Who do we keep Lockette or Bates?

[Pandion Haliaetus]

My guess:

WR1 Doug Baldwin
WR2 Percy Harvin (RB5)
WR3 Jermaine Kearse
WR4 Paul Richardson
WR5 Bryan Walters

TE1 Zach Miller (FB4)
TE2 Luke Willson (WR6/FB2)
TE3 Cooper Helfet (WR7/FB3)

PS: Phil Bates, Kevin Smith
I.R.: Kevin Norwood

Why Walters? He's the most versatile, polished, and experienced WR of him, Lockette, and Bates. And as long as he continues to show solid value as a Returner he has more value than Lockette as a Gunner.

 

[Tokadub]

I'm kinda in super fast typing drunken rant mode right now so I'll add some more to this discussion.

Lockette is not the only under utilized receiver on our team.

Everything we saw from Lockette as a receiver last year would suggest he kicks major ass. Especially when pairing him up on a play with Harvin like in the Super Bowl when Harvin tore it up straight down field into the end zone on the right side and Lockette cut up from the left and into center field and caught a beautiful catch. That was one of the best offensive plays I saw from us all season schematically, and it was Lockette who got the chance to shine. I think he has a lot more potential than he is allowed to display on our offense.

BUT... the same thing could be said for our Tight Ends. We BARELY EVER USE THEM. Luke Willson especially seems like a super intriguing weapon offensively and we use him once in a blue moon.

Zach Miller seems to be on another level strategically or he has great "chemistry" with Wilson, that dude always seems to be open and he gets way more touchdowns than he should given how fricken slow he is.

So my conclusion from analysis that we underutilized so many of our talented players on offense:

It is entirely possible that Walters is like the Zach Miller of Wide Recievers. He is smart, knows how to get open, has good chemistry with any QB, etc.

It's very feasible that Walters is much better than he seems and could get that #6 WR spot on our team if he has those intangibles or lack of chances to prove himself such as Lockette, and both our Tight Ends.

Still though I just haven't seen much from Walters to prove how good he is, that doesn't mean he isn't... Our team has a tendency to give offensive players no opportunity to shine...

I wouldn't be surprised if Tate has ridiculously good numbers in Detroit not because he's better than our guys, but because other teams will push good players to their limits where our team tries to make all our offensive players other than RW, Harvin, and Lynch seem expendable by design.

 

[Tokadub]

Oh and I should add another player we don't seem to give a chance to shine... Chris Matthews. Dude is 6'5'' and was rookie of the year for the CFL.

Do I think Chris Matthews is in our top 6 receivers from what I've seen? NO

But what I have seen from him he's made his catches and has beaten I believe Earl Thomas (or maybe Richard Sherman... or maybe both of them?) 1 on 1 in little drills shown from our training camp video streams.

It's just kinda frustrating when as a fan you never get to determine how good certain guys really are.

I would list all these guys as impossible to evaluate from a fan's perspective due to not enough playing time:

- Lockette
- Bates
- Walters
- Willson
- Chris Matthews
- Christine Michael


We can all just assume they are not ready or worthy of more snaps or more plays in real games or even pre-season. But all of those guys seem intriguing to me and we'll all just have to assume our coaches know best or don't really care to figure these guys out yet.

 

[onanygivensunday]

I would list all these guys as impossible to evaluate from a fan's perspective due to not enough playing time:

- Lockette
- Bates
- Walters
- Willson
- Chris Matthews
- Christine Michael


We can all just assume they are not ready or worthy of more snaps or more plays in real games or even pre-season. But all of those guys seem intriguing to me and we'll all just have to assume our coaches know best or don't really care to figure these guys out yet.

I underlined the basis of your post.

I believe that the coaches know... and these guys will be given their opportunities in these last two preseason games.

I'd also be watching to see who the best blockers are as well.

 

[seahawk12thman]

this poll is invalid, argument unnecessary, we will keep both

No way we can keep both unless you want to cut kearse?

 

[mikeak]

The bottom of the depth chart has to be about developmental potential. At 28, Lockette has shown all the receiver he's ever going to be. Bates may never be any better than Lockette is at today. But he doesn't have far to go to be just as effective, has a lot more time to prove he can be more.

+1

 

[Largent80]

My guess:

WR1 Doug Baldwin
WR2 Percy Harvin (RB5)
WR3 Jermaine Kearse
WR4 Paul Richardson
WR5 Bryan Walters

TE1 Zach Miller (FB4)
TE2 Luke Willson (WR6/FB2)
TE3 Cooper Helfet (WR7/FB3)

PS: Phil Bates, Kevin Smith
I.R.: Kevin Norwood

IRing Norwood makes the most sense at this point of the pre-season. If Walters continues his return duties like he did vs. SD, he would be the guy and it would hopefully keep Earl from returns (I don't want him doing it).

 

[Skansi82]

It's a tough call, and you can make the case for several different scenarios. That being said, I went to the game Friday and Bates definitely passes the eyeball test. The dude looks like a faster/more ripped version of Anquan Boldin, and I have a tough time believing that he couldn't be solid special teams player. Obviously it's about more than physical attributes, but considering he's played 3 different positions (QB, RB, WR) I like his versatility and upside.

 

[bbsplitter]

Does anyone know if Bates is on a special teams unit right now? If he is, any review of his play on said units? I don't think we should over-estimate Lockette's special team prowess simply because he plays the most "flashy" position as a gunner. Sometimes I think blocking on a kick/punt return can be more difficult than simply running as fast as you can to decapitate a returner, and most of the time completely miss and overrun your pursuit angle, a downside to lockette I don't think many notice.

 

[Perfundle]

Does anyone know if Bates is on a special teams unit right now? If he is, any review of his play on said units? I don't think we should over-estimate Lockette's special team prowess simply because he plays the most "flashy" position as a gunner. Sometimes I think blocking on a kick/punt return can be more difficult than simply running as fast as you can to decapitate a returner, and most of the time completely miss and overrun your pursuit angle, a downside to lockette I don't think many notice.

And I'm going to guess that he's worse than Lane at clearing the two players assigned to stop him. That's a much more important skill than pure speed. Lane's much slower than Lockette yet he's a significantly better gunner.

 

[MysterMatt]

IRing Norwood makes the most sense at this point of the pre-season. If Walters continues his return duties like he did vs. SD, he would be the guy and it would hopefully keep Earl from returns (I don't want him doing it).

Exactly!

I'm concerned with our red zone offense not having enough big receivers, so Bates is extremely attractive to me. That said, Walters has shown he can play some WR in addition to being a fine PR.

 

[QuahHawk]

Walters due to return capabilities

 

[bbsplitter]

Walters due to return capabilities

Walters is injured and will sit out this game, that on top of Pete recently saying Earl still has the return duties, makes his departure more likely.

 

[Seafan]

Walters.

 

[Tokadub]

This whole 6th receiver decision as well as choosing our primary punt returner can only be described as "whack" (how kid's talk these days).

It makes me uncomfortable since I think that Norwood should be on the roster. I feel we should keep Norwood on the team even if he isn't 100% by week 1, I think he's hands down a top 4-5 receiver on this team when healthy... maybe even #3 behind Harvin and Baldwin.

So now I'm worried we are gonna let some guy who doesn't really deserve to be there take his spot like Walters. WALTERS HAS 27 RECEIVING YARDS IN HIS 2 YEAR CAREER!?

http://www.nfl.com/player/bryanwalters/2528181/careerstats

Technically Walters has had a 3 year career... he's been playing since 2011 but apparently wasn't good enough to make a team in 2012...

Seriously??? Why do so many people seem to love this guy, everything I see of him screams "Below Mediocre! Please do not let him take some one else's spot!!!"

Walters is 6'0'' and 26 years old, if he was really any good he would have more than 27 receiving yards in 3 years...


AND our whole punt return situation is terrible, let's be honest punt returns is the ONLY REASON why we would even consider a scrub like Walters. And that's just sad because he's not even close to as good as Golden Tate, Walters has mediocre hands and has no evasive moves whatsoever.

I think Earl Thomas would be much better as a punt returner athletically, but he's just too dang valuable... our whole defense revolves around him. And while I feel Thomas is pretty dang durable similar to Tate, I still think we should find another guy for the job, Thomas should be allowed to be 100% focused on defense, thinking about punt returns is unnecessary for the guy OUR ENTIRE DEFENSE REVOLVES AROUND.

The fact that Walters got so many more punt returns than Thomas seems too indicate that Earl Thomas is a last resort, in other words we should be able to find someone who is as good or nearly as good as Thomas that should have this job.

Right now I'm thinking Baldwin might be the best candidate, I don't wanna waste a roster spot on Walters just for his mediocre punt returns. Walters will have a fumble guaranteed, he's too slow and lacks evasiveness.

We should allow Norwood to make the team even if he isn't 100% week 1, otherwise he'll have to wait like half the season to play if we IR him according to what I heard (I'm not an expert of IR at all...)

Baldwin was interviewed the other day and asked about the punt return situation and he didn't even mention Walters... not one thing to say about him. That just shows Walters is a joke out there, Baldwin is not one to dismiss some guy if they are worthy, he gave props to Tate even who was his "rival" last year for #1 receiver.

 

[seatownlowdown]

this poll is invalid, argument unnecessary, we will keep both

No way we can keep both unless you want to cut kearse?

nope. i would keep 6- im not betting on it necessarily, since pete/schneider seem to love pryor as 3rd qb (or atleast make it seem that way for trade opportunities)

but my 6 wr would be

percy
adb
kearse
p-rich
bates
lockette*

*basically i think lockette makes the team due to his st coverage abilties, not as much for reciever. our return coverage was historically great last year, and pete loved it.

i think norwood will get "injured" again and go to ir

... and since this is becoming a "WHO RETURNS PUNTS??" thread, i would love to see what christine michael could do back there... :3:

 

[seatownlowdown]

... and since this is becoming a "WHO RETURNS PUNTS??" thread, i would love to see what christine michael could do back there... :3:

if we want to get the ball into michaels hands, honestly punt returning is a perfect way this year. maybe he beats out turbin as rb #2, but then he still has skittles in front of him

from todays seattletimes-

— Carroll also said that Christine Michael “is the most improved player on our team. He’s come a long ways in so many ways. He just needs to keep playing and showing and competing and showing that he’s growing as a football player.”

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/seaha...-who-could-play-friday-walters-to-sit-it-out/

 

[Perfundle]

*basically i think lockette makes the team due to his st coverage abilties, not as much for reciever. our return coverage was historically great last year, and pete loved it.

Lockette contributed nearly nothing to Seattle's return coverage in the regular season.

 

[seatownlowdown]

*basically i think lockette makes the team due to his st coverage abilties, not as much for reciever. our return coverage was historically great last year, and pete loved it.

Lockette contributed nearly nothing to Seattle's return coverage in the regular season.

true because he didnt play much last regular season... as he was resigned oct 22nd and then was money in the playoffs. nearly decapitated a couple people when he got a chance. his speed and relentlessness on coverage teams really stood out at the end of last year

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2014/08/1 ... cardo.html
http://seattletimes.com/html/seahawks/2 ... 30xml.html

 

[dontbelikethat]

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