Wilson is not Elite

[Ozzy]

I didn't read this thread because I know whats going to be said but its hilarious how badly a fan base views their QB. Wilson is off to a historical pace in an offense that isn't conducive to QB's. 2nd all time passer rating, over a 100 this year, an elite TD/INT ratio, a passing attack that doesn't scheme guys open but relies on execution only and with a very conservative coach and its almost unbelievable he's been as good as he has. In any other system he would be a stat monster.

He's not perfect, no one is but he's every bit elite and no one in the league doubts that anymore. Brady rattled off the 4 best and listed Russell, I'll agree with that.

 

[chris98251]

I would be curious to see how well Brady would have done here with our line and Bevell calling plays and not having a TE to bail him out since he would be required to block , or not use the middle of the field for fear of a turn over.

 

[CamanoIslandJQ]

Tom Brady: 1-st year in NFL - 2000, -------19 seasons played, so far.
Aaron Rodgers: 1-st year in NFL - 2005, -------14 seasons played, so far.
Drew Brees: 1-st year in NFL - 2001, -------18 seasons played, so far.
Phillip Rivers: 1-st year in BFL - 2004, -------15 seasons played, so far.
Ben Roethisberger: 1-st year in NFL - 2004, -------15 seasons played, so far.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--Russell Wilson, 1-st year in NFL - 2012, -------7 seasons played, so far.
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My conclusions:
--Wilson has 36% to 50% of the seasons played by the supposed "elite" QB's. So then, how valid a comparison?

--All of the listed QB's have had piss poor games now and then & some were really, really bad.

--Perhaps when Wilson has the same number of years of playing QB, he'll be considered "elite" too?

--Maybe a much better comparison would be to look at them at the same point of their careers? How many of the listed QB's were considered "elite" in their 1-st 7 seasons? Do Super bowl appearances/wins count as bonuses to elite status?

-- Why is "elite" such a difficult description & what's wrong with just being very good at your job? There are exactly zero perfect QB's (or any other position) in the NFL, beyond that it's just hyperbole and blind faith in any QB that is both a fan favorite and a team that wins most of their games. If Wilson isn't considered elite now, wait until he has 15-19 years behind him. maybe then he'll get recognized as "elite" but until then, I'll be fine with the designation of "a very good QB". On top of that, if RW wasn't a Seahawk, where would the team be? What QB (that would have been available to the Seahawks) would have replaced him and have done anywhere near as well?

:smilingalien:

 

[DomeHawk]

This is a week-to-week thing. RW can only be judged on the body of his work, not an emotional response to one win or loss.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

Wilson is too inconsistent to be thought of as an "elite" QB.

He's good.

But he is not better than the following QBs:

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Mahomes (Yes, I said it)
To an extent, I would even argue Newton and Ryan is better than Wilson.

 

[TheLegendOfBoom]

I would be curious to see how well Brady would have done here with our line and Bevell calling plays and not having a TE to bail him out since he would be required to block , or not use the middle of the field for fear of a turn over.

I think Brady would find more success.

I still think Wilson's height minimizes the available play calls the OC can make.

Wilson cannot throw short passes and needs to drop back with 5 and 7 step drops in order to see passing lanes.

 

[Uncle Si]

Wilson is too inconsistent to be thought of as an "elite" QB.

He's good.

But he is not better than the following QBs:

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Mahomes (Yes, I said it)
To an extent, I would even argue Newton and Ryan is better than Wilson.

Do stats matter?

 

[Seymour]

Wilson is too inconsistent to be thought of as an "elite" QB.

He's good.

But he is not better than the following QBs:

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Mahomes (Yes, I said it)
To an extent, I would even argue Newton and Ryan is better than Wilson.

Do stats matter?

Nope. Just personal favoritism is all that counts.

 

[HommyHawk]

He just needs to sleep more...I think B Marsh made a joke about it earlier this season. Two hours a night will not allow your body to perform at an elite level on a consistent basis.

 

[Seahawk Sailor]

Wilson is too inconsistent to be thought of as an "elite" QB.

He's good.

But he is not better than the following QBs:

Brady
Rodgers
Brees
Rivers
Roethlisberger
Mahomes (Yes, I said it)
To an extent, I would even argue Newton and Ryan is better than Wilson.

Do stats matter?

Apparently not.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I would be curious to see how well Brady would have done here with our line and Bevell calling plays and not having a TE to bail him out since he would be required to block , or not use the middle of the field for fear of a turn over.

Brady probably wouldn't do well here, because his skillset would be stunted in Pete's offensive schemes and philosophy.

Pete even admitted after the Lions game "we're not going to fool anyone with what we're trying to do." Bellichick, McDaniels and Brady are successful because they're brilliant at their complex dynamic style of offense that changes game to game, and even series to series.

So "elite" is not the right word. "Effective" is the right word IMO, and 80% of the time Russell is very effective within the confines of our offense and what Pete asks him to do.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

What's the point of throwing the ball away when you can make things happen. Until the days he can no longer evade defenders is the day he needs to change his game. Right now he still able too, maybe not like he was a few years ago but probably still the best in the NFL in improvising and making plays.

My beef is that he doesn't hold the ball w/ read option. It seems like so many times he has it but elects to just give it to the RB. He needs to do this more just to keep the defense in check. We thrive so much when Wilson did this w/ Lynch.

I'd much rather him throw it away then take a 15 yard loss on a Sack. 3 and 8 is much better then 3rd and 23. In other words a drive killing sack. Wilson is the king of these. Its something you rarely see from Elite Qb's. He's regressed as a player. Blame it on loss of speed, lack of vision (being short) or just simply trying to do too much. Fact is he is going the wrong direction on player development. Its worrisome going forward to say the least. This is why I standby that he peaked in 2013.

I agree.

He's still better than the alternatives.

Though I'd be happy if he'd start throwing it away instead of the megasacks. Or just take the sack at the line of scrimmage instead of 20 yards behind it.

 

[chris98251]

I would be curious to see how well Brady would have done here with our line and Bevell calling plays and not having a TE to bail him out since he would be required to block , or not use the middle of the field for fear of a turn over.

Brady probably wouldn't do well here, because his skillset would be stunted in Pete's offensive schemes and philosophy.

Pete even admitted after the Lions game "we're not going to fool anyone with what we're trying to do." Bellichick, McDaniels and Brady are successful because they're brilliant at their complex dynamic style of offense that changes game to game, and even series to series.

So "elite" is not the right word. "Effective" is the right word IMO, and 80% of the time Russell is very effective within the confines of our offense and what Pete asks him to do.

This is what I was shooting for really. The fantasy stats don't matter when it comes down to it, it's wins and worth to your franchise.