Jimmy Graham Injury Question

tdlabrie · Mar 5, 2016

In reading an article about the possibility of Martellus Bennett coming to Seattle (yes, I know, posted elsewhere multiple times) I read the following:
http://12thmanrising.com/2016/03/05/could-martellus-bennett-be-headed-to-seattle/

Graham is set to count $9 million against the cap, but is unlikely to play until mid season.

Wow! I never heard that! I haven't been reading all the news for a while, but last I heard JG was in doubt for training camp only. Now it's weeks and weeks into the season? What gives?

TDOTSEAHAWK · Mar 5, 2016

tdlabrie":ws65d73c said:
In reading an article about the possibility of Marcus Bennett coming to Seattle (yes, I know, posted elsewhere multiple times) I read the following:
http://12thmanrising.com/2016/03/05/could-martellus-bennett-be-headed-to-seattle/

Graham is set to count $9 million against the cap, but is unlikely to play until mid season.

Click to expand...

Wow! I never heard that! I haven't been reading all the news for a while, but last I heard JG was in doubt for training camp only. Now it's weeks and weeks into the season? What gives?

It takes a full year to recover and it isn't an injury which we have a ton of experience rehabbing (compared to ACLs etc) so I think people are conservative in calling his return. I think there is basically a 100% chance he starts on PUP.

Also, for those who want to cut him and save cap, we can't cut him when he is injured - he would have to be cleared of his injury before we release him. He also can't take an injury settlement as it would have to occur within 5 days of being placed on injured reserve. So we may as well support him in good faith and consider options next offseason.

drdiags · Mar 5, 2016

There has also been speculation that Graham never recovers from the injury so it depends on what you want to believe. Nobody knows were Jimmy is as far as his recovery, all will speculate until he actually hits the field.

Overseasfan · Mar 5, 2016

Some say he might be ready for week 1 and others say he might not be able to play at all next season. It's too hard to call at this point.

firebee · Mar 5, 2016

Seriously... We're hanging on to this 9 million dollar contract? Just release him already. Holding on to a guy that will likely not be back until, at least, the start of the season... Then he's probably going to be ineffective for 5-6 games until he gets into the swing of the offense IF he's able to fully recover from this injury at all. This is just utterly the dumbest damn decision I've seen our FO make. He accounted for 2 TDs last year. He had a couple big games. How is keeping him on at 9 million dollars with all these factors even being considered?

ExBassGuide · Mar 5, 2016

No one would trade for J.G. till after he is healthy and would pass a physical!
WE CAN'T trade him now anyway! If we would like to trade him he would have to play well for a while before anyone would give up anything good in a trade.
Just my 2 cents

TDOTSEAHAWK · Mar 5, 2016

firebee":2rcefvb1 said:
Seriously... We're hanging on to this 9 million dollar contract? Just release him already.

You can't release him until he is cleared to play. Period. Furthermore, considering he won't be cleared to play until mid-season - he is going to count against the cap next season - no matter what the Hawks would like. May as well make the best of it.

hawksfansinceday1 · Mar 5, 2016

TDOTSEAHAWK":1keheu7a said:
firebee":1keheu7a said:

Seriously... We're hanging on to this 9 million dollar contract? Just release him already.

Click to expand...

You can't release him until he is cleared to play. Period. Furthermore, considering he won't be cleared to play until mid-season - he is going to count against the cap next season - no matter what the Hawks would like. May as well make the best of it.

Thanks for the info.

IBleedBlueAndGreen · Mar 5, 2016

Here is the situation. The patellar tendon rupture is a difficult injury for explosive athletes to recover from. It CAN be more lengthy than an ACL recovery, and usually is. The problem is that it is attached to the patella (kneecap) but continues to share fibers with the quadriceps tendon. A huge amount of force is generated by the quadriceps, meaning that it takes longer to be able to build the strength necessary to play professional football (if you try and load that tissue too early you'll slow down the healing rate at the surgical repair). I would expect that Jimmy plays next year, and probably towards the beginning of the season, although it would not surprise me at all if he was on the PUP list and didn't return until week seven. If all goes well Graham would be his full normal explosive self in 2017, but we may not see that in 2016.

On another note, I saw earlier in this thread somebody mentioned that the Seahawks staff "is less familiar" with this injury and that might impact his recovery. This is zero percent true. There are rehab protocols to follow initially and then quality clinical care and reasoning takes over when appropriate and based on how Graham is improving. Just like it would for an ACL.

Marlin Man · Mar 5, 2016

So we are stuck with the Whimp-ass Canadian for our starter for at least 1/2 the season???? This really sucks, hell the guy can not stay on the field more than a week or two before he gets a new injury? Maybe we'll draft a good one????

Willyeye · Mar 5, 2016

TDOTSEAHAWK":1dw8mp5u said:
firebee":1dw8mp5u said:

Seriously... We're hanging on to this 9 million dollar contract? Just release him already.

Click to expand...

You can't release him until he is cleared to play. Period. Furthermore, considering he won't be cleared to play until mid-season - he is going to count against the cap next season - no matter what the Hawks would like. May as well make the best of it.

Just out of curiosity, could the Seahawks still re-negotiate a new contract with him and try to pay him less for this season?

TDOTSEAHAWK · Mar 5, 2016

Willyeye":ik403rti said:
Just out of curiosity, could the Seahawks still re-negotiate a new contract with him and try to pay him less for this season?

Yes but the Hawks wouldn't really want to offer the incentive they would have to get it done with this major injury and potential lack of chemistry hanging over their heads as they would either have to extend him or move cash to next season and guarantee some of it.

From Graham's perspective, this season's cash is already guaranteed due to injury (at least technically until he is cleared to play) so moving this season's guaranteed cash to next season with no guarantee would be foolish of him as the Hawks could just cut him after this season and he'd see none of it.

Essentially, any money we would save this year would be dead cap space next year if we chose to cut him.

Otherwise, I think the Hawks would much rather just play out this season as is and then have the potential to cut him after this season with no cap ramifications.

chris98251 · Mar 5, 2016

TDOTSEAHAWK":1n42qd8u said:
Willyeye":1n42qd8u said:

Just out of curiosity, could the Seahawks still re-negotiate a new contract with him and try to pay him less for this season?

Click to expand...

Yes but the Hawks wouldn't really want to offer the incentive they would have to get it done with this major injury and potential lack of chemistry hanging over their heads as they would either have to extend him or move cash to next season and guarantee some of it.

From Graham's perspective, this season's cash is already guaranteed due to injury (at least technically until he is cleared to play) so moving this season's guaranteed cash to next season with no guarantee would be foolish of him as the Hawks could just cut him after this season and he'd see none of it.

Essentially, any money we would save this year would be dead cap space next year if we chose to cut him.

Otherwise, I think the Hawks would much rather just play out this season as is and then have the potential to cut him after this season with no cap ramifications.

This is not so different then the Kaep situation in S.C.

Hawks46 · Mar 7, 2016

IBleedBlueAndGreen":2wfna8fw said:
Here is the situation. The patellar tendon rupture is a difficult injury for explosive athletes to recover from. It CAN be more lengthy than an ACL recovery, and usually is. The problem is that it is attached to the patella (kneecap) but continues to share fibers with the quadriceps tendon. A huge amount of force is generated by the quadriceps, meaning that it takes longer to be able to build the strength necessary to play professional football (if you try and load that tissue too early you'll slow down the healing rate at the surgical repair). I would expect that Jimmy plays next year, and probably towards the beginning of the season, although it would not surprise me at all if he was on the PUP list and didn't return until week seven. If all goes well Graham would be his full normal explosive self in 2017, but we may not see that in 2016.

On another note, I saw earlier in this thread somebody mentioned that the Seahawks staff "is less familiar" with this injury and that might impact his recovery. This is zero percent true. There are rehab protocols to follow initially and then quality clinical care and reasoning takes over when appropriate and based on how Graham is improving. Just like it would for an ACL.

Any difference between a partial and a full tear ?

I know they take a graft from your patellar tendon when they do an ACL, and it fills in with scar tissue and is just as strong as before, plus it's usually healed by the time the graft is fully functional. It's probably different, but I know it's a significant chunk they take out of that tendon.

Also would be curious to know if anyone has heard whether it was a full or partial tendon tear.

G-Money · Mar 9, 2016

Hate indulging the "rumor mills".......but just read a scenario of Seattle trading J.G. to Chicago for a disgruntled Martellus Bennett. I personally would love to see this happen, but a long shot I'm sure.

bigskydoc · Mar 9, 2016

Hawks46":2k60mt90 said:
Any difference between a partial and a full tear ?
Also would be curious to know if anyone has heard whether it was a full or partial tendon tear.

I haven't heard, but almost certainly a full tear given the mechanism of injury. Some partial tears can be treated non-surgically in the average person who isn't an NFL elite athlete. I suspect that fewer of these partial tears can be treated non-surgically in NFL-caliber athletes, given the predicted stresses that will be placed on the tendon after rehab.

Hawks46":2k60mt90 said:
I know they take a graft from your patellar tendon when they do an ACL, and it fills in with scar tissue and is just as strong as before, plus it's usually healed by the time the graft is fully functional. It's probably different, but I know it's a significant chunk they take out of that tendon. .

When we use the patellar tendon for ACL repair, we only take about 1/3rd of the tendon with a small bone plug on either end. Since the damage is a thin strip taken out along the tendon, instead of across the tendon as in a rupture, tendon strength after rehab is quite good.

Think of it like a rope with 33 strands. If I take out 11 of them, the rope will still be almost as strong.

This is very different from a tear that disrupts most or all of the fibers transversely. That would be like tearing the rope or cutting it into two pieces. If you want to hang weight off of that rope now, you are going to have to do some sort of repair.

Rough analogy

- bsd

Jimmy Graham Injury Question

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