Things the front office has done very badly

[Maelstrom787]

Thanks for this post. I also want a new defensive coordinator. Do you think it might finally happen?

I think it has to happen. I cannot back a decision to keep Hurtt at this juncture. I wanted him canned last year. My money is on Pete wiping the coordinators out this offseason.

I'm going to throw a name out that I'm not sure we'll be able to lure away. He's one of the only candidates I'd want who hasn't been a coordinator (well, outside of Division III in his younger coaching days). Chris Shula of the Rams. If Raheem Morris stays in LA because he strikes out on a head coaching job, Chris could make a jump up with us. I'm extremely attracted to the prospect of bringing a legacy guy, raised in the game by a legendary football family, into the fold. This isn't nepotism either, he's done a fantastic job in his current role as pass game coordinator/LB coach. Has also coached DBs in LA.

He's McVay's close friend, so it might be hard to lure him. But I've got my eye on him.

If Saleh gets fired in favor of a Rodgers-approved head coach, bring him back to where he cut his teeth - right here. It'd be a wonderful rehab stint for him in a familiar place, and he'd have another HC shot in the future.

 

[Ozzy]

I’m with everyone on getting new coordinators but they’re still going to run a very similar defense to what we’re running now trying to force teams to stay in front of them and attacking the soft zone. It’s been this way for YEARS under Pete. If you want structural changes on the defense you should be asking for a new coach.

 

[Maelstrom787]

I’m with everyone on getting new coordinators but they’re still going to run a very similar defense to what we’re running now trying to force teams to stay in front of them and attacking the soft zone. It’s been this way for YEARS under Pete. If you want structural changes on the defense you should be asking for a new coach.

Most teams run similar kinds of zone, though. It's a common complaint, similar to the one about edge rushers in coverage.

As for structural changes, we did just see a whole ton of them in 2022. Didn't work very well, but there's a definite willingness to change and adapt. Even if they don't change a ton, perhaps we can get a dude who is better at coaching fundamental aspects of defending. Just getting less sloppy on D would be positive, and that's more on implementation than scheme or in-game playcalling.

 

[Ozzy]

Most teams run similar kinds of zone, though. It's a common complaint, similar to the one about edge rushers in coverage.

As for structural changes, we did just see a whole ton of them in 2022. Didn't work very well, but there's a definite willingness to change and adapt. Even if they don't change a ton, perhaps we can get a dude who is better at coaching fundamental aspects of defending. Just getting less sloppy on D would be positive, and that's more on implementation than scheme or in-game playcalling.

I don’t want to get to into the weeds since it s late but the idea Seattle did massive changes is largely overstated. Most teams are not running the same look Seattle is outside of broadstroking it but going out and signing an aging LB because he’s loved here when you know your defense is predicated on that guy being able to cover is another reason the head coach and GM should be criticized. Rams were smart with Bobby and he looked much better

 

[Ozzy]

I’m not saying you’re all wrong and you make some valid points I’d just argue seattles philosophy has largely been the same for a long time predating Clint Hurt taking over. Bieneny was right

 

[Maelstrom787]

I don’t want to get to into the weeds since it s late but the idea Seattle did massive changes is largely overstated. Most teams are not running the same look Seattle is outside of broadstroking it but going out and signing an aging LB because he’s loved here when you know your defense is predicated on that guy being able to cover is another reason the head coach and GM should be criticized. Rams were smart with Bobby and he looked much better

We did bone Bobby a few times when facing the Rams last year.

Bringing him back was bad bad. He's been dead washed for 3 years. He'll still rack up PFF grades and tackles because he's got that kind of understanding of the game. He'll not be blowing assignments. But he can't... move. Not laterally, anyway.

Linebacker will be beyond crucial to solve, and... it's getting really hard to find ones who aren't 225 lbs. with the way the college game is going.

 

[GemCity]

I think it's partly fan perception, honestly. A lot of people I trust were singing Pocic's praises during his last years here, but everyone thought replacing him was the biggest need on the team. Obviously, turns out he is quite good. Britt was also decent. Hell, Britt was a Pro Bowl alt year 1 at center (2016). We never remember that dude, but he held it down.

I think we attribute line failures to the center more than we should due to the sting of losing Unger in a bad trade. But that mess really only persisted until Britt settled at center. Unger->Massive Failures->Britt reclamation->Pocic finally playing his natural spot->Bad Stopgap Blythe->Better Stopgap Brown.

Lot of coaching woes leading to less than optimal paths, but not that much utter failure in the actual play department.

And, yes. Creed obviously would've been nice, but the rest of the league passed on him a bunch too, and WR3 was a big need. Can't have Freddie Swain as your WR3 in an 11 personnel league. Pocic was a better center than Swain was a WR3. Would've been nice had Dee not ended up sucking ass, which disappoints me because he seemed like a promising option as a versatile Parris Campbell type. He was money on slants especially at WKU.

And yes, I was also saying "oh, hey, take Creed" when they were on the clock. I just get their perspective of going for WR3 from a team building perspective, even if it didn't work out. Lot of other good teams passed on Creed as well, he almost got to the third. In a league where the best centers go 17-32 overall usually, and given Creed's outstanding athletic testing, I have to wonder if there's something we just didn't know. Might've been bombing interviews.

Creed was the 3rd C selected. The 2nd C (Josh Myers) selected was off the board with pick 62…Creed at 63.

Eskridge was the 8th WR selected.

I was actually nervous as hell as I thought we’d get Myers. He’s from my hometown and I followed him from middle school on up. My oldest son played HS ball with him.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, at no point before and certainly not after have I ever liked the Eskridge pick.

I didn’t feel as bad about him as I did with LJ (another WTF…I wanted Sweat).

Eskridge was a bad pick. Swain or not..

 

[Maelstrom787]

Creed was the 3rd C selected. The 2nd C (Josh Myers) selected was off the board with pick 62…Creed at 63.

Eskridge was the 8th WR selected.

I was actually nervous as hell as I thought we’d get Myers. He’s from my hometown and I followed him from middle school on up. My oldest son played HS ball with him.

Hindsight is 20/20 but, at no point before and certainly not after have I ever liked the Eskridge pick.

I didn’t feel as bad about him as I did with LJ (another WTF…I wanted Sweat).

Eskridge was a bad pick. Swain or not..

It did end up being a bad pick, yes. I just can't fault the thought process in this league. If we're looking at the needs at the time, I think WR was a vital need then. I was happy to roll with Pocic.

All in all, the difference between Pocic and the best centers at the time was 1 or less pressures per game in pass protection, and he was not bad in the run game.

I can't compare WR to C in terms of amount of 'em off the board, myself. So many less centers are added yearly than WRs. You're starting 3 WRs vs. 1 C generally.

Collier, yeah. I had him on my list of 3 players not to draft that year which I posted on Twitter, along with Parris Campbell and Rashan Gary. Gary ended up working out well enough, though.

 

[seahawks08]

Scheme and coaching up are two critical pieces to utilizing the maximum potential of every player. We can draft high or low, but DK would have been much effective if he learned under McVay, Shanahan or other great schemers. In defense we don’t have the skilled coaches who can take our talent and maximize their potential. Pete’s defense is conceptually built around 4 man rush, but majority of times we leave the middle of the field 20 plus yards open. We will need 3 more players crucial to making this team better and a really great coach who can coach up players

 

[pittpnthrs]

I don’t want to get to into the weeds since it s late but the idea Seattle did massive changes is largely overstated. Most teams are not running the same look Seattle is outside of broadstroking it but going out and signing an aging LB because he’s loved here when you know your defense is predicated on that guy being able to cover is another reason the head coach and GM should be criticized. Rams were smart with Bobby and he looked much better

Yeah, we all knew Wagz was going to be a liability in coverage, but whats the alternative. Brooks looked lost out there the year before. They were kind of stuck and Bobby was the best alternative. Regardless, it's an area that needs attention immediately.

 

[pittpnthrs]

It did end up being a bad pick, yes. I just can't fault the thought process in this league. If we're looking at the needs at the time, I think WR was a vital need then. I was happy to roll with Pocic.

All in all, the difference between Pocic and the best centers at the time was 1 or less pressures per game in pass protection, and he was not bad in the run game.

I can't compare WR to C in terms of amount of 'em off the board, myself. So many less centers are added yearly than WRs. You're starting 3 WRs vs. 1 C generally.

Collier, yeah. I had him on my list of 3 players not to draft that year which I posted on Twitter, along with Parris Campbell and Rashan Gary. Gary ended up working out well enough, though.

We never did agree on the WR/C aspect and argued about it plenty. Lol. Pocic seems to play well for Cleveland somehow, but I thought he was horrible here. Maybe my eyes deceived me, maybe not. Who knows.

 

[seabowl]

Trades!!!! For all that JS does that is good, the one thing he has been bad at is the compensation in what he gives up in trades for big name players

Two first round picks for Jamal Adams .
I get that you want the player but Adam’s all but sealed the deal in that he’d never play again for the Jets and have been badmouthing them in the press. The Jets had to get rid of him and I’m sure the Seahawks offered more by far than anybody else for him.

A second and fifth round pick for Leonard Williams.
Similar to the Adams deal, the Giants wanted to get rid of Williams as they were going nowhere and he was going to be a free agent. He was likely not going to resign with them, so anything they got for him would have been a plus. Again, not hating the player, but, what the Seahawks gave up for him was definitely too much especially that he is an impending free agent and he’ll be 30.

It seems that when schneider wants someone he’ll pay almost anything for that player. This is why I feel he gets pretty rooked in these deals.

 

[Ozzy]

I think it has to happen. I cannot back a decision to keep Hurtt at this juncture. I wanted him canned last year. My money is on Pete wiping the coordinators out this offseason.

I'm going to throw a name out that I'm not sure we'll be able to lure away. He's one of the only candidates I'd want who hasn't been a coordinator (well, outside of Division III in his younger coaching days). Chris Shula of the Rams. If Raheem Morris stays in LA because he strikes out on a head coaching job, Chris could make a jump up with us. I'm extremely attracted to the prospect of bringing a legacy guy, raised in the game by a legendary football family, into the fold. This isn't nepotism either, he's done a fantastic job in his current role as pass game coordinator/LB coach. Has also coached DBs in LA.

He's McVay's close friend, so it might be hard to lure him. But I've got my eye on him.

If Saleh gets fired in favor of a Rodgers-approved head coach, bring him back to where he cut his teeth - right here. It'd be a wonderful rehab stint for him in a familiar place, and he'd have another HC shot in the future.

Not a fan of Saleh as a head coach but would love him as a DC.

 

[xray]

Pete Carroll giving himself a 5 year contract extension . That beats all . imho

 

[Ozzy]

We never did agree on the WR/C aspect and argued about it plenty. Lol. Pocic seems to play well for Cleveland somehow, but I thought he was horrible here. Maybe my eyes deceived me, maybe not. Who knows.

Pocic was terrible, they talked about how bad the line was and it was terrible too, and then with one of the highest rated offensive lineman on the board they went with Eskridge. The process was bad and I think Pete and John would both admit they got too cute there. Can’t agree that the process for eskridge who also was always more of a gadget guy than a great WR prospect(he went higher than most anticipated) was ever a good idea.

That’s part of the problems with Pete. He claims a certain brand of football but then doesn’t seem to ever think an offensive line is important to run that offense when it’s vital. We were lucky with Russ in a lot of regards because he masked a lot of problems with our roster construction at the time.

 

[Cyrus12]

I guess one could ask if Pete keeps hiring bad coordinators when will he be held responsible for it? He has not had a good DC since Quinn left and as for OC I think there was some catering to the qb that was here but still none have really worked out..So how many more coordinators do we go through before finally assigning blame to Pete? I know many are there and others blame the coordinators. He is the head coach after all. Imo everything rests on his shoulders. Will new coordinators change anything and do you trust Pete to hire the right staff??

 

[Cyrus12]

Trades!!!! For all that JS does that is good, the one thing he has been bad at is the compensation in what he gives up in trades for big name players

Two first round picks for Jamal Adams .
I get that you want the player but Adam’s all but sealed the deal in that he’d never play again for the Jets and have been badmouthing them in the press. The Jets had to get rid of him and I’m sure the Seahawks offered more by far than anybody else for him.

A second and fifth round pick for Leonard Williams.
Similar to the Adams deal, the Giants wanted to get rid of Williams as they were going nowhere and he was going to be a free agent. He was likely not going to resign with them, so anything they got for him would have been a plus. Again, not hating the player, but, what the Seahawks gave up for him was definitely too much especially that he is an impending free agent and he’ll be 30.

It seems that when schneider wants someone he’ll pay almost anything for that player. This is why I feel he gets pretty rooked in these deals.

Can't argue against this. The Adams deal was so reminiscent of the Percy and Graham trades but actually worse. Factor in some real bad drafting as well.

A 2nd and a 5th for Williams seemed way to high to me. I thought maybe a 3 and 5 or maybe just a 4?? He hasn't had a ton of impact here and by draft time we will be missing that 2nd rd pick imo. I know it was a desperate move since Nwosu went down and we were still looking good in the standings but it hasn't aged well at all.

 

[Ozzy]

I guess one could ask if Pete keeps hiring bad coordinators when will he be held responsible for it? He has not had a good DC since Quinn left and as for OC I think there was some catering to the qb that was here but still none have really worked out..So how many more coordinators do we go through before finally assigning blame to Pete? I know many are there and others blame the coordinators. He is the head coach after all. Imo everything rests on his shoulders. Will new coordinators change anything and do you trust Pete to hire the right staff??

And he’s actually the CEO of operations so he’s technically Schnieders boss too.

 

[renofox]

And he’s actually the CEO of operations so he’s technically Schnieders boss too.

But is he?

When PCJS were hired, PC had the title Executive Vice President/Head Coach and JS was General Manager. At some point, JS was given the title Executive Vice President/General Manager (which he now holds) and PC was changed to Vice President of Football Operations/Head Coach.

Where is PC?

He may still have the VP Football Operations title but it's strange that he's not listed as such, or in any role as senior management or administration.

What's even stranger is that no media have picked up on this and asked the question.

Then again, they never reported when he was "demoted" from Executive VP to VP Football Ops.

p.s. For.those unfamiliar, Executive VP outranks non-Executive VP. At least in every one of hundreds of situations with which I am familiar.

edit; p.p.s. Matt Capurro is VP of Coaching Operations, Matt Thomas is VP of Football Administration, and Zach Hensley is VP of Operations. There is no VP of Football Operations listed, but there is one other interesting thing: Joey Schneider (son?) Is listed as Salary Cap Analyst/Assistant to the General Manager, Football Operations, so JS is AGM, FO?

 

[ivotuk]

I want to make it clear that I'm not a blind sycophant for the current front office by acknowledging the following criticisms of the staff over the years:

• They catered to Russ for too long near the end, and they should've just forced him to run what he was good at instead of acquiescing to Let Russ Cook to appease him. He threatened not to re-sign. Should've just let him and traded him anyway afterwards rather than catering to that.
• The Jamal Adams trade was... not good. I don't necessarily agree that it was terrible in terms of philosophy - they wanted another run with Russ and Jamal Adams was universally regarded as a fantastic talent at safety. Extremely versatile, and fairly healthy at the time. But you can never give up that much capital for... really anyone, outside of incredible defensive linemen (like, Myles Garrett type stuff) or quarterback. Maybe a top-5 receiver like Hill, Jefferson, or Chase.
• The draft criteria got outside of the realm of reason for a while. It led to a continual gulf of talent that they relied on the existing roster and coaching to compensate for, which took the ceiling of the team and crushed it for a while in the late 2010s.
• Hurtt should've been fired in 2022. I don't mind taking a chance on homegrown coaches who happen to be excellent positional coaches, but 2022 was beyond the pale. 2023 is middling, but not good enough to inspire confidence going forward.
• Cable should've been fired... earlier. Jesus.
• I'd like to see a much heavier emphasis on experience when going for coordinators. We need some competent, steady hands.

Those are my current thoughts. I understand there are more criticisms, but I make this post to highlight something important - nuance. There are bad things, and there are good things, and I want to acknowledge them in a balanced way.

Agree on all points, but I don't want to eliminate OC prospects that are young, and "might" be really good. However, finding another Mike McDaniels is going to be next to impossible.

EVERY single time they've traded away 1st round picks for a player, they've gotten burned. There is NOTHING in our history that would make that seem like a good idea. Jimmy Graham...omg

Every time we've traded away talent for 1st round picks, we've made out like a Bandit. (Joey Galloway, Rick Mirer, Russell Wilson)

Cable should have been jailed for robbing Seahawks fans of years full of joy.

Pete MUST NOT allow new coaches to influence draft picks. I suspect Waldron was a Dee Eskeridge fan. And we all saw what Cable did.

I think it has to happen. I cannot back a decision to keep Hurtt at this juncture. I wanted him canned last year. My money is on Pete wiping the coordinators out this offseason.

I'm going to throw a name out that I'm not sure we'll be able to lure away. He's one of the only candidates I'd want who hasn't been a coordinator (well, outside of Division III in his younger coaching days). Chris Shula of the Rams. If Raheem Morris stays in LA because he strikes out on a head coaching job, Chris could make a jump up with us. I'm extremely attracted to the prospect of bringing a legacy guy, raised in the game by a legendary football family, into the fold. This isn't nepotism either, he's done a fantastic job in his current role as pass game coordinator/LB coach. Has also coached DBs in LA.

He's McVay's close friend, so it might be hard to lure him. But I've got my eye on him.

If Saleh gets fired in favor of a Rodgers-approved head coach, bring him back to where he cut his teeth - right here. It'd be a wonderful rehab stint for him in a familiar place, and he'd have another HC shot in the future.