Wilson on Carrolls comment about wanting him to check down

[misfit]

How many times has Russ bailed Pete's trash ass coaching out though?

And the one time he doesn't yall wanna pile on him? Makes no sense

 

[OrangeGravy]

We have a great QB. We have a coach with a history of winning.

Still, Wilson is an offensive weapon being deployed by a defensive-minded coach. And since you go with what you know and where you are comfortable, Carroll will tend to want to lean on his defense more than the alternative.

Many of us wonder just how good Wilson can be in a system that better leverages his strengths and focuses on the offense. (Like if Payton was Wilson's coach).

That is just as fans.

You don't think that someone that lives and breathes football, and immerses themselves in it 24/7 - wouldn't wonder the same thing?

At some point, Wilson is going to want to see what he can do with someone that focuses on his strengths and puts gameplans in place that make him better. The hope is that a new OC scratches that itch. But nobody should be shocked if Wilson wants to find out before his career is over.

The question is, does he do this here or somewhere else? Because he WILL do this.

The key barrier is inertia and uncertainty, but if we hit a losing skid - the other opportunities will become tempting. Eventually, he will want to see what the other side is like. And we will have to give that to him, or watch him do this somewhere else.

It will eventually come to this point with Pete & Wilson. The question is when.

That may be how Russell feels, but he's delusional if he thinks his results are gonna be any different somewhere else. So I'm supposed to believe that he's ignoring the check downs and underneath stuff only because he's in Seattle playing for a defensive minded coach, bit all of the sudden he'll discover those things if he's playing for Payton. It's not possible to put an offense together that takes advantage of a QBs strengths who only wants to hit long shots and ignore everything else. The only possible way is to have a running game like we did with Marshawn.

 

[OrangeGravy]

As many people know I am pretty optimistic about the Hawks but this is NOT a good situation IMO... I'm not putting Blame on anybody although I don't think its Wilsons job to second guess Carroll or the OC. If Pete can't get a handle on this I think a change is appropriate. I cant imagine what it must be like having to manage all of these alpha male personalities...my goodness it must be hard. I think Wilson is getting a little full of himself IMO no player is bigger than the team. I have never been able to watch Wilsons PC's as I always thought he just buttered it up and said what sounded good... Wilson wants Brady like power in the organization but to get that one must make Brady like decisions on and off the field I'm not sure Wilson is at that level yet... Winning fixes all so if they continue to win it will be a non issue but I just don't see this as a positive thing at all...


LTH

Russell is not an alpha male. He cowered line a little b!tch when the team had too many actual alpha males. He's a beta who found himself in a situation with s ton of leverage. He's proving to just as fake as most people who outwardly portray a squeaky clean image.

All carefully crafted facade. Russ doesn't give a rip about the team. His legacy is his only concern. He told us all off-season, we just didn't want to hear it

 

[toffee]

How many times has Russ bailed Pete's trash ass coaching out though?

And the one time he doesn't yall wanna pile on him? Makes no sense

Some may argue that Pete designed a system in which Russ excelled?

 

[misfit]

How many times has Russ bailed Pete's trash ass coaching out though?

And the one time he doesn't yall wanna pile on him? Makes no sense

Some may argue that Pete designed a system in which Russ excelled?

Russ could excel in any system

 

[Maelstrom787]

How many times has Russ bailed Pete's trash ass coaching out though?

And the one time he doesn't yall wanna pile on him? Makes no sense

Some may argue that Pete designed a system in which Russ excelled?

Russ could excel in any system

Then he should've excelled in 2020 during the second half of the season.

 

[hawk45]

To chris98xxx's point, Pete famously shielded Russ from criticism during the LOB years. I actually think that was the right thing to do; all the money was on the defensive side of the ball, Russell was doing it with a Cable OL and Bevell.

Fast forward to now. The OL is now competent in my eyes in pass pro. Pete gave Russ and Schotty full reign last year until 2 high resulted in 3 winnable games that were lost due to bad interceptions.

This offseason Russ expressed displeasure, Pete and the FO sought out OL help, TE help, hell SLOT RECEIVER help, to go with DK and Lockett who are arguably the best 1-2 receiver duo in the NFL, and changed OCs with Russell's input to try to get Russ some easier looks and sort out our high variability pass offense without resorting to running the ball much, much more.

4 OCs and a ton of talent on offense later, the excuses are just gone, I'm sorry. That's why I feel Pete made the comment about the checkdown. When you can't get through to a players, making pointed comments in public is a last resort (think Bill Parcells) and IMO that's appropriate signaling by Pete.

They remade the entire team in the image of Wilson, to the extent that we must win many games with offense if the D can provide a key stop (like the D did provide v the Titans). Wilson *must* grow in terms of taking what the defense gives or we are just first round playoff losers, period.

Russ is the best QB we've ever had, and a top 5 quarterback in this league. We need him to make the last jump, because that's what it takes (Brady) to win multiple championships in the salary cap era. I think Wilson can do it, I see a QB who needs to acknowledge the hole in his game to make that happen.

 

[jammerhawk]

Molehill becomes a mountain as the search for destructive controversy continues. Pete hates Russ , Russ hates Pete, blah, blah.. This place is toxic at times. This stuff unfortunately acquires looks and everyone has their view when it matters little and is something that beyond attention to fixing should be in the rear view mirror. Each side has their viewpoint.

It's the O's fault , no it's the D's fault for the OT loss to the Titans. in actuality the team lost and each phase of the game deserved some recrimination or responsibility, coaches, players should all bear some blame.

I'm focused on the Vikings.

 

[pittpnthrs]

Terrible answer all-around from him. Heroball is what he wants, and he won't win $h!t that way.

He's basically won that way for 6 years now. People quickly forget how many times he's had to put the team on his back and pull rabbits out of the hat to win games due to crap game plans. So he didnt throw to a TE for 3 yards in OT last week. I think I can forgive him for failing every once in awhile.

You are one of the people who professes that, as things currently are, the team is incapable of being remotely competitive in the offseason.

Why, then, would you defend the same methodology that has led to years of disappointing losses?

Doesn't matter who is saying it. Russ, Pete, Shane, Media Pundits: Heroball doesn't work anymore. It simply doesn't.

Russ has been provided a talented line (as long as injuries don't continue to bone them), an awesome set of receivers, and a top-10 bellcow rusher. It's time to operate neatly within a structured, contemporary offensive attack like other MVP level quarterbacks do. Create where you can, but this isn't the schoolyard. Hit your damn checkdowns and move the chains. Mahomes can do it. Tannehill can do it. Lamar doesn't have to because he can still run. Allen's learning to do it. Russ can, too. He's choosing not to.

He's an amazing improviser, but that just isn't how teams take the next step.

The team is incapable of being competitive in the post season, but thats not on Russ when he has to play damn near perfect football in order to overcome pathetic game day coaching. He wasnt perfect last Sunday and they lost. Team has another disgraceful defense so its going to be another 'shootout' type of season, so give the guy that gives the team the only possibility of winning a break. Concentrate on the complaining to the areas that deserve it. Wilson is a top 5 QB in the league PERIOD. When he has had enough and finally bails, some of you fans are going to get a real eye opener.

 

[toffee]

How many times has Russ bailed Pete's trash ass coaching out though?

And the one time he doesn't yall wanna pile on him? Makes no sense

Some may argue that Pete designed a system in which Russ excelled?

Russ could excel in any system

Then he should've excelled in 2020 during the second half of the season.

Nailed it.

 

[LTH]

Molehill becomes a mountain as the search for destructive controversy continues. Pete hates Russ , Russ hates Pete, blah, blah.. This place is toxic at times. This stuff unfortunately acquires looks and everyone has their view when it matters little and is something that beyond attention to fixing should be in the rear view mirror. Each side has their viewpoint.

It's the O's fault , no it's the D's fault for the OT loss to the Titans. in actuality the team lost and each phase of the game deserved some recrimination or responsibility, coaches, players should all bear some blame.

I'm focused on the Vikings.

I got duped by reporters... Ive been working long hours and noy reading, I should have check into what Condotta was saying.. I even know better than that as I've been all over the media for being stupid... I've always kinda trusted Condotta as usually he is pretty on point along with Gregg Bell... but after reading this thread and doing some checking I was duped...LOL

Oh well happens to the best of us


LTH

 

[Scorpion05]

How many times has Russ bailed Pete's trash ass coaching out though?

And the one time he doesn't yall wanna pile on him? Makes no sense

Some may argue that Pete designed a system in which Russ excelled?

Russ could excel in any system

Then he should've excelled in 2020 during the second half of the season.

Russ finished the 2020 season with 40 TDs lol. Top 3. So only the following can be true:


A) 29 other QBs sucked/didn’t perform well enough for parts of the season.
B) 29 other QBs had average performances overall throughout the season.
C) Russ’ “bad stretch” was on par overall with top QBs.

We can play the same game for turnovers if you’d like. As in, Russ’ turnovers last season were very basic and expected for most elite QBs in history. All you’re really saying out loud is “I believe in judging Russ differently from any other QB in the league in the recent history of the NFL.” Just say that every time before posting about Russ for deeper context lol.

 

[Reaneypark]

https://twitter.com/bcondotta/status/1441125662559924228?s=20


Russell Wilson was asked about Carroll's statement that he wished Wilson had checked down on the first-down play in OT Sunday. Asked if he agreed with Carroll's assessment Wilson said "I think what I agree with is trying to find a way to win the game.'' ... Wilson noted the pass was just 3-4 inches from being complete and "I'm not gonna change my mindset'' and that he knows how to win games in those situations. ... -Bob Condotta

very interesting... sounds very defensive to me...

LTH

Just two more first downs in the fourth quarter and he does win. Guess he’d rather keep trying to play “hero ball”?

 

[Maelstrom787]

Some may argue that Pete designed a system in which Russ excelled?

Russ could excel in any system

Then he should've excelled in 2020 during the second half of the season.

Russ finished the 2020 season with 40 TDs lol. Top 3. So only the following can be true:


A) 29 other QBs sucked/didn’t perform well enough for parts of the season.
B) 29 other QBs had average performances overall throughout the season.
C) Russ’ “bad stretch” was on par overall with top QBs.

We can play the same game for turnovers if you’d like. As in, Russ’ turnovers last season were very basic and expected for most elite QBs in history. All you’re really saying out loud is “I believe in judging Russ differently from any other QB in the league in the recent history of the NFL.” Just say that every time before posting about Russ for deeper context lol.

Welp, you have it here, folks:

Russ didn't shit the bed in the second half of last year, and this guys VOLUME STATS prove it, apparently.

Try actually looking with your eyes for once, my guy. This is worse than when Andrew Luck fans tried to convince me he was better than Russ because he had more yards.

 

[Maelstrom787]

Some may argue that Pete designed a system in which Russ excelled?

Russ could excel in any system

Then he should've excelled in 2020 during the second half of the season.

Russ finished the 2020 season with 40 TDs lol. Top 3. So only the following can be true:


A) 29 other QBs sucked/didn’t perform well enough for parts of the season.
B) 29 other QBs had average performances overall throughout the season.
C) Russ’ “bad stretch” was on par overall with top QBs.

We can play the same game for turnovers if you’d like. As in, Russ’ turnovers last season were very basic and expected for most elite QBs in history. All you’re really saying out loud is “I believe in judging Russ differently from any other QB in the league in the recent history of the NFL.” Just say that every time before posting about Russ for deeper context lol.

PS: You SURE you want to do it for turnovers? Because he was tied for the third most picks thrown in the league last year.

That'd mean something if I was a Facebook-level commenter and listed volume stats as a primary indicator of ability, which they aren't.

 

[Maelstrom787]

He's a quarterback, not a deity.

He has flaws. He exacerbates them by stubbornly adhering to a harder, less efficient way of playing football. People criticized Pete for that for years. Russ deserves the same criticism.

No one does it alone. Every single quarterback needs a supporting cast. Russell won't get anywhere by refusing to use it to his advantage. He needs to get the ball out on time and reliably. He needs to stop spinning out of the pocket, because he can't get away with it as often anymore. He needs to stop looking off perfectly good targets for low percentage passes so the chains can move.

That doesn't mean that I am saying that he's bad or judging him unfairly in any way. The team has been built around Russell. That comes with responsibility, and when he falls short, it's game on to point out the things that he needs to do better. Acting like that takes anything away from him is weirdly cultish. This isn't a religion, Russell isn't an idol, and pointing out his issues is not sin.

 

[pittpnthrs]

This isn't a religion, Russell isn't an idol, and pointing out his issues is not sin.

Same can be said for Pete Carroll, but yet some of us get crucified when we do.

 

[Maelstrom787]

This isn't a religion, Russell isn't an idol, and pointing out his issues is not sin.

Same can be said for Pete Carroll, but yet some of us get crucified when we do.

I'd say most of the board is tired of Pete's flaws. I don't think he's gotten enough credit for adjusting, and think he receives too much blame in the big picture, but he's deserved ire before. The Cowboys playoff game stands out as particularly bad.

 

[toffee]

This isn't a religion, Russell isn't an idol, and pointing out his issues is not sin.

Same can be said for Pete Carroll, but yet some of us get crucified when we do.

Fire Pete is a daily cry.
How Pete ruined Wilson remain the most popular topic.

 

[OrangeGravy]

This isn't a religion, Russell isn't an idol, and pointing out his issues is not sin.

Same can be said for Pete Carroll, but yet some of us get crucified when we do.

I'd say most of the board is tired of Pete's flaws. I don't think he's gotten enough credit for adjusting, and think he receives too much blame in the big picture, but he's deserved ire before. The Cowboys playoff game stands out as particularly bad.

I don't think there's any debate on who catches more blame from fans, media, whoever, it's Pete hands down. Which isnt really a problem. The only disagreement I have with Pete blame is where it concerns the offense and Russell. I think the assumption that he meddles with okay calling is way over exaggerated. The popular sentiment is the problems are 90%+ Pete, 10% OC/Russ historically. I think it's at best 50/50 and personally feel it's about 80/20 Russ's limitations.

The perfect offense for Russ is the version we had with Marshawn. He can hit big plays and in turn we can close games out with the run. He just cannot sustain a heavily tilted pass offense playing the way he does for an entire season and absolutely won't hold up in the playoffs when teams are good enough to take away option A and often B.

It doesn't matter where Russell goes or who he plays for, the results will be the same.

If it blows up at season's end, I'd be ok with trading him. I'm not married to anyone on the team coaches or players.