Wagner and Wilson not going to get done this year?

[Hyak]

I'm pretty sure Lynch was set to be a free agent when he signed his previous contract with us, but we re-signed him just before free agency. This time we did extend that original contract with a year left though.

John has said that he doesn't like to extend before a year, as it sets a bad precedent which is why Lynch didn't get an extension last year, but got one this year. But you are correct, John likes to extend rookie deals so he can use the last low paying salary year and couple it with the signing bonus to keep the cap under control and the players happy.

I think you are correct. It looked like he initially had a 6-year deal from Buffalo but year 6 (2012) must have voided out.

The irony, then, is that the deals for Lynch and Bennett to keep them off the free agent market were also 4-year deals. From a strategic view, 4-year deals probably are best for both sides. Limits risk on both sides but sets the player up for another payday in their prime.

 

[BlueTalon]

... if Wilson ends up resigning at the ring of the bell of the new league year next year, the NFL will likely have something to say about it.

Why is that?

 

[BlueTalon]

They can give Russ a massive signing bonus, it still gets spread out over the life of the contract. The contract will not be for 2015. That year is already contrcted. 2016,17,18,19, and 2020 would be a likely new contract. The signing bonus he gets for signing it would be paid now, but not charged to the cap until the new contract is being played. 2016 would be the first year. His cap hit next year would be 20 mil or so, but this year? Same as it is now.

I see this as a recurring theme in this thread, and I really doubt it's correct. Why make the assumption that the last year of Wilson's current contract won't get ripped up? Players renegotiate their contracts all the time, and those renegotiations don't represent extensions, they change the terms of the existing contract. The Seahawks did that with Brandon Browner a couple years ago, ripped up his $1/2M contract for the year and gave him a $1M contract, with no extension.

But even if they did an extension and leave the current contract intact, if he signs the contract this year and there is a signing bonus, I'm pretty sure he gets that money this year, not next year.

I don't think there's any way in he!! that Russell signs an extension this year that provides him with no additional money this year.

 

[Popeyejones]

... if Wilson ends up resigning at the ring of the bell of the new league year next year, the NFL will likely have something to say about it.

Why is that?

Because it will read to absolutely everyone that they'd had a deal in place for a long time and are just playing cap games, and the NFL has recently and dumbly been making threats about agreeing to contracts in everything but signatures in advance.

 

[Hyak]

I see this as a recurring theme in this thread, and I really doubt it's correct. Why make the assumption that the last year of Wilson's current contract won't get ripped up? Players renegotiate their contracts all the time, and those renegotiations don't represent extensions, they change the terms of the existing contract. The Seahawks did that with Brandon Browner a couple years ago, ripped up his $1/2M contract for the year and gave him a $1M contract, with no extension.

But even if they did an extension and leave the current contract intact, if he signs the contract this year and there is a signing bonus, I'm pretty sure he gets that money this year, not next year.

I don't think there's any way in he!! that Russell signs an extension this year that provides him with no additional money this year.

I think he'll get a deal much like Rodgers 2008 or Sherman 2014. A decent signing bonus (to be prorated) and much larger guaranteed money in terms of base salary/roster bonuses kicking in starting in 2016. They may give up a moderate bump in his base salary for 2015 but I'm sure the plan is to keep the 2015 cap number as low as possible. It may be a cap number of $ 5 M for 2015 but the average cap number of the overall deal will be much larger ($ 15 M - $ 20 M).

 

[Hyak]

... if Wilson ends up resigning at the ring of the bell of the new league year next year, the NFL will likely have something to say about it.

Why is that?

Because it will read to absolutely everyone that they'd had a deal in place for a long time and are just playing cap games, and the NFL has recently and dumbly been making threats about agreeing to contracts in everything but signatures in advance.

The NFL was threatening teams with tampering before the free agency period began. That only applies in terms of talking to players not on your team or not yet free agents. Like Miami having the Suh deal done before 3/10.

Negotiating with players on your own team that are under contract is completely fine.

 

[TAB420]

... if Wilson ends up resigning at the ring of the bell of the new league year next year, the NFL will likely have something to say about it.

Why is that?

Because it will read to absolutely everyone that they'd had a deal in place for a long time and are just playing cap games, and the NFL has recently and dumbly been making threats about agreeing to contracts in everything but signatures in advance.

Timing is everything...... :th2thumbs:

 

[kidhawk]

... if Wilson ends up resigning at the ring of the bell of the new league year next year, the NFL will likely have something to say about it.

Why is that?

Because it will read to absolutely everyone that they'd had a deal in place for a long time and are just playing cap games, and the NFL has recently and dumbly been making threats about agreeing to contracts in everything but signatures in advance.

Teams that have players under contract are free to negotiate with their players (or agents) at any time. The window is just for Free Agents from other teams.

Not that it matters, because they've already been in discussions and will have a deal in place before the first OTA

 

[kearly]

On these extensions, the signing bonus money would be spread out over 5 years (max per CBA) and would start to hit this season if they strike the deal this spring or summer. That being said, if you look at all of the extensions that the Seahawks have done with their core guys, they are almost always 4-year deals with a 5-year signing bonus proration. Because the Seahawks believe in cash/cap being equal, they are in the camp of having moderate signing bonuses and higher base salaries that are often guaranteed. The rationale - you pay as you go for a players productivity to avoid having huge dead money trouble down the road like some teams have had.

Correct. I've mentioned the scenarios where Seattle gives Wilson a huge signing bonus because that's what every other QB gets (Kaep aside). But in reality, JS has been strongly averse to huge signing bonuses, preferring instead to guarantee the first year or two of a deal to reach a competitive guaranteed money number. He does this for exactly the reason you state, to minimize future dead money, which also helps him in contract renegotiation attempts down the road.

When JS talks about getting creative on a deal, I think he means it in the Kaepernick sense. Small signing bonus, lots of roster bonuses, lots of incentives. A couple years fully guaranteed to hit the 30-50 $million guaranteed requirement.

In return Wilson is going to get A LOT of money. Less than $22 million would surprise me. He might get $25 million AYP. But like the Kaepernick deal (also a deal that surprised people by how large it was), some of that money will be a mirage, and the deal will be flexible enough to help Seattle move money around like going to the bank in future seasons.

 

[kearly]

They can still extennd both of them without much problem.

The only thing they've done this offseason so far which I'd question a bit is the Cary Williams signing. I just don't get it.

Seattle is desperate at corner. No, really. As great as Sherman is, less than 10% of the passes target him. Maxwell is gone. Lane is recovering from two nasty injuries. Simon basically just cost us a SB. Burley isn't starter caliber yet. Blackmon was cut by the Jags, and is 32 next season.

And the draft is reputed to suck for corners, particularly the kind of corners with height and length that Seattle targets.

Williams fits the system and will probably be a Brandon Browner type of reclamation. Not saying he will be as good as Maxwell, but he will be a lot better here than he was in Philly. I'm not hyping him at all, but this was a key signing by Seattle. And the reason they paid so much was because there were several other teams bidding him up.

 

[kearly]

I don't think there's any way in he!! that Russell signs an extension this year that provides him with no additional money this year.

I have zero doubt that Wilson plans on playing until he's 40 years old with the hopes of being the most storied QB in the game. He is a big picture guy. So long as the guaranteed money is right, I doubt he'd fuss about his 2015 pay.

That said, it's hard to imagine a scenario where Wilson doesn't make serious bank in 2015. Even if he had a $10 million signing bonus, which is tiny for his situation, that's still $10 million he'd receive up front. Even if Wilson's cap hit is small in 2015, his take home pay this year will still be substantial unless he gets no signing bonus at all. Which would be essentially unprecedented in the modern NFL.

 

[kidhawk]

They can give Russ a massive signing bonus, it still gets spread out over the life of the contract. The contract will not be for 2015. That year is already contrcted. 2016,17,18,19, and 2020 would be a likely new contract. The signing bonus he gets for signing it would be paid now, but not charged to the cap until the new contract is being played. 2016 would be the first year. His cap hit next year would be 20 mil or so, but this year? Same as it is now.

I see this as a recurring theme in this thread, and I really doubt it's correct. Why make the assumption that the last year of Wilson's current contract won't get ripped up? Players renegotiate their contracts all the time, and those renegotiations don't represent extensions, they change the terms of the existing contract. The Seahawks did that with Brandon Browner a couple years ago, ripped up his $1/2M contract for the year and gave him a $1M contract, with no extension.

But even if they did an extension and leave the current contract intact, if he signs the contract this year and there is a signing bonus, I'm pretty sure he gets that money this year, not next year.

I don't think there's any way in he!! that Russell signs an extension this year that provides him with no additional money this year.

This is where watching the recent history of the front office pays dividends. Look at Kam, Earl and Sherman as prime examples. They all signed extensions leaving their old contract in place and getting a signing bonus so they could take home a nice living for this season while that money is spread out. Then the base values increase in the following years.

Wilson will undoubtedly do the same. His base salary from his previous contract will stay the same, but he will get a very fat signing bonus that will be payable the minute he signs the contract, which is basically guaranteed money up front. He could easily receive a bonus of $20 million and possibly even into the 30's. Once spread out, it only adds $6-8 million to our cap this year, he'll continue to receive his current base salary, but will in essence, receive $20+ million in his bank account this season.

The only really big question with Wilson is how long will the deal be, and how much of it will be fully guaranteed

 

[rideaducati]

The team had roughly $29 million in space before the big offseason moves began. The Lynch extension didn't change his 2015 cap hit. The net of the Graham trade was only something like $4.6 million net cap hit. Cary Williams 2015 cap hit was around $4-5 million I think. So basically, Seattle should have roughly $20 million left, not counting small moves for camp bodies that are unlikely to impact the cap negatively.

They also need far less than $4 million to sign their picks, since they dealt away their first round picks and the rest of their selections will basically make minimum money, replacing other guys who were making minimum money.

Kaepernick's extension came a year early, and because of that his year one cap hit was very small, I think it was around $10 million. Wilson and Wagner would be signing a year early, so their first year cap hit would be a small one. The Hawks easily have enough money to fit both in the budget right now, especially considering the cap growth in 2015 and 2016 and the dead money that will come off the books next year (Harvin).

Seattle knows how to budget. They aren't Al Davis or Jerry Jones. When they signed KJ Wright to way too much money, it was a sign that Seattle actually had a lot of cash to blow and felt that Wright was worth burning that cash on. I am assuming Miller was cut for health reasons.

Before today's signing we had about $15M left (this is based on the top 51 contracts on the roster). Yes we don't have a 1st round pick but we have 4 comp picks to pay. If you look up the 2014 rookie pay scale for those rounds you can expect us to pay just over $5M (about $5.1M) for our rookies this year which is about equal to if we had our first round pick but no comp picks. Not including today's signing and if you take out the money for the rookies we have around $10M as of this morning.

I expect them both to be signed this spring after the draft but I wanted to clarify our current cap numbers due to some confusing from the numbers you provided.

Will the Seahawks even be getting comp picks in THIS YEAR'S draft? I thought the comp picks were the FOLLOWING draft and were based on playing time AND contract. The Seahawks lost Tate and Breno last season, but signed a bunch too. I don't think the Seahawks will get their windfall of comp picks til the 2016 draft.

 

[kidhawk]

Will the Seahawks even be getting comp picks in THIS YEAR'S draft? I thought the comp picks were the FOLLOWING draft and were based on playing time AND contract. The Seahawks lost Tate and Breno last season, but signed a bunch too. I don't think the Seahawks will get their windfall of comp picks til the 2016 draft.

There are some threads on comps in the draft forum, but to answer your question, we are getting quite a few comps this year. I don't think the official list has been released, but overthecap.com has shown estimates of possibly 2 4th rounders, 2 5th rounds and a 6th round this year. That is because we lost guys like Tate, Avril and others last year. We will get comps next year for guys like Maxwell.

Here's an article that is posted in the draft forum that talks about Rookie salaries and also has a table for expected comps for 2015 & 2016

[urltargetblank]http://overthecap.com/draft/[/urltargetblank]

 

[rideaducati]

Will the Seahawks even be getting comp picks in THIS YEAR'S draft? I thought the comp picks were the FOLLOWING draft and were based on playing time AND contract. The Seahawks lost Tate and Breno last season, but signed a bunch too. I don't think the Seahawks will get their windfall of comp picks til the 2016 draft.

There are some threads on comps in the draft forum, but to answer your question, we are getting quite a few comps this year. I don't think the official list has been released, but overthecap.com has shown estimates of possibly 2 4th rounders, 2 5th rounds and a 6th round this year. That is because we lost guys like Tate, Avril and others last year. We will get comps next year for guys like Maxwell.

Here's an article that is posted in the draft forum that talks about Rookie salaries and also has a table for expected comps for 2015 & 2016

[urltargetblank]http://overthecap.com/draft/[/urltargetblank]

I don't spend any time in the draft forum because I don't pay attention to college football and don't know any of the draftees coming into the NFL. I guess I'll mosey on over there and have a look.

Avril?

 

[kidhawk]

Will the Seahawks even be getting comp picks in THIS YEAR'S draft? I thought the comp picks were the FOLLOWING draft and were based on playing time AND contract. The Seahawks lost Tate and Breno last season, but signed a bunch too. I don't think the Seahawks will get their windfall of comp picks til the 2016 draft.

There are some threads on comps in the draft forum, but to answer your question, we are getting quite a few comps this year. I don't think the official list has been released, but overthecap.com has shown estimates of possibly 2 4th rounders, 2 5th rounds and a 6th round this year. That is because we lost guys like Tate, Avril and others last year. We will get comps next year for guys like Maxwell.

Here's an article that is posted in the draft forum that talks about Rookie salaries and also has a table for expected comps for 2015 & 2016

[urltargetblank]http://overthecap.com/draft/[/urltargetblank]

I don't spend any time in the draft forum because I don't pay attention to college football and don't know any of the draftees coming into the NFL. I guess I'll mosey on over there and have a look.

Avril?

I have no idea why I said Avril. I was clearly not thinking straight. That's what happens when I am typing here and trying to get work done at the same time

 

[bigtrain21]

Will the Seahawks even be getting comp picks in THIS YEAR'S draft? I thought the comp picks were the FOLLOWING draft and were based on playing time AND contract. The Seahawks lost Tate and Breno last season, but signed a bunch too. I don't think the Seahawks will get their windfall of comp picks til the 2016 draft.

There are some threads on comps in the draft forum, but to answer your question, we are getting quite a few comps this year. I don't think the official list has been released, but overthecap.com has shown estimates of possibly 2 4th rounders, 2 5th rounds and a 6th round this year. That is because we lost guys like Tate, Avril and others last year. We will get comps next year for guys like Maxwell.

Here's an article that is posted in the draft forum that talks about Rookie salaries and also has a table for expected comps for 2015 & 2016

[urltargetblank]http://overthecap.com/draft/[/urltargetblank]

I don't spend any time in the draft forum because I don't pay attention to college football and don't know any of the draftees coming into the NFL. I guess I'll mosey on over there and have a look.

Avril?

I have no idea why I said Avril. I was clearly not thinking straight. That's what happens when I am typing here and trying to get work done at the same time

I think you meant to type Clemons.

 

[kidhawk]

I have no idea why I said Avril. I was clearly not thinking straight. That's what happens when I am typing here and trying to get work done at the same time

I think you meant to type Clemons.

Funnily enough, I can't even remember what I was thinking. You're probably right, but I have no idea. It was so bad when I first read where you wrote "Avril" I didn't know what you were talking about :lol:

 

[rideaducati]

I have no idea why I said Avril. I was clearly not thinking straight. That's what happens when I am typing here and trying to get work done at the same time

I think you meant to type Clemons.

Funnily enough, I can't even remember what I was thinking. You're probably right, but I have no idea. It was so bad when I first read where you wrote "Avril" I didn't know what you were talking about :lol:

But Clemons was a cut, not a free agent signing elsewhere. Players lost last year were Golden Tate, Brandon Browner, Breno Giacomini, Clinton McDonald, Walter Thurmond, Paul McQuiston, Chris Maragos. The Seahawks didn't sign any qualifying free agents last year, so they should receive up to four comp picks in this draft.

I guess I should have done the research earlier AND on another thread.

Oh well, oops.

 

[Scottemojo]

I wasn't aware of all the rules about signing bonuses. I learned something today. Good thread.