Three Biggest Issues Right Now?

[LTH]

There seems to be more motion than logic overall in this thread. I'll try and ignore the frustrations of the last few weeks, from what I see:

1 LB
It looks to me like LB play is absolutely killing our D. Awful against the pass and poor against the run.
While our S play has been poor I think they're caught between being 'deeper than the deepest' and having to come up and cover the short/intermediate routes because our LBs can't cover.

Especially with Shanny and McVay in our div who want to attack the middle of the field this is a brutal weakness.

I still think Jamal was brought in to be a tbis LB/S specifically to own that area, but he's too banged up to play closer to the line an too poor in coverage to be a pure S.

2. Scheme/Approach
Other coaches seem to come up with game plans to exploit our weaknesses, wheras we seem to keep lining up with a "they have to deal with us" approach.

We also don't seem to be utilising our roster well at all. If LBs are killing us but we have a bevvy of DBs who like to play fast and aggressive (Spoon, Brown, Bryant, etc) we should change our scheme to get thm on the field more. Same on O, we have a lot of talent at TE what we're just wasting trying to force the ball to DK and JSN.

I can't really call out the DC/OC. Our LB/S limitations make it difficult for me to really judge Hurtt. Waldron seems to come up with some great drives, and then reverts to predictable/vanilla drives for long periods and I have no idea why.

3. Interior OL
We can't control the inner LOS which forces us into passing plays way to often. Not sure what happened to Lewis, he looked great of a rookie. Our C seemed to start the season strong but is fading fast.

The O line has had 2 games with the starting players playing together all year. That lack of continuity gives the advantage to teams that have been healthy on the O line. I think they are going to get better as the learn to play together but it might be to late.

I think our safeties are not playing to expectation and I think Wagner is older and is not as good against the pass... that's evident in the late part of the season although I thought Brooks was playing well.

So I agree with your assessment

LTH

 

[hoxrox]

3 of the last 4 losses were against teams that have better talent than the Seahawks. The Seahawks have been completely decimated by injury, there has been 10 different O line combinations up to now ... no offensive line continuity. but yet your going to say oh it's Carroll, its coaching , it's scheme .... no that's not the case some times an apple is just an apple...but if you want to make it into something bigger because your not smart enough to see what's happening by all means do it ... yeah your spoiled... you can't see that sometimes teams have so much adversity that they can't over come it...

If you're just citing injuries, you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Sure maybe a healthy Cross and Lucas makes them 1-2 wins better, but how do you explain not using TEs to help with protection and run blocking more? What happened to the effective Lions game plan that was abandoned in subsequent games this season?

Answer: bad coaching / scheme.

Sure maybe a healthy Nwosu, makes the pass rush and rush defense better, but Dre Jones was supposed to fill this role. He was paid top dollar to make an impact. Why is Dre Jones being used in coverage?

Answer: bad coaching / scheme.

These are just two examples. There are many more that cannot be rationalized with the injury excuse.

 

[LTH]

Agreed with what you said about Geno. He is better than Lock, but not by the same margin as Rodgers is over his backup. That was my point, that it's not so much the quality of player you lose so much as it is the difference between him and his replacement.

What I am objecting to is the way you are putting the part I highlighted in bold. It makes it sound as if injuries are the only reason why we lost 4 in a row.

I also feel that the talent gap between us and the Niners is much wider than you're willing to admit. The results of the games over the past two years speaks for itself.

I addressed the injury situation with Adams in a couple other threads. If he's injured, he sure is getting one helluva lot of snaps. In the past 4 games, he's missed just one defensive snap. And even prior to his spat of injuries, he never was very fast and a liability in coverage. Now, all of a sudden, it's his injuries that are keeping him from playing at even an average level of play? Sorry, not buying it.

Yes, our losing Nwosu was huge. So was the Niners losing Arik Armstead. But it didn't seem to hurt them much. They still jerked us around like a rag doll.

I'm not making excuses for as i said he is playing below expectation the question is why? I do think his knee is slowing him down how could it not? He is rehabbing from major knee surgery. But there are also other issues . I have no problem with replacing him with Bryant or at least subbing in Bryant. Maybe that's what needs to happen is use the two players according to their strengths.. Adams did miss the first 2 or 3 games and missed another game as well it was sometime during the 2nd Rams game and the last 49er game.

The other thing is I'm not considering what happen last year...I don't think that way. what happened last year was last year in my mind it... doesn't have anything to do with what's happening this year. So whe I'm looking at talent gap between the niners and the Hawks that's probably why you think I don't recognize what happen last year because I don't it was a completely different year with different players and coaches.

LTH

 

[LTH]

If you're just citing injuries, you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Sure maybe a healthy Cross and Lucas makes them 1-2 wins better, but how do you explain not using TEs to help with protection and run blocking more? What happened to the effective Lions game plan that was abandoned in subsequent games this season?

Answer: bad coaching / scheme.

Sure maybe a healthy Nwosu, makes the pass rush and rush defense better, but Dre Jones was supposed to fill this role. He was paid top dollar to make an impact. Why is Dre Jones being used in coverage?

Answer: bad coaching / scheme.

These are just two examples. There are many more that cannot be rationalized with the injury excuse.

There is a certain amount of sense to what you are saying looking in from the out side. The problem I have with that is we don't know what the plan is on any given game. We are not in the meetings we are all looking in from the out side. There are factors that we don't understand.... so I'm not fast to judge that. And maybe I'm wrong I don't know I just see it the way that I do and maybe both Carroll and Waldron get fired I don't know... maybe Carroll thinks Waldron is a good coordinator and is working with him to develope the scheme and work the inconsistencies. I am not an expert on what's going on behind the scenes...I really believe nobody else is as well...


just my humble take

LTH

 

[RiverDog]

I'm not making excuses for as i said he is playing below expectation the question is why? I do think his knee is slowing him down how could it not? He is rehabbing from major knee surgery. But there are also other issues . I have no problem with replacing him with Bryant or at least subbing in Bryant. Maybe that's what needs to happen is use the two players according to their strengths.. Adams did miss the first 2 or 3 games and missed another game as well it was sometime during the 2nd Rams game and the last 49er game.

As I said, if Adams was that adversely affected by his injuries, he wouldn't have played all but one snap in the last four straight games. If he is, then Pete is a fool as playing him that hard is bound to aggravate his injury.

IMO the reason why Adams is playing below expectations is because the expectations are too high. He wasn't that good in the first place, a one trick pony that offenses have long since figured out.

The other thing is I'm not considering what happen last year...I don't think that way. what happened last year was last year in my mind it... doesn't have anything to do with what's happening this year. So whe I'm looking at talent gap between the niners and the Hawks that's probably why you think I don't recognize what happen last year because I don't it was a completely different year with different players and coaches.

LTH

It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with this season? The two rosters are about 75%-80% as they were last season and both teams had the same coaching staff. But if it helps your narrative to ignore last season's results, then by all means, rationalize it away.

 

[hinton]

The O line has had 2 games with the starting players playing together all year. That lack of continuity gives the advantage to teams that have been healthy on the O line. I think they are going to get better as the learn to play together but it might be to late.

I think our safeties are not playing to expectation and I think Wagner is older and is not as good against the pass... that's evident in the late part of the season although I thought Brooks was playing well.

So I agree with your assessment

LTH

Yeah our OL has had a rough time with injuries. My concern here is I think this will be part of the new-norm across the NFL as new DL players become more freak athletes but OL players seem to be staying broadly similar - not sure how we fix this other than having a deep pool of OL players that are interchangeable - I'm not sure expecting a line of 5 to be consistent moving forwards is realistic.

I wanna like Brooks but too often he just seems to get caught up in the wash and end up being a non-factor in the play. I've got nothing but respect for Bobby but he's been hard to watch at points this year.

It feels like we have a lot of talent on D (and the DL is quietly having a pretty good year) but we have such a big weakness across the middle that we can't take advantage.

 

[LTH]

It doesn't have ANYTHING to do with this season? The two rosters are about 75%-80% as they were last season and both teams had the same coaching staff. But if it helps your narrative to ignore last season's results, then by all means, rationalize it away.

Your wrong there are only 2 players that started on last year's D that are starting on this year's D Diggs and Woolen.

I m not going to look it up but I can think of three coaches that are different I'm sure there is more.. the recievers coach, the Qb Coach and Desi is gone... you didn't look it up.

You did say roster but I'm looking at the starting units I'm not going to do the math to figure out the percentage.

 

[LTH]

Yeah our OL has had a rough time with injuries. My concern here is I think this will be part of the new-norm across the NFL as new DL players become more freak athletes but OL players seem to be staying broadly similar - not sure how we fix this other than having a deep pool of OL players that are interchangeable - I'm not sure expecting a line of 5 to be consistent moving forwards is realistic.

I wanna like Brooks but too often he just seems to get caught up in the wash and end up being a non-factor in the play. I've got nothing but respect for Bobby but he's been hard to watch at points this year.

It feels like we have a lot of talent on D (and the DL is quietly having a pretty good year) but we have such a big weakness across the middle that we can't take advantage.

There are some issues on this team that we don't know about. Whether it's in the locker room or I just don't know. But they are working through some stuff.

I just think that O line needs to play together more. That's just my opinion
I am NOT an expert on NFL football un like some think that they are..I just see it the way I see it. Maybe I'm wrong I don't know.



LTH

 

[hinton]

There are some issues on this team that we don't know about. Whether it's in the locker room or I just don't know. But they are working through some stuff.

I just think that O line needs to play together more. That's just my opinion
I am NOT an expert on NFL football un like some think that they are..I just see it the way I see it. Maybe I'm wrong I don't know.



LTH

I hope it's experience, I'm more concerned its lack of talent in the interior OL.

On the plus side both our tackles look legit - which are far obviously harder positions to find than the interior, so perhaps with a bit more playing time and maybe an off-season addition we'll have a top 10 OL

 

[LTH]

If you're just citing injuries, you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Sure maybe a healthy Cross and Lucas makes them 1-2 wins better, but how do you explain not using TEs to help with protection and run blocking more? What happened to the effective Lions game plan that was abandoned in subsequent games this season?

Answer: bad coaching / scheme.

Sure maybe a healthy Nwosu, makes the pass rush and rush defense better, but Dre Jones was supposed to fill this role. He was paid top dollar to make an impact. Why is Dre Jones being used in coverage?

Answer: bad coaching / scheme.

These are just two examples. There are many more that cannot be rationalized with the injury excuse.

Dude I'm sure there are other issues.. I just think injury has been a really tough thing for this team to over come. It's definitely affected the performance of this team. On this thread it was more Riverdog and I wrestling over the injury situation and how much it affects this team

LTH

 

[LTH]

I hope it's experience, I'm more concerned its lack of talent in the interior OL.

On the plus side both our tackles look legit - which are far obviously harder positions to find than the interior, so perhaps with a bit more playing time and maybe an off-season addition we'll have a top 10 OL

Well... it is experience woth Bradford, cross and Lucas...I don't think it's coaching because I believe Andy Dickerson is a good coach. I tend to think it's continuity... but it could very well be talent. To be able to pick up blitzes and stunts they have to work together that's part of it. I guess we will find out if they keep our left guard... for some reason I can't remember his name.

 

[Seahawker]

 

[LTH]

I hope it's experience, I'm more concerned its lack of talent in the interior OL.

On the plus side both our tackles look legit - which are far obviously harder positions to find than the interior, so perhaps with a bit more playing time and maybe an off-season addition we'll have a top 10 OL

I think it's going to be interesting to see if the Hawks resign Lewis...that will say a lot

LTH

 

[RiverDog]

Your wrong there are only 2 players that started on last year's D that are starting on this year's D Diggs and Woolen.

So you don't consider Adams, Brooks, Jackson, Bryant, et al as starters from last season? How about Darrell Taylor or Boye Mafe? What about Mario Edwards and Bryan Mone? And why stop with starters? Were they not major contributors?

I m not going to look it up but I can think of three coaches that are different I'm sure there is more.. the recievers coach, the Qb Coach and Desi is gone... you didn't look it up.

You did say roster but I'm looking at the starting units I'm not going to do the math to figure out the percentage.

You're right, I did say roster as it's a more accurate term to describe turnover. But I will admit that my 75% number on coaches is probably wrong. However, the major ones, ie the head coach and offensive/defensive/special teams coordinators are the same. I probably should have been more explicit.

 

[LTH]

So you don't consider Adams, Brooks, Jackson, Bryant, et al as starters from last season? How about Darrell Taylor or Boye Mafe? What about Mario Edwards and Bryan Mone?

You're right, I did say roster. But I will admit that my 75% number on coaches is probably wrong. However, the major ones, ie the head coach and offensive/defensive/special teams coordinators are the same.

Adams didn't play last year maybe 1/4 of a quarter of the first game. Taylor didn't start. Bryant didn't start this year and Brooks was hurt last year and missed almost the whole season due to his knee
Ok Forgot about Mafe.Mario Edward's was signed this year.

LTH

 

[RiverDog]

Adams didn't play last year maybe 1/4 of a quarter of the first game. Taylor didn't start. Bryant didn't start this year and Brooks was hurt last year and missed almost the whole season due to his knee
Ok Forgot about Mafe.Mario Edward's was signed this year.

LTH

Well, the point is that I didn't say starters, I said roster.

But be that as it may. It's a silly thing to argue about. If you want to ignore last season's results, then fine. We'll just count this year's two ass kicking's.

 

[LTH]

Well, the point is that I didn't say starters, I said roster.

But be that as it may. It's a silly thing to argue about. If you want to ignore last season's results, then fine. We'll just count this year's two ass kicking's.

I'm not trying to argue with you... we just look at things differently. I don't think this year's success has ANYTHING to do with last year. I'm not sure that I understand why you seem to think differently. Not trying to put you down, I just don't understand.

 

[James in PA]

1. Peter
2. Clay
3. Carroll

 

[SeAhAwKeR4life]

Ineffective on offense
Ineffective on Defense
6-7 losing record.

 

[LTH]

If you're just citing injuries, you're not seeing the forest for the trees.

Sure maybe a healthy Cross and Lucas makes them 1-2 wins better, but how do you explain not using TEs to help with protection and run blocking more? What happened to the effective Lions game plan that was abandoned in subsequent games this season?

Answer: bad coaching / scheme.

Sure maybe a healthy Nwosu, makes the pass rush and rush defense better, but Dre Jones was supposed to fill this role. He was paid top dollar to make an impact. Why is Dre Jones being used in coverage?

Answer: bad coaching / scheme.

These are just two examples. There are many more that cannot be rationalized with the injury excuse.

I keep thinking about what you are saying and I agree that there are some issues but I just don't see it to the degree that your saying and I'm looking at it.

The Niners are playing at another level. Dallas is a very good team almost but not as quite good as the Niners.

I just think the Seahawks are not as bad as what people think.

They lost a really tough one to the Rams and I have to think if Geno would have not gotten Hurt they would have won that one. But he did get hurt and they lost.vthat game hurt! No question about that.

Then the three game slide against the Niners and cowboys.

Let's see how they finish the season before we throw anybody under the buss they still have a chance to work out their issues.


That 4 game slide really threw the fan base in the toilet big time. I think it made the Hawks look worse than they are.

I really believe the Hawks are going to pull this season out. How far will they go in the playoffs IF they make the playoffs? I don't know we will just have to see what the team looks like at that time.

The one thing I know is this 4 game slide has focused Carroll kinda slapped him in the head...

Game against Philly is KEY... let's see what they look like hopefully Geno is backx I think the line is healthy for the last 2 games... walker is healthy and the D is reasonably healthy...

Try to keep your mind open cause I think it's going to be different vs Philly and beyond and if I'm wrong you can flush my ass down the toilet but I don't think I'm wrong.

LTH