Why did we draft Pocic?

Anajimmc · Oct 17, 2017

Chapow":2tezulrx said:
When did we get to the point where if a late 2nd round draft pick isn't starting, and playing well, from day 1, the guy's a bust and it's a wasted draft pick?

Pocic is now 6 weeks into his very 1st NFL season. His career literally just started. He might never become a good player in the NFL or he might become a pro bowler or he might end up somewhere in between. It's just super weird that some people are ready to close the book on this guy when we're at the beginning of chapter 1. Can't we just be a little bit reasonable and give this guy a little time? Don't people realize that there is an endless list of players that didn't start from day 1, or even year 1, that went on to have good careers?

Why did we draft Pocic? Seriously? :34853_doh:

For the same reason they draft any player ever.

Thank You

SoulfishHawk · Oct 17, 2017

I have a feeling Pocic is gonna' be one hell of a lineman. He has that nasty you need. Looking forward to him taking over at one of the spots at some point.

pittpnthrs · Oct 17, 2017

Chapow":3qjwcnta said:
When did we get to the point where if a late 2nd round draft pick isn't starting, and playing well, from day 1, the guy's a bust and it's a wasted draft pick?

When our Oline became historically bad the last couple years and he cant scratch the starting lineup.

mikeak · Oct 17, 2017

Chapow":1856gvam said:
When did we get to the point where if a late 2nd round draft pick isn't starting, and playing well, from day 1, the guy's a bust and it's a wasted draft pick?

Pocic is now 6 weeks into his very 1st NFL season. His career literally just started. He might never become a good player in the NFL or he might become a pro bowler or he might end up somewhere in between. It's just super weird that some people are ready to close the book on this guy when we're at the beginning of chapter 1. Can't we just be a little bit reasonable and give this guy a little time? Don't people realize that there is an endless list of players that didn't start from day 1, or even year 1, that went on to have good careers?

Why did we draft Pocic? Seriously? :34853_doh:

For the same reason they draft any player ever.

If we were talking about WRs I would agree with you

If we were talking about MLB / DL or just about any other position I would agree with you

I do hope that even you agree that for OL considering where our players are and what we have been starting it should be an expectation that a 2nd round pick cracks the starting lineup to start the season.

I actually don't think anyone here is saying he is a bust. At least if they did I completely missed it. What we are questioning is drafting the OL player high in the draft that is a fit on the ONE spot on the OL that we had covered...... The real questioning here is about the FO decision making and Cable's decision making for training him for decent at much and not great at anything and not Pocic's abilities

kidhawk · Oct 17, 2017

mikeak":3jlmzwkm said:
I actually don't think anyone here is saying he is a bust. At least if they did I completely missed it. What we are questioning is drafting the OL player high in the draft that is a fit on the ONE spot on the OL that we had covered......

How can people assume that we had the center position covered? Britt was going into the final year of his rookie contract. There was no way to know if he'd sign a deal we could afford or would be within where the front office valued him. Sure, now we know that he did sign an extension, but that is many months after the draft.

Drafting a guy as a future need is not exactly unheard of in the NFL. Even if we didn't need him at center, he can make for great depth. Of course as with all players, we won't know if he's good or not until he sees the field, and even then, we won't really know for sure until he gets some consistent playing time.

mikeak · Oct 17, 2017

kidhawk":3qq4jvxf said:
mikeak":3qq4jvxf said:

I actually don't think anyone here is saying he is a bust. At least if they did I completely missed it. What we are questioning is drafting the OL player high in the draft that is a fit on the ONE spot on the OL that we had covered......

Click to expand...

How can people assume that we had the center position covered? Britt was going into the final year of his rookie contract. There was no way to know if he'd sign a deal we could afford or would be within where the front office valued him. Sure, now we know that he did sign an extension, but that is many months after the draft.
.

Let me re-phrase

that is a fit on the ONE spot on the OL that we had covered COMPARED TO ALL OTHER OL POSITIONS

Yes - this position was the best manned position on the OL for this season. Yes drafting for depth and drafting for the future are fantastic concepts when you have serviceable starters.

We didn't. When the draft was we had NO IDEA how Fant was going to play and we knew we had other immediate holes.

Again if you drafted for future at any other position everyone is quiet. I just find it interesting supporting drafting a backup when we are in year 3 of OL dumpster fire

chris98251 · Oct 17, 2017

kidhawk":fig5p0np said:
mikeak":fig5p0np said:

I actually don't think anyone here is saying he is a bust. At least if they did I completely missed it. What we are questioning is drafting the OL player high in the draft that is a fit on the ONE spot on the OL that we had covered......

Click to expand...

How can people assume that we had the center position covered? Britt was going into the final year of his rookie contract. There was no way to know if he'd sign a deal we could afford or would be within where the front office valued him. Sure, now we know that he did sign an extension, but that is many months after the draft.

Drafting a guy as a future need is not exactly unheard of in the NFL. Even if we didn't need him at center, he can make for great depth. Of course as with all players, we won't know if he's good or not until he sees the field, and even then, we won't really know for sure until he gets some consistent playing time.

We drafted Hunt for future already, we had a lousy line last year and clearly needed to have it upgraded, 2nd round picks are supposed to be contributors at a minimum and a starter possibly. Also they were stating he was a Center but they thought he could start at Guard or possibly be a Tackle after we picked him.

MontanaHawk05 · Oct 17, 2017

Somewhat relevant.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/920374201201987584[/tweet]

kidhawk · Oct 17, 2017

mikeak":27sbp9ci said:
kidhawk":27sbp9ci said:

mikeak":27sbp9ci said:

I actually don't think anyone here is saying he is a bust. At least if they did I completely missed it. What we are questioning is drafting the OL player high in the draft that is a fit on the ONE spot on the OL that we had covered......

Click to expand...

How can people assume that we had the center position covered? Britt was going into the final year of his rookie contract. There was no way to know if he'd sign a deal we could afford or would be within where the front office valued him. Sure, now we know that he did sign an extension, but that is many months after the draft.
.

Click to expand...

Let me re-phrase

that is a fit on the ONE spot on the OL that we had covered COMPARED TO ALL OTHER OL POSITIONS

Yes - this position was the best manned position on the OL for this season. Yes drafting for depth and drafting for the future are fantastic concepts when you have serviceable starters.

We didn't. When the draft was we had NO IDEA how Fant was going to play and we knew we had other immediate holes.

Again if you drafted for future at any other position everyone is quiet. I just find it interesting supporting drafting a backup when we are in year 3 of OL dumpster fire

You can easily draft for the now and the future at the same time. A lot of things happen both in season and off season. Players get hurt, players don't pan out. Perhaps they felt he would compete for a starting position along the line somewhere, perhaps he might have worked out, but maybe they just didn't feel Hunt was progressing to where they needed him to be and decided to keep Pocic at Center. There are so many variables and it's so early in his first season that anyone who thinks they know anything right now are only fooling themselves.

EverydayImRusselin · Oct 17, 2017

Bobblehead":onuypfr0 said:
hawk45":onuypfr0 said:

MontanaHawk05":onuypfr0 said:

Pete and John value the offensive line less because 1) they're already overpaid throughout the league and 2) they have the most mobile QB in the league and a playbook that can protect Wilson with quick passes. If there's a team that relies less on their offensive line than the Seahawks, give me a heads up, because we've gone 67-29-1 and a playoff win every year under Wilson while consistently fielding pretty bad pass protection. That isn't underperforming. Given the value most Seahawks fans place on an offensive line, it's OVERperforming.
.

Click to expand...

We have been utterly unable to run the ball the last 1.3 seasons which coincides with them finally taking their approach to the extreme and letting Carpenter, Okung, Sweezy, and Unger all fly away to where it's all bargain-bin players.

Nobody on this board is arguing to be in the top-half of OL spending in the league. Most understand that our QB doesn't require the same amount of protection. But I'll say it again, there is a minimum threshold for OL that if it isn't met just flushes your O down the toilet.

Pete and John are learning that it's okay to value the OL less, but that they need to value it more than they have the last few years. That is how I interpret them re-upping Britt and pouring 8 mil into Joeckel's bank account in a desperate move to shore up the unit.

Click to expand...

Woud you rather spend the 4.5 million for JR Sweezy, or the 8 mil for Joeckel?

Except that's not what Sweezy's deal was. Sweezy got a 5/$32M deal and then promptly missed the entire 2016 season and was forced to renegotiate his deal to stay on TB roster.

Bobblehead · Oct 17, 2017

Sgt. Largent":2hb2xtai said:
Bobblehead":2hb2xtai said:

Woud you rather spend the 4.5 million for JR Sweezy, or the 8 mil for Joeckel?

Click to expand...

This is like asking "would you like peanut butter on your turd sandwich, or just jelly?"

The key to any position group is draft, draft and more draft. Then you fill holes through FA.

Problem is while for all the awesome scouting and drafting our FO has done at every other position group, their draft philosophy with the O-line is terrible to downright criminal.

We're certainly not alone in failing to draft quality O-lineman, it's an epidemic. But the fact that we have one of the smartest GM's in the league who continues to listen to his two coaches (Carroll and Cable) on how to draft O-lineman is what worries me.

Hey Pete and Cable, YOU'RE O-LINE PHILOSOPHY OF DRAFTING MULTI-POSITIONAL ATHLETES WITH UPSIDE IS BAD........IT'S REALLY REALLY BAD. STOP IT. NOW.

Well it's my point, why spend 8 million when 4 million got you.. who cares.

chris98251 · Oct 17, 2017

Well this will be Wilson then going forward.

You see the free sample table at the grocery store

hawk45 · Oct 17, 2017

MontanaHawk05":1jheuche said:
Somewhat relevant.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/920374201201987584[/tweet]

Katy bar the door.

Not saying Pocic would be magic at LG, I'm just lamenting the fact that our worst lineman, Rees, now doesn't even have the veteran guard next to him but rather the guy who couldn't cut it at RG: Glowinski.

Good thing we spent that 8 mil on Joeckel to sign him before Lang. Well done! No one on earth could have predicted Joeckel might miss significant time due to knee issues!

mikeak · Oct 17, 2017

hawk45":3i1wddzb said:
MontanaHawk05":3i1wddzb said:

Somewhat relevant.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/920374201201987584[/tweet]

Click to expand...

Katy bar the door.

Not saying Pocic would be magic at LG, I'm just lamenting the fact that our worst lineman, Rees, now doesn't even have the veteran guard next to him but rather the guy who couldn't cut it at RG: Glowinski.

Good thing we spent that 8 mil on Joeckel to sign him before Lang. Well done! No one on earth could have predicted Joeckel might miss significant time due to knee issues!

or that he wasn't very good before missing time

MontanaHawk05 · Oct 17, 2017

chris98251":301trz1a said:
Well this will be Wilson then going forward.

I like how everyone always pretends that this is a new thing.

MontanaHawk05 · Oct 17, 2017

mikeak":1k7o8mpb said:
hawk45":1k7o8mpb said:

MontanaHawk05":1k7o8mpb said:

Somewhat relevant.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/920374201201987584[/tweet]

Click to expand...

Katy bar the door.

Not saying Pocic would be magic at LG, I'm just lamenting the fact that our worst lineman, Rees, now doesn't even have the veteran guard next to him but rather the guy who couldn't cut it at RG: Glowinski.

Good thing we spent that 8 mil on Joeckel to sign him before Lang. Well done! No one on earth could have predicted Joeckel might miss significant time due to knee issues!

Click to expand...

or that he wasn't very good before missing time

The consensus is that he's been better than expected, especially the last two games. The injury concern is valid.

nanomoz · Oct 17, 2017

Glowinski has been really, really bad. He's too far along in his career to look so bad. Especially for a guy that's supposed to have great functional strength.

hawk45 · Oct 17, 2017

MontanaHawk05":1t52o2o8 said:
mikeak":1t52o2o8 said:

hawk45":1t52o2o8 said:

MontanaHawk05":1t52o2o8 said:

Somewhat relevant.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/gbellseattle/status/920374201201987584[/tweet]

Click to expand...

Katy bar the door.

Not saying Pocic would be magic at LG, I'm just lamenting the fact that our worst lineman, Rees, now doesn't even have the veteran guard next to him but rather the guy who couldn't cut it at RG: Glowinski.

Good thing we spent that 8 mil on Joeckel to sign him before Lang. Well done! No one on earth could have predicted Joeckel might miss significant time due to knee issues!

Click to expand...

or that he wasn't very good before missing time

Click to expand...

The consensus is that he's been better than expected, especially the last two games. The injury concern is valid.

I don't think he's arguing that Joeckel - such as he is - is better than Glowinski.

I think he's more responding to my point about signing Luke to the 8M before Lang being ill-considered. I made the point it was ill-considered because of injury history, he made the point about it being ill-considered because Joeckel wasn't close to an 8 mil guard when healthy. To which I'd probably agree.

MontanaHawk05 · Oct 17, 2017

http://www.espn.com/espn/now?nowId=21-40005753-4

One reason why the Seahawks plan to play both Mark Glowinski and Ethan Pocic on Sunday, according to offensive line coach Tom Cable, is that neither have played enough of late to be in shape for a full game.

iigakusei · Oct 17, 2017

Getting quotes from Seahawks coaches is like asking the cat. Entertaining occasionally but completely useless.

Why did we draft Pocic?

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