Report: Jimmy Graham

[SoulfishHawk]

For the right price, sure. He's a beast in Red Zone, when they use him. But, stop trying to make him a blocker. He's a big WR, not a blocking TE.

 

[JSeahawks]

Please let him leave. Use his money to buy the best guard on the market.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

And not an injury prone average at best one *cough cough not Joekel*

 

[Fanatics]

Great just what the Patriots need, another TE. You know Belichick would love to create mismatches all over the place and with Graham/Gronk, good luck.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Wouldn't be surprised one bit if they not only get Graham, but he takes less to stay there. One of the big reasons they are great for so long isn't just the coaching. It's vet players taking smaller contracts to play there, happens all the time in NE.

 

[mikeak]

They can part ways with Joeckel and Lacy. There's the money to re-sign Jimmy G right there. They have plenty of money to sign Jimmy G if they desire to do so. I hope they do.

I keep reading comments like this (just grabbed one to pick at).

There is ZERO DOLLARS cap saving for the upcoming year with parting ways with Joeckel and Lacy

Lets repeat that -- ZERO dollars

They both signed one year deals. They do not count against the cap. The $19 million or so we have under the cap currently is counting ZERO dollars towards all the one year deals we made.........

So keeping Joeckel or Lacy (unlikely to say the least) would count MORE against the cap - not keeping them doesn't free up any money

 

[Seymour]

Great just what the Patriots need, another TE. You know Belichick would love to create mismatches all over the place and with Graham/Gronk, good luck.

If he does, I wish him better luck than the last big named TE they signed to pair with Gronk.

 

[Popeyejones]

My major argument is that the best predictor of TDs is receptions, and Graham's TD rate of 2017 is unsustainable.

But if you're going to go there, you have to look at Jimmy's 2016, where he picked up 65 receptions (8th in the league at his position) for 923 yards (3rd at his position). So he can play that role, too, and it's still a pretty recent production history.

That's fair.

But if you do that you're gona have to note that his YPC that year is a major outlier for him (he only got within a yard of it in one of his five years in NO), and that a guy who's major feather in his cap is that he was #8 in receptions at his position two years ago probably isn't worth re-upping again on a top value value contract at age 32.

If the Hawks had more cap space or if he wasn't a horrible scheme fit for what they like to do I'd get it more, but in this situation, I think you're just grateful that you at least got something out of him and let him walk.

 

[Scorpion05]

The issue with Jimmy Graham coming back (in my mind) is twofold ...

#1 -- $10-15 Million (or whatever the actual contract number would happen to be) is just FAR too much for a 31 year old TE. There are a lot of other areas where that money can be allocated.

Much more importantly though it's about ...

#2 -- IDENTITY. So much of the questions we find ourselves asking about this team come down to questions of IDENTITY. Who are the Seattle Seahawks? What are they all about? At the heart of it, what are their core values? For the Hawks under Pete Carroll, the answer to that question has been all about ...

Hard Nosed In Your Face Defense
Toughness
Nastiness and "being the bully" -- punching other teams in the mouth until they cry uncle and submit.
Running the Football (Marshawn Lynch embodied what this team was all about). It's STILL what they value.

So, which part of that does Jimmy Graham truly support? I mean, he's a very talented pass catcher (that goes without saying). At 6'7" 265 lbs he's admittedly a match-up nightmare ... and Russell Wilson clearly came to rely upon him. There's a chemistry there.

BUT ... when you look at Jimmy Graham, does he really embody that "nastiness"? Is he a bully to opposing defenses? Does he shove them around? Is he a good, hard nosed, nasty run blocker?

The answer to all of that (of course) is No. When push comes to shove, he's a finesse player ... and this Seahawks team has never been about finesse. He's a square peg in a round hole whom we've tried to make fit ever since he's been here. IMO, that missing piece right there (Graham's lack of nastiness, poor run blocking, etc.) has been part of the problem. His lack of blocking ability and nastiness is part of what's ailed this team, in terms of the running game and also blocking for other receivers after the catch.

To me, I'd rather roll with Nick Vannett in there and see what he can do if you give him the reps that Jimmy Graham had. Vannett reminds me a lot of what this team used to have in Zach Miller. THAT'S more of the kind of TE that fits in this offense. And he's going to be a whole heck of a lot less expensive.

I'm firmly of the opinion that Graham is gone for all of the reasons noted above.

You're absolutely correct. Except, can Luke Willson claim to be that nasty, hard nose player? And if so what's better, Jimmy's production or Willson's blocking?

Jimmy's basically a wide receiver. Split him out wide with Vannett or Luke for blocking. I don't know if you can really argue that say, Paul Richardson was much better out wide blocking than Jimmy is. What we need is versatility on offense, and a running back that can make defenses pay. Ditto for a Full Back as well

 

[semiahmoo]

Wouldn't be surprised one bit if they not only get Graham, but he takes less to stay there. One of the big reasons they are great for so long isn't just the coaching. It's vet players taking smaller contracts to play there, happens all the time in NE.

YUP - because they want a real shot @ a ring and NE gives them that year after year after year...

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Wouldn't be surprised one bit if they not only get Graham, but he takes less to stay there. One of the big reasons they are great for so long isn't just the coaching. It's vet players taking smaller contracts to play there, happens all the time in NE.

Whatever shine the Hawks had at attracting or keeping FA's to come here because we played in two straight SB's, is gone.

If you're Graham, why on earth would you sign back here..............for less? To block 60% of the time, not catch balls and now not compete for SB's?

Dude's gone, and he should be. We don't have the luxury of extra cap space to spend 8-10M a year on a TE to block for over half his snaps.

 

[MontanaHawk05]

The issue with Jimmy Graham coming back (in my mind) is twofold ...

#1 -- $10-15 Million (or whatever the actual contract number would happen to be) is just FAR too much for a 31 year old TE. There are a lot of other areas where that money can be allocated.

Much more importantly though it's about ...

#2 -- IDENTITY. So much of the questions we find ourselves asking about this team come down to questions of IDENTITY. Who are the Seattle Seahawks? What are they all about? At the heart of it, what are their core values? For the Hawks under Pete Carroll, the answer to that question has been all about ...

Hard Nosed In Your Face Defense
Toughness
Nastiness and "being the bully" -- punching other teams in the mouth until they cry uncle and submit.
Running the Football (Marshawn Lynch embodied what this team was all about). It's STILL what they value.

So, which part of that does Jimmy Graham truly support? I mean, he's a very talented pass catcher (that goes without saying). At 6'7" 265 lbs he's admittedly a match-up nightmare ... and Russell Wilson clearly came to rely upon him. There's a chemistry there.

BUT ... when you look at Jimmy Graham, does he really embody that "nastiness"? Is he a bully to opposing defenses? Does he shove them around? Is he a good, hard nosed, nasty run blocker?

The answer to all of that (of course) is No. When push comes to shove, he's a finesse player ... and this Seahawks team has never been about finesse. He's a square peg in a round hole whom we've tried to make fit ever since he's been here. IMO, that missing piece right there (Graham's lack of nastiness, poor run blocking, etc.) has been part of the problem. His lack of blocking ability and nastiness is part of what's ailed this team, in terms of the running game and also blocking for other receivers after the catch.

To me, I'd rather roll with Nick Vannett in there and see what he can do if you give him the reps that Jimmy Graham had. Vannett reminds me a lot of what this team used to have in Zach Miller. THAT'S more of the kind of TE that fits in this offense. And he's going to be a whole heck of a lot less expensive.

I'm firmly of the opinion that Graham is gone for all of the reasons noted above.

I do agree with this reasoning.

I'd LIKE Seattle to re-sign him, because you can want smashmouth hard-nosed yada until you're blue in the face and you still need touchdowns. I saw Jimmy's signing as a welcome signal that Pete was not as married to his philosophy as generally thought, and could be pragmatic.

But I suspect he goes somewhere else, and our offense experiences its worst season under Carroll because of it. Everyone will blame coaches, but there's nobody on the roster who's going to replicate Jimmy's production next year.

 

[Fanatics]

The NE scenario is always a possibility as they seemed to hit on what makes that offense click when they drafted both Gronk and Hernandez in the same draft class. Since then they have always tried to pair Gronk with another good TE, with Marcellus Bennett and Dwayne Allen, especially since the Hernandez failure. I could really see them giving up on a WR or two for another big receiver type.

 

[Shanegotyou11]

Lol. You guys are gonna rethink what your saying when he leaves and our redzone offense is back to atrocious.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I'm hoping they bring him back, just not sure they will have the cap to do it. Also, would love for them to use him in the way he should be used.

 

[Seymour]

Wouldn't be surprised one bit if they not only get Graham, but he takes less to stay there. One of the big reasons they are great for so long isn't just the coaching. It's vet players taking smaller contracts to play there, happens all the time in NE.

Whatever shine the Hawks had at attracting or keeping FA's to come here because we played in two straight SB's, is gone.

If you're Graham, why on earth would you sign back here..............for less? To block 60% of the time, not catch balls and now not compete for SB's?

Dude's gone, and he should be. We don't have the luxury of extra cap space to spend 8-10M a year on a TE to block for over half his snaps.

Agree.

About the only perk we could offer Graham over others now is he can fly in to work here.

That and Pete will let him jog his routes as long as he catches xx TD's per year.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

I'm hoping they bring him back, just not sure they will have the cap to do it. Also, would love for them to use him in the way he should be used.

Let's break this down;

- same QB
- same coach
- same coordinator
- same scheme

We had three years to figure out how to incorporate Graham into our schemes, wasn't successful, especially for him.

I love your optimism Soulfish, but there's literally not ONE reason if you're Graham to resign here, unless we fork out the most money............which won't happen either.

I don't think Graham ever felt comfortable here either btw, there was always an underlying tension with most of the other players, especially on defense. Wasn't tough enough, didn't fit our style.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Yeah, he really never did fit in completely. And it felt like it took 2 and a half season to really get it rolling. What a waste of a talent, we all can see what he's capable of.

 

[Seymour]

I like Jimmy but agree he is not a fit here, and first things first. Oline.

That and it makes zero sense to pay him $10M then leave him in to block because you cannot afford a competent offensive lineman. Now you have no receiver and also no blocker still.

That is like leaving 4 snow tires on your Ferrari all summer because it snowed once last January.

 

[Scorpion05]

I think some of you are missing another factor. Jimmy is one of Russell’s close friends. In fact, he was at Russ’s wedding. Jimmy has gotten almost as close with Wilson as Robert Turbin was

Friendship with Russ + Stability + Flying into work + Great fan base who will revere him forever + Great coach may be enough to keep him.

The Seahawks are a proven commodity. If I was a player, I’d feel more comfortable with Pete and the culture here than I would with overly strict Belicheck, or unproven Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan. Some fans are too caught up in recency bias. The new hot thing is not always the best thing