Well watching the Rams game

[Uncle Si]

Should have thrown sooner is the same thing as throwing more, to be fair.

Yeah, they waited too long. But.. if the D makes a tackle on 3rd and 17 in the final minutes then the team has the ball, down 3/6 points with 4 minutes to go. This is the scenario PC is trying for. He was poor tackling away from being in the position he wanted.

Watching the team march down the field and score down 11 in now way definitively shows how successful the team wouldve been had they started the 2nd half that way. Dallas was very clearly rushing with 4 and dropping deep, allowing for more room to complete passes. Their D would've been different to start the 2nd.

Would it have mattered? Hard to say. But proclamations that it would ignore the way the team has been successful all season, and in PC's past 7 years.

Actually no if you look at our success just this year we did rin, but when it struggled we adjusted see the Carolina Game as one example. That was the difference in this game we waited too long to adjust, Now was it the only issue? NO, but it was one, and some on here want to ignore it or say it was not which is wrong. Given both the HC and OC said they should have starting throwing sooner and more It is safe to say we should have

Actuay no? You just repeated what i said. You also bring up carolina. Interesting because as the team marched up the field with high risk passes they also gave the ball back to the Panthers quickly who were running their offense almost at will. That is something PC tries to guard against.

Look at the first cowboys game that while the run wasnt breaking the game open it was controlling it.

So regardless of what PC has said, if the D makes tbe one stop they need the offense has the ball in a situztion PC has wanted his team to be in for years.

Couple game highlights of our bigger games in the PC era demonstrate that.

The only issue i have with the Dallas 2nd half was that there wasnt much balance or flexibility. That doesnt mean the team needed to start hurling the ball over

ahh for one we won Carolina that said I never said throw all the time and only throw. I said start throwing more, not exclusively. If we threw more in the 1st half, mix it up more, it would have opened up the run more in the 2nd like Carolina. So like the Head Coach, OC, Qb, and just experts said we should have made our adjustments sooner.

Let me help you with Carolina
1st drive run, run, 3rd and long pass, pint
2nd drive run, run, 3rfd and long punt.
3rd drive pass, run, pass, run, pass, pass, pass, run, run, pass TD hmm amazing 10 plays
4th drive sack, run, run
5th drive run, run, pass, run, pass, run TD 7 plays
6th drive run, run, run, Pass, run, run, pass TD now why do you think these runs started working after not in the 1st half. answer the pass was working.

I will stop there, there was no more a high risk passing this game than any other and once again the run was not working against Dallas, however unlike the Carolina game were they adjusted in the 2nd qtr, they waited till the 4th against Dallas. THat was the mistake not adjusting sooner, which I have been saying all along that adjustment was around the pass game.

Yes. You keep saying they didnt adjust sooner.

And yet if the defense holds in 3rd and 17 the team has the ball in a one score game with plenty of time to win, which is a staple of PCs philosophy.

At this point your posts are exclusively focused on one singular belief it wouldve made the difference.

Also ignores carolina missing 2 maybe 3 dback starters and a back up if i recall... and not having near the defense Dallas did. Also.. i mean come on.. 2 drives not working then suddenly everything clicks and its the pass? One sets up the other. Always has with PC. The balance in carolina was easy.

Could the hawks have done better against the cowboys? Absolutely. But its not as easy as "throw more" or play sequence. The game was going to plan by PCs standards.

You can argue if thats good enough for the future.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

FYI they were not in prevent all the 4th qtr nice try though

Oh? Where is your proof of this? I remember seeing the box thin up on the Dallas side in the 4th quarter. I suppose I have the wrong impression, but that's what I remember at the moment. Perhaps I'll look at the tape again.

Citing "most people" is an appeal to authority and a fallacious argument. They've acknowledged that they could have thrown more times. But you are zeroing in on that as BY FAR the biggest problem and pushing the other issues to the margins. I'd say the play-calling was 25% of the issue. The other issues - Dallas playing better, poor execution, and the bizarre defense on the 3rd and 14 - comprise the other 75%.

 

[mrt144]

Actually no if you look at our success just this year we did rin, but when it struggled we adjusted see the Carolina Game as one example. That was the difference in this game we waited too long to adjust, Now was it the only issue? NO, but it was one, and some on here want to ignore it or say it was not which is wrong. Given both the HC and OC said they should have starting throwing sooner and more It is safe to say we should have

Actuay no? You just repeated what i said. You also bring up carolina. Interesting because as the team marched up the field with high risk passes they also gave the ball back to the Panthers quickly who were running their offense almost at will. That is something PC tries to guard against.

Look at the first cowboys game that while the run wasnt breaking the game open it was controlling it.

So regardless of what PC has said, if the D makes tbe one stop they need the offense has the ball in a situztion PC has wanted his team to be in for years.

Couple game highlights of our bigger games in the PC era demonstrate that.

The only issue i have with the Dallas 2nd half was that there wasnt much balance or flexibility. That doesnt mean the team needed to start hurling the ball over

ahh for one we won Carolina that said I never said throw all the time and only throw. I said start throwing more, not exclusively. If we threw more in the 1st half, mix it up more, it would have opened up the run more in the 2nd like Carolina. So like the Head Coach, OC, Qb, and just experts said we should have made our adjustments sooner.

Let me help you with Carolina
1st drive run, run, 3rd and long pass, pint
2nd drive run, run, 3rfd and long punt.
3rd drive pass, run, pass, run, pass, pass, pass, run, run, pass TD hmm amazing 10 plays
4th drive sack, run, run
5th drive run, run, pass, run, pass, run TD 7 plays
6th drive run, run, run, Pass, run, run, pass TD now why do you think these runs started working after not in the 1st half. answer the pass was working.

I will stop there, there was no more a high risk passing this game than any other and once again the run was not working against Dallas, however unlike the Carolina game were they adjusted in the 2nd qtr, they waited till the 4th against Dallas. THat was the mistake not adjusting sooner, which I have been saying all along that adjustment was around the pass game.

Yes. You keep saying they didnt adjust sooner.

And yet if the defense holds in 3rd and 17 the team has the ball in a one score game with plenty of time to win, which is a staple of PCs philosophy.

At this point your posts are exclusively focused on one singular belief it wouldve made the difference.

Also ignores carolina missing 2 maybe 3 dback starters and a back up if i recall... and not having near the defense Dallas did. Also.. i mean come on.. 2 drives not working then suddenly everything clicks and its the pass? One sets up the other. Always has with PC. The balance in carolina was easy.

Could the hawks have done better against the cowboys? Absolutely. But its not as easy as "throw more" or play sequence. The game was going to plan by PCs standards.

You can argue if thats good enough for the future.

Its not as easy as " throw more" because Schotty doesnt bring as nearly a cogent passing game to the table as other OCs. They dont pass as their standard or desired means to accrue yards so they cant just leap into action and do the damn thing consistently. Can RW do some RW stuff amd get it done sometimes? Hell yeah but...This is what happens when you purposefully seek phony "balance" in a meta game state where passing has a higher value than rushing. They pass out of neccescity and to hit explosive plays where they see a favorable matchup - RW will even audible into these.

And theres was also a refusal use the concepts the team already employs with passing like play action from the get go. It doesnt strictly need a strong rushing game to leverage it and it could have helped with some of the d line penetration, but we will never know.

There was also the consistent call of inside runs...despite two injured guards? Even if one likes to run and run a certain way...i dont give a crap about sweezys heart...it was just ineffective execution.

This was like watching a clam digger refusing to acknowledge the tide was coming in and then were up to their eyeballs in sea water and they dont swim so well cause they only ever plan on wading into the water.

Im only salty cause playoffs. Cool season overall l, just really wish the one thing that we knew couldnt happen to our offense and defense cause itd really screw things up did happen did happen and the hawks looked hapless.

 

[John63]

FYI they were not in prevent all the 4th qtr nice try though

Oh? Where is your proof of this? I remember seeing the box thin up on the Dallas side in the 4th quarter. I suppose I have the wrong impression, but that's what I remember at the moment. Perhaps I'll look at the tape again.

Citing "most people" is an appeal to authority and a fallacious argument. They've acknowledged that they could have thrown more times. But you are zeroing in on that as BY FAR the biggest problem and pushing the other issues to the margins. I'd say the play-calling was 25% of the issue. The other issues - Dallas playing better, poor execution, and the bizarre defense on the 3rd and 14 - comprise the other 75%.

I never said it was the biggest problem I said it was a big problem, there are a few, BUt to me when you see something is not working and refuse to do anything else till it's too late is bad coaching and that concerns me more,

You see here is the thing we had to oline playing hurt so we got what we got from them.
We had 2 BD playing hurt so again we got what we got,
However to not make any adjustment son eithe rside til lits to talte is ridiculous

All that aside

Bunchin gup at least 3 issues into 1 to make it be so much bigger than another is pretty lame

So lets play

you say 25% was play calling
Dallas playing better is say 25%
poor execution is say 25% through the injuries may have had a lot to do with that, and I will presume penalties goes here. One would think that since they knew going in some were playing hurt they would have adjusted in some way with defensive calls or offensive calls to try to mitigate those injuries Hmm.
Weird defense on 3rd down is 25%, THough I wonder how much of that was other players trying to help those who were playing hurt?

So Play calling or lack of adjustments til lit was too late was huge and now that I think about it maybe on both sides of the field.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

They beat an average Cowboys team at home, meh. Good team, but are about to go down to the Saints. Can't wait to see it. But yeah, it was annoying to see how well they ran the ball against the Cowboys.

 

[Uncle Si]

Actuay no? You just repeated what i said. You also bring up carolina. Interesting because as the team marched up the field with high risk passes they also gave the ball back to the Panthers quickly who were running their offense almost at will. That is something PC tries to guard against.

Look at the first cowboys game that while the run wasnt breaking the game open it was controlling it.

So regardless of what PC has said, if the D makes tbe one stop they need the offense has the ball in a situztion PC has wanted his team to be in for years.

Couple game highlights of our bigger games in the PC era demonstrate that.

The only issue i have with the Dallas 2nd half was that there wasnt much balance or flexibility. That doesnt mean the team needed to start hurling the ball over

ahh for one we won Carolina that said I never said throw all the time and only throw. I said start throwing more, not exclusively. If we threw more in the 1st half, mix it up more, it would have opened up the run more in the 2nd like Carolina. So like the Head Coach, OC, Qb, and just experts said we should have made our adjustments sooner.

Let me help you with Carolina
1st drive run, run, 3rd and long pass, pint
2nd drive run, run, 3rfd and long punt.
3rd drive pass, run, pass, run, pass, pass, pass, run, run, pass TD hmm amazing 10 plays
4th drive sack, run, run
5th drive run, run, pass, run, pass, run TD 7 plays
6th drive run, run, run, Pass, run, run, pass TD now why do you think these runs started working after not in the 1st half. answer the pass was working.

I will stop there, there was no more a high risk passing this game than any other and once again the run was not working against Dallas, however unlike the Carolina game were they adjusted in the 2nd qtr, they waited till the 4th against Dallas. THat was the mistake not adjusting sooner, which I have been saying all along that adjustment was around the pass game.

Yes. You keep saying they didnt adjust sooner.

And yet if the defense holds in 3rd and 17 the team has the ball in a one score game with plenty of time to win, which is a staple of PCs philosophy.

At this point your posts are exclusively focused on one singular belief it wouldve made the difference.

Also ignores carolina missing 2 maybe 3 dback starters and a back up if i recall... and not having near the defense Dallas did. Also.. i mean come on.. 2 drives not working then suddenly everything clicks and its the pass? One sets up the other. Always has with PC. The balance in carolina was easy.

Could the hawks have done better against the cowboys? Absolutely. But its not as easy as "throw more" or play sequence. The game was going to plan by PCs standards.

You can argue if thats good enough for the future.

Its not as easy as " throw more" because Schotty doesnt bring as nearly a cogent passing game to the table as other OCs. They dont pass as their standard or desired means to accrue yards so they cant just leap into action and do the damn thing consistently. Can RW do some RW stuff amd get it done sometimes? Hell yeah but...This is what happens when you purposefully seek phony "balance" in a meta game state where passing has a higher value than rushing. They pass out of neccescity and to hit explosive plays where they see a favorable matchup - RW will even audible into these.

And theres was also a refusal use the concepts the team already employs with passing like play action from the get go. It doesnt strictly need a strong rushing game to leverage it and it could have helped with some of the d line penetration, but we will never know.

There was also the consistent call of inside runs...despite two injured guards? Even if one likes to run and run a certain way...i dont give a crap about sweezys heart...it was just ineffective execution.

This was like watching a clam digger refusing to acknowledge the tide was coming in and then were up to their eyeballs in sea water and they dont swim so well cause they only ever plan on wading into the water.

Im only salty cause playoffs. Cool season overall l, just really wish the one thing that we knew couldnt happen to our offense and defense cause itd really screw things up did happen did happen and the hawks looked hapless.

I dont disagree. Just saying that the gameplan was playing itself out in a way PC finds acceptable/optimal.

Results are results. And maybe thats the hard thing with this year. It far exceeded expectations but also was infuriatingly short of them as well (as they changed with each outstanding performance)

 

[TreeRon]

This AM's Associated Press headline in my papers's sports section "Whitworth's line dominates as Rams power past Cowboys".
Here's at least one sports writer that calls out the O line a significant reason for Ram's domination.
BTW Whitworth is 37 yrs old!

 

[ImTheScientist]

Those same guards got to pass protect do they not? Stand on one leg and have your wife push on you. Not real effective at staying upright.
Having appendage injuries on the O line with no reliable back-ups does not bode well for advancing the ball. Both Flucker and Sweezy have injury isssues, they are not dependable. We need to use them as back-ups and get two experienced (good to excellent) guards. If we can pound the ball against anyone, the rest falls into place.
If we have a scary pass rush that shortens the release time for an opposing QB the secondary play will look a lot better. We need a productive pass rusher to compliment Clark.

Someone gets it. If we don't fix the middle of the line then we are destined for many more one and done's.

The Rams actually have a better oline than we do. That is the difference.

And better offensive scheme in general.

 

[DomeHawk]

Our strat wasn't bad our injuries limited it's execution, the Rams ran like hell on the Cowboys, they used the pass to spread the field and open up running lanes, our injuries killed us not the game plan as so many want to blame.

Our loss to the Steelers in the Super Bowl was lousy game planning as well using the reference everyone has been using for the Dallas loss, Etric Pruitt was not the blame now using hind sight, it was lousy game planning.

Wrong, and Coach Holmgren expressed as much on the radio this morning. To paraphrase, he said that the Cowboys defensive plan against the Seahawk's was to sell out for the run but for the Rams their plan was to stop the pass.

I guess we're lucky, every sportscaster, HOF players, and successful retired coaches have reiterated what everyone else, it seems, have said about the coaching, BUT we have you to set us all straight.

Funny.

 

[chris98251]

Our strat wasn't bad our injuries limited it's execution, the Rams ran like hell on the Cowboys, they used the pass to spread the field and open up running lanes, our injuries killed us not the game plan as so many want to blame.

Our loss to the Steelers in the Super Bowl was lousy game planning as well using the reference everyone has been using for the Dallas loss, Etric Pruitt was not the blame now using hind sight, it was lousy game planning.

Wrong, and Coach Holmgren expressed as much on the radio this morning. To paraphrase, he said that the Cowboys defensive plan against the Seahawk's was to sell out for the run but for the Rams their plan was to stop the pass.

I guess we're lucky, every sportscaster, HOF players, and successful retired coaches have reiterated what everyone else, it seems, have said about the coaching, BUT we have you to set us all straight.

Funny.

You want to attack me fine, I will play. They sold to stop the run we know that, we had injured lineman, we had a Baldwin that was nursing 3 injuries, we don't have route running skills in the other receivers that are suitable for the quick passing game or did you forget how Moore got torched for letting that interception happen, Lockett is a speed guy not a slot guy. You still have to pass block to pass the ball and they were blowing up the interior of our line and had a spy on Wilson.

I probably missed a few items but that's a start.

 

[sdog1981]

Fieldgulls broke down why the Rams could run all over the Cowboys.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/1/14/18 ... rley-penny


TLDR: The Rams are a threat to throw the ball all over the field on any given play so they faced light boxes all game and ran against 6 man fronts. The Seahawks attempted to run against more 8 man fronts in their game.

 

[mrt144]

Our strat wasn't bad our injuries limited it's execution, the Rams ran like hell on the Cowboys, they used the pass to spread the field and open up running lanes, our injuries killed us not the game plan as so many want to blame.

Our loss to the Steelers in the Super Bowl was lousy game planning as well using the reference everyone has been using for the Dallas loss, Etric Pruitt was not the blame now using hind sight, it was lousy game planning.

Wrong, and Coach Holmgren expressed as much on the radio this morning. To paraphrase, he said that the Cowboys defensive plan against the Seahawk's was to sell out for the run but for the Rams their plan was to stop the pass.

I guess we're lucky, every sportscaster, HOF players, and successful retired coaches have reiterated what everyone else, it seems, have said about the coaching, BUT we have you to set us all straight.

Funny.

You want to attack me fine, I will play. They sold to stop the run we know that, we had injured lineman, we had a Baldwin that was nursing 3 injuries, we don't have route running skills in the other receivers that are suitable for the quick passing game or did you forget how Moore got torched for letting that interception happen, Lockett is a speed guy not a slot guy. You still have to pass block to pass the ball and they were blowing up the interior of our line and had a spy on Wilson.

I probably missed a few items but that's a start.

We very well may have WRs with the route running ability, its just theyre prescribed to mostly run routes that try to minimize interceptions from errant passes or hotdog fingers. These same routes also are responsible for our lesser YAC metric because outs and backshoulder fades generally carry a dude OOB.

Can most of our WRs win 1 on 1? Probably not. But we rely almost exclusively on that which makes players look out of their depth, which for 1 on 1 they are.

Show me the failed execution of mesh concepts before we can say the WRs arent good at them.

 

[John63]

Fieldgulls broke down why the Rams could run all over the Cowboys.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/1/14/18 ... rley-penny


TLDR: The Rams are a threat to throw the ball all over the field on any given play so they faced light boxes all game and ran against 6 man fronts. The Seahawks attempted to run against more 8 man fronts in their game.

So that is game planning, and that is on the OC and HC oh wait we are not allowed to question them. To bad as the stats, facts, and information mounts proving we did not make adjustments soon enough

 

[MontanaHawk05]

Fieldgulls broke down why the Rams could run all over the Cowboys.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2019/1/14/18 ... rley-penny


TLDR: The Rams are a threat to throw the ball all over the field on any given play so they faced light boxes all game and ran against 6 man fronts. The Seahawks attempted to run against more 8 man fronts in their game.

Nobody's actually suggesting - even I'M not suggesting - that Seattle's passing attack has ever been up to snuff under Pete Carroll. In fact, I've been one of the biggest voices on this board over the fact that it hasn't been up to snuff. It's been rudimentary, held in place by a scant two players (Baldwin and Lockett) and bailed out over the years largely by individual playmaking. The "experts" have always pointed that out.

So Dallas disrespected Seattle's passing game, stacked the box, and trusted their DB's to shut down Lockett and Baldwin. That was actually an enormous risk, but it worked out thanks to solid effort by their DB's and their coach, whom most people here wanted gone from Seattle.

That is an entirely different interpretation of the game than "Passing is Better Than Rushing". The correct interpretation would have been "Good Passing is Better than Bad Passing".

 

[chris98251]

Our strat wasn't bad our injuries limited it's execution, the Rams ran like hell on the Cowboys, they used the pass to spread the field and open up running lanes, our injuries killed us not the game plan as so many want to blame.

Our loss to the Steelers in the Super Bowl was lousy game planning as well using the reference everyone has been using for the Dallas loss, Etric Pruitt was not the blame now using hind sight, it was lousy game planning.

Wrong, and Coach Holmgren expressed as much on the radio this morning. To paraphrase, he said that the Cowboys defensive plan against the Seahawk's was to sell out for the run but for the Rams their plan was to stop the pass.

I guess we're lucky, every sportscaster, HOF players, and successful retired coaches have reiterated what everyone else, it seems, have said about the coaching, BUT we have you to set us all straight.

Funny.

You want to attack me fine, I will play. They sold to stop the run we know that, we had injured lineman, we had a Baldwin that was nursing 3 injuries, we don't have route running skills in the other receivers that are suitable for the quick passing game or did you forget how Moore got torched for letting that interception happen, Lockett is a speed guy not a slot guy. You still have to pass block to pass the ball and they were blowing up the interior of our line and had a spy on Wilson.

I probably missed a few items but that's a start.

We very well may have WRs with the route running ability, its just theyre prescribed to mostly run routes that try to minimize interceptions from errant passes or hotdog fingers. These same routes also are responsible for our lesser YAC metric because outs and backshoulder fades generally carry a dude OOB.

Can most of our WRs win 1 on 1? Probably not. But we rely almost exclusively on that which makes players look out of their depth, which for 1 on 1 they are.

Show me the failed execution of mesh concepts before we can say the WRs arent good at them.

Baldwin is the only guy we see run inside routes at all, the flair and flat routes or even seam without a TE we just don't use, two reasons I think, Baldwin is the only guy that runs a crisp route and has the body type to do it, Moore is still learning how to run routes and Lockett would get ate up in there consistently. The other part is simply Pete and his fear of the turnover due to a tip or bad bounce, we never have used the inside route tree that much.

 

[DomeHawk]

Our strat wasn't bad our injuries limited it's execution, the Rams ran like hell on the Cowboys, they used the pass to spread the field and open up running lanes, our injuries killed us not the game plan as so many want to blame.

Our loss to the Steelers in the Super Bowl was lousy game planning as well using the reference everyone has been using for the Dallas loss, Etric Pruitt was not the blame now using hind sight, it was lousy game planning.

Wrong, and Coach Holmgren expressed as much on the radio this morning. To paraphrase, he said that the Cowboys defensive plan against the Seahawk's was to sell out for the run but for the Rams their plan was to stop the pass.

I guess we're lucky, every sportscaster, HOF players, and successful retired coaches have reiterated what everyone else, it seems, have said about the coaching, BUT we have you to set us all straight.

Funny.

They sold to stop the run we know that, we had injured lineman, we had a Baldwin that was nursing 3 injuries, we don't have route running skills in the other receivers that are suitable for the quick passing game or did you forget how Moore got torched for letting that interception happen, Lockett is a speed guy not a slot guy. You still have to pass block to pass the ball and they were blowing up the interior of our line and had a spy on Wilson.

I probably missed a few items but that's a start.

"You want to attack me fine, I will play."

Well, uh yeah, I have over 1000 posts now so it's a free play, lol.

The fact that we weren't throwing downfield just further motivated them to sell out for the run and even bring their CB's right up on the line because they also knew we were going to keep throwing those stupid bubble screens.

Their strategy was based on more than just X's and O's, it was based on psychology, the belief that Pete would be so stubborn that he was going to show his hand and stick with it no matter what. They couldn't have been more right. The way they were aligned left so many opportunities that it was painfully obvious, seam routes to TE's, the long balls that were successful, etc., it was all there for the taking.

As soon as we started throwing downfield they would have had to change that alignment and then we probably could have run successfully.

 

[chris98251]

Oh I didn't know you were the .Net Psychologist, pardon me, or did you use a Vulcan mind meld.


Enquiring minds want to know.

Or are you this version of a Psychic

 

[DomeHawk]

Oh I didn't know you were the .Net Psychologist, pardon me, or did you use a Vulcan mind meld.


Enquiring minds want to know.

Or are you this version of a Psychic

Not my psychology, the Cowboy's staff.

And yes, they played him for a fool.

Everyone could see it but you, apparently.

 

[chris98251]

Oh I didn't know you were the .Net Psychologist, pardon me, or did you use a Vulcan mind meld.


Enquiring minds want to know.

Or are you this version of a Psychic

Not my psychology, the Cowboy's staff.

And yes, they played him for a fool.

Everyone could see it but you, apparently.

When you in a horse race and your horse has three legs everyone can see it, but your in the race and you don't have a replacement you do the best you can, which is what we did.

I can see that, Browning should have won his big games as well if he would have stepped up to all the accolades you have been giving him as well, but hey he didn't.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

It pains me to say this, but I don't think we would have done any better against the Rams then the Cowboys did.

The absolutely punched the Cowboys in the mouth, on both sides of the ball..............so even if we won in Dallas, we would have limped into that buzzsaw with injuries all over the place, and lost handily IMO.