Wagner and Wilson not going to get done this year?

[HawKnPeppa]

They had 14.1 M in cap space going into today. You need about half of that to cover draft picks, IR, and the PS.

Not to mention that any new deals for Wilson and Wagner will likely have non-substantial 2015 cap increases.

This. ^^^ Mitch is clueless.

 

[JesterHawk]

We're drafting Mariota. I know a guy.

 

[olyfan63]

We're drafting Mariota. I know a guy.

Marcus Mariota does look just like Russell Wilson on some of those read option plays.
Cut Wilson, draft Mariota, Superb Owl, baby!!!
Wait, we've been there the last two years with Wilson. Never mind. Let Chip have Mariota.

I think that Russell Wilson is probably in conversations with the FO to help them put the most competitive team possible around him. Not signing yet may well have been Wilson's idea. I wouldn't even be surprised to see him play out his rookie contract well into the 2015 season before the extension happens.

Russell probably makes as much or more for endorsements as his salary, when he's a SB-winning QB. That pick cost him millions. And left us all nauseated at all the Brady knob slobbering from the media.

Sure, Russell will want and command a good contract. But Russell is all about winning, and he would probably be the one to propose creative ideas to the FO to help them put the best possible talent around him that makes winning possible. He's hungry and determined for another Lombardi, and not just all about Russell.

I heard Chicago offered to trade us Jay Cutler for Wilson, straight across. Kidding!! Made you laugh, though...

 

[SomersetHawk]

Going off the overthecap projections of Rookie salaries in 2015 I worked out that we only need an extra $260k to sign rookies.

51 count against the cap, our 51st highest paid player as of now is earning $510k I believe, meaning only the difference will be made up. Supposedly the only picks who will earn more than $510k in 2015 are our 2nd, 3rd and three 4ths. 5th rounders and beyond are slotted to earn less than that and so shouldn't count. Of course, we might well move up in the draft, but the difference isn't going to be all that great e.g. moving up to say the 43rd pick (our favourite trading partners, the Vikes) should only cost around an extra $250k in 2015.

I don't know where these figures of millions come from, they don't compute?

http://overthecap.com/draft/

 

[original poster]

Going off the overthecap projections of Rookie salaries in 2015 I worked out that we only need an extra $260k to sign rookies.

51 count against the cap, our 51st highest paid player as of now is earning $510k I believe, meaning only the difference will be made up. Supposedly the only picks who will earn more than $510k in 2015 are our 2nd, 3rd and three 4ths. 5th rounders and beyond are slotted to earn less than that and so shouldn't count. Of course, we might well move up in the draft, but the difference isn't going to be all that great e.g. moving up to say the 43rd pick (our favourite trading partners, the Vikes) should only cost around an extra $250k in 2015.

I don't know where these figures of millions come from, they don't compute?

http://overthecap.com/draft/

I'm sure I read JS mention a figure of around $4 million for this years draft guys?

 

[SomersetHawk]

Going off the overthecap projections of Rookie salaries in 2015 I worked out that we only need an extra $260k to sign rookies.

51 count against the cap, our 51st highest paid player as of now is earning $510k I believe, meaning only the difference will be made up. Supposedly the only picks who will earn more than $510k in 2015 are our 2nd, 3rd and three 4ths. 5th rounders and beyond are slotted to earn less than that and so shouldn't count. Of course, we might well move up in the draft, but the difference isn't going to be all that great e.g. moving up to say the 43rd pick (our favourite trading partners, the Vikes) should only cost around an extra $250k in 2015.

I don't know where these figures of millions come from, they don't compute?

http://overthecap.com/draft/

I'm sure I read JS mention a figure of around $4 million for this years draft guys?

Our total rookie pool without considering comp picks and UDFAs is around $4m, but that's not going to be cap hit, though there'll probably be some dead cap left over from 11 picks (assuming they wont keep them all).

To add, according to spotrac we have about $15m available. Whilst we're currently operating at around $133.2m and the 2015 cap is $143.28m, we carried over $4.8m in space from last year. We're actually in a much healthier position than I thought. It'll be interesting to see what Rubin got, and Wisniewski would eat into it too should he sign, but both could be partly offset by cutting McDaniel (I think it's a reasonable possibility) and restructuring Mebane.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/seattle-seahawks/cap/

 

[kearly]

Pretty good stuff. I don't know how we got this idea where we could re-sign Russell and take a cap hit less than 10 million. I don't see it.

I'll ask the question again, does not signing Wilson this season damage his relationship with the team at all?

Sign Wilson to an Aaron Rodgers type deal. 5/110. Give him a $35 million signing bonus (the same Rodgers got). That works out to a $7 million a year signing bonus cap hit. Pay Wilson $1 million in base salary for next season and his 2015 cap hit would be only $8 million. It may only be a $8 million cap hit, but Wilson would end up earning $36 million in 2015.

It's not something he'd complain about. Especially knowing that for the life of his deal, he'd average $22 million AYP and be one of the highest paid QBs in the NFL.

 

[kearly]

I expect them both to be signed this spring after the draft but I wanted to clarify our current cap numbers due to some confusing from the numbers you provided.

Yeah I'm just going ballpark. I do know that Seattle started at $119 million with one cap / rollover estimate as high as $148 million (source: the NFLPA website). Another less charitable one was around $143 million, which probably explains spotracs number.

Seattle usually reserves $4 million for draft picks and about $2 million of that is for the 1st round pick the Hawks traded away. Low round picks cost very little because they are essentially replacing guys off the 90 man roster who often make more money than they do. As said by Somerset, it's a 'pool' of money set aside, it's not a fixed expenditure.

It's not about the guys Seattle signs right now, it's about the guys who earn game checks week to week during the season. So the DT Seattle signed from Cleveland, he's unlikely to earn almost anything from our cap because he probably won't make the team.

This year, I think you could probably pencil in $2 million for draft picks for the simple reason that Seattle doesn't have to pay $2 million to that 1st round pick anymore out of a $4 million draft pool. There's also a small amount of money the FO sets aside for IR/settlements. I've heard differing estimates on Seattle's total cap number this year, but even the more conservative one still allows Seattle plenty of money to get deals done for Wilson and Wagner so long as Seattle is okay with handing out large signing bonuses to smooth out the immediate cap hit.

 

[UK_Seahawk]

I'm not to worried if they don't re up Wilson this season. RW was the guy paying for the likes of Darren Fells to go to Hermosa Beach in April when on 700k a year.

Might be wrong but I'm not convinced money is his primary goal.

That said I wouldnt want the Seahawks FO to take advantage of that situation by not doing right by Wilson. I'm sure they will look after him though.

 

[lobohawk]

I find it interesting that when the talking heads bring up the fact that his agent is a baseball agent, they miss Wilson's history with him. They imply the agent may push for a baseball type structure or try to make a name for himself with a big contract.

What they don't note is that Wilson has been with this guy before his last college year and has really catered to Wilson's desires and not his own. Also, the agent's son is Wilson's friend and part of his crew he brought to Seattle. I doubt the agent will be pushing the contact for his own benefit.

 

[hawksfansinceday1]

We're drafting Mariota. I know a guy.

JSeahawks just got wood. Post saying he's better than Russ coming in 5-4-3................
.
.
.
.
.
J/K man.



The team will get both contracts done this offseason IMO. Relax guys.

 

[Scottemojo]

Yeah they can't afford much of a signing bonus at all, which is of course the problem. I guess they could throw huge guarantees throughout the contract instead of signing bonus, but I'm guessing Russ is gonna want a big chunk up front.

Also, Graham's number against the cap is supposedly 8+ this year, and 2M for Unger in dead money. Mitch explains it on the radio show much better than I could.

Here is the link to the episode:

http://www.iheart.com/show/Mitch-in-the ... d=27187043

Pretty good stuff. I don't know how we got this idea where we could re-sign Russell and take a cap hit less than 10 million. I don't see it.

I'll ask the question again, does not signing Wilson this season damage his relationship with the team at all?

I think you are missing the point. They can give Russ a massive signing bonus, it still gets spread out over the life of the contract. The contract will not be for 2015. That year is already contrcted. 2016,17,18,19, and 2020 would be a likely new contract. The signing bonus he gets for signing it would be paid now, but not charged to the cap until the new contract is being played. 2016 would be the first year. His cap hit next year would be 20 mil or so, but this year? Same as it is now.

Not signing Russ probably does little to his relationship with the team, but does bring up a possibility they want to avoid, consecutive franchise tags on a QB. Consecutive tags on a LB are less prohibitive.

 

[Jayburd14]

I bet they already have the numbers worked out, I think Russell will sign after his baseball gig with the Rangers.

 

[Hyak]

Yeah they can't afford much of a signing bonus at all, which is of course the problem. I guess they could throw huge guarantees throughout the contract instead of signing bonus, but I'm guessing Russ is gonna want a big chunk up front.

Also, Graham's number against the cap is supposedly 8+ this year, and 2M for Unger in dead money. Mitch explains it on the radio show much better than I could.

Here is the link to the episode:

http://www.iheart.com/show/Mitch-in-the ... d=27187043

Pretty good stuff. I don't know how we got this idea where we could re-sign Russell and take a cap hit less than 10 million. I don't see it.

I'll ask the question again, does not signing Wilson this season damage his relationship with the team at all?

I think you are missing the point. They can give Russ a massive signing bonus, it still gets spread out over the life of the contract. The contract will not be for 2015. That year is already contrcted. 2016,17,18,19, and 2020 would be a likely new contract. The signing bonus he gets for signing it would be paid now, but not charged to the cap until the new contract is being played. 2016 would be the first year. His cap hit next year would be 20 mil or so, but this year? Same as it is now.

Not signing Russ probably does little to his relationship with the team, but does bring up a possibility they want to avoid, consecutive franchise tags on a QB. Consecutive tags on a LB are less prohibitive.

On these extensions, the signing bonus money would be spread out over 5 years (max per CBA) and would start to hit this season if they strike the deal this spring or summer. That being said, if you look at all of the extensions that the Seahawks have done with their core guys, they are almost always 4-year deals with a 5-year signing bonus proration. Because the Seahawks believe in cash/cap being equal, they are in the camp of having moderate signing bonuses and higher base salaries that are often guaranteed. The rationale - you pay as you go for a players productivity to avoid having huge dead money trouble down the road like some teams have had.

Right now, Wilson has a cap number of $ 1.697 M - base of $ 1.542 M and a prorated signing bonus of $ 154,868 from his rookie deal. If they come to an extension, I'd expect to see a deal with a moderate signing bonus ($ 5 - $ 15 M) that would increase his 2015 cap by $ 1 M - 3 M but then see pretty significant guaranteed base salaries for 2016 and beyond (cap numbers around $ 15 M or so). They may steer from the 4-year extension model for RW but the framework would be the same.

 

[Hawkfan77]

Yeah they can't afford much of a signing bonus at all, which is of course the problem. I guess they could throw huge guarantees throughout the contract instead of signing bonus, but I'm guessing Russ is gonna want a big chunk up front.

Also, Graham's number against the cap is supposedly 8+ this year, and 2M for Unger in dead money. Mitch explains it on the radio show much better than I could.

Here is the link to the episode:

http://www.iheart.com/show/Mitch-in-the ... d=27187043

Pretty good stuff. I don't know how we got this idea where we could re-sign Russell and take a cap hit less than 10 million. I don't see it.

I'll ask the question again, does not signing Wilson this season damage his relationship with the team at all?

I think you are missing the point. They can give Russ a massive signing bonus, it still gets spread out over the life of the contract. The contract will not be for 2015. That year is already contrcted. 2016,17,18,19, and 2020 would be a likely new contract. The signing bonus he gets for signing it would be paid now, but not charged to the cap until the new contract is being played. 2016 would be the first year. His cap hit next year would be 20 mil or so, but this year? Same as it is now.

Not signing Russ probably does little to his relationship with the team, but does bring up a possibility they want to avoid, consecutive franchise tags on a QB. Consecutive tags on a LB are less prohibitive.

I always thought signing bonuses could only be spread out for 5 years max

 

[Popeyejones]

They can still extennd both of them without much problem.

The only thing they've done this offseason so far which I'd question a bit is the Cary Williams signing. I just don't get it.

That's five million that could have gone into not backloading Wilson and/or Wagner, and for a 30 year old Williams it just seems like way too much money, particularly given that it's more or less a one year deal with 2 million in dead money tacked on after this year (that they're going to be taking 6 and 7 million dollar cap hits on Cary Williams when he's 31 and 32 just seems incredibly unlikely).

Without even thinking about the money that could have gone into backloading Wilson or Wagner less (which is actually important for a team as talented and young overall as the Hawks), why spend 5 million on Cary Williams this year and lose two million in dead money for him next year at the opening of the market when for the price you could have gotten two equivalent (or better) players on real life one year prove it deals at the end of the market? I simply don't get it.

As for waiting until after this year to resign Wilson or Wagner, I just don't think that's going to happen, as if the feelings about staying together are mutual (and I assume they are), it's just not worth the risk to either side (injury or poor performance risk for the players, and competition for services risk for the Seahawks). And if for some bizarre reason this IS the plan, if Wilson ends up resigning at the ring of the bell of the new league year next year, the NFL will likely have something to say about it.

If I were a Hawks fan I wouldn't worry about it though. There's just no reason for either side to not have these deals done before they start playing football again.

 

[BuZzB28]

We must pay to Wagner and Wilson. Wagner was a great defense and good leader for us. Wilson got two super bowl for two times. How much $$ worth for Wagner and Wilson? Hope they should stay for us.

 

[Largent80]

Just heard on KIRO radio that Russ' contract is ready to be signed.

 

[Hyak]

They can still extennd both of them without much problem.

The only thing they've done this offseason so far which I'd question a bit is the Cary Williams signing. I just don't get it.

That's five million that could have gone into not backloading Wilson and/or Wagner, and for a 30 year old Williams it just seems like way too much money, particularly given that it's more or less a one year deal with 2 million in dead money tacked on after this year (that they're going to be taking 6 and 7 million dollar cap hits on Cary Williams when he's 31 and 32 just seems incredibly unlikely).

Without even thinking about the money that could have gone into backloading Wilson or Wagner less (which is actually important for a team as talented and young overall as the Hawks), why spend 5 million on Cary Williams this year and lose two million in dead money for him next year at the opening of the market when for the price you could have gotten two equivalent (or better) players on real life one year prove it deals at the end of the market? I simply don't get it.

As for waiting until after this year to resign Wilson or Wagner, I just don't think that's going to happen, as if the feelings about staying together are mutual (and I assume they are), it's just not worth the risk to either side (injury or poor performance risk for the players, and competition for services risk for the Seahawks). And if for some bizarre reason this IS the plan, if Wilson ends up resigning at the ring of the bell of the new league year next year, the NFL will likely have something to say about it.

If I were a Hawks fan I wouldn't worry about it though. There's just no reason for either side to not have these deals done before they start playing football again.

The Cary Williams deal is clearly a result of a HUGE need given the loss of Maxwell and injuries to Lane and Simon that will sideline them for the offseason and in Lane's case the first part of the season. In addition, the CB market went crazy. The deal they signed with Williams was below market based on what happened after March 10th.

Even so, the deal is structured to easily be a one-year deal. If the Hawks walk away from it next March, they would create 2.33 M in dead money but save 3.8 M in cap space. If he plays well, paying him 6 M for a #2 CB is market rate.

 

[3Girls'HawkDad]

Year after year guys fret about the cap.

Yet we extend Earl, Kam, Sherman etc. We add Avril, Bennett, Harvin, Graham.

Bo Duke knows what he is doing. Date I say the man is a cap genius.