Wilson is not Elite

[LTH]

Wilson is a glorified game manager. As soon as the running game struggles or in today’s case Carson goes out the Offense becomes pedestrian at best. Elite qb’s can carry a team with no running game. Wilson looks lost out there when the running game goes stale. Missing receivers, taking sacks, throwing picks. I don’t care what his stats are. No way you can give this guy 25+ million.

I NEVER understand these guys who don't understand the game... :rumble:

 

[Hawkpower]

My concern is with his athleticism. He used to mask some of weaknesses by scrambling out of trouble and making magic with his legs. Now he tries and gets caught nearly every time.

Its almost as if he starts to scramble and is used to being able to get away and now he can't.

Since he isn't a guy that has ever consistently been able to get the ball out quick, Im concerned that we may continue to see him take untimely sacks like we saw today.

I think Russ needs to acknowledge his loss of speed and try his best to morph into more of a regular NFL QB. I think he could do it, but he needs to realize he isn't going to pull houdini acts in the pocket anymore. Throw the dang ball on rhythm and get it out to your receivers!!!

 

[LTH]

My concern is with his athleticism. He used to mask some of weaknesses by scrambling out of trouble and making magic with his legs. Now he tries and gets caught nearly every time.

Its almost as if he starts to scramble and is used to being able to get away and now he can't.

Since he isn't a guy that has ever consistently been able to get the ball out quick, Im concerned that we may continue to see him take untimely sacks like we saw today.

I think Russ needs to acknowledge his loss of speed and try his best to morph into more of a regular NFL QB. I think he could do it, but he needs to realize he isn't going to pull houdini acts in the pocket anymore. Throw the dang ball on rhythm and get it out to your receivers!!!

two things.... the first is we don't want Wilson taking off running. its not worth the injury. second, teams are playing him differently because of his running ability they are containing him. just my take

LTH

 

[Scorpion05]

I partly agree--Wilson isn't 1st tier, but there are very few who are. Brady, Rodgers, Brees come to mind.

Wilson is probably 2nd tier. I'd put Cam Newton, Patrick Mahomes, Matt Ryan in that category. Could the Hawks be more effective with someone like, Andrew Luck? Perhaps. But we'll never know, it's purely hypothetical.

I'm not ready to throw Wilson out with the bathwater just yet. I also think he's more injured than we know--his runs on his run-pass option looks really slow...

Andrew Luck? Highly doubt it. Luck isn't even close to Wilson but that's just my opinion.

Brees has Sean Payton, and amazing personnel on offense. Watching Brees, Brady, and Rodgers over the years, the only QB that is without a doubt worlds ahead is Rodgers to me. But Rodgers is also imo the Greatest thrower of the football ever. We can have an entire debate about Brees and Brady's career in context when factoring in their coach, offense, etc.

I still think Wilson is Tier 1. #4 or #5? Sure, but he can make all the throws and take over a game. He can read defenses just like those Tier 1 QBs. I think it's actually funny what expectations can do. We win 4 of our last 5, people are high on Wilson. We lose, and we're a terrible team with a just "good" QB. Then, if we go on another winning streak we'll be right back to praising Wilson, until......we lose another game. Such are the emotions of being a Hawks fan.

Wilson has a long career ahead of him. At some point in the future, the Seahawks are going to be as loaded as the Saints, Chargers, or Rams...and people are going to have a different opinion of Wilson even though I can argue he's done it in years past with less. If the Seahawks make the playoffs this year, it will say a lot about Pete & Russ, given how many late rounders and cast offs we're turning into solid NFL players

 

[MStewart12]

LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board

That's true, if you look back to how wilson played years ago when he played how he wanted we were much more successful, I'm still not on board with this new OC and how hes trying to mold Russel. But I agree, I cant stand it how after a perfect passer rating game, hes suddenly this terrible quarterback who isn't capable with no run game, when last year he accounted for like 95% of our TDs.

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[Crizilla]

Wilson just can't get rid of the ball like Brady and Rodgers can.

 

[Seafan]

Russ has played better, and I expect him to play better in the future. I could tell early he wasn't on his game. He really looked passive and his throws showed it in the first three quarters. Three of the sacks were on him and so was one of the false starts. The pick six was freaking horrible. He really doesn't have any quicks. He completely fell apart in the pocket when the past few weeks he had really done well.

I'm not overly concerned. Loss to an AFC team. Still in position with the rest of the NFC. But going 8-8 is a definite possibility and that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

 

[Hawkpower]

Wilson just can't get rid of the ball like Brady and Rodgers can.

And when he does, he is typically pretty good. When he hits his back foot and lets it rip, its usually a good result.

We've made excuse after excuse for him over the years for why he doesn't do it like the elite QB's do. Some of it with merit. But with his line blocking pretty well for him now, those excuses are waning. He needs to elevate that part of his game.

 

[JimmyG]

My concern is with his athleticism. He used to mask some of weaknesses by scrambling out of trouble and making magic with his legs. Now he tries and gets caught nearly every time.

Its almost as if he starts to scramble and is used to being able to get away and now he can't.

Since he isn't a guy that has ever consistently been able to get the ball out quick, Im concerned that we may continue to see him take untimely sacks like we saw today.

I think Russ needs to acknowledge his loss of speed and try his best to morph into more of a regular NFL QB. I think he could do it, but he needs to realize he isn't going to pull houdini acts in the pocket anymore. Throw the dang ball on rhythm and get it out to your receivers!!!

I agree. And the problem of course is that, while his athleticism is waning, he isn't growing any taller. He used to be able to compensate for his lack of height with his disappearing acts, but now we're seeing them less and less.

Wilson's efficiency numbers this year are great... but here's my concern: we're dead last in the league in pass attempts.

At the beginning of his career, Wilson was in sort of "Game Manager" mode, where our offense was run-heavy, supplemented by Wilson attempting about 400-450 passes a year. The last couple years, his pass attempts rose significantly (~25% higher), but his efficiency numbers dropped.

His efficiency numbers this year are back to where they used to be... but they've also scaled back his usage; he's on pace for only 442 pass attempts, which would be his lowest total since 2013. I view the scaled back passing as an indictment on the coaching staff's trust in him being able to handle the load of the offense centered around him. I find it a little alarming that, despite how pass-friendly the league has become, we are throttling back on how much we throw.

Now, predictably, some of you are going to scream, "the only reason we've scaled back his workload is because Pete is a dinosaur and failed to adapt or try something new!" I disagree. We spent 2016 and 2017 trying something new (increased reliance on Wilson) and it just didn't work. We weren't anything close to the juggernaut we used to be. His numbers last year on paper were good, but we were basically a .500 team.

 

[Scorpion05]

LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board

That's true, if you look back to how wilson played years ago when he played how he wanted we were much more successful, I'm still not on board with this new OC and how hes trying to mold Russel. But I agree, I cant stand it how after a perfect passer rating game, hes suddenly this terrible quarterback who isn't capable with no run game, when last year he accounted for like 95% of our TDs.

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Yep.

Not to mention, Wilson holds onto the ball just like Rodgers. Rodgers is clearly better than Wilson, but he's not exactly known for always getting the ball out quickly. Even watching this game on SNF currently he's holding onto the ball, just got sack and fumbled...ball went out of bounds

Brees has thrown a minimum of 14 interceptions for 9 seasons of his career. Basically, for more than half of his career he's been turnover prone. Just last year he only threw for 23 Tds because he had Kamara and Ingram to take over. This year however Brees is having an amazing year.

I'm all for calling out Wilson when he has a bad game. But since I've been on .NET, I can't remember one time Wilson had a bad game without multiple people suggesting he's not a great QB. You would think Brady, Rodgers, Brees never throw pick sixes, struggle, have down years, or have bad games. Every elite QB has had those struggles. It's just that a noticeable population of our fan base(not most) are quick to jump on Wilson the moment he struggles. Wilson has had enough good to great years to warrant some calling him Elite

 

[semiahmoo]

Wilson is having a solid season and unlike some, I think he's performing well given the new OC.

He does need a running game to be at his best though and yes, that compliments his "game manager" skill set which makes him among the league's very best at 'managing' the offense.

It was an off game. It happens.

I look for Russ to bounce back.

 

[strohmin]

LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board

Right because different views is frowned upon here. Makes us look real silly as a fan base. I like Wilson but he is what he is. He needs a running game to succeed. Without it our Offense is bottom 5 in the league.

No, You are entitled to your "different view" opinion, but good gawd man, just think about it for a minute, Ya think Rivers would have near the success he's enjoying IF his Running Game all the sudden went into the toilet? not only no, but HELL NO!

You think that running game would be there without Rivers? Our defense could have stuffed the run game but they had to worry about Rivers passing all over them. Chargers D doesn't have to worry about that because Russ is currently not capable of playing at Philip Rivers level.

 

[AgentDib]

It's funny that some people get hung up on the term "game manager" as if that's a bad thing. If we were putting together a top five list of problems the Hawks had today then one of the items would be Russ not managing the game as well as he is capable of.

Imagine Wilson avoiding one bad sack, looking off coverage instead of staring down a receiver into a pick six, having better accuracy on two of those throws that got away from him, perhaps finding one more open receiver over the course of the game. The kind of game management that we saw last week would have propelled us to a win today and would be worth every dollar, we just need to see it from Russ more consistently.

 

[Northwest Seahawk]

At some point Wilson he has to play well enough to win against good teams and he hasn't done it this year not once. These next few games are going to tell a lot about Wilson. So we'll see but right now i'm starting to seriously doubt Wilson is the QB that we need to get back to the playoffs . He is not a QB that can carry a team to the playoffs without a ton of help. The only defense for this game today is the Chargers are flat out a better team and will probably play in the AFC Championship.

 

[Scorpion05]

LOL. Guy plays with no running game last year, throws 34 TD passes, leads the team in rushing, and suddenly he's a "game manager who can't play without a running game"

He had a bad game. Like virtually every QB has had against great competition. The QB on the other side couldn't sniff the playoffs until the possibility of this year when he has talent loaded all around him. This is a really weak point with the sole intention of creating division on this board

Right because different views is frowned upon here. Makes us look real silly as a fan base. I like Wilson but he is what he is. He needs a running game to succeed. Without it our Offense is bottom 5 in the league.

No, You are entitled to your "different view" opinion, but good gawd man, just think about it for a minute, Ya think Rivers would have near the success he's enjoying IF his Running Game all the sudden went into the toilet? not only no, but HELL NO!

You think that running game would be there without Rivers? Our defense could have stuffed the run game but they had to worry about Rivers passing all over them. Chargers D doesn't have to worry about that because Russ is currently not capable of playing at Philip Rivers level.

LOL. Have you paid attention to Rivers' career, ever?

Not capable of playing at Rivers level? Well in that case, 2015 shows that Cam Newton is an elite QB. Rivers is loaded with talent at receiver, and the Chargers are almost as talented as the Rams and Chiefs. The Chargers O-line out-physical'd us. Re-watch the game and that's what you'll see. It has far less to do with Rivers' arm, which hasn't done crap for the Chargers since 2004 for the most part in a WEAK AFC for most of his career

 

[Scorpion05]

My concern is with his athleticism. He used to mask some of weaknesses by scrambling out of trouble and making magic with his legs. Now he tries and gets caught nearly every time.

Its almost as if he starts to scramble and is used to being able to get away and now he can't.

Since he isn't a guy that has ever consistently been able to get the ball out quick, Im concerned that we may continue to see him take untimely sacks like we saw today.

I think Russ needs to acknowledge his loss of speed and try his best to morph into more of a regular NFL QB. I think he could do it, but he needs to realize he isn't going to pull houdini acts in the pocket anymore. Throw the dang ball on rhythm and get it out to your receivers!!!

I agree. And the problem of course is that, while his athleticism is waning, he isn't growing any taller. He used to be able to compensate for his lack of height with his disappearing acts, but now we're seeing them less and less.

Wilson's efficiency numbers this year are great... but here's my concern: we're dead last in the league in pass attempts.

At the beginning of his career, Wilson was in sort of "Game Manager" mode, where our offense was run-heavy, supplemented by Wilson attempting about 400-450 passes a year. The last couple years, his pass attempts rose significantly (~25% higher), but his efficiency numbers dropped.

His efficiency numbers this year are back to where they used to be... but they've also scaled back his usage; he's on pace for only 442 pass attempts, which would be his lowest total since 2013. I view the scaled back passing as an indictment on the coaching staff's trust in him being able to handle the load of the offense centered around him. I find it a little alarming that, despite how pass-friendly the league has become, we are throttling back on how much we throw.

Now, predictably, some of you are going to scream, "the only reason we've scaled back his workload is because Pete is a dinosaur and failed to adapt or try something new!" I disagree. We spent 2016 and 2017 trying something new (increased reliance on Wilson) and it just didn't work. We weren't anything close to the juggernaut we used to be. His numbers last year on paper were good, but we were basically a .500 team.

This shows then how high of a standard we hold Wilson to, because it did work. Even without an average run game, having a kicker other than Blair Walsh would have had us AT LEAST at 11-5 in a super wide open NFC playoffs. 9-7 given that Russ had more on his shoulders than ANY other QB last year says a lot

 

[Tical21]

In a lot of ways, Russ is elite, but the mental part of the game is not where it would need to be, to be in that tier. Before the snap on the pick-6, I said out loud "oh no, Russ thinks this is man."

 

[chris98251]

Wilson never was in rhythm all day, the ball into the ground looked like a aimed throw to me, they never work, the incomplete at the end was a tipped ball and changed the trajectory some, not Moore's fault if he would have caught it, the pass would have be considered as a terrific catch.


Wilson I think had times where he tries to embrace the moment as he has said and tries to do to much to extend plays, but that's the bad with the good, when it works we are all high fives, when it doesn't he isn't Elite!

 

[Spin Doctor]

Wilson just can't get rid of the ball like Brady and Rodgers can.

And when he does, he is typically pretty good. When he hits his back foot and lets it rip, its usually a good result.

We've made excuse after excuse for him over the years for why he doesn't do it like the elite QB's do. Some of it with merit. But with his line blocking pretty well for him now, those excuses are waning. He needs to elevate that part of his game.

Russ can do it, the issue is he lacks consistency. He is the modern day Donovan McNabb in this respect. McNabb, like Wilson could take over a game, and throw some of the most beautiful passes you've ever seen. That upside also came with some lows where McNabb looked like a backup tier QB. Luckily, unlike McNabb, Wilson has been graced with both a great defense, and a knack for being able to pull his head out of you know where when the time called for it. Also like Wilson, McNabb never really turned over the ball much. Just went through large stretches of football that he couldn't move the ball if his life depended on it.

Wilson has the tools, he just lacks consistency. It seems he starts getting this way if he gets early pressure, or something goes bad in the early game. He starts playing hero ball rather than taking the easy play. He starts pressing and forgetting his fundamentals as a passer. It devolves into backyard football.

 

[RCATES]

To be honest there were a lot of passing plays where no one was open. The game plan for the passing game was awful. That being said Wilson was off and had a bad game. It happens. Doesn’t mean you throw him away. Tough for any QB when you are facing 3rd and long a billion times. It was total offensive failure including the QB.

Well when you take a 15 yard loss on a sack because you tried to do too much that’s what you end up with. Yesterday’s sacks were all on Wilson. Again when the threat of the running game diminishes Wilson’s game drops off a cliff.