What are we going to do about Okung

[chris98251]

I don't expect a player that was hurt all the time in his 20s to become and iron man in his 30s.

Seattle moved on from Max Unger due to injury concerns. I see the same future for Okung.

Good viewpoint. The Seahawks will probably take everything into consideration and set a price for him. If he doesn't accept, next man up.

Anthony Davis could be available then

 

[Largent80]

We don't have to do anything about him. He is contracted for this year.

He had better hope he can play 16 games and play them well or HE is the one worrying about what we do with HIM.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

He's missed more games than every LT in Seahawks history combined.

Buh-Bye.

And that wouldn't be the case at all had some other player judo-flipped him and torn his pec. Without that, his injury situation fits much better under the label of "manageable".

 

[kearly]

I personally would bring him back at the expense of some others. However, KJ Wright, Russell, and Wagner got his money. I see about 0 chance that we're going to pay him the 8 million+ per year that he is going to get.

I'm curious to see what kind of money Okung gets. I think he might be closer to Carp money given Okung's lack of reputation and injury problems.

But I do agree, I don't think Seattle currently has Okung budgeted for another deal. Circumstances can change, but I think his time here is probably coming to an end.

 

[hawknation2015]

He's missed more games than every LT in Seahawks history combined.

Buh-Bye.

And that wouldn't be the case at all had some other player judo-flipped him and torn his pec. Without that, his injury situation fits much better under the label of "manageable".

It is also inaccurate to say Okung has missed more games than every other starting LT in Seahawks' history combined.

Walter Jones missed just 12 games in his career that spanned from 1997 until 2009. He was the definition of reliability and probably the greatest player to ever play the position.

Then starting LT Sean Locklear missed six games in 2009; Jones was unable to play at all during that season and officially retired before the 2010 season.

LT Ray Roberts missed two games in 1994.

LT Ron Mattes missed three games in 1987 (15-game season due to players' strike).

LT Ron Essink missed four games in 1985 and two games in 1982 (lockout shortened season).

LT Nick Bebout missed three games in 1979 and one game in 1977 (last NFL regular season with 14 games). Bebout was our first starting LT in the Seahawks' inaugural season in 1976. He was claimed from the Falcons in the veteran allocations draft for the expansion team. Bebout was known to be a very dependable pass protector in those days.

So that is a total of 33 regular season games missed by Seahawk starting LTs from 1976 until 2009.

No doubt, Okung has missed a large number of games: 21 from 2010-2014, which is more than half as many as every starting Seahawk LT for the first 33 years of the franchise's history.

However, for the sake of historical accuracy, it is not in fact more games missed than were previously missed by every former starting Seahawk LT. He would need to miss 13 more games in his career with the Seahawks to claim that title.

 

[bmorepunk]

I'm going to watch Okung play games for the Seahawks when he's on the field this season.

 

[Jazzhawk]

Anthony Davis could be available then

Nope.... AD just retired.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...h-member-san-francisco-49ers-retire-offseason

 

[chris98251]

Anthony Davis could be available then

Nope.... AD just retired.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/1...h-member-san-francisco-49ers-retire-offseason

For a year or two............................

 

[Hawks46]

If you had about $20mil to spend, who would you keep if each player cost aprox

$10M Okung
$9M Wagner
$8M Irvin
$5M Sweezy
$4M Turbin
$3M Kearse

No way Okung gets 10 million. He's too injury prone. I can see us offering him 6 mil/year. He probably gets more than that from another team. I can see us drafting a 1st round LT next year to replace him, maybe packing a pick or two to move up and get a quality player.

Irvin is in no way worth 8 mil/year. He can be a dynamic player, but he's not consistent enough yet. Plus, he's done plenty of bone headed things on and off the field. He's not technically a risk, but he's really not an all star character player either. He might get 5-6 million next year, but we won't even offer that I'm thinking. He's starting to lose even situational pass rushing utility for us if the Clark picks turns out, as we'll have Avril and Clark rotating pass rushing duties with Marsh and maybe some others stepping up.

I wouldn't pay Sweezy 5 million/year, but I can see why he'll get it. He's terrible in pass protection. Look at that Packer's fan's gif of Sweezy getting trucked horribly in the NFCCG. I've seen that quite often, although not to that extent. As good as Cable has been with rookies and UDFA's, I think that's a spot where the Hawks try to go value and save some money. It also depends on how well the LG turns out this year.

Kearse will be gone next year, or back on a min deal. I theorize Matthews, Norwood or Richardson takes his spot. Lockett will make Baldwin expendable soon as well.

We wouldn't have to pay Turbin 4 million to keep him, but of that list, he's one of the ones I'd prioritize.

Wagner is worth 9 mil and I'd pay it NOW.

So far I've saved us about 8 million of that supposed 20 million we had to play with.

 

[brimsalabim]

Depends on how reasonable he is willing to be. A new contract would need to contain provisions that would allow the team to be as to afford to develop and carry a capable starter ash is back up. Long shot at best.

 

[Cyrus12]

not gonna be enough money left regardless of what he does. he is gone after this one. wilson will get his 100 mill but the o line will be worth 500 k.

 

[QuahHawk]

Doesn't sound like Okung will come close to $10Mil. At this point I'd like to see him back on a 3 year 20 mil with only about 7 guaranteed. If he doesn't stay healthy we cut next year with minimal penalty if he does play well we are getting a solid deal.

 

[randomation]

8 mil a year subtract a mil every false start penalty he will owe the hawks money by the end of the season.

 

[King Dog]

I don't even want Okung anymore regardless of talent if someone like Penn is available that doesn't miss games.

 

[SomersetHawk]

I wonder if we re-sign him on the cheap a little later on. People will cite his self-representation as a factor for losing out on money but really it will be his health.

I hear he's making plenty of visits though so maybe not.

 

[WilsonMVP]

If you had about $20mil to spend, who would you keep if each player cost aprox

$10M Okung
$9M Wagner
$8M Irvin
$5M Sweezy
$4M Turbin
$3M Kearse

Wagner, Irvin and Kearse

 

[Ozzy]

Wagner, irvin and Okung.

 

[vin.couve12]

Call me crazy, but I think Gilliam is going to be the next Hawks LT. Former TEs who severely outgrow the position tend to do well. He's got good feet and great athleticism for the position along with the required length. He'll have 2 years with Cable and should be absolutely ready to take over that role in 2016.

Bailey wouldn't be your most conventional LT in that he's only 6'3, but when he's around 320 he has elite athleticism for the position as well and has pretty long arms. He's a good guy to kick out to LT when needed, but if he's trim and fit he can be really good at LG. I think the Hawks need to stop messing around with him on the right side, however. Like Carpenter, you can see that his kick drop is just really unnatural on the right side with his right foot back to the point where his base isn't as stable.

If push comes to shove and nothing seems to work out, they'll probably try Britt as his college position of LT.

Again, call me crazy, but I'm not all that worried about it. Pending we don't turn into a team that has a pass ratio of 55% or more anyway.

Old post back from the grave. I didn't remember where I heard Pete make a statement about Gilliam on the left side, but it was really quite some time ago. Pete addressed the OL yesterday and it's covered in the field gulls article.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2016/3/23/112 ... arcus-webb

My lone concern right now is Britt and pass pro. I read someone's post from today that said he may have had a shoulder or peck tear and that's why his pass pro was so bad. If that's the case then great, but I'd love to see Soko challenge him. Soko is a 4 sigma athlete and the only one in recorded SPARQ history. Guys like Megatron and JJ Watt are only 3 sigma athletes.

 

[vin.couve12]

So I was listening to Tom Cable's radio spot on Softy from yesterday, and he brought up this offseason being one of the few that he hasn't had some sort of surgery and is really feeling good. (Paraphrasing but essentially accurate. From: http://www.fieldgulls.com/2015/6/4/8732685/tom-cable-talks-jimmy-graham-scouting-offensive-linemen) More importantly, this is a contract year for Okung and the team has to decide whether to give him a second contract. Now, It's no secret that this board is all over the spectrum on Russell Okung. In any thread that he's mentioned, someone alludes to Okung:
1. being a top 5 LT when healthy
2. never being healthy
3. being a false start machine

Purely by the numbers, PFF rated Okung as the 9th best LT last year in terms of sacks, hits, and hurries or as they call it, pass blocking efficiency https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/02/12/sig-stats-pbe-offensive-tackles/ ranked 9th while reportedly playing with a partially torn labrum. Again, the health monster/ injury bug/ Calamity perpetrator (clap for short) rears it's ugly head. Let's be real, this guy if oft injured.

Year/ Games Missed:
2010/ 6
2011/ 4
2012/ 1
2013/ 8
2014/ 2
*No playoff games.

Or 23.8% of the possible games. Not to mention the game that he gets injured early, someone unprepared gets thrown in (McQ, Bailey, Bowie, etc. ) and Russ ends up taking a beating (Example: 2013 Week 2 whiner @ Sea).

Surprisingly, the false start thing isn't far from the truth:
Year/ False Start Penalties/ Holding Penalties
2010 / 3 (Low) / 1
2011 / 6 (Tied for 5th with 12 others)/ 2
2012 / 8 (Tied #1) / 5
2013 / 2 (Low Rank) / 5
2014/ 6 (Tied 2nd)/ 4
(from pro football reference)

In his pro bowl year, he was ranked #1 for false starts. I don't have the PFF stats (because I don't want to pay for them) but I recall him grading out quite well. So, in conclusion, we have an above average tackle who is penalized at an above average rate and misses an above average number of games.

As a team, we've had top 5 success in the rushing attack (including #1 last year) over the last few years. How much of that is Beast Mode, Russ magic, or line brutality is hard to measure in absolutes (except yards after contact and broken tackle, BEAST MODE). Okung's cap hit this year is $7.2 million and has averaged $8.02 million over the life of his contrac,t which puts him at about 11th highest paid LT. Honestly, I think this is about right for him. Not elite money, but solid starter money. I think his second contract is going to be 4 years and probably $9.5- $10 million a year. The question is are the Hawks paying or are we going to let him walk. Personally, I think we've had a lot of turnover in the past 2 years and we need to keep a few guys around to provide continuity. However, Russ has to get paid. Wagz needs to be paid. Something's got to give. What's does .net think?

Just wanted to point out, the two seasons where Okung was ranked low on False Start/Holding penalties, 2010 and 2013, were the seasons where he missed 6 games and 8 games respectively. Of course he would be ranked low in 2013 where he missed 8 games. Extrapolated to a full season, Okung would have had 4 False Starts and 10 Holding penalties in 2013.

My gut tells me that Okung will be allowed to leave in FA in 2016 and he will probably become a 4th round compensatory pick for the Hawks in 2017. I think Okung owes some of his success to his propensity for holding; a lineman who gets called that often most likely gets away with a lot of it. They have some hefty contracts with their core players, and the cap just won't allow them to keep expensive O-Line guys (especially ones who are injury-prone and penalty-inclined)...it seems that the O-Line is the most likely place that they are hoping to save cap space.

I think it will be a 3rd round compensation if that still holds, but it looks like you nailed it. Funny reading old stuff like this...