Next week the what ifs...are over.

Everyone assumes that the handoff to Lynch was going to be a gimme TD. But what if...he had fumbled it at the 1 yard line. We'd still be grumbling about it..why not a pass. I'm at peace with the call and the outcome. Ready for SB 50.

jake206":2b5ltr16 said:

Everyone assumes that the handoff to Lynch was going to be a gimme TD. But what if...he had fumbled it at the 1 yard line. We'd still be grumbling about it..why not a pass. I'm at peace with the call and the outcome. Ready for SB 50.

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Oh, hell no. People would still be disappointed, if that unlikely event occurred, but no way would anyone be complaining about not passing at the one-yard line. Get real.

jake206":3ohx7amk said:

Everyone assumes that the handoff to Lynch was going to be a gimme TD. But what if...he had fumbled it at the 1 yard line. We'd still be grumbling about it..why not a pass. I'm at peace with the call and the outcome. Ready for SB 50.

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I'm with you Jake. It's time to put that in the past and use it as fuel for 50!!!

hawknation2015":3kb1mzas said:

Oh, hell no. People would still be disappointed, if that unlikely event occurred, but no way would anyone be complaining about not passing at the one-yard line. Get real.

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I beg to differ. My point being that second guessing is second nature. If it was a failed decision, its easy to wonder about the other options. But on to season 2015-16. :th2thumbs:

hawknation2015":1ezjlc25 said:

jake206":1ezjlc25 said:

Everyone assumes that the handoff to Lynch was going to be a gimme TD. But what if...he had fumbled it at the 1 yard line. We'd still be grumbling about it..why not a pass. I'm at peace with the call and the outcome. Ready for SB 50.

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Oh, hell no. People would still be disappointed, if that unlikely event occurred, but no way would anyone be complaining about not passing at the one-yard line. Get real.

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THIS!

jake206":3c2p3f80 said:

hawknation2015":3c2p3f80 said:

Oh, hell no. People would still be disappointed, if that unlikely event occurred, but no way would anyone be complaining about not passing at the one-yard line. Get real.

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I beg to differ. My point being that second guessing is second nature. If it was a failed decision, its easy to wonder about the other options. But on to season 2015-16. :th2thumbs:

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JHO, but I don't think that opinion deserved its own thread.

I can tell you I would not be second guessing the decision if they had run the ball on the one-yard line.

a run was the only play to call...not over it but its done with. will see what this season brings with all the turmoil this offseason.

hawknation2015":3gzh959n said:

jake206":3gzh959n said:

Everyone assumes that the handoff to Lynch was going to be a gimme TD. But what if...he had fumbled it at the 1 yard line. We'd still be grumbling about it..why not a pass. I'm at peace with the call and the outcome. Ready for SB 50.

Click to expand...

Oh, hell no. People would still be disappointed, if that unlikely event occurred, but no way would anyone be complaining about not passing at the one-yard line. Get real.

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Isn't this an absurd line of thinking, though? Kick me in the balls, but do it with your heel not your toe! A turnover is a turnover. A TD is a TD. It's sort of insane how people torture themselves over how something happened. Either way, New England made one more play than Seattle. Game over.

Go back through the last three seasons including the playoffs. You'll find that in goal-line situations, it was Marshawn who turned the ball over in multiple situations, not the passing game. Not to say we got the call right, but to say one option was fool-proof while the other was doomed for failure is just unfounded and unproductive.

DavidSeven":2adc76nh said:

hawknation2015":2adc76nh said:

jake206":2adc76nh said:

Everyone assumes that the handoff to Lynch was going to be a gimme TD. But what if...he had fumbled it at the 1 yard line. We'd still be grumbling about it..why not a pass. I'm at peace with the call and the outcome. Ready for SB 50.

Click to expand...

Oh, hell no. People would still be disappointed, if that unlikely event occurred, but no way would anyone be complaining about not passing at the one-yard line. Get real.

Click to expand...

Isn't this an absurd line of thinking, though? Kick me in the balls, but do it with your heel not your toe! A turnover is a turnover. A TD is a TD. It's sort of insane how people torture themselves over how something happened. Either way, New England made one more play than Seattle. Game over.

Go back through the last three seasons including the playoffs. You'll find that in goal-line situations, it was Marshawn who turned the ball over in multiple situations, not the passing game. Not to say we got the call right, but to say one option was fool-proof while the other was doomed for failure is just fabrication and unproductive.

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Thanks David. That's a point I was trying to make in another thread in responding to Lockette's vow that if in the same exact scenario in a future Super Bowl, he and Russell would make it work this time. Perhaps we would run, perhaps we would throw for glory if put in the same scenario. Who knows? Every circumstance is different. As a fan, you have to trust in your coaches to know the personnel you're up against and put our players in the best position to win.

Siouxhawk":1vkeu4p1 said:

jake206":1vkeu4p1 said:

Everyone assumes that the handoff to Lynch was going to be a gimme TD. But what if...he had fumbled it at the 1 yard line. We'd still be grumbling about it..why not a pass. I'm at peace with the call and the outcome. Ready for SB 50.

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I'm with you Jake. It's time to put that in the past and use it as fuel for 50!!!

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Like you think that isn't exactly what's going to happen? When you think about it this team must be PISSED and virtually set to send some shock and awe around the league this year. Superbowl 50 on the west coast in your hated rival's home? It's like a Cinderella story in the making.

DavidSeven":316iprvh said:

hawknation2015":316iprvh said:

jake206":316iprvh said:

Everyone assumes that the handoff to Lynch was going to be a gimme TD. But what if...he had fumbled it at the 1 yard line. We'd still be grumbling about it..why not a pass. I'm at peace with the call and the outcome. Ready for SB 50.

Click to expand...

Oh, hell no. People would still be disappointed, if that unlikely event occurred, but no way would anyone be complaining about not passing at the one-yard line. Get real.

Click to expand...

Isn't this an absurd line of thinking, though? Kick me in the balls, but do it with your heel not your toe! A turnover is a turnover. A TD is a TD. It's sort of insane how people torture themselves over how something happened. Either way, New England made one more play than Seattle. Game over.

Go back through the last three seasons including the playoffs. You'll find that in goal-line situations, it was Marshawn who turned the ball over in multiple situations, not the passing game. Not to say we got the call right, but to say one option was fool-proof while the other was doomed for failure is just unfounded and unproductive.

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The disappointment would be the same, but there would be no anger over a common sense decision. Rather, some anger would probably be directed at Marshawn, in this hypothetical, for losing the game with a rare fumble.

"You'll find that in goal-line situations, it was Marshawn who turned the ball over in multiple situations, not the passing game."

Please provide a statistic for that, Dave, because I don't recall that happening last season . . . maybe you can provide a statistic for previous seasons.

Marshawn had four total fumbles last year, in the playoffs and regular season, and two of those were recovered by the opposition. Both of the fumbles that were recovered by the opposition occurred on pass plays. NONE of Lynch's fumbles last season occurred in the red zone -- the area between the goal line and the 20-yard line.

If you include all four fumbles (two of which were on pass plays), that means Marshawn fumbled the ball only once every 90.0 rushes and receptions. If you include only fumbles that occurred on running plays, that number improves to 171.5 rushes per fumble. Meanwhile, zero of Marshawn's rushing attempts resulted in a lost fumble.

Now, let's compare that to Wilson, who had 12 INTs on 524 passing attempts in the regular season and playoffs. That is 43.7 passing attempts per INT. Wilson also had 13 fumbles last season, but I won't bother to include those, because none of those were lost and some of them occurred on scrambles.

Needless to say, a 0.58% chance of fumbling by Marshawn is a hell of a lot better than a 2.3% chance of an INT by Wilson. Wilson is nearly four times more likely to throw an INT than Marshawn is to fumble on a rushing attempt.

The risk of a turnover -- four times more likely -- was only one consideration here. The other is the probability of success. When you are on the one-yard line, and your best player is a bruising RB, there should be no question.

I applaud those who can turn attention to the "quest for SB 50" but we were one play from being the first back to back in over 20 years. Admittedly, our defense giving up a 10 pt lead was a major contributor, but we lost on a play call that only can be sugar coated by claiming the defense made a great play.

It's tough to get pumped for SB 50 when we are 19 games away from it but were 1 yard from SB 49. And what blows is we lost on a questionable play call at best. If Marshawn fumbled there, I would have been disappointed, but not angry like I am with the actual finish.

NJlargent":3fres4yh said:

I applaud those who can turn attention to the "quest for SB 50" but we were one play from being the first back to back in over 20 years. Admittedly, our defense giving up a 10 pt lead was a major contributor, but we lost on a play call that only can be sugar coated by claiming the defense made a great play.

It's tough to get pumped for SB 50 when we are 19 games away from it but were 1 yard from SB 49. And what blows is we lost on a questionable play call at best. If Marshawn fumbled there, I would have been disappointed, but not angry like I am with the actual finish.

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And if Lockette hangs on and scores a TD, you're equally ecstatic. Get over it. Fuel for 50.

Siouxhawk":19slq5os said:

NJlargent":19slq5os said:

I applaud those who can turn attention to the "quest for SB 50" but we were one play from being the first back to back in over 20 years. Admittedly, our defense giving up a 10 pt lead was a major contributor, but we lost on a play call that only can be sugar coated by claiming the defense made a great play.

It's tough to get pumped for SB 50 when we are 19 games away from it but were 1 yard from SB 49. And what blows is we lost on a questionable play call at best. If Marshawn fumbled there, I would have been disappointed, but not angry like I am with the actual finish.

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And if Lockette hangs on and scores a TD, you're equally ecstatic. Get over it. Fuel for 50.

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It would have been Lockette's first red zone TD and 4th overall TD in his career. Also would have been his first playoff TD.

I looked though some more of the data. In the last three years, Lynch has only had one turnover, i.e. lost fumble, in the red zone. That play occurred in the 2012 season Wild Card game against the Redskins. Lynch has had three other fumbles in the red zone, in the last three years, but none of those resulted in a turnover. Also Lynch neither lost a fumble on a rushing attempt nor fumbled in the red zone in 2014.

Wilson had four INTs in the red zone in the 2014 regular season and playoffs.

We lost a fumble on a rush attempt from the 1 in the 2014 NFCCG against SF. I don't know if that got credited to Russ, but it was still a fumble on a rush at the goal line. He also lost the ball during the go-ahead TD against ATL but luckily broke plane first. Further, in 2014, Lynch was just 1-for-5 in converting TDs at the goal line. 1-for-5!

I'm not really interested in arguing against Marshawn though. End of the day, I'm still betting on him but all these stats show is that nothing is a sure bet, which is exactly my point.

DavidSeven":8emt85tc said:

We lost a fumble on a rush attempt from the 1 in the 2014 NFCCG against SF. I don't know if that got credited to Russ, but it was still a fumble on a rush at the goal line. He also lost the ball during the go-ahead TD against ATL but luckily broke plane first. Further, in 2014, Lynch was just 1-for-5 in converting TDs at the goal line. 1-for-5!

I'm not really interested in arguing against Marshawn though. End of the day, I'm still betting on him but all these stats show is that nothing is a sure bet, which is exactly my point.

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Yes, that fumble was credited to Russell.

We watched Lynch punch in a TD from two yards out in the First Quarter of the Super Bowl, against New England's red zone defense with eight men on the line of scrimmage. Those four plays that Lynch failed to convert at the goal line were freak busted plays due to poor blocking. However, on the whole, according to Football Outsiders, the Seahawks were the second-best power team in the league, converting 81 percent of power runs into first downs or touchdowns.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol

Meanwhile, New England's defense was dead last in the NFL in defending against power runs, allowing 81% of their opponents' power runs to result in first downs or touchdowns.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/dl

This should hammer home how bad this play call was with our strength (81% success) going up against their weakness (81% failure).

Still the worst call in the history of American Professional Sports. Possibly the most memorable play in the history of American Professional Sports. It isn't even a "what if" to me. it is a flat-out travesty. I will remember it 50 years from now. It is still beyond my comprehension that Bevell is actually coming back to this team. How in the world does that happen? And I'm a Bevell guy! Just typing his name raises my blood pressure several points. Living with it will be no different next week than it is this week. Living with it the rest of my life will be no different than it is this week.

Tical21":3cx6l8uy said:

Still the worst call in the history of American Professional Sports. Possibly the most memorable play in the history of American Professional Sports. It isn't even a "what if" to me. it is a flat-out travesty. I will remember it 50 years from now. It is still beyond my comprehension that Bevell is actually coming back to this team. How in the world does that happen? And I'm a Bevell guy! Just typing his name raises my blood pressure several points. Living with it will be no different next week than it is this week. Living with it the rest of my life will be no different than it is this week.

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And yet under Bevell's leadership, the team you proclaim as your own has given you two straight Super Bowl appearances, the most prosperity you've enjoyed in your lifetime. And you're mad? You really can't make this stuff up. Just so very glad that Pete's evaluations are the polar opposite of the football "intelligence" I have read from some of you.

United we stand... divided we fall.