Wilson has signed a deal with seattle seahawks!!!!!

[John63]

Some of these takes are killing me .

The Seahawks did not save 7M off the cap this season. Russell's cap hit for 2019 is, and has always been, 25M. The only way that number has changed is if Seattle stretched that hit into his new contract which would just add to his cap hit in future seasons.

The value of Wilsons contract extension is 140M in new money at 35M APY.

His total compensation on paper over the next 5 years is 157M.

His total cap hit during that time is right around 165M at 33M APY.

The reason his cap hit is higher than his compensation has to do with the structure of his rookie contract involving the proration of initial his signing bonus (or other bonuses). Wilson got 60M upfront to sign his new contract, but his cap hit this season is not even close to 60M. Why? Because they've distributed that cap hit over the length of the deal (proration). The same is true of his rookie contract, and Seattle is still dealing with the remainder of that on their cap in 2019.

There is no salary cap magic that allows you to pay a player X amount of dollars without it counting X amount against the cap.

Wilsons contract probably won't ever be a 'bargain'. Aaron Rodgers was #1 in APY for the first 3 years of his previous contract extension. He was in the top 5 in his 4th year, and top 8 in the final year. The gap between Rodgers and the #2 highest paid QB in his final year was less than 3M. So unless you consider being in the top 5 in terms of pay at your position a bargain. You shouldn't refer to the long term valuation of these deals as bargains.

Given there are 8+ starting QBs who will be looking for a new deal next year the odds are pretty good Wilson will not be in the top 5 and as such will be a bargain.

 

[John63]

No doubt. It's kind of sad really that he likely would have been appreciated a lot more in another place. What has this guy done to deserve all the criticism??? It's extremely odd the way people are about a guy who has done nothing but win, carried himself w/class and lead by example. Why so personal with him? Did he pee in their Cheerio's or something? Can he get better? Absolutely, and I expect him to. But my god, the constant ignoring of what is right in front of us is a trip. Especially the stuff that matters, wins, what he does when the game is on the line etc.

HE has done nothing to deserve it. Some do it just because they like to pick a player and attack. Some do it because he does not fit the mold of what a QB should look like. Some do it because he is African American. Some do it because he is to robotic. Some because they don't like his goody toe shoes attitude. Some because they think he is fake. Some do it because they blame him for not winning a 2nd Qb for get the defense gave up 10 points with 9 minutes to go. Some do it because they think he is nothing without a great defense and run game, forget the fact he is the only player in the NFL to account for over 80% of the offensive yards and over 95% of the offensive TDsin a season. Some because they blame him for the LOB breaking up, which of course is ridiculous. There are a lot of reason most have little to know basis in fact. But it is what it is. Interestingly most of them who don't like Wilson loved Hass, even though he did not win them a SB. He had a great oline, and great Run game, I wonder why they loved Hass could be because he is over 6 foot and looks like what they think an NFL QB looks like, Could be because he is Caucasian, could be because they dont think he was to robotic. Who knows. But it is a shame they treat Wilson the way they do.

it feels like perhaps this is an overreaction to how fans react to Russ. Do some fans not like him? Sure. But you will find that with every fan base.

Also, the proportion of fans who LOVE russ here in Seattle compared to those who don't is very much in Russ' favor. He is loved here.

Finally, fans are going to point out players weaknesses on a message board. Russ has strengths and weaknesses. They will be discussed.

As I said, spend some time experiencing how east coast athletes are talked about in message boards. It will provide some perspective.

I am form the east coast originally and know how they are, and every single thing I pointed out I have seen or hear myself form Seattle fans.

 

[John63]

What kills me is people here predicting a failure of a season and blaming Wilson before a snap of a football.

Quick correction. They're not predicting the upcoming season will be a failure because of Russ, they're predicting the next half decade will be a failure because of Russ.

either way it is pathetic.

 

[HawkFan72]

[youtube]aRIuKXpHPEA[/youtube]


#ALLFAX

That's a great video to bookmark

 

[Hawkpower]

No doubt. It's kind of sad really that he likely would have been appreciated a lot more in another place. What has this guy done to deserve all the criticism??? It's extremely odd the way people are about a guy who has done nothing but win, carried himself w/class and lead by example. Why so personal with him? Did he pee in their Cheerio's or something? Can he get better? Absolutely, and I expect him to. But my god, the constant ignoring of what is right in front of us is a trip. Especially the stuff that matters, wins, what he does when the game is on the line etc.

HE has done nothing to deserve it. Some do it just because they like to pick a player and attack. Some do it because he does not fit the mold of what a QB should look like. Some do it because he is African American. Some do it because he is to robotic. Some because they don't like his goody toe shoes attitude. Some because they think he is fake. Some do it because they blame him for not winning a 2nd Qb for get the defense gave up 10 points with 9 minutes to go. Some do it because they think he is nothing without a great defense and run game, forget the fact he is the only player in the NFL to account for over 80% of the offensive yards and over 95% of the offensive TDsin a season. Some because they blame him for the LOB breaking up, which of course is ridiculous. There are a lot of reason most have little to know basis in fact. But it is what it is. Interestingly most of them who don't like Wilson loved Hass, even though he did not win them a SB. He had a great oline, and great Run game, I wonder why they loved Hass could be because he is over 6 foot and looks like what they think an NFL QB looks like, Could be because he is Caucasian, could be because they dont think he was to robotic. Who knows. But it is a shame they treat Wilson the way they do.

it feels like perhaps this is an overreaction to how fans react to Russ. Do some fans not like him? Sure. But you will find that with every fan base.

Also, the proportion of fans who LOVE russ here in Seattle compared to those who don't is very much in Russ' favor. He is loved here.

Finally, fans are going to point out players weaknesses on a message board. Russ has strengths and weaknesses. They will be discussed.

As I said, spend some time experiencing how east coast athletes are talked about in message boards. It will provide some perspective.

I am form the east coast originally and know how they are, and every single thing I pointed out I have seen or hear myself form Seattle fans.

Right, but my point is that you aren't going to find a fanbase that doesn't have a segment of its fanbase that is critical of it's starting QB.

That's a pipedream, and given how overzealous many other portions of the country are, Russ is comparatively treated VERY well. The guy is worshipped here.....a few message board dudes non withstanding.

 

[Hawkpower]

Good points Hawkpower. And homer or not, I have no problem pointing out if he plays bad.
But there's a difference between pointing stuff out that he did on the field and blatantly refusing to accept how damn good he has been. Let alone his wins, 4th quarter comebacks, playoff wins etc. I have almost become numb to the refusal by people to ever give him credit for anything. Yet the same people are quick to point out negative stuff as often as possible.
Oh well, fan how you want. But Chris makes a good point. Thanks a lot Russ (for losses that haven't actually happened yet) :lol:

No you are right, there are going to be a few stubborn detractors no matter what. My guess is even Mr. Brady has his detractors in NE.

It's just pointless to get all worked up about it. The truth is...as always in between. We have negative fans who think hes terrible (not at all true) and polyanna's who blame every Russ weakness on somebody else (also not true).

Russ is a REALLY good QB, with a few weaknesses he is working on...and we are lucky to have him. That should be that honestly

 

[Fade]

What kills me is people here predicting a failure of a season and blaming Wilson before a snap of a football.

Quick correction. They're not predicting the upcoming season will be a failure because of Russ, they're predicting the next half decade will be a failure because of Russ.

either way it is pathetic.

And the clowns will continue to get roasted as per usual, what's the Problem? Remember when they used to argue he wasn't a Franchise Quarterback? He couldn't throw from the pocket? He couldn't make tight window throws? Too short? They have been walked down on so many points it is hilarious. They are desperate, and have to get their shots in while they still can, because they have ran out of ammo.

I will give them a nice little nugget of information to help save them from embarrassment. If they choose to ignore it then it's on them. Wilson will be considered a bargain by 2021, and will quickly tumble down the highest paid QB rankings list. Just like his last contract. These contracts are outdated by the time the ink dries.

With Wilson in place, Pete just has to retool his defense through the draft in the coming years to get back to a Superbowl. I like those odds, much better than most teams anyway.

Safety - ET type
Corner - Sherm type
Edge - Cliff Avril type to pair with Frank Clark.
3Tech - Inside rusher to pair with Jarran Reed on passing downs.


This is what they need to get back to a Superbowl. And Pete is damn good at developing DBs so I am not really concerned in that area as well, just get some pass rushers, and everything else will fall into place via the system.

 

[HawkRiderFan]

Here's what I don't get...when I am reading articles or listing to the NFL talking heads, who would be neutral and have no allegiances in the situation, pretty much all of them have called this a good deal, or saying the Hawks had to do it. Yet there are people in our own fan base who don't like it.

 

[Seymour]

Here's what I don't get...when I am reading articles or listing to the NFL talking heads, who would be neutral and have no allegiances in the situation, pretty much all of them have called this a good deal, or saying the Hawks had to do it. Yet there are people in our own fan base who don't like it.

Most of us don't get it. Only thing that makes sense is they are enemy spies trying to disrupt the MoJo. :snack:

 

[IndyHawk]

Some of these takes are killing me .

The Seahawks did not save 7M off the cap this season. Russell's cap hit for 2019 is, and has always been, 25M. The only way that number has changed is if Seattle stretched that hit into his new contract which would just add to his cap hit in future seasons.

The value of Wilsons contract extension is 140M in new money at 35M APY.

His total compensation on paper over the next 5 years is 157M.

His total cap hit during that time is right around 165M at 33M APY.

The reason his cap hit is higher than his compensation has to do with the structure of his rookie contract involving the proration of initial his signing bonus (or other bonuses). Wilson got 60M upfront to sign his new contract, but his cap hit this season is not even close to 60M. Why? Because they've distributed that cap hit over the length of the deal (proration). The same is true of his rookie contract, and Seattle is still dealing with the remainder of that on their cap in 2019.

There is no salary cap magic that allows you to pay a player X amount of dollars without it counting X amount against the cap.

Wilsons contract probably won't ever be a 'bargain'. Aaron Rodgers was #1 in APY for the first 3 years of his previous contract extension. He was in the top 5 in his 4th year, and top 8 in the final year. The gap between Rodgers and the #2 highest paid QB in his final year was less than 3M. So unless you consider being in the top 5 in terms of pay at your position a bargain. You shouldn't refer to the long term valuation of these deals as bargains.

:2thumbs:
Some solid information..Not the other bullshit trying to make it sound like a great
cap saving deal.

 

[mrt144]

Here's what I don't get...when I am reading articles or listing to the NFL talking heads, who would be neutral and have no allegiances in the situation, pretty much all of them have called this a good deal, or saying the Hawks had to do it. Yet there are people in our own fan base who don't like it.

People in our own fan base have a different schema of what they think makes a SB winning football team.

Outside observers see the pure talent of RW agnostic to whether he's used to his maximum value, how the rest of the team is built, the tactical desires of the coaching staff, etc etc. They have a less fleshed out impression of the whole picture but as such they aren't bogged down by dead end cynicism.

 

[John63]

HE has done nothing to deserve it. Some do it just because they like to pick a player and attack. Some do it because he does not fit the mold of what a QB should look like. Some do it because he is African American. Some do it because he is to robotic. Some because they don't like his goody toe shoes attitude. Some because they think he is fake. Some do it because they blame him for not winning a 2nd Qb for get the defense gave up 10 points with 9 minutes to go. Some do it because they think he is nothing without a great defense and run game, forget the fact he is the only player in the NFL to account for over 80% of the offensive yards and over 95% of the offensive TDsin a season. Some because they blame him for the LOB breaking up, which of course is ridiculous. There are a lot of reason most have little to know basis in fact. But it is what it is. Interestingly most of them who don't like Wilson loved Hass, even though he did not win them a SB. He had a great oline, and great Run game, I wonder why they loved Hass could be because he is over 6 foot and looks like what they think an NFL QB looks like, Could be because he is Caucasian, could be because they dont think he was to robotic. Who knows. But it is a shame they treat Wilson the way they do.

it feels like perhaps this is an overreaction to how fans react to Russ. Do some fans not like him? Sure. But you will find that with every fan base.

Also, the proportion of fans who LOVE russ here in Seattle compared to those who don't is very much in Russ' favor. He is loved here.

Finally, fans are going to point out players weaknesses on a message board. Russ has strengths and weaknesses. They will be discussed.

As I said, spend some time experiencing how east coast athletes are talked about in message boards. It will provide some perspective.

I am form the east coast originally and know how they are, and every single thing I pointed out I have seen or hear myself form Seattle fans.

Right, but my point is that you aren't going to find a fanbase that doesn't have a segment of its fanbase that is critical of it's starting QB.

That's a pipedream, and given how overzealous many other portions of the country are, Russ is comparatively treated VERY well. The guy is worshipped here.....a few message board dudes non withstanding.

To a point I agree, I just don't recall, and I am old so maybe I have forgotten, But I dont recall hearing height, race, color being brought up as much as it is here.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Here's what I don't get...when I am reading articles or listing to the NFL talking heads, who would be neutral and have no allegiances in the situation, pretty much all of them have called this a good deal, or saying the Hawks had to do it. Yet there are people in our own fan base who don't like it.

People in our own fan base have a different schema of what they think makes a SB winning football team.

Outside observers see the pure talent of RW agnostic to whether he's used to his maximum value, how the rest of the team is built, the tactical desires of the coaching staff, etc etc. They have a less fleshed out impression of the whole picture but as such they aren't bogged down by dead end cynicism.

I also think there's a LARGE segment of our fanbase that is new, and doesn't understand the value of having a top 5-10 QB, and how rare that is.

It's a myopic point of view, and if the detractors 1. Understood the sport and saw how sports contracts work and 2. Understood the history of the Hawks and understand that it's taken literally 40 years to find a Russell Wilson, and you don't just let this kind of player go because he's making 5M more than you're comfortable with.

 

[TwistedHusky]

A few days ago, the biggest challenge this team faced was whether we were going to be able to keep our QB or going to need to reload while drafting another QB that might be good/great in a year or 2. (optimistically)

Now the biggest challenge will be whether we can use one of the better QBs in the league effectively.

The 1st challenge has now been overcome.

So regardless of 'good deal or not', we are in a much better place for this coming season than we were a few weeks ago.

 

[John63]

Here's what I don't get...when I am reading articles or listing to the NFL talking heads, who would be neutral and have no allegiances in the situation, pretty much all of them have called this a good deal, or saying the Hawks had to do it. Yet there are people in our own fan base who don't like it.

People in our own fan base have a different schema of what they think makes a SB winning football team.

Outside observers see the pure talent of RW agnostic to whether he's used to his maximum value, how the rest of the team is built, the tactical desires of the coaching staff, etc etc. They have a less fleshed out impression of the whole picture but as such they aren't bogged down by dead end cynicism.

I also think there's a LARGE segment of our fanbase that is new, and doesn't understand the value of having a top 5-10 QB, and how rare that is.

It's a myopic point of view, and if the detractors 1. Understood the sport and saw how sports contracts work and 2. Understood the history of the Hawks and understand that it's taken literally 40 years to find a Russell Wilson, and you don't just let this kind of player go because he's making 5M more than you're comfortable with.

This sounds very feasible.

 

[John63]

A few days ago, the biggest challenge this team faced was whether we were going to be able to keep our QB or going to need to reload while drafting another QB that might be good/great in a year or 2. (optimistically)

Now the biggest challenge will be whether we can use one of the better QBs in the league effectively.

The 1st challenge has now been overcome.

So regardless of 'good deal or not', we are in a much better place for this coming season than we were a few weeks ago.

:shock: I agree

 

[IndyHawk]

Here's what I don't get...when I am reading articles or listing to the NFL talking heads, who would be neutral and have no allegiances in the situation, pretty much all of them have called this a good deal, or saying the Hawks had to do it. Yet there are people in our own fan base who don't like it.

People in our own fan base have a different schema of what they think makes a SB winning football team.

Outside observers see the pure talent of RW agnostic to whether he's used to his maximum value, how the rest of the team is built, the tactical desires of the coaching staff, etc etc. They have a less fleshed out impression of the whole picture but as such they aren't bogged down by dead end cynicism.

I also think there's a LARGE segment of our fanbase that is new, and doesn't understand the value of having a top 5-10 QB, and how rare that is.

It's a myopic point of view, and if the detractors 1. Understood the sport and saw how sports contracts work and 2. Understood the history of the Hawks and understand that it's taken literally 40 years to find a Russell Wilson, and you don't just let this kind of player go because he's making 5M more than you're comfortable with.

The whole thing for most of us who did not want that contract is that we will have
too many weak spots on the team to have any chance at a SB..
Why even do it if the chance's are slim to none?
People will blame everything else but the fact is we will be weak
in too many spots just like last time until the cap goes up 2-3 yrs
down the road.
It isn't that we don't like RW which certain posters cannot figure
this out.
We will see what happens but don't bitch when you see holes
and want to blame OL again or a weak D because cuts will
be made because of cap reasons.

 

[mrt144]

Here's what I don't get...when I am reading articles or listing to the NFL talking heads, who would be neutral and have no allegiances in the situation, pretty much all of them have called this a good deal, or saying the Hawks had to do it. Yet there are people in our own fan base who don't like it.

People in our own fan base have a different schema of what they think makes a SB winning football team.

Outside observers see the pure talent of RW agnostic to whether he's used to his maximum value, how the rest of the team is built, the tactical desires of the coaching staff, etc etc. They have a less fleshed out impression of the whole picture but as such they aren't bogged down by dead end cynicism.

I also think there's a LARGE segment of our fanbase that is new, and doesn't understand the value of having a top 5-10 QB, and how rare that is.

It's a myopic point of view, and if the detractors 1. Understood the sport and saw how sports contracts work and 2. Understood the history of the Hawks and understand that it's taken literally 40 years to find a Russell Wilson, and you don't just let this kind of player go because he's making 5M more than you're comfortable with.

The whole thing for most of us who did not want that contract is that we will have
too many weak spots on the team to have any chance at a SB..
Why even do it if the chance's are slim to none?
People will blame everything else but the fact is we will be weak
in too many spots just like last time until the cap goes up 2-3 yrs
down the road.
It isn't that we don't like RW which certain posters cannot figure
this out.
We will see what happens but don't bitch when you see holes
and want to blame OL again or a weak D because cuts will
be made because of cap reasons.

Perhaps then, maybe the qualm is how far along the rest of the team is then?

 

[Ad Hawk]

The whole thing for most of us who did not want that contract is that we will have
too many weak spots on the team to have any chance at a SB..
Why even do it if the chance's are slim to none?
People will blame everything else but the fact is we will be weak
in too many spots just like last time until the cap goes up 2-3 yrs
down the road.
It isn't that we don't like RW which certain posters cannot figure
this out.
We will see what happens but don't bitch when you see holes
and want to blame OL again or a weak D because cuts will
be made because of cap reasons.

The correct part of this statement quoted above is the "if" in front of it.

You're entitle to think that's the case, but you could also be very wrong, no matter how loud you shout it, or with however much conviction you hold it.

The chance for any team in a given year is very low, but having good placers in key positions raises the chances. I like our with RW far better than without him. I agree that having a stacked, well-balanced team is necessary, but a good QB who is playing very well is nearly always necessary, too. We have that, let's see if the FO can put together enough talent to compete this year, and maybe have an open window in the next couple years.

Building a team doesn't happen in a single year.

 

[Ad Hawk]

Perhaps then, maybe the qualm is how far along the rest of the team is then?

Exactly, or how far they can get in the next couple years.