Why Russell is a winner/leader and Cam Newton is not

[hawksfansinceday1]

Will you please respond to these facts: Seattle has beaten your team 3 in a row, beat your team in the NFCCG in '06 and has won a Super Bowl while Carolina has not.

Thank you in advance.

Wouldn't responding to "your team sucks" be more appropriate for the Shack? Cam wasn't on the Panthers in 06, IIRC.
I understood this to be a thread contrasting the leadership abilities of Russell Wilson and Cam Newton.

Maybe the Panther fan's RW wife comment was a better fit for the Shack, but at the same time, it also shows that Russell has had challenges in his personal life to work through and keep his focus as a leader for the Seahawks. So it actually does relate to leadership, the thread topic, in a warped sort of way.

Plus, it is game-day, only a couple hours removed from an emotional loss for Panther fans, so Panther fans might say emotional and provocative things on a Seahawks forum. Oh, I forgot, we Seahawks fans are 100% calm and class after a bitter, hard fought loss for our team.

I rarely go there, but sometimes you gotta troll a troll.

 

[ctrcat]

On the flip-pass - if his RB / outlet moves with the play it is a completion and everyone goes - wow Cam is amazing
...

Interesting point... to me, it just looked like a bad decision for a QB who is going down, and at high risk to be an inaccurate toss... Panther fans, do you think that one is on Cam or on the RB? I say it's on Cam, but I never considered the RB angle. Even then, there's still an intangible aspect of how a QB can influence the players around him, get them almost "reading his mind", that we've seen with some of the great ones. (Some of the plays I've seen from Aaron Rogers & co. come to mind first, but there several other QBs that have this gift)

I agree with that. Poor play but he's still learning. People forget he only played one year of big time college football too and didn't sit behind Brett Favre for three years like the aforementioned Rodgers.

The fact is I didn't even want Cam at #1, so credit to former GM Marty Hurney for he and Kuechly if nothing else. After 3+ years knowing what I know I'm sincerely happy Luck stayed at Stanford. It's JMO but my honest opinion.

 

[ImTheScientist]

Kiss the ring...Cam is a beyoch.

 

[NFSeahawks]

Cam's WRs do not bang his wife.

Boy that Avatar is scarrrrrrry. Wish you had Wilson, don't you? Ha ha ha ha

No, but I would kill to have your offensive line.

I honestly could not read this as a serious statement, YOU WERE JOKING, right?

LMFAO...

Seattle would have beaten Carolina by 20 with an average O line.

 

[bmorepunk]

I'm entertained beyond expectations at the conversation devolving into fans of two teams arguing who has the worse offensive line. I don't think this speaks well of either team's situation.

 

[ctrcat]

I'm entertained beyond expectations at the conversation devolving into fans of two teams arguing who has the worse offensive line. I don't think this speaks well of either team's situation.

When Gross retired, I personally wanted the Panthers to get OL help over franchising Hardy (10% of the current cap). Now they have neither.

 

[razgriz737]

Cam's WRs do not bang his wife.

Is this where I finally get to give the "0 Rings" treatment to a visiting fan?

I always told myself I would never do that after we won the Super Bowl, but sweet tapdancin' Jesus it's tempting.

 

[MidwestHawker]

Cam's a great player who I'd gladly take over lots of players, though thankfully Wilson is not one of them.

 

[olyfan63]

I'm entertained beyond expectations at the conversation devolving into fans of two teams arguing who has the worse offensive line. I don't think this speaks well of either team's situation.

Yeah, it's pretty funny, and even more so because each set of fans mostly only know how bad their OWN Offensive Lines suck, and don't realize how bad the other team's O-Line sucks.

I actually do think Seattle has an edge in O-Line over Carolina due to respective injury situations, but I sure couldn't tell it in the 1st half. In the second half, Seattle got pressure on Cam, so I figure the Seattle defensive coaches and players saw things they could exploit and then made the adjustments.

We probably won't know until next week, if the old (non) pass rush is back; did we only get more pressure on the QB because we were playing a decimated offensive line, or did our pass rush actually improve?

 

[endzorn]

More infuriating smile after a bad play...Shaun Alexander or Cam Newton?

 

[MizzouHawkGal]

I didn't see it that way but that's just me.

Now imo I think Wilson and Peyton are probably the two biggest leaders in the NFL. However, I saw nothing from Cam today that made him look deflated or uninterested. He's a gamer as well and Carolina is lucky to have him too.

Agreed. If Wilson wasn't here I'd want Cam.The boy is learning unlike Keapernick he will be Wilson's nightmare without factoring in Andrew Luck. Fun times are here guys so enjoy. We have that next generation elite quarterback and will be relevant as long as he is here. It's totally whack but it's the truth.

 

[olyfan63]

...
People forget he (Cam) only played one year of big time college football too and didn't sit behind Brett Favre for three years like the aforementioned Rodgers.

I did not know that. So in some ways, Cam is actually less experienced than Wilson, when college is taken into account. Lots of maturation upside still.

 

[chris98251]

Jeez we now have the we have one you don't comments surfacing, Panthers have done a phenomenal job as a franchise based on their inception till now. Played a good game. They have nothing to hang their heads about.

 

[NINEster]

I didn't see it that way but that's just me.

Now imo I think Wilson and Peyton are probably the two biggest leaders in the NFL. However, I saw nothing from Cam today that made him look deflated or uninterested. He's a gamer as well and Carolina is lucky to have him too.

Agreed. If Wilson wasn't here I'd want Cam.The boy is learning unlike Keapernick he will be Wilson's nightmare without factoring in Andrew Luck. Fun times are here guys so enjoy. We have that next generation elite quarterback and will be relevant as long as he is here. It's totally whack but it's the truth.

I don't get all the Kaepernick hate while all praiseworthy and respectful towards Cam Newton. If he's really better than Kaepernick they don't lose to the 49ers in the playoffs, IMO. I also don't see Newton winning in 0 degree Lambeau or threatening to win at the Link on that final drive.

A good QB, sure, but don't see elite or anything special to separate him from the young class. He's been riding the read option crutch a lot more than Kaepernick, on a game to game basis. Griffin and Kaepernick get criticized for it, but Cam gets a pass.

Keep underrating Kaep while pumping up Wilson and Newton......i.e.........judging QBs talents by how much you like or hate their respective teams. :th2thumbs:

The Panthers red zone woes cost them this game, and had one TD been made I don't see how they lose this game today.

Seahawks defense should get the credit for the win, not Wilson.

 

[Scottemojo]

I didn't see it that way but that's just me.

Now imo I think Wilson and Peyton are probably the two biggest leaders in the NFL. However, I saw nothing from Cam today that made him look deflated or uninterested. He's a gamer as well and Carolina is lucky to have him too.

Agreed. If Wilson wasn't here I'd want Cam.The boy is learning unlike Keapernick he will be Wilson's nightmare without factoring in Andrew Luck. Fun times are here guys so enjoy. We have that next generation elite quarterback and will be relevant as long as he is here. It's totally whack but it's the truth.

I don't get all the Kaepernick hate while all praiseworthy and respectful towards Cam Newton. If he's really better than Kaepernick they don't lose to the 49ers in the playoffs, IMO. I also don't see Newton winning in 0 degree Lambeau or threatening to win at the Link on that final drive.

A good QB, sure, but don't see elite or anything special to separate him from the young class. He's been riding the read option crutch a lot more than Kaepernick, on a game to game basis. Griffin and Kaepernick get criticized for it, but Cam gets a pass.

Keep underrating Kaep while pumping up Wilson and Newton......i.e.........judging QBs talents by how much you like or hate their respective teams. :th2thumbs:

The Panthers red zone woes cost them this game, and had one TD been made I don't see how they lose this game today.

Seahawks defense should get the credit for the win, not Wilson.

Kaep is better than Newton.

 

[googoodan]

Yeah, it's a sad state of affairs for the other team when they want our OL, LMAO!
On another note, if slumping your shoulders on the sideline with a towel over your head is 'black enough,' I'll keep our 'Uncle Tom,' thank you!

At least one person gets it.
Wilson wouldn't survive to halftime with our band of Ryan Kalil and the four UDFAs.

I understood what you meant and understand why you'd say it. To me it's not a a troll, more like a factual statement of the situation from the Carolina point of view.

Your 4 UDFAs + Kalil made our pass rush look good at the end. Honestly, I was surprised our defense got blown off the ball the first few Carolina drives by that patchwork OL, and we were extremely lucky to only concede FG's instead of being down 2 scores. It was like watching our read-option offense and trying to defend against it, except with Cam running it instead of RW. It was downright scary for most of the first half and only a timely turnover and a late first half mini-revival of our offense kept us in the game.

This game felt like the San Diego and Dallas games (losses) all over again until the last drive of the 1st half. I was thinking, sh*t, how are we making Carolina's supposed scrap heap OL look like Pro Bowlers?

Apparently the Seattle defensive coaches woke up made some halftime adjustments to take advantage of the patchwork.

The reality of the situation, is that if Cam makes exactly "1" more play in this game than he made, it's all reversed, and all the talk about leadership, etc. is just so much hot air. The "1" play Cam needed to do different this game was the avoid-the-sack flip-pass pick to Marcus Burley. That was a gift.

At the same time, Cam has given us several "gifts" like that in crunch time the last few seasons, so it seems he needs to somehow change his mental approach to the game to stop doing that.

Gifts:
1) The Brandon Browner strip-fumble that stopped a Carolina TD. (I think that was a 2012 game, but not 100% sure)
2) Throwing the ball into the ground at the end of the 2013 game on a 4th down play that would have led to a 14-12 Carolina win.
3) The ill-advised flip-pass pick today.
Honorable mention: The pass thrown into the ground on Carolina's last possession looked just like the pass on gift 2) above.

I can only conclude that there is something about our team, and the interaction with Cam, and where he's at in his current mastery of the game, that gets into his head and results in him giving us these kinds of gifts.

Personally, I think that Cam is so physically gifted that he's been able to ride that to success at every level prior to the NFL, and thus hasn't *had* to work as hard on the mental game, emotional self-management, and leadership. Wilson hasn't had that advantage as much, so he's had to work his ass off his whole life and look for an edge in every area, including those.

If Cam decides to really go to work on these areas, it would probably make up the 1 key play per game, and instead we'd all be talking about his passionate emotional leadership and clutch play, probably in the context of multiple Carolina Super Bowl wins. Only Cam can make that decision and do the WORK to become that composed QB and leader, in his own way, reflecting his own unique strengths.

I think an interesting parallel would be Eli Manning, with his two Super Bowl rings. Eli isn't known for his "intense emotional leadership", in fact quite the opposite. Yet he has two Superb Owl rings, from making two amazing key plays at critical times, which really just shows that he stayed positive and focused the whole time, no matter how bad sh*t got. I'm speaking specifically of the David Tyree helmet catch, after somehow escaping a sure sack, leading to improbably Lombardi #1, and then the Mario Manningham sideline tightrope that led to Lombardi #2. The major issue with Eli seems to be his season-to-season consistency with varying collections of talent, but he's sure had a couple good playoff runs.

Can Cam change his internal mental approach to be focused and constructive, when sh*t is going bad against a tough opponent, and keep his focus when it counts, and make the key play, instead of making a bonehead play? Right now, that's the difference, that's why Russell Wilson has a ring, because Russell was able to do that in timely situations last year. If and when Cam does that... scary for the rest of the league!

I think you mixed up a few of the games there, but the point stands.
Honestly, isn't "I knew we would win because of Cam's body language" just as ignorant as "I can tell he's guilty by looking at him"?
Speaking of Cam's results; go back and analyze the scores from the time we drafted Cam in 2011. Look at how many times he left the field with the lead, only for the defense to blow the game. You will be amazed. (Yesterday not included; he had nearly a full minute)

The "wow he can't get it done in crunch time" mentality is based on ESPN sensationalism, not reality.

 

[googoodan]

Cam's WRs do not bang his wife.

Beat your team the last 3 in a row. Beat in '06 in the NFCCG. RW has a Super Bowl win as do the Seahawks. Your team does not nor does your QB.

I'd have banned you for this comment btw, but then I wouldn't have had the pleasure of reminding you of all the FACTS I mentioned above so glad I'm not.

OK, next time I'll do what appears to be more acceptable and call a player on your team a "beyotch" instead.

Will you please respond to these facts: Seattle has beaten your team 3 in a row, beat your team in the NFCCG in '06 and has won a Super Bowl while Carolina has not.

Thank you in advance.

Trust me, Hawks fans remind me every single time we play about 2005.

I guess every time we play Philadelphia, I'll go around yelling 2003!

 

[googoodan]

More infuriating smile after a bad play...Shaun Alexander or Cam Newton?

Cam smiles after a bad play?

I thought this thread was about how his body language show he's dejected and on the verge of suicide

 

[googoodan]

Cam's WRs do not bang his wife.

Boy that Avatar is scarrrrrrry. Wish you had Wilson, don't you? Ha ha ha ha

No, but I would kill to have your offensive line.

I honestly could not read this as a serious statement, YOU WERE JOKING, right?

LMFAO...

Seattle would have beaten Carolina by 20 with an average O line.

Has your offensive line ever been so bad that you had to take your leading receiver and biggest downfield threat, and put him in pass protection the entire game? (Olsen)

No?

Ok.

 

[Tokadub]

I never realized how much i disliked Cam Newton... sure he always has seemed a bit smug like hes the coolest thing to ever exist just seeming incredibly arrogant and stuck up overall...

But today with all those dorky awkward poses every time he ran for a first down i think that's even worst than kaeperniks bicep kiss celebration.

I mean what other qb does something like that for a simple first down... hes a bit of a clown to be honest.

Overall i think newton and kaepernick are very similar both with how they play and their attitude/overconfidence/arrogant type of vibe. Id give the edge to Kaepernick as the better QB overall from the eyeball test but their career stats also confirms that.

Two guys who are supremely talented physically but lacking certain mental characteristics, including in my opinion intelligence to ever be a consistent leader and a true "winner" like RW.

On a side note i didnt know you could sponsor a players pro football reference page some guy put this on kaepernicks hahahaha:


"Go Seahawks! SB XLVIII Champs! Kaepernick was our 4th Quarter NFC Championship game MVP. We hope that Kaepernick keeps trying Sherman with sorry receivers like Crabtree, we love the results you're gonna get."

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... bile=false

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/p ... 0/gamelog/