What Is It Going To Take For Russ To Win MVP?

[Mad Dog]

Simple: Be the best player on the best team.

So an early win streak where Russ is clearly our leader on offense leading to an eventual top seed in the conference.

He hasn't been able to break through because it's more than stats. It's stats and record. Getting 10-11 wins a year doesn't cut it unless you are head and shoulders above everyone else. Get 13-14 wins and you get in the conversation with the Mahomes/Watson/Jackson/Fresh shiny pennies of the NFL.

Wilson is a top 10 player in the league but to get that "top player" rank requires a better record.

 

[Heyseed]

Every time Russ is in the MVP race Seahawks will have a stinky game. It's like he has to throw the ball, fight for position, catch it, and then not fumble while running. We were at the Saints game and WRs were dropping balls in the end zone. Just missed opportunities. Russ can't do it alone

 

[Tical21]

'15 was statistically his best year, but Cam and Carson were out of their minds. Last year he was in the driver's seat, but only really had 2 good games in the second half of the season. He probably should have gotten a vote in each of those seasons. Besides that, he just doesn't have the volume to have a great shot at it. For him to get that volume, something will have to go terribly wrong.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Simple: Be the best player on the best team..

This.

MVP has as much to do about playing on a great team as it does individual stats. Throw in some good ol' media hype momentum, and voila, you've got the recipe for winning a MVP.

When's the last time a player's won the MVP on a 10-6 or even 11-5 record? Russ has to have a career year stats wise, and the Hawks have to be a 14-2 or 13-3 #1 seed type of SB challenging team.

 

[Spin Doctor]

Russell Wilson's problem is that after the Bucs game his performances started to look more pedestrian. He had a four game stretch where he threw 4 touchdowns and 4 interceptions. To add to this we had crushing defeats vs. the Rams, 49ers and Cardinals where Russ didn't look great, all near the end of the season.

I don't think that Russell Wilson is never going to get an MVP under Pete Carroll. Carroll's offensive system is the biggest thing holding Russell Wilson back.

 

[Rat]

When's the last time a player's won the MVP on a 10-6 or even 11-5 record? Russ has to have a career year stats wise, and the Hawks have to be a 14-2 or 13-3 #1 seed type of SB challenging team.

ADP in 2012 (the Vikings were 10-6), and even THAT required a rare 2000 yard rushing season, which was the highest single-season rushing total in 28 years, and just eight yards short of Dickerson’s all-time mark. He won 30.5 votes to 19.5 over Peyton Manning, who had led the Broncos to the 1 seed in the AFC.

The only other time this millennium where the MVP winner came from a team that even played on wild card weekend was 2003, where Peyton and Steve McNair split the award. They led their teams to identical 11-5 records, with the Colts as the three seed and the Titans as the five seed.

It is ridiculous that Russ hasn’t even Bobby Wagnered a single vote (he certainly would have if the NFL did ranked voting like they should), but unfortunately he has been unlucky that Cam and Lamar had insane, unprecedented statistical seasons on #1 seeded teams in Russ’ two most worthy seasons.

 

[John63]

In the end every MVP had a few bad games in their MVP campaign, but when you do what Jackson did, mind you not passing but passing and running on a 14-2 team you get the mvp.

What Wilson does year after year is despite the system. What Jackson, Mahomes etc is with the system. Meaning they have a system built for and around them. Wilson does not, and as long as PC is here he never will., barring not something going wrong, but PC waking up and realizing his best chance to get back to the SB on offense is letting WIlson run the show and creating a system built for and around him, nothign will change. The funny part is if not for WIlson more than likly PC would nto still be here as HC.

 

[AgentDib]

Can we give the Pete vs. Russ stuff a rest? Pete has done a lot to benefit Russ. Russ has done a lot to benefit Pete.

They both like each other, work well together and have both contributed to an enormously successful run of Seahawks football.

 

[TwistedHusky]

We've literally had games where Wilson had less than 50 yards at the half. One was only a few years ago.

The whole Pete holds Russ back argument stems from the fact that Pete holds Russ back. That is fact, not opinion.

There is no way an offense designed around the run, focusing on the run, emphasizing the run does not negatively impact QB production at least in production of yards in aggregate, and likely in scoring.

So in this offense, with this coach, it is incredible that Wilson was even mentioned in MVP conversations at all.

What has to happen for Wilson to win MVP is high scoring games. When our defense struggles, we put up yards and points - because Wilson is a capable enough QB to do this consistently if needed. He will be efficient in the RZ given the opportunity and he will throw for yards with accuracy when needed.

If we score frequently through the air and put up numbers for yardage without interceptions (which Wilson is good at not throwing), he will be in the mix.

We likely do not have to win out, even our division - but he needs to put up numbers...which means our defense needs to struggle. Because nothing screams 'MVP' like a QB carrying his team to wins, despite his defense not pulling its weight.

As pointed out by other posters, he would need 1-2 showcase wins on national TV against a well-regarded opponent. Ideally a shoot-out again another MVP QB candidate.

TLDR

A bad defense and 9+ wins. At least 1-2 showcase wins.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Can we give the Pete vs. Russ stuff a rest? Pete has done a lot to benefit Russ. Russ has done a lot to benefit Pete.

They both like each other, work well together and have both contributed to an enormously successful run of Seahawks football.

No, we shall continue to beat the false narrative drum that if Pete let's Russ cook by slinging it all over the yard, we shall do nothing but lay back and watch the Lombardi trophies pile up.

I mean, just look at the evidence. Here's the top 15 list of QB's last year by most attempts.

1. Jameis Winston
2. Jared Goff
3. Matt Ryan
4. Tom Brady
5. Carson Wentz
6. Dak Prescott
7. Philip Rivers
8. Aaron Rodgers
9. Kyler Murray
10. Baker Mayfield
11. Andy Dalton
12. Russell Wilson
13. Mitch Trubisky
14. Derek Carr
15. Ryan Fitzpatrick

Pretty much a who's who of Lombardi trophy collectors.

 

[John63]

We've literally had games where Wilson had less than 50 yards at the half. One was only a few years ago.

The whole Pete holds Russ back argument stems from the fact that Pete holds Russ back. That is fact, not opinion.

There is no way an offense designed around the run, focusing on the run, emphasizing the run does not negatively impact QB production at least in production of yards in aggregate, and likely in scoring.

So in this offense, with this coach, it is incredible that Wilson was even mentioned in MVP conversations at all.

What has to happen for Wilson to win MVP is high scoring games. When our defense struggles, we put up yards and points - because Wilson is a capable enough QB to do this consistently if needed. He will be efficient in the RZ given the opportunity and he will throw for yards with accuracy when needed.

If we score frequently through the air and put up numbers for yardage without interceptions (which Wilson is good at not throwing), he will be in the mix.

We likely do not have to win out, even our division - but he needs to put up numbers...which means our defense needs to struggle. Because nothing screams 'MVP' like a QB carrying his team to wins, despite his defense not pulling its weight.

As pointed out by other posters, he would need 1-2 showcase wins on national TV against a well-regarded opponent. Ideally a shoot-out again another MVP QB candidate.

TLDR

A bad defense and 9+ wins. At least 1-2 showcase wins.

I still dont think that does it, he has had that before and still not even a vote. To me it boils down to eveyroen knowing what PC wants and values and as long as he is hear WIlson will not get his due. I mean have you heard PC push for him to be MVP when asked about it? I have not. Heck they will not even dispell trade rumors. I can go on, Compared to other top QBs he is kind of direspected by the organization or taken for granted. I mean name me a top QB who has not had an offense built for and around them? Name me a top QB that has not had their organization try to build a pass blocking olien for them? I can go on and on. What it boils down to in my mind is a lack of respect or being taken for granted and if your own organization does that why should anyone vote for you. As far as PC and WIlson liking each other and getting along, well for one what would you expect them to say duh. 2 they can liek each other and even get laong that does not mean they see eye to eye on the field, which we know they dont.

So I think the way this orgnization verbally talks about Wilson with regards to things impacts things alot. I mean you cant help but wonder well PC up there in seattle wants to run and run and run so whats wrong with Wilson? Why if he is as good as some say does he not build it around him? I am sure it impacts how voters think.

 

[John63]

Can we give the Pete vs. Russ stuff a rest? Pete has done a lot to benefit Russ. Russ has done a lot to benefit Pete.

They both like each other, work well together and have both contributed to an enormously successful run of Seahawks football.

No, we shall continue to beat the false narrative drum that if Pete let's Russ cook by slinging it all over the yard, we shall do nothing but lay back and watch the Lombardi trophies pile up.

I mean, just look at the evidence. Here's the top 15 list of QB's last year by most attempts.

1. Jameis Winston
2. Jared Goff
3. Matt Ryan
4. Tom Brady
5. Carson Wentz
6. Dak Prescott
7. Philip Rivers
8. Aaron Rodgers
9. Kyler Murray
10. Baker Mayfield
11. Andy Dalton
12. Russell Wilson
13. Mitch Trubisky
14. Derek Carr
15. Ryan Fitzpatrick

Pretty much a who's who of Lombardi trophy collectors.

once again we are tno saying allwo him to throw it all over the place, that is the narrative some are using to say no. We are saying allow him to do it sooner and change the style of play. We fully expect a 50-50 ratio, all we are sayign is let snto wit till the 2nd half to use the style of play that allows us to do virtually anything we want. Lets stopo wasting a half of football, lets stop beign so predictable even fans who barely whatch no whats coming. Thats what we are sying. These are things that PC has admitted to doing. He has said we use the first half to feel the other team out, really you cant figure out most of what they will do from film. Really you need a whole half to under stand running up the gut does not work? Really you need a whole half of football waiting tilll the last 3 seconds to snap it allowing the desne to tee off before you decide to chaneg it? and so on. This is what we are saying, play a style of football adn suites your best player, We ran the ball just as much in the 2nd half as the first the difference was the style of play and msot fo th time we did what we wanted.

So let stop spreading the FALSE narative we want Wilson throwing the ball all over the place, that is not what we are saying. We are saying play the style that works best for you best player adn stop putting us behind the 8 ball in the firts half so much.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

So let stop spreading the FALSE narative we want Wilson throwing the ball all over the place, that is not what we are saying. We are saying play the style that works best for you best player adn stop putting us behind the 8 ball in the firts half so much.

Sure, as long as you and others stop spreading the false narrative that Russell doesn't throw the ball as much, or isn't as effective in the first half vs. 2nd half.

Here are Russell's split stats from last year by halves.

First Half
Attempts: 244
Completions: 162
Percentage: 66.4
Yards: 2,037
Average: 8.3
TD's: 16
Rating: 110.6

Second Half
Attempts: 252
Completions: 167
Percentage: 66.3
Yards: 1,926
Average: 7.6
TD's: 14
Rating: 104.4

There you go, five of the seven most important statistical categories Russell is better in first halves vs. second halves.

So it's not attempts? It's not what else now that you will continue to spread your factually incorrect and baseless "let Russ cook" narrative.

What SHOULD be popping out to you when you look at the numbers is the most important factor of all................balance. That's what wins, and that's what has created the kind of symmetry and relationship between Pete and Russ that's sending both of them to the Hall of Fame one day.

So let's hear it John, this is where you tell me now it's NOT the stats, it's playcalling...........or it's scheme, or any of the other nebulous vague things fans puke up that they know nothing about the intricasies of.

 

[Largent80]

I don't get the importance of Russ being MVP.
We all know that he's the Seahawks MVP almost every year. Let's enjoy what we have with him while we have it, and let's go win another trophy.

 

[John63]

So let stop spreading the FALSE narative we want Wilson throwing the ball all over the place, that is not what we are saying. We are saying play the style that works best for you best player adn stop putting us behind the 8 ball in the firts half so much.

Sure, as long as you and others stop spreading the false narrative that Russell doesn't throw the ball as much, or isn't as effective in the first half vs. 2nd half.

Here are Russell's split stats from last year by halves.

First Half
Attempts: 244
Completions: 162
Percentage: 66.4
Yards: 2,037
Average: 8.3
TD's: 16
Rating: 110.6

Second Half
Attempts: 252
Completions: 167
Percentage: 66.3
Yards: 1,926
Average: 7.6
TD's: 14
Rating: 104.4

There you go, five of the seven most important statistical categories Russell is better in first halves vs. second halves.

So it's not attempts? It's not what else now that you will continue to spread your factually incorrect and baseless "let Russ cook" narrative.

What SHOULD be popping out to you when you look at the numbers is the most important factor of all................balance. That's what wins, and that's what has created the kind of symmetry and relationship between Pete and Russ that's sending both of them to the Hall of Fame one day.

So let's hear it John, this is where you tell me now it's NOT the stats, it's playcalling...........or it's scheme, or any of the other nebulous vague things fans puke up that they know nothing about the intricasies of.

No this is were I say if you cant and refuse to beleive your own eyes than that is your problem. Anyone with a lick of football sense can see the difference in thee team and in the offense when they turn it on. Even the players are saying it, the experts are saying it. The only ones not syaing it are those who refuse to beleive their own eyes.

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2020/5/9...-offense-russell-wilson-pete-carroll-nfl-news

As to your symetry and all that true they have had a lot fof success and could have had more if not for PCs unwillignness to do what GOOD coaches do and mold you playing style to your best players. In yoru eyes we should be happy with what we have even though we could be better and in the end that is what this is about being better.

Now imagine all those stats you reference if Wilson was not having to take chances because we are behind because we played slow in the first half. Or how many fewer sacks, hits, nurries or tackled behind the line we would have if the defense did not know we were gogin to snap it with 3 seconds or less in the first half.

Just because you are good does not mean you cant be better. We could be better with a minor tweak in our offense play. oh and let me hlep you before you say it we have a higher TOP in the 2nd half when we typically run this style of offense.

guess what sseems the Seahawks agree with us

https://www.msn.com/en-us/Sports/nf...d-offense-i-know-i-know/ar-BB13QD3i?ocid=a2hs

 

[Uncle Si]

So.. the seahawks offense is, in fact, as good in the first half as they are in the 2nd, despite statements to the contrary?

 

[Sgt. Largent]

As to your symetry and all that true they have had a lot fof success and could have had more if not for PCs unwillignness to do what GOOD coaches do and mold you playing style to your best players. In yoru eyes we should be happy with what we have even though we could be better and in the end that is what this is about being better.

Now imagine all those stats you reference if Wilson was not having to take chances because we are behind because we played slow in the first half. Or how many fewer sacks, hits, nurries or tackled behind the line we would have if the defense did not know we were gogin to snap it with 3 seconds or less in the first half.

Just because you are good does not mean you cant be better. We could be better with a minor tweak in our offense play. oh and let me hlep you before you say it we have a higher TOP in the 2nd half when we typically run this style of offense.]

You're all over the road dude. This is VERBATIM what you said above, not even two posts ago.

to say no. We are saying allow him to do it sooner and change the style of play. We fully expect a 50-50 ratio, all we are sayign is let snto wit till the 2nd half to use the style of play that allows us to do virtually anything we want. Lets stopo wasting a half of football, lets stop beign so predictable even fans who barely whatch no whats coming. Thats what we are sying. These are things that PC has admitted to doing. He has said we use the first half to feel the other team out, really you cant figure out most of what they will do from film. Really you need a whole half to under stand running up the gut does not work? Really you need a whole half of football waiting tilll the last 3 seconds to snap it allowing the desne to tee off before you decide to chaneg it? and so on. This is what we are saying, play a style of football adn suites your best player, We ran the ball just as much in the 2nd half as the first the difference was the style of play and msot fo th time we did what we wanted.

- do it sooner
- don't wait until the 2nd half
- wasting a half of football
- being so predictable
- whole half of running to figure it out

All false, as my stats prove. Now you're on some Russell has to take chances because we're behind? That's Pete's offensive philosophy's fault?

Do you think maybe that has far more to do with the defense dropping from a top 5 defense to a top 20 over the past three years, giving up an average of almost 10 more points a game? Hmm, I wonder if that has a bigger implication or Russell having to play from behind more in 2nd halves of games.

Enough already, I've proven this false Let Russ Cook narrative wrong over and over. Yet here we are, once again.

 

[John63]

So.. the seahawks offense is, in fact, as good in the first half as they are in the 2nd, despite statements to the contrary?

not exactly . we have more 3 and outs in the first half then the 2nd and our TOP is higher in the 2nd half as well.

 

[John63]

As to your symetry and all that true they have had a lot fof success and could have had more if not for PCs unwillignness to do what GOOD coaches do and mold you playing style to your best players. In yoru eyes we should be happy with what we have even though we could be better and in the end that is what this is about being better.

Now imagine all those stats you reference if Wilson was not having to take chances because we are behind because we played slow in the first half. Or how many fewer sacks, hits, nurries or tackled behind the line we would have if the defense did not know we were gogin to snap it with 3 seconds or less in the first half.

Just because you are good does not mean you cant be better. We could be better with a minor tweak in our offense play. oh and let me hlep you before you say it we have a higher TOP in the 2nd half when we typically run this style of offense.]

You're all over the road dude. This is VERBATIM what you said above, not even two posts ago.

to say no. We are saying allow him to do it sooner and change the style of play. We fully expect a 50-50 ratio, all we are sayign is let snto wit till the 2nd half to use the style of play that allows us to do virtually anything we want. Lets stopo wasting a half of football, lets stop beign so predictable even fans who barely whatch no whats coming. Thats what we are sying. These are things that PC has admitted to doing. He has said we use the first half to feel the other team out, really you cant figure out most of what they will do from film. Really you need a whole half to under stand running up the gut does not work? Really you need a whole half of football waiting tilll the last 3 seconds to snap it allowing the desne to tee off before you decide to chaneg it? and so on. This is what we are saying, play a style of football adn suites your best player, We ran the ball just as much in the 2nd half as the first the difference was the style of play and msot fo th time we did what we wanted.

- do it sooner
- don't wait until the 2nd half
- wasting a half of football
- being so predictable
- whole half of running to figure it out

All false, as my stats prove. Now you're on some Russell has to take chances because we're behind? That's Pete's offensive philosophy's fault?

Do you think maybe that has far more to do with the defense dropping from a top 5 defense to a top 20 over the past three years, giving up an average of almost 10 more points a game? Hmm, I wonder if that has a bigger implication or Russell having to play from behind more in 2nd halves of games.

Enough already, I've proven this false Let Russ Cook narrative wrong over and over. Yet here we are, once again.

all true if you open your eyes which you will not obviously. Funny how the players sdee it but you dont ahh. FYI you have proven nothing except you think you know more than the players, which you dont. also

https://www.fieldgulls.com/2020/1/1...l-slow-postseason-first-halves-nfl-statistics

Seattle has played almost a full regular season’s worth of postseason football under Wilson, so I’m comfortable with this sample size. Through the first halves of 15 playoff games, the Seahawks have “accomplished” the following:

Trailed at halftime nine times;
Trailed by at least two possessions at some point seven times;
Been shutout four times;
Scored three combined points in two NFC Championship home games;
Failed to score a touchdown seven times;
Failed to score more than one touchdown 12 times;
Failed to clear 10 points ten times.


And thats playoffs. 1st half margin -53 2nd half 119 enough said.


The fact Wilson leads the leauge since 2012 in 4th qtr/OT come from behind victories proves the point and yes even when we had a great defense. Now that we dont you would hope you would want to get a lead and give the defense some wiggle room instead of such aa small margin for error. Now that I have proven my point

https://www.vsin.com/seahawks-need-better-first-half-in-second-half-of-season/

again. enough said