Tharold Simon is back to playing shutdown coverage

[peppersjap]

It amazes me how ignorant our fan base is about t simon.

He was pro bowl caliber before he was injured, he was forced to play thru injury and that's where all his bad play started.

It was great to see hin return to form!

I like how Simon is looking but "pro bowl caliber" before he was injured? Where did you see that and when was he not injured? I think that is very disrespectful to CB's who have actually put in there time and become top flight CB's. He was only on the field in the Super Bowl because of an injury to Lane, he was a bench warmer. I have high hopes for the guy but he is no where near a pro bowl player right now unless it is a year when all the top CB's bow out.

 

[peppersjap]

I love how the same people who called Simon crap last year are suddenly in love with him while now hating Cary Williams for getting beat twice by a Pro Bowl WR.

This board is the best.

Agreed!

 

[peppersjap]

It amazes me how ignorant our fan base is about t simon.

He was pro bowl caliber before he was injured, he was forced to play thru injury and that's where all his bad play started.

It was great to see hin return to form!

Pro Bowl caliber??
Exaggerate much?
He looked like pure poo in XLIX the biggest game of his career, where he got beat like a rented mule, and if he was that hurt he shouldn't be on the field.

I hope he ends up being a pro bowl caliber CB but I wouldn't bet the farm on it, and nothing I've seen screams pro bowl caliber, and one good preseason game won't change that, sorry.

Regular Season passer rating given up by Simon in 10 games played: 44.4
Playoff passer rating given up 147.5

I am sure that shoulder injury he received had nothing to do with any of that. :34853_doh: As far as if he was that hurt that he shouldn't have been on the field, I agree. I put that one on the coaching staff and having Burley who was healthy inactive for the Super Bowl.

Regardless a healthy Simon puts up some amazing numbers, at least for the 2014 regular season.

How often was he on the field? Show me that stat after a year of starting.

 

[hawknation2015]

It amazes me how ignorant our fan base is about t simon.

He was pro bowl caliber before he was injured, he was forced to play thru injury and that's where all his bad play started.

It was great to see hin return to form!

Pro Bowl caliber??
Exaggerate much?
He looked like pure poo in XLIX the biggest game of his career, where he got beat like a rented mule, and if he was that hurt he shouldn't be on the field.

I hope he ends up being a pro bowl caliber CB but I wouldn't bet the farm on it, and nothing I've seen screams pro bowl caliber, and one good preseason game won't change that, sorry.

Regular Season passer rating given up by Simon in 10 games played: 44.4
Playoff passer rating given up 147.5

I am sure that shoulder injury he received had nothing to do with any of that. :34853_doh: As far as if he was that hurt that he shouldn't have been on the field, I agree. I put that one on the coaching staff and having Burley who was healthy inactive for the Super Bowl.

Regardless a healthy Simon puts up some amazing numbers, at least for the 2014 regular season.

How often was he on the field? Show me that stat after a year of starting.

I provided that info above. Simon played 199 coverage snaps during the regular season, which was the 8th most on the team.

Simon finished the regular season #1 among corners in yards allowed/coverage snap and had an overall QB rating allowed of 46.8, which was the 2nd best in the league. In addition, Simon finished #2 in the league in coverage snaps/reception (18.4) and coverage snaps/target (9.7).

 

[HawKnPeppa]

This was always my original concern with signing Cary Williams to that contract. Simon, when healthy, was the more consistent player. What you see right away is, in true Seahawks CB form, he really gets his hands on WRs so he can feel where they're trying to go. He couldn't do that with the shoulder injury and it showed. Cary Williams, on the other hand, just isn't getting up there and pressing for an unknown reason. He's playing soft in coverage even though he's lining up pretty tight. Really doesn't make a lot of sense.

However, we knew that Simon and Lane are very good players. The problem is that we also knew their health was in serious question and we had nothing behind them that we could go into a season with. If Simon were to have any sort of setback we'd be counting on some youngster that is a relative unknown since we already knew Lane wasn't going to be ready.

Hence the Cary Williams signing. I think the contract sucked and I don't think we net gain anything by cutting him this year, but it is what it is.

The coaches are going to harp on being patient to him, with many teachable points from the SD game. Saw him immediately give the WR gobs of space them jump around as the WR moved, rather than the Jam, sidestep, wait, kick/chase that our CB's are taught. "Wait" seems to be the hardest part to get used to. If he continues to not 'get it,' he could be gone soon.

 

[jammerhawk]

I like Simon, and I was geeked when Seattle drafted him. I totally believe the passer rating against stat or that he's a good tackler. Makes sense.

But at the same time, there's a reason why Simon's good play has flown under the radar- he's frustrating as hell.

Last year, Sherman was penalized 4 times in 890 snaps. Byron Maxwell was penalized 10 times in 669 snaps. Tharold Simon was penalized 13 times in just 298 snaps. He drew a penalty at nearly three times the rate of Maxwell and ten times the rate of Sherman. Simon also sometimes drops interceptions that Maxwell or Sherman would make. The mistakes drive you crazy.

But is the ability there? Absolutely. I'd even be fine with starting him at the #2 outside corner spot. But at some point, he'll need to start cleaning up the mental mistakes to be a good long term starter. Given that Simon is still relatively inexperienced, I still feel pretty upbeat about the guy, I think he can be coached out of those errors, or at least improve dramatically.

I'm much more concerned about Seattle's depth at nickle corner than I am about Williams or Simon.

Great Post!

I knew Simon's penalty numbers were bad but didn't appreciate how bad. The only thing I will observe about him is he is still compatively raw having lost a lot of time to various injuries. He clearly does have ability and will improve as he gains more experience.

The nickel CB position is still totally up for grabs and there Is not yet a clear candidate for the job. Losing Lane in the SB was a significant blow to the team's pass D. So far no single player has stepped up to clearly grab this open job. I'm hopeful we see a breakthrough by one of the younger players against Oakland as I doubt Blackmon is the guy, but hope the news on Lane's recovery improves.

 

[Attyla the Hawk]

Last year, Sherman was penalized 4 times in 890 snaps. Byron Maxwell was penalized 10 times in 669 snaps. Tharold Simon was penalized 13 times in just 298 snaps. He drew a penalty at nearly three times the rate of Maxwell and ten times the rate of Sherman. Simon also sometimes drops interceptions that Maxwell or Sherman would make. The mistakes drive you crazy.

I saw the same issues when Browner was getting flagged like crazy. Even at that time, I mentioned that there are three things at work here. One, getting to a point where you can trust you size and not get grabby. Second, there is definitely an element at work where veterans get away with the same things that young players do not. And I think that's attributable to the third element where really only experience allows you to really hone your craft into what you can get away with and what you can't. If you're always crossing the line, then refs are looking harder at you and more inclined to throw flags.

When you get savvy enough to be in the gray area consistently -- refs give you that benefit of the doubt. It took a whole season for Browner to get to that point, even after having been in the league and playing in the CFL.

As for the OP, I liked Simon last year. Felt he was on the verge of being the next Maxwell. It was too bad his biggest career moments were in the SB, where he played injured -- suffered a second injury in the game, and was forced to stay in due to Lane's injury in a matchup that is easily his most difficult physically.

I'm a fan of Simon's. I think he'll get there. My only real concern with him is his durability. Given that, I though the Cary Williams signing was warranted (although seems we really grossly overpaid for him). Although one could say overpaying him was ok, since he was a street free agent who didn't cost us a 5th round comp pick awarded by losing Carpenter.

 

[titan3131]

can someone post some typical sherman stats and compare them to simon pre injury?

Theres alot of internet tough guys that cant accept how much an injury changes how you play. Our cb system and technique requires shoulder str and speed.

Since some people cant understand this im assuming that you have never exercised and have no comprehension of a shoulder injury and its effect on str and movement.

T simon was a stud, the stats prove it. The issue is the fans who cant accept that because they are so hurt from his trash performance in the playoffs.

Do you all hate Kam and earl for not making a difference in the SB? Or how about Lane what a bum he got hurt...

 

[HuskerHawk]

To be fair, the qb's Humble Thug was going up against down the stretch were pretty bad for the most part (Krapper x2, Stanton/Lindlay x2, Sanchez). Along with the shoulder injury that's gotta account for part of the difference in QBR for the regular season vs. the playoffs.

 

[McGruff]

This board is fickle.

 

[titan3131]

Unfortunatly williams isnt going anywhere this year, but we can leave him on the bench till he gets our technique down. As long as T.simon stays confident and healthy he will be great.

 

[Hasselbeck]

Unfortunatly williams isnt going anywhere this year, but we can leave him on the bench till he gets our technique down. As long as T.simon stays confident and healthy he will be great.

Keenan Allen beat him - twice

In the GIF's HN15 put up, Simon was defending JACOBY JONES and AUSTIN PETTIS. Playing against ..... Kellen Clemens and ........... Brad Sorensen at QB.

Look.. I have been in Simon's corner since before he was even drafted. He has a lot of potential, and I would love it if he elevates his game to Maxwell's level. But it's hilarious to me that suddenly he is vaulting starting DB's based on him defending the Chargers roster fodder.

Oh and by the way.. maybe Keenan Allen is actually a really good WR and sometimes really good WR's just simply beat their man.. no matter who it is. Or maybe, since Keenan Allen is now the litmus test for what constitutes a good corner, we should also cut the guy that gets beat by Keenan Allen on this clip?

[vine]OaIzdWiEF9P[/vine]

 

[xgeoff]

I also thought he looked great. So glad I wasn't the only one. I've been really worried about the corner opposite Sherman. I still am, but having Simon look good gives us a viable option there, which is nice.

 

[titan3131]

Unfortunatly williams isnt going anywhere this year, but we can leave him on the bench till he gets our technique down. As long as T.simon stays confident and healthy he will be great.

Keenan Allen beat him - twice

In the GIF's HN15 put up, Simon was defending JACOBY JONES and AUSTIN PETTIS. Playing against ..... Kellen Clemens and ........... Brad Sorensen at QB.

Look.. I have been in Simon's corner since before he was even drafted. He has a lot of potential, and I would love it if he elevates his game to Maxwell's level. But it's hilarious to me that suddenly he is vaulting starting DB's based on him defending the Chargers roster fodder.

Oh and by the way.. maybe Keenan Allen is actually a really good WR and sometimes really good WR's just simply beat their man.. no matter who it is. Or maybe, since Keenan Allen is now the litmus test for what constitutes a good corner, we should also cut the guy that gets beat by Keenan Allen on this clip?

[vine]OaIzdWiEF9P[/vine]

Im not in favor of cutting him this year it wouldnt make sense. But if he can sit till he gets our technique down that would be ideal. Simon has the potential, im sure people vaguely remember sherman tooting simons horn last year. He can be what we want and what we need.