Tharold Simon is back to playing shutdown coverage

[MizzouHawkGal]

There is absolutely no such thing as a Kam replacement. Even if we were to somehow obtain the next best safety in the league that is still in no way, shape or form replacing Kam.

We'll see I guess given we will have to replace him it seems. I've never seen a player get worse advice but whatever he made his bed so sleep tight Kam.

He'll be replaced just fine but it likely won't be in a direct form that the media or others expect.

 

[DavidSeven]

Certainly, I hope he's improved, but it was one preseason game against backups. It looked to me like SD's 2s weren't afraid to float balls at him, likely due to the rep he earned in last year's playoffs for being susceptible in coverage. I've only seen teams take chances like that against our young guys this preseason.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

Certainly, I hope he's improved, but it was one preseason game against backups. It looked to me like SD's 2s weren't afraid to float balls at him, likely due to the rep he earned in last year's playoffs for being susceptible in coverage. I've only seen teams take chances like that against our young guys this preseason.

This. He looked good but he wasn't covering Keenan Allen either. Would love to see him with the 1s next week.

 

[hawknation2015]

It amazes me how ignorant our fan base is about t simon.

He was pro bowl caliber before he was injured, he was forced to play thru injury and that's where all his bad play started.

It was great to see hin return to form!

Pro Bowl caliber??
Exaggerate much?
He looked like pure poo in XLIX the biggest game of his career, where he got beat like a rented mule, and if he was that hurt he shouldn't be on the field.

I hope he ends up being a pro bowl caliber CB but I wouldn't bet the farm on it, and nothing I've seen screams pro bowl caliber, and one good preseason game won't change that, sorry.

Simon played really well in ten games last year before getting hurt, playing 199 coverage snaps (8th most on the team last season) and not missing a tackle.

Simon finished the regular season #1 among corners in yards allowed/coverage snap and had an overall QB rating allowed of 46.8, which was the 2nd best in the league behind only Vontae Davis (42.5). In addition, Simon finished #2 in the league in coverage snaps/reception (18.4). He also finished #2 in coverage snaps/target (9.7).

Through Week 14, Simon was #1 in QB rating allowed (37.9). At that time, Simon was also #1 in coverage snaps/reception (20.0) while Sherman was #2 (19.2).

Things went downhill very fast after his shoulder separation, as the team thrust him into action due to injuries and he was beaten like a drum in coverage and missed several tackles. Injuries are my biggest concern with Simon, with overaggressiveness being a close second, and my third concern being inexperience.

 

[kearly]

I like Simon, and I was geeked when Seattle drafted him. I totally believe the passer rating against stat or that he's a good tackler. Makes sense.

But at the same time, there's a reason why Simon's good play has flown under the radar- he's frustrating as hell.

Last year, Sherman was penalized 4 times in 890 snaps. Byron Maxwell was penalized 10 times in 669 snaps. Tharold Simon was penalized 13 times in just 298 snaps. He drew a penalty at nearly three times the rate of Maxwell and ten times the rate of Sherman. Simon also sometimes drops interceptions that Maxwell or Sherman would make. The mistakes drive you crazy.

But is the ability there? Absolutely. I'd even be fine with starting him at the #2 outside corner spot. But at some point, he'll need to start cleaning up the mental mistakes to be a good long term starter. Given that Simon is still relatively inexperienced, I still feel pretty upbeat about the guy, I think he can be coached out of those errors, or at least improve dramatically.

I'm much more concerned about Seattle's depth at nickle corner than I am about Williams or Simon.

 

[hawknation2015]

I like Simon, and I was geeked when Seattle drafted him. I totally believe the passer rating against stat or that he's a good tackler. Makes sense.

But at the same time, there's a reason why Simon's good play has flown under the radar- he's frustrating as hell.

Last year, Sherman was penalized 4 times in 890 snaps. Byron Maxwell was penalized 10 times in 669 snaps. Tharold Simon was penalized 13 times in just 298 snaps. He drew a penalty at nearly three times the rate of Maxwell and ten times the rate of Sherman. Simon also sometimes drops interceptions that Maxwell or Sherman would make. The mistakes drive you crazy.

But is the ability there? Absolutely. I'd even be fine with starting him at the #2 outside corner spot. But at some point, he'll need to start cleaning up the mental mistakes to be a good long term starter. Given that Simon is still relatively inexperienced, I still feel pretty upbeat about the guy, I think he can be coached out of those errors, or at least improve dramatically.

I'm much more concerned about Seattle's depth at nickle corner than I am about Williams or Simon.

That was another thing that really stood out yesterday . . . 32 snaps from Simon and not one play that was close to drawing a penalty for overaggressiveness.

 

[DavidSeven]

Tharold Simon was penalized 13 times in just 298 snaps. He drew a penalty at nearly three times the rate of Maxwell and ten times the rate of Sherman.

Great stat. Explains a lot. You have to believe this is why SD was willing to loft balls at him. They figure he's bound to get overaggressive at some point.

 

[hawknation2015]

Tharold Simon was penalized 13 times in just 298 snaps. He drew a penalty at nearly three times the rate of Maxwell and ten times the rate of Sherman.

Great stat. Explains a lot. You have to believe this is why SD was willing to loft balls at him. They figure he's bound to get overaggressive at some point.

Where did you get 13 penalties? Also, where did you get 298 snaps?

I see eight penalties for Simon last season on 305 total snaps and 199 cover snaps.

Maxwell had nine penalties on 717 total snaps and 437 cover snaps.

Sherman was penalized just three times on 989 total snaps and 591 cover snaps.

 

[DavidSeven]

Not my stat, but Pro Football Reference has him at 13 penalties (9 accepted). I think that includes playoffs.

 

[Sports Hernia]

It amazes me how ignorant our fan base is about t simon.

He was pro bowl caliber before he was injured, he was forced to play thru injury and that's where all his bad play started.

It was great to see hin return to form!

Pro Bowl caliber??
Exaggerate much?
He looked like pure poo in XLIX the biggest game of his career, where he got beat like a rented mule, and if he was that hurt he shouldn't be on the field.

I hope he ends up being a pro bowl caliber CB but I wouldn't bet the farm on it, and nothing I've seen screams pro bowl caliber, and one good preseason game won't change that, sorry.

Regular Season passer rating given up by Simon in 10 games played: 44.4
Playoff passer rating given up 147.5

I am sure that shoulder injury he received had nothing to do with any of that. :34853_doh: As far as if he was that hurt that he shouldn't have been on the field, I agree. I put that one on the coaching staff and having Burley who was healthy inactive for the Super Bowl.

Regardless a healthy Simon puts up some amazing numbers, at least for the 2014 regular season.

A shoulder injury had very little to do with him being out of position and getting burned. Most people use their legs and feet to run, not their shoulders. If wrapping up and tackling were his only issue in XLIX you argument/defense would be spot on, sadly that's not the case. I honestly hope that Simon is as good as you think he is, that would make the Hawks a stronger team, but I have yet to see it on a regular basis.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

^

Williams was basically an insurance policy.

I agree but they overpayed for a very average CB.

 

[Seahwkgal]

I'm much more concerned about Seattle's depth at nickle corner than I am about Williams or Simon.

Me too. I was cringing every time I saw the nickel CB play. Ironic that Blackmon is #21 eh?
Horrid. Lane's return will be so needed. Too bad it won't be sooner than later.

 

[Overseasfan]

Williams will do just fine opposite Sherman, don't forget he has the #1 FS in the league to help him out. Although if Simon manages to get back in form he'll most likely beat Williams for the starting job, which is a good thing.

 

[Grahamhawker]

Williams will do just fine opposite Sherman, don't forget he has the #1 FS in the league to help him out. Although if Simon manages to get back in form he'll most likely beat Williams for the starting job, which is a good thing.

Then that begs the question(s):

How would Williams do in slot coverage?

Has he ever played nickel?

 

[Bigbadhawk]

Tharold Simon was penalized 13 times in just 298 snaps. He drew a penalty at nearly three times the rate of Maxwell and ten times the rate of Sherman.

Great stat. Explains a lot. You have to believe this is why SD was willing to loft balls at him. They figure he's bound to get overaggressive at some point.

Where did you get 13 penalties? Also, where did you get 298 snaps?

I see eight penalties for Simon last season on 305 total snaps and 199 cover snaps.

Maxwell had nine penalties on 717 total snaps and 437 cover snaps.

Sherman was penalized just three times on 989 total snaps and 591 cover snaps.

He had 13 but 1 was off setting and another 3 were declined which left 9 being accepted. (This includes 1 penalty in a playoff game)

Defensive Pass Interference: 1
Face Mask (15 Yards): 1
Offensive Holding: 3
Defensive Holding: 3
Neutral Zone Infraction: 1
Illegal Use of Hands: 1
Illegal Contact: 1
Defensive Offsides: 1
Unsportsmanlike Conduct: 1

 

[Hawks46]

I've never doubted Simon's ability and talent. His ceiling is one of the best CB's in the league. That's a high ceiling.

What I doubt is his ability to stay on the field. He's always hurt. He would be more polished if he was able to play his first year with us, but he was out all year with a foot injury.

My optimism for him is that Maxwell was snake bit a lot when he first got here as well. He had a lot of ankle injuries that were always edging him off the roster or keeping him inactive. He also had tight hips and wasn't able to transition quickly, so Maxwell actually had more to overcome than Simon does.

I really hope he plays up to his potential because what I saw of Williams last game scares me. I was hoping for the Ravens version of Cary Williams, not the Eagles version.

 

[hawknation2015]

Tharold Simon was penalized 13 times in just 298 snaps. He drew a penalty at nearly three times the rate of Maxwell and ten times the rate of Sherman.

Great stat. Explains a lot. You have to believe this is why SD was willing to loft balls at him. They figure he's bound to get overaggressive at some point.

Where did you get 13 penalties? Also, where did you get 298 snaps?

I see eight penalties for Simon last season on 305 total snaps and 199 cover snaps.

Maxwell had nine penalties on 717 total snaps and 437 cover snaps.

Sherman was penalized just three times on 989 total snaps and 591 cover snaps.

He had 13 but 1 was off setting and another 3 were declined which left 9 being accepted. (This includes 1 penalty in a playoff game)

Defensive Pass Interference: 1
Face Mask (15 Yards): 1
Offensive Holding: 3
Defensive Holding: 3
Neutral Zone Infraction: 1
Illegal Use of Hands: 1
Illegal Contact: 1
Defensive Offsides: 1
Unsportsmanlike Conduct: 1

Special teams?

Interesting, when you break it down only one PI and three holding on defense.

 

[RussB]

Simon at nickel corner or would be nice. or put williams in the nickel and simon at #2. Williams is good insurance but shead and simon are better even though they are still learning

 

[Bigbadhawk]

Yep Hawknation, bored so looked up the exact plays and here you go.

Brad Nortman punts 47 yards, returned by Richard Sherman for 7 yards (tackle by Tre Boston). Penalty on Tharold Simon: Offensive Holding, 10 yards
Donnie Jones punts 46 yards, returned by Doug Baldwin for no gain. Penalty on Tharold Simon: Offensive Holding, 10 yards
Andy Lee punts 48 yards, fair catch by Doug Baldwin. Penalty on Tharold Simon: Offensive Holding, 10 yards

Dug a little more, another special teams penalty.
Graham Gano 35 yard field goal good. Penalty on Tharold Simon: Defensive Offside (Declined)

So 4 of his 13 came on special teams, 9 while on the defensive side of the ball.

 

[Hawk-A-Loogie]

Simon > Cary Williams.

Thought frustrating at times with Simon, i'm sure he can fix being penalized so much.