% to 70%. Quantity becomes quality. The more uncertainty there is the stronger this effect becomes, and my contention is that draft uncertainty is HUGE. Alvin Bailey, Doug Baldwin, Michael Bowie, James Carpenter, Kam Chancellor, Derrick Coleman, Jermaine Kearse, Jeremy Lane, Byron Maxwell, Mike Morgan, O'Brien Schofield, De'Shawn Shead, Richard Sherman, Malcom Smith, J.R. Sweezy, Walter Thurmond, Luke Willson, Russell Wilson, K.J. Wright level of uncertainty. More uncertainty than I can even adequately describe here.



well idk about those numbers but i will certainly agree that our team is great at finding those gems, which is why ill also admit while i wouldnt enjoy trading back, i wouldnt necessarily be mad, i trust our front office more than that obviously. i dont care to look up the numbers, but if i had to guess i would say finding big/somewhat athletic WRs in the later rounds is probably harder than some other positions and id take my 50% chance this draft knowing theres some guys that may fall to us. Just cause weve enjoyed our success in the later rounds doesnt take away from the reason certain people are drafted higher, why even keep any picks in the first 3 rounds if it doesnt matter? generally the most elite physical talent gets picked there you cant totally disregard that just cause weve missed on a couple guys.

not to mention our roster is loaded and we don't have tons of space to let those raw players develope.

We will have a bunch of rookies surprise people and make the team next year, but more importantly we can bring 90 people to training camp. You can do a lot of sorting out in that period, run five rookie receivers with potential against Richard Sherman for a month and you will figure out which of those has the chance to be something special and which you can move on from.


I agree that cant hurt running against our D, but I still think were getting a little spoiled finding all these studs that pan out so well, keep in mind a lot of these guys you previously named off took a year or 2 to develop themselves, a luxury we wont have being such a good team, i still stick to my guns on this factor even as good as our guys are at judging talent.

Me calling him undeserving has everything to do with him being hurt and little to do with talent. Idk how you think a guy improves a team that doesn't play

He did play half the season, he did contribute to our early season wins, and those wins absolutely contributed to us being in position to have HFA and win the Super Bowl. He should wear his ring with pride, which is why I am objecting to your terminology here. It would be stupid to bank on Rice being healthy next year, but it is equally short sighted to be certain he could not contribute. There is a price out there that compensates him for the amount he is most likely to produce, and if he wants to play for that price then it would be bad business for the Seahawks not to consider it.

I just dont agree. We go to the superbowl with or without sidneys 15 catches, i wont say thats a fact...but i really dont know how you could say otherwise. Its not that he wouldnt contribute, if hes back next year i wont cry about it. I just dont think hes worth keeping. Time to develop young talent and reload not depend on injury prone vets, we will have to agree to disagree. but if youre simply saying what he has to offer is worth keeping around for the 9 games he plays then i get it, i just dont think that helps RWs continuity with wrs as much as people claim it does with the chemistry comments.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

A "prove-it" deal is a short deal for not too much money where we get to benefit from his skills for another year while we still draft a receiver if we desire. The receiver we draft hedges against a Rice injury, and Rice hedges against the receiver sucking. The idea is not that if he plays well we then sign Rice for 10 years assuming he'll be healthy. The idea is a mutually beneficial arrangement where, if he can stay healthy, he contributes to our chances while improving his worth on the open market.

Tall receivers with huge catch radii are nowhere near as common as you represent and your ignoring that fact is a giant anvil weighing down every other facet of the argument. Amusing that you are the one to point fingers at others as being in fantasy-land given the gaping hole in your reasoning. You're taking the position that Rice should not be back at any price because the roster spot is more valuable and our magic draft pick makes him expendable even if we lose Tate and/or Baldwin. There is literally zero downside to bringing him in at the right price to compete with whomever we draft, if we draft a receiver.

I understand that point about hedging a young guy sucking, I just don't value it like you do. At least you acknowledge we need a new x. I'm just saying I'm pretty sure we just won the super bowl without rice, I don't see why you'd need to hedge anything from someone that had so little to do with our success. Not to mention having rice prove anything is insane, where have you been the last 4 years? He's already proven he can't stay on the field.

I never said there's lots of good big wrs, but there's plenty of prospects to take a chance on this year and they can't contribute much less than Sidney braiding his hair on the bench, which is the gigantic anvil you're ignoring.

I never said I wanted both tate and db gone, a rookie would either rise to the competition or simply be a 4th string wr so not sure how that's banking on any magic Draft pick. To sit there and accuse my argument of being so flawed while your whole argument is based off of SIDNEY GLASS RICE proving he can be healthy...lol.

What we have to lose is a roster spot to a young guy to either replace sidney, or wait and develope. If that young guy is legit right away it gives us another cheap young stud and the flexibility to spend our money elsewhere. If rice wins the spot, you have one less plan for the future and one up coming headache. You build rosters around the Draft, not aging vets that if they do pan out will cost twice as much money the next year.

The scenario of Rice and a young receiver hedging each other for different reasons doesn't ignore his injury history, it takes it into account. Acknowledging the value of the hedge (although we disagree as to the magnitude) in one breath and then claiming I'm ignoring Sidney's injury history in the next is puzzling.

You also fail to understand the paint-by-numbers explanation of the prove-it contract. It doesn't matter if our FO has already decided they never want the guy long-term, the proving Sid would do would be to other suitors on the market. I personally wouldn't want to spend a lot of money on him long-terms no matter what he does next year, but doing *something* next year is his only chance to get anything at all on the market, he knows it, we know he knows it, this is the entire basis of why we can have this hedge on the cheap. Tell me I'm wrong that Sidney does not understand that with his injury history, his only choice is a 1-year deal to prove *something* to would-be suitors.

You don't have to want Tate and DB gone to understand that, in fact, one or both may be gone and how that makes the hedge more desirable.

We do lose a roster spot if we keep Sidney but your implication that this means we cannot also draft a young receiver to replace Sidney is false and intentionally misleading. That roster spot we lose could be some special teams 3rd-stringer.

Its really not that puzzling, dont try to make my comment more than it was intended to be..my comment about ignoring the magnitude of his injury history has more to do with your general desire to keep him so bad, it was loosely used, just the same way you loosely threw it randomly at me. but you know why i said it, and you cant argue that a guy sitting on the bench hurt is incapable of being more worthy than even a scrub bust of a wr that could at least play special teams so i get why youre going in this direction.

I understand the prove it deal fine. i understand why you feel thats worth it. if you dont want to acknowledge what im saying than so be it, it has less to do with rice adding something and more to do with focusing on player development, we have nothing to lose taking a risk on developing young talent in the same way we have nothing to lose keeping rice another year, its just that one of those scenarios has the chance at a better long term investment and one doesnt, if you dont like that concept then so be it.

there was absolutely in no way shape of form any intentionally misleading going on, im perplexed what that even means.. basic math time, the less busted injury prone vets on the team, the more young talent you can develop. dont know how thats misleading..

IMO the OP has an incomplete understanding of Seattle's wide receivers and their fit.

I think most of us have a strong appreciation for Doug Baldwin and value him as a Seahawk receiver. Baldwin leads by example with his preparation during the week and game day dependability.

You have clearly not read my reasons why i said DB could be gone, so you have an incomplete understanding of the context of this thread.

but screw it, lets just sign everyone we want cause we have to and theres no other possibilities.

do i fit in now?

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

Not Get rid of everyone you got the most explosive wr in the game and kearse who's proven he can play last time I checked. Yeah dude I'm saying you don't prioritize signings so your 3rd and 4th string wrs are great on a run first team. I actually said you keep one or the other as long as you can do it affordable.

I respect our fan base's loyalties, but Rice is absolutely undeserving of ever wearing a seahawk jersey again for the rest of his life. I think its pretty much general consensus he gets cut/restructured. But I have no idea why people would even "want him if he was cheap."

This is one.

I think we should throw a tender on DB, get a draft pick if we can. and happily send him off to a team like the colts where he can be most happy thriving under a heavier passing attack.

This is two

keeping that in mind, why would you not save money and let players walk at our weakest position?? i wouldnt be heart broke to see tate walk, draft a wr or 2 and end up watching both tate and db walk in favor of new cheap talent to develop, that is the only possibly way (penny pinching) we ever maintain a legendary D like we currently have.

This is three and four

You continue to follow up with cut Rice, let Doug walk and Tate walk tender Baldwin for a draft pick, we will safe millions on a drafted WR in the first round over our veterans.

Bring in off the street guys if your picks don't pan out etc.

Fantasy football much? you think Wilson is running for his life now, get rid of his whole WR core and see how good he will look. I would swear you were a troll by the amount of hate being spewed on the WR's that just sealed our Super bowl.

They may not be the forefront of the offense, but get rid of themn and see how much double teaming and beating up Harvin can take with nothing to offset him and make people pay for trying to cover him that way. Lets see how far we get when teams stack the box and just need to cover one receiver. This offense functions because of balance and threast all over, you can love the defense but you still need an offense.

Were on notice as public enemy number one next year, every team is looking at us as a feather in their cap if they beat us, every team in the NFC West wants to shut us up and shut us down, we will have 6 games intra division that are going to be beatdowns.

You need depth to survive that kind of pressure, especially after a long season lest you forget how we came back after 2005, guys didn;t get as long to heal and we were right back in it.

Rices contract and Millers contract will not be what they initially were. Tate and a extension of Doug won't be bank breakers.

If we need anything it's better push and protection for Wilson at the Gaurd position, We need to open up better holes and protect.

We have a lot of IR guys and guys on PS that have been waiting in the wings, last years draft picks, our D line should be sound with those additions and what happens in the draft. Draft more WR's and see if they can displace anyone sure. Cut our guys and roll the dice if you want to repeat not so smart.

ah cmon man, youve been following this thread enough to know better than to take those comments out of context to prove your point better. All those comments were based on different variables, outside of letting rice go cause hes always hurt, cause him getting hurt is hardly a variable.

My ideal situation is keeping tate OR DB for a reasonable contract, if tate gets paid too much...then we draft an extra wr, if we have reason to believe DB wants to leave, then we get something for him while we can and bring in a vet that we can count on to give us depth if our rookies dont work out. How that sounds like fantasy football is beyond me, its called real life scenarios. If you think paying tate or DB as much as it takes to stay is the only way then i think that sounds more like fantasy football than anything Ive said. Building through the draft and counting on rookies to develop is what we literally built our roster on, and is the only way you keep more important pieces together..like idk, your great qb, legendary secondary ect.. but apparently im a fantasy head for not paying whatever it takes to keep our wr core together..

ive talked crap about our wrs before but not once have i said anyone was bad in this thread, to make that troll comment about me discussing opinions and possible scenarios of why people could leave is crap man.

our wr core lives and dies at the heart of percy with our current roster, you can switch in and out the other pieces and the difference is not worth millions, that is my point and my opinion, if you dont agree than thats fine. our offense faced stacked boxes all year and our passing game didnt exactly light the world on fire, just earlier this year everyone blamed our wrs separation but then found a new scapegoat in percy not being there or rw, im not saying what is the correct answer, im just pointing out it was pretty much night and day about our wrs this season, its hardly a new notion im mentioning.

everything you said about cap situations and wr contracts is complete speculation on your part not facts, this thread is about what would happen if everything didnt work that way. if you want to spend months pretending to know how much people will get paid and who will leave then go right on ahead and be on your way.

i never said cut anyone besides rice, thats hardly rolling the dice considering what he added to our team this year. I agree we need oline help, part of my this idea of managing cap is to keep in mind we will need money in other areas that need more help. id much rather over pay a olineman than a wr with the type of offense we run, but this is all just rosterbating for the current moment, i dont think im hurting anyone.

 

[LudwigsDrummer]

We won the Superb owl yesterday.

Yep.
Is it too early to blow the team up?

:sarcasm_off:

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

We just won the superbowl and I love every single player on this team right now for that, even Brandon Browner that idiot. That being said, unfortunately this is the NFL and business goes on.

I wish we could keep both Baldwin and Tate, but I just don't see it, I think they and the team are destined to go their seperate ways. Baldwin wants to be the best, and now has a superbowl victory under his belt. He really has the opposite situation as any older player wanting to sign a cheap deal with seattle to get into the big game. He has already won it, and is at the beginning of his career. I don't say he leaves for money necessarily, but for the chance to put up the type of numbers that he only could being in a Tom Brady led offense or something to that effect.

Don't get me wrong I like Tate, but I would almost rather see him walk than try to retain him for any amount of money. A lot of you have brought up his electric performances against the Rams, and that is a compelling showcase of his skillset. But for me, this almost indicates a lack of effort. It's almost like Tate has to get AGGRAVATED to play at his best. Someone on here said that Harvin is like Tate 2.0 except with a whole bunch of gears, and I completely agree with that, with one addition; also more consistent effort. Kearse has come a long ways and I would be fine seeing him on the outside to replace Tate until we develop a big body WR. Especially since Kearse is probably the best run blocking WR in the NFC.

I would also release Rice. I am sure everyone appreciates what he has done, but it's simply not in the mindset of our FO. Mike Rob I believe was 10X more beloved than Rice was, an excellent leader, and our FO let him go because he got sick, and he is a FB. We are talking about a WR who shredding his ACL. I think he is a solid WR, but I just dont see it happening for any amount of money, unless we are literally talking like a first round pick salary. Which I believe he deserves more than on a team where he can have a fresh start who are willing to accept his risks.

I personally would be EXTREMELY excited to watch Harvin and Lockette on the field at the same time. Imagine the speed! And Lockette isnt a small man either. He seemed to be developing nicely until he dropped a wide open deep ball from RW in an early game and then they kinda just phased him out. But I'm pretty sure he has capitalized on every chance he has had since then, as limited as those have been. Kearse and Lockette on the outside, with harvin in the slot. Draft some developmental talent along the draft, but I wouldn't necessarily say it would have to be Round 1 priority. We also have Bryan Walters and such who have frequented our practice squad.

Overall, I agree that this is probably our least important position on our offense because of our scheme, and when the FO traded for Harvin, and gave him the contract they gave him, they expected him to be "the man" with a lesser supporting cast.

wow thank you baby jesus.

im not sure about not signing tate for any amount of money comment cause if he stays for cheap hes worth it imo, hes just a guy that gets lost in the mix but gets consistently gets better and would benefit learning and playing with guy like percy i think, i dont think baldwin lacks competitiveness but percy goes HARD something that could be contagious to tate who has a similar yac and catch ability. but overall i appreciate your ability to think outside the box. this isnt madden, you dont simply sign someone cause you can. Theres many variables that go into cap management and players leaving, and that was the whole point of this thread, to discuss the what if, or different peoples hunches on different players. Even if someone was to say keep rice and IR him another entire season id be open to listening to ideas like that to improve his health. i think you nailed it about rice being on a team that could take on risks, thats my point, i think we are such a desirable team at this point, theres no need to keep taking the same risk over and over even if theres not much to lose thats besides the point.i really dont think percy kearse lockette rookie/rookie or fa vet sounds that bad to me either, apparently thats a horrible idea and weve been developing kearse to be a permanent 3rd/4th stringer? thanks for the post man, appreciate your opinion.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

We won the Superb owl yesterday.

Yep.
Is it too early to blow the team up?

:sarcasm_off:

.net...where if your training camp 3rd and 4th stringers dont get signed its blowing up the team.

letting go of ten tds a season between 2 players would definitely be the worst decision in franchise history. im sorry for being so stupid everyone.

 

[getnasty]

This is really easy. Cut Rice, resign Tate at 4 to 5 million a year, tender ADB and draft a WR somewhere in the draft. Even if Rice wants to come back on the cheap i say thanks but no thanks. We made it to the Super Bowl with Baldwin, Tate, Kearse and your brother in law, why couldn't we do it again? Plus next year we'll get Percy for more then 1 game.

 

[Mr.Hawkbrah]

This is really easy. Cut Rice, resign Tate at 4 to 5 million a year, tender ADB and draft a WR somewhere in the draft. Even if Rice wants to come back on the cheap i say thanks but no thanks. We made it to the Super Bowl with Baldwin, Tate, Kearse and your brother in law, why couldn't we do it again? Plus next year we'll get Percy for more then 1 game.

Apparently it's not that easy. I've seen like 30 different threads talking about how bad people want Sidney rice lololol. People just don't like change I think.