What role did PH want?

[Sgt. Largent]

Anytime a player says "I'm not happy with my role" it translates to "I want the ball more."

This is especially true of WR's (just ask Keyshawn Johnson), they have the biggest ego's of any position. So yeah, Percy was probably not happy with not only his conservative snap limit Pete was putting on him, but having half those snaps be decoy snaps to open up space for other players.

But all this was explained to him when he signed here. If Pete and John are anything, they're totally upfront with players and what they want out of everyone.

 

[DavidSeven]

The "role" thing seems like smoke and mirrors to me. Based on what's been said, Harvin has a mercurial personality that probably didn't jive with Wilson's strict professionalism or Baldwin's willingness to call people out. In a different setting, with different personalities and a more lax culture (in terms of effort, accountability), it might've worked better with the exact same plays, exact same scheme. These issues started before Harvin even got ramped up in this offense and nearly came to head during pre-season. There wasn't even time for him to want the ball more. The "I wanted the ball more" thing is an excuse -- a bad one, but one that makes Harvin look better than the alternative explanations for this trade (that he wasn't a great teammate, that he was a threat to undermine the team's QB, that his effort level was in question, etc.).

 

[Bryce84]

From my perspective, I understand Percy being frustrated with his role here. I feel like after the playoff game against the Saints that he got knocked out of, the coaching staff made a conscious decision to not use him down the field and only give him the ball on plays that he can defend himself more easily (someone made an excellent post about this a bit after that game, I can't remember who), those being screens and handoffs, to try and preserve him for the long haul. When I look back at the (albeit small) sample size we have of Harvin usage, exclusively using him on screens and handoffs wasn't a thing until the Super Bowl, which has led me to this realization.

Obviously that doesn't justify all these rumors that have been spreading like wildfire about the guy as a teammate and person. I do feel people are being too harsh on him for things that likely go on in a LOT of locker rooms that we just never hear about, like fighting with teammates. It's hard to believe that people can be so naive to think in a highly physical sport with incredibly competitive individuals that players fighting with teammates never happens anywhere else and is such a scandalous event. As Doug Baldwin said, you're around these people for 12-14 hours a day, there is going to be friction at some point.

Back on point though, most fans had become beyond frustrated seeing Percy used the way he was being deployed this year, so you can only imagine how frustrated he must have been, being held down by the ultra-conservative approach of the coaching staff to these gimmick plays and decoy roles. Him in that role just didn't mesh with our offense, which is extremely discouraging that they felt they couldn't make it work, but since they seemed dead set on keeping him in that role, I am glad they traded him away, as disappointing as it is to lose such a lethal offensive weapon.

A side note, I've seen all these comments about Percy's route running ability (or lack thereof) and I don't really buy that as an excuse for his role here. He did fine down the field in MIN, maybe he isn't a perfect route runner but you can't convince me he is completely inadequate to the point we don't use him down the field AT ALL.

 

[Scottemojo]

From my perspective, I understand Percy being frustrated with his role here. I feel like after the playoff game against the Saints that he got knocked out of, the coaching staff made a conscious decision to not use him down the field and only give him the ball on plays that he can defend himself more easily (someone made an excellent post about this a bit after that game, I can't remember who), those being screens and handoffs, to try and preserve him for the long haul. When I look back at the (albeit small) sample size we have of Harvin usage, exclusively using him on screens and handoffs wasn't a thing until the Super Bowl, which has led me to this realization.

Obviously that doesn't justify all these rumors that have been spreading like wildfire about the guy as a teammate and person. I do feel people are being too harsh on him for things that likely go on in a LOT of locker rooms that we just never hear about, like fighting with teammates. It's hard to believe that people can be so naive to think in a highly physical sport with incredibly competitive individuals that players fighting with teammates never happens anywhere else and is such a scandalous event. As Doug Baldwin said, you're around these people for 12-14 hours a day, there is going to be friction at some point.

Back on point though, most fans had become beyond frustrated seeing Percy used the way he was being deployed this year, so you can only imagine how frustrated he must have been, being held down by the ultra-conservative approach of the coaching staff to these gimmick plays and decoy roles. Him in that role just didn't mesh with our offense, which is extremely discouraging that they felt they couldn't make it work, but since they seemed dead set on keeping him in that role, I am glad they traded him away, as disappointing as it is to lose such a lethal offensive weapon.

A side note, I've seen all these comments about Percy's route running ability (or lack thereof) and I don't really buy that as an excuse for his role here. He did fine down the field in MIN, maybe he isn't a perfect route runner but you can't convince me he is completely inadequate to the point we don't use him down the field AT ALL.

Of course he ran deep routes. Watch the SB. Watch the Washington game. Called back, but deep.

However, you bring up New Orleans. He was open down the field, but Russ could not get him the ball accurately deep. Even in Minny, it was a recurring problem. If it isn't a post, fly, or shallow cross, he kind of runs his own way.

It took Golden time to stop doing that. Having a great sidestep makes guys like Harvin and GOlden elusive, but it doesn't help them run routes. Watching Baldwin, you almost get the idea he counts his steps to each and every move and break. Harvin? He is just trying to run away from everyone. Did you ever see him run a crisp deep out? A zone beating hook or curl?

 

[pehawk]

Great thread

 

[Bryce84]

Of course he ran deep routes. Watch the SB. Watch the Washington game. Called back, but deep.

However, you bring up New Orleans. He was open down the field, but Russ could not get him the ball accurately deep. Even in Minny, it was a recurring problem. If it isn't a post, fly, or shallow cross, he kind of runs his own way.

It took Golden time to stop doing that. Having a great sidestep makes guys like Harvin and GOlden elusive, but it doesn't help them run routes. Watching Baldwin, you almost get the idea he counts his steps to each and every move and break. Harvin? He is just trying to run away from everyone. Did you ever see him run a crisp deep out? A zone beating hook or curl?

I can't say I analyze the game extensively or remember the specifics of his routes that I saw in his MIN days, but I do know he was effective as a down the field option, a far cry from how Pete and Bevell opted to use him here (post-New Orleans playoff game). Either way, the point of my post had extremely little to do with his route running capability.

 

[Scottemojo]

Of course he ran deep routes. Watch the SB. Watch the Washington game. Called back, but deep.

However, you bring up New Orleans. He was open down the field, but Russ could not get him the ball accurately deep. Even in Minny, it was a recurring problem. If it isn't a post, fly, or shallow cross, he kind of runs his own way.

It took Golden time to stop doing that. Having a great sidestep makes guys like Harvin and GOlden elusive, but it doesn't help them run routes. Watching Baldwin, you almost get the idea he counts his steps to each and every move and break. Harvin? He is just trying to run away from everyone. Did you ever see him run a crisp deep out? A zone beating hook or curl?

I can't say I analyze the game extensively or remember the specifics of his routes that I saw in his MIN days, but I do know he was effective as a down the field option, a far cry from how Pete and Bevell opted to use him here (post-New Orleans playoff game). Either way, the point of my post had extremely little to do with his route running capability.

Pete and Bevell have a very narrow deep passing philosophy. They would rather punt than gamble.

However, with Percy, it seems to be a different issue. His lack of route running skill, like you say, is not the issue. Percy does not want to be a decoy. It appears he is vociferous about that. To the extreme. If he is punching his WR "teammates", how does he feel about being opening the field up for them on a play where he won't get a target? He doesn't give a shit about his mates off the field, why would he on the field? Percy has an over developed sense of justice, but it is highly personal in application. Last year doesn't count, he couldn't practice, but in 2014 he didn't even give it a full 6 games before he quit on his team because he didn't like how he was being used. Bevell said after the Dallas game that they had to get Percy a certain number of touches. Have you ever heard that about another Seattle WR?

Unique skills is what got him his job in Seattle. The double edge of the unique skills is that Pete does not like to put his players in position to fail. In Percy's case, the heart of the disagreement is that they wanted to use his speed to open the offense up, and he wanted to use it to be the center of the offense.

 

[chet380]

From my perspective, I understand Percy being frustrated with his role here. I feel like after the playoff game against the Saints that he got knocked out of, the coaching staff made a conscious decision to not use him down the field and only give him the ball on plays that he can defend himself more easily (someone made an excellent post about this a bit after that game, I can't remember who), those being screens and handoffs, to try and preserve him for the long haul. When I look back at the (albeit small) sample size we have of Harvin usage, exclusively using him on screens and handoffs wasn't a thing until the Super Bowl, which has led me to this realization.

Obviously that doesn't justify all these rumors that have been spreading like wildfire about the guy as a teammate and person. I do feel people are being too harsh on him for things that likely go on in a LOT of locker rooms that we just never hear about, like fighting with teammates. It's hard to believe that people can be so naive to think in a highly physical sport with incredibly competitive individuals that players fighting with teammates never happens anywhere else and is such a scandalous event. As Doug Baldwin said, you're around these people for 12-14 hours a day, there is going to be friction at some point.

Back on point though, most fans had become beyond frustrated seeing Percy used the way he was being deployed this year, so you can only imagine how frustrated he must have been, being held down by the ultra-conservative approach of the coaching staff to these gimmick plays and decoy roles. Him in that role just didn't mesh with our offense, which is extremely discouraging that they felt they couldn't make it work, but since they seemed dead set on keeping him in that role, I am glad they traded him away, as disappointing as it is to lose such a lethal offensive weapon.

A side note, I've seen all these comments about Percy's route running ability (or lack thereof) and I don't really buy that as an excuse for his role here. He did fine down the field in MIN, maybe he isn't a perfect route runner but you can't convince me he is completely inadequate to the point we don't use him down the field AT ALL.

Good post, Bryce -- a voice of reason in contrast to the avalanche of irrational raving -- " ...Harvin is a PSYCHOTIC", etc.

There appears to be an absolute refusal to accept Harvin's statements to the NYC media as being possibly truthful -- for my part, until Bevell says otherwise, Harvin's statements stand.

As you observed. it is a disappointment that such a lethal talent has been lost.

 

[Psychobabbler]

Normally, I'll let my articles speak my mind, but the article for the Cowboys' game was edited a bit by .com, as I wrote it this past Saturday afternoon, long after the Cowboys game, and after the trade came down on Friday. I knew I had to walk a fine line in what I said in that article, as it is published on the official web site. Even then, they did a great job of editing out the relatively innocuous things I wrote about the trade and yet let the main point of my writing shine through. Which was...

For whatever reason, the offense this season strayed from what we had become accustomed to over the past few years. Whether that was due to PH simply being in the lineup, I'll never know. I don't have any insider access and only know what other fans know. All I know is that the offense drifted from what actually got us to the Super Bowl last year.

And gee, Mr. Spicoli, what happened this past weekend? Well, aside from the shell-shocked lame first half, which I kind of expected given the severity of the deal that went down, the 2nd half resembled VERY MUCH what we've grown accustomed to the past couple of years...80+ yard drives that chewed up clock and kept the defense fresh.

I really don't care what role PH wanted. I want my MTV -er- SMASHMOUTH football that has proven very successful over the past two seasons. Bring it back! Whether PH wanted more downfield action or not, Bevell wasn't calling it for whatever reason.

As soon as PH was gone (well, aside from a sleepwalking first half, typical of 10 a.m. starts for this team anyway), the offense returned to what we all know and love here.

I was ALL FOR getting Percy in here when the deal was being discussed. Disappointed with his injury, ecstatic with his performance in the Super Bowl. Was looking forward to what the offense could accomplish this season with PH as the super-duper X factor, and even went so far as to boast of the things to come in my videos/articles. But it was obvious to me (and probably most of you) that the offense took a severely wrong turn somewhere between then and now. For whatever reason. Plenty of blame to go around, I'm sure, and since I'm not privy, I won't point fingers. I was NOT happy at all with Bevell's play calling.

I want to see our offense continue with what had been successful over the past two seasons. And aside from a couple of plays in the Super Bowl, PH wasn't part of it.

Later, dude!

 

[mikeak]

Good thread

What will be interesting will be the media reactions if PH has great games in New York.
I think the rational Hawk fans sees a costly trade that ended for the better of the team. The general football fans and experts will slam the Seahawks organization and PC if PH performs great AND the Seahawks don't get better.

The best thing that comes with a Super Bowl win is stability. PC and JS won't be under much scrutiny from the inside - quite a bit of capital.

Now hopefully we go undefeated for the rest of the year and the Hets continue to frefall

 

[ZorntoLargent]

Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in practice once. Could you imagine if the Bulls traded Jordan for doing that?

 

[DavidSeven]

Michael Jordan punched Steve Kerr in practice once. Could you imagine if the Bulls traded Jordan for doing that?

Percy Harvin isn't Michael Jordan. Not close. The better analogy would be if Dennis Rodman punched Scottie Pippen, pulled himself out during the 4th quarter, and then tried to turn the locker-room against Jordan.

He'd be gone in a week.

 

[gargantual]

I haven't seen this link posted by anyone, but it's pretty hilarious:

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-r ... -the-jets/