Why no Kaepernick designed runs?

RiverDog · Nov 28, 2014

I'd like to hear from some of the Niners fans frequenting this board as it's something I kept asking myself all night.

Kaepernick's biggest asset is unquestionably his legs (it sure isn't his head). With due apologies to Russell, he's the best running quarterback in the league and his running was the one thing that kept their SB hopes alive the last time we faced them in the NFCCG.

But unless I missed something, I didn't see one sweep with him carrying, one QB draw, and no read options with him keeping, just a couple of scrambles on broken plays. His stat line from last night shows that he had 3 carries for 17 yards. In last season's NFCCG, he had 153 yards on 11 carries. Did our defense take all those plays away or was Harbaugh/Roman being stubborn and forcing him to develop his pocket passing skills?

BirdsCommaAngry · Nov 28, 2014

Yeah, that was strange. Clearly the 9ers should fire Bevell.

NINEster · Nov 28, 2014

Trying to make him a pocket passer.

I was hoping for this game alone they'd allow him to run it a bit, but alas that was not the case.

Steve Young preached that mobile QBs have to be able to do it from the pocket to be legit. I'd hope that's the plan.

CurryStopstheRuns · Nov 28, 2014

NINEster":1zhagzep said:
Trying to make him a pocket passer.

I was hoping for this game alone they'd allow him to run it a bit, but alas that was not the case.

Steve Young preached that mobile QBs have to be able to do it from the pocket to be legit. I'd hope that's the plan.

At some point the niners will have to realize that kaepernick is what he is, and that is not a pocket passer.

hawksfansinceday1 · Nov 28, 2014

Collinsworth mentioned several times that the Hawks were spying him all night long. I'm sure Pete and Quinn learned some valuable lessons in the first half of the NFCCG last year cuz we shut him down from running in the 2nd half of that game and again last night. I know last year we went to a zone to keep a spy available. Didn't appear to me that was the case last night as I thought we were in man coverage. I'm guessing our front four did a really good job of staying in their rush lanes and that plus having a spy combined to make it so that when he was flushed, there wasn't a lot of green in front of him.

uncle fester · Nov 28, 2014

I thought they'd take the reins off him in the 4th when the game was sliding away from them.

TXHawk · Nov 28, 2014

CurryStopstheRuns":fdj6sjy3 said:
NINEster":fdj6sjy3 said:

Trying to make him a pocket passer.

I was hoping for this game alone they'd allow him to run it a bit, but alas that was not the case.

Steve Young preached that mobile QBs have to be able to do it from the pocket to be legit. I'd hope that's the plan.

Click to expand...

At some point the niners will have to realize that kaepernick is what he is, and that is not a pocket passer.

Sometimes it feels like NFL coaches are trying to pound square pegs into round holes in trying to turn players like Kaepernick and RG3 into pocket passers. Coming from pistol and spread offenses in college where they relied on their atheticism to beat defenses they never developed the mechanics or ability to read defenses required to be a pocket passer and the learning process has been agonizing for both. With spread offenses so prevalant in college that's going to continue to be a problem. Some spread QBs may be able to adjust to the pro game but many won't. It's no coicidence that the best of the young QBs (Wilson, Luck, and Tannehill) all came from pro-style college offenses and had already developed solid mechanics prior to coming into the league.

RiverDog · Nov 28, 2014

hawksfansinceday1":3ndwdazs said:
Collinsworth mentioned several times that the Hawks were spying him all night long. I'm sure Pete and Quinn learned some valuable lessons in the first half of the NFCCG last year cuz we shut him down from running in the 2nd half of that game and again last night. I know last year we went to a zone to keep a spy available. Didn't appear to me that was the case last night as I thought we were in man coverage. I'm guessing our front four did a really good job of staying in their rush lanes and that plus having a spy combined to make it so that when he was flushed, there wasn't a lot of green in front of him.

Yea, and we were crowding the box on early downs, daring them to pass. I'm sure that the way we went after them had a major influence on their play calling.

But even so, not even to attempt something like a read option keeper when it was never more than a two score game and when nothing else was going right for them? Three carries for 16 yards? Next to Wilson, Kaep has the most rushing yards for a quarterback this season. Unless he was hurt, it simply defies logic why they didn't at least try to get him on the edge a couple of times. The Niner offense looked very unimaginative.

Scottemojo · Nov 28, 2014

San Fran did not sign Stevie and Lloyd and Boldin so they can block for Kaepernick. They only view him running as a last resort.

Kaep might have sucked donkey dong last night when throwing, but he is doing a far better job than he did in the past of keeping his eyes down field while scrambling. Also, Seattle had spies on him on quite a few plays.

hawksfansinceday1 · Nov 28, 2014

RiverDog":z5t2f1n4 said:
hawksfansinceday1":z5t2f1n4 said:

Collinsworth mentioned several times that the Hawks were spying him all night long. I'm sure Pete and Quinn learned some valuable lessons in the first half of the NFCCG last year cuz we shut him down from running in the 2nd half of that game and again last night. I know last year we went to a zone to keep a spy available. Didn't appear to me that was the case last night as I thought we were in man coverage. I'm guessing our front four did a really good job of staying in their rush lanes and that plus having a spy combined to make it so that when he was flushed, there wasn't a lot of green in front of him.

Click to expand...

Yea, and we were crowding the box on early downs, daring them to pass. I'm sure that the way we went after them had a major influence on their play calling.

But even so, not even to attempt something like a read option keeper when it was never more than a two score game and when nothing else was going right for them? Three carries for 16 yards? Next to Wilson, Kaep has the most rushing yards for a quarterback this season. Unless he was hurt, it simply defies logic why they didn't at least try to get him on the edge a couple of times. The Niner offense looked very unimaginative.

And I can't argue that. No matter how effective our design was, they really should've tried something, anything with his legs. Agree that to not do so is very curious.

Scottemojo":z5t2f1n4 said:
San Fran did not sign Stevie and Lloyd and Boldin so they can block for Kaepernick. They only view him running as a last resort.

Kaep might have sucked donkey dong last night when throwing, but he is doing a far better job than he did in the past of keeping his eyes down field while scrambling. Also, Seattle had spies on him on quite a few plays.

He is doing a better job at that but his accuracy is still questionable and his decision making is utter shite.

So Scott, do you think this is a case of the Whiners trying to fit a round peg in a square hole as another poster put it referring to Kraep and Griffin in particular and their running ability far outshining more typical NFL pocket skills? Or do you think the league's d-coordinators have caught up with the 'runners' and are defending their running and thus highlighting their lack of pocket skills entering the NFL?

olyfan63 · Nov 28, 2014

Scottemojo":37klhnd3 said:
San Fran did not sign Stevie and Lloyd and Boldin so they can block for Kaepernick. They only view him running as a last resort.

Kaep might have sucked donkey dong last night when throwing, but he is doing a far better job than he did in the past of keeping his eyes down field while scrambling. Also, Seattle had spies on him on quite a few plays.

Bruce Irvin is the Kaep-Killer Spy. I felt Irvin's spying presence was the reason "The Tip" happened instead of Kaep running on that play. Kaep knows who Irvin is and knows he can't outrun him.

So a big part of the Kaep-run-limiting credit goes to the Seahawks scheme. But still, I would have expected the Niners to run him a bit more to test it. Bet we see more of that when Niners come to the CLink.

lvnginhwktwn · Nov 28, 2014

Fire Roman, need OC that knows how to adjust, has creativity, and the ability to mold what he's given.

Popeyejones · Nov 28, 2014

I think the biggest reason has for some reason gone unmentioned so far:

It has been well over a month since any of the designed runs they've called for him have been effective. As far as last night goes, the lack of designed runs isn't any different than it has been for the 9ers.

As a Hawks fan that probably seems crazy given that Wilson has been continually gashing people on the read/option, but for better or for worse, that just hasn't been part of the 9ers offense any time recently.

For the last long while the vast, vast majority of Kap's rushing yards of late have come through tucking the ball down between the tackles after stepping up in the pocket if everyone is still covered. The Hawks were spying him last night (as they should be) so he wasn't doing that either.

I'm hoping that eventually Kap has an average day for himself against the Hawks, as to date, if Hawks fans are just watching Hawks games, jeez I understand why you guys think he's an absolutely atrocious quarterback who can only run. :lol:

pehawk · Nov 28, 2014

Kaps runs vs Seattle in the NFCCG we're just good reactions by Kap. The Seahawks shaded everything left in that regard, because, well, Kap runs about 99% of the time to his left. Kap recognized and exploited that in the Seahawks defense in the 1st half of the game. He made them pay for cheating left.

In general running QB's don't do well vs Pete's defense AVY (after Vince Young). It's overblown to say he should've ran more vs Seattle last night. He made hay because the Seahawks defense was cheating in one particular direction.

Edit: I may have the right and left swapped, but that's what and why the runs NFCCG used to happen. It was an anomaly.

Spin Doctor · Nov 28, 2014

They didn't use Kaepernick in the running game because they couldn't. We had somebody spying him, usually Bennett. Our edge rushers, Irvin and Avril were playing disciplined football. They're primary goal was to keep Kaepernick within the confines of the pocket. Not only that, but Hill, and Bennett caused havoc on the inside. There was no where that Kaepernick could have gone to. Whenever the Niners tried misdirection plays such as screens and counters Wagner, and Chancellor would be there to greet them.

olyfan63 · Nov 29, 2014

Popeyejones":2c4dah55 said:
...
if Hawks fans are just watching Hawks games, jeez I understand why you guys think he's an absolutely atrocious quarterback who can only run. :lol:

Actually I remember that playoff game against Green Bay a couple years ago where Kaep singlehandedly sliced and diced Green Bay into oblivion with his running.

olyfan63 · Nov 29, 2014

lvnginhwktwn":8kblj5t7 said:
Fire Roman, need OC that knows how to adjust, has creativity, and the ability to mold what he's given.

So I get to be the first to say, swap Bevell in for Roman in that sentence. That would capture the substance of half the posts here after a Seahawks loss.

"Fire Bevell, we need an OC that knows how to adjust, has creativity, and the ability to mold what he's given."

On second thought, I think it's time for a bubble screen to Bryan Walters. There's no way our opponent is expecting this right now..

Roman got nearly the exact same result vs. the Seattle defense that Bruce Arians team did.

RiverDog · Nov 29, 2014

Popeyejones":35mfchwa said:
I think the biggest reason has for some reason gone unmentioned so far:

It has been well over a month since any of the designed runs they've called for him have been effective. As far as last night goes, the lack of designed runs isn't any different than it has been for the 9ers.

As a Hawks fan that probably seems crazy given that Wilson has been continually gashing people on the read/option, but for better or for worse, that just hasn't been part of the 9ers offense any time recently.

For the last long while the vast, vast majority of Kap's rushing yards of late have come through tucking the ball down between the tackles after stepping up in the pocket if everyone is still covered. The Hawks were spying him last night (as they should be) so he wasn't doing that either.

I'm hoping that eventually Kap has an average day for himself against the Hawks, as to date, if Hawks fans are just watching Hawks games, jeez I understand why you guys think he's an absolutely atrocious quarterback who can only run. :lol:

I understand all that. Even so, it is amazing to me that they didn't at least try to get something going by trying to get Kaep out on the edge. He's a dangerous weapon that they didn't even try to exploit, and being behind most of the night with him not throwing the ball well makes their keeping him confined to the stable in a critical game like this very questionable. If I were a Niners fan, I'd be upset.

Popeyejones · Nov 29, 2014

RiverDog":2wwk9sgv said:
Popeyejones":2wwk9sgv said:

I think the biggest reason has for some reason gone unmentioned so far:

It has been well over a month since any of the designed runs they've called for him have been effective. As far as last night goes, the lack of designed runs isn't any different than it has been for the 9ers.

As a Hawks fan that probably seems crazy given that Wilson has been continually gashing people on the read/option, but for better or for worse, that just hasn't been part of the 9ers offense any time recently.

For the last long while the vast, vast majority of Kap's rushing yards of late have come through tucking the ball down between the tackles after stepping up in the pocket if everyone is still covered. The Hawks were spying him last night (as they should be) so he wasn't doing that either.

I'm hoping that eventually Kap has an average day for himself against the Hawks, as to date, if Hawks fans are just watching Hawks games, jeez I understand why you guys think he's an absolutely atrocious quarterback who can only run. :lol:

Click to expand...

I understand all that. Even so, it is amazing to me that they didn't at least try to get something going by trying to get Kaep out on the edge. He's a dangerous weapon that they didn't even try to exploit, and being behind most of the night with him not throwing the ball well makes their keeping him confined to the stable in a critical game like this very questionable. If I were a Niners fan, I'd be upset.

Yeah, I guess personally I'm just not really upset about it because 1) it hasn't been working anyway, 2) the Hawks were game planning to stop it anyway, and 3) it's way, way down the list of offensive problems/things that worry me about the 9ers offense in its current iteration.

RiverDog · Nov 29, 2014

Popeyejones":1fwayoel said:
Yeah, I guess personally I'm just not really upset about it because 1) it hasn't been working anyway, 2) the Hawks were game planning to stop it anyway, and 3) it's way, way down the list of offensive problems/things that worry me about the 9ers offense in its current iteration.

Good points. I just thought it strange. That was a pivotal game for the Niners, and I would have thought they would have pulled out all the stops, and being that it was Week 13, I would have figured that the playbook would have grown by quite a bit. Their offense did not look very creative at all, most was just standard stuff out of the textbook. If I were you guys, I'd be looking for another OC.

Why no Kaepernick designed runs?

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

Well-known member

New member

Well-known member

Active member

Active member

Well-known member

New member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Active member

Well-known member

Similar threads