Same D players, different D results

The D is where we chose to spend to keep the core of the Super Bowl team together however their dominant play has not continued. Sure we lost a few good ones on the D but the core players that were drafted by the Hawks during the building years (Sherm, Kam, Thomas, Earl) have not performed to their previous play. I truly think they miss Quinn and Norton badly and if this continues I hope we look to bring in someone they feel comfortable with. Thoughts?

Yet KJ, Cliff and Bennett ( except offside penalties) have been playing lights out. If a+b = c shouldn't these guys be playing like garbage too. Don't get me wrong I think losing Quinn and Norton has had its effects but I don't believe it should be the absolute excuse for the defensive backfield playing like a bunch of turds.

seabowl":2n2p0kou said:

The D is where we chose to spend to keep the core of the Super Bowl team together however their dominant play has not continued. Sure we lost a few good ones on the D but the core players that were drafted by the Hawks during the building years (Sherm, Kam, Thomas, Earl) have not performed to their previous play. I truly think they miss Quinn and Norton badly and if this continues I hope we look to bring in someone they feel comfortable with. Thoughts?

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New DC, 4 starters coming back from pretty serious injuries, your new 2nd corner has played like hot garbage, Kam's holdout, players are coming off playing more games in the NFL than anyone, they are a year older, and maybe a little Super Bowl hangover. I think not having Norton and Quinn also might be playing into this a bit.

Turnovers, or the lack thereof to be precise. Fewer turnovers forced = longer drives by the opposing offenses = more yards for opposing offenses = more scoring opportunities for opposing offenses. It also leads to more time of possession for the opponents.

2012: 1.9 TO/game
2013: 2.4 TO/game
2014: 1.4 TO/game
2015: 1.1 TO/game

Seattle needs to "force" turnovers....waiting for QB's to sail passes over the head of their WR's while we sit back and play zone, isn't going to cut it....

We have been missing Jeron Johnson and missed Marcus Burley horribly in the Superb Owl. Matchups. Sometimes a smart opponent only needs one favorable matchup to exploit. Like Tharald Simon in the SB, or us using Chris Matthews until the Patriots put Browner on him.

Also, I think teams have gotten better at attacking our defense.
Combined with the offense giving the D fewer breathers...
And combined with a little less rotation depth on the D-Line...

The truth is, it's not really the same players; it's different players, plus the offensive woes to make up the difference for, thus different results.

olyfan63":3x4197pt said:

We have been missing Jeron Johnson and missed Marcus Burley horribly in the Superb Owl. Matchups. Sometimes a smart opponent only needs one favorable matchup to exploit. Like Tharald Simon in the SB, or us using Chris Matthews until the Patriots put Browner on him.

Also, I think teams have gotten better at attacking our defense.
Combined with the offense giving the D fewer breathers...
And combined with a little less rotation depth on the D-Line...

The truth is, it's not really the same players; it's different players, plus the offensive woes to make up the difference for, thus different results.

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Teams have gotten better at attacking our Defense which should cause us to adjust to it. This seems to be the area we are lacking this year with Kris Richard. He does not seem to want to do anything different or make adjustments. We have been very strong in the 2nd half under Bradley and Quinn but the 4th quarter has been our weakness this year. I think they really miss Ken Norton, he was who they should have hired as D coordinator.

I've thought perhaps Kris Richard doesn't do as good a job of rotating DTs and DEs as Quinn did, and our D-Line wears out. Part of the data for this is a talent like Frank Clark not getting more snaps. Yes, I realize that would be taking Bennett off the field sometimes, but I'd rather have a fresh Bennett make more 4th quarter plays and give Clark a shot at making some 2nd and 3rd quarter plays.

The pieces are in place to get back to the SB.They do miss the coaches and players that they lost but we are only talking about a half a dozen plays from having a 7-3 to 8-2 season.Those plays could have come from either side of the ball and would have changed many of the games we lost.

A lot of reactionary posts that want to make wholesale changes to a team that isnt that far off.
We are comparing this D to a defense that stands up to the best defenses in history,we may never see that good of D again.

If I can offer some perspective from an outsider: one thing you guys have to realize is that his is the NFL, and unless you are the NE Patriots, it's very hard to maintain a level of excellence year in and year out, even with the same players. Your expectations for this defense sound a little high, you are expecting them to play at the level they have for awhile, but it's hard to sustain that. Your defense was absolutely dominant the last few years, they had an electrifying energy that was downright scary at times, but you cannot expect that defense to show up year in and year out with no fluctuation. That dominant defense is an energy that comes and goes, that's why the '85 Bears, the '00 Ravens or '08 Steelers don't keep winning championships year after year.

Most teams have a good 1 or 2 year run every 5-10 years, and if they don't win the big one while they are peaking that's it, for another handful of years. Meanwhile, some teams have steady enough coaches/players to always be in the running (Patriots, Steelers, Packers, etc.) and I would put Seattle in that group now as well under Pete Carroll, your defense, and RW.

Regardless of the less than stellar play from the offense right now, I don't think the Seahawks are a team anyone wants to mess with in the playoffs, because the Seahawks are still special enough to pull out enough big plays to win the game, and once you're in the playoffs, it's any given sunday.

Can't wait for Sunday :0190l:

Combination of three things IMO:

1) Over the last few years the Hawks D has lost a lot of its depth, it's role players, and its average-to-above average starters without having really replaced them (or, replaced them "yet"). The d-line depth in particular has really been decimated over the past two years, although the same could be said for the secondary too.

2) The Hawks have always played an atypically straightforward defensive scheme, but the league really clipped the defenses' wings when they started more aggressively calling the 5 yard contact rule. The Hawks were built to exploit this not being called that much (big corners who could press the heck out of people in a cover 3 shell with a good pass rush destroying timing while Kam roamed the middle and Thomas' ranginess allowed them to press in the shell in case one of their CBs got beat over the top).

3) With the changes in enforcement the Hawks' defensive scheme got even more vanilla, as they're still almost always playing a straight cover 3 shell, but aren't pressing nearly as much anymore. As a result teams are beating the Hawks pass defense not by being innovative or creative, but just by running the concepts that are designed to beat a straight forward cover 3 shell at all levels of football from High School to the NFL. The 9ers TD to McDonald came on the exact same route combo that the Bengals won on to Eifert; it's a skinny post cover 3 zone buster that has been around as long as cover 3 has.

FWIW I think #1 is an interstinf case-study in trying to apply the "superstar" strategy to the NFL, and I think the Hawks would probably be better of going back to more press in their cover 3, and just living with the penalties that will come with that (or heck, go unbalanced and put Sherman up in press and Williams in a soft shell, and flip Kam over to Williams' side, because if Williams gets in arms length of someone he's gonna grab them).

Popeyejones":1chpy4a6 said:

Combination of three things IMO:
1) Over the last few years the Hawks D has lost a lot of its depth, it's role players, and its average-to-above average starters without having really replaced them (or, replaced them "yet"). The d-line depth in particular has really been decimated over the past two years, although the same could be said for the secondary too.
--snip--

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olyfan63":1chpy4a6 said:

I've thought perhaps Kris Richard doesn't do as good a job of rotating DTs and DEs as Quinn did, and our D-Line wears out. Part of the data for this is a talent like Frank Clark not getting more snaps. Yes, I realize that would be taking Bennett off the field sometimes, but I'd rather have a fresh Bennett make more 4th quarter plays and give Clark a shot at making some 2nd and 3rd quarter plays.

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So regardless of whether Richard is or isn't rotating DL guys as well as Quinn did, our rotation depth guys are simply not as good as the guys we've had in the past? Tony McDaniel out, 'Tuba Rubin in, etc.

Maybe some of this is time in the system and chemistry for the new DL guys; we can hope, and if so, perhaps the Hawks defense can kick it up a notch in the remaining games, like they did last year after the return of Bobby Wagner.