Interesting Jimmy Stats

Optimus25

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
2,381
Reaction score
527
Let me preface this by saying I am fire Bevell. I cut him enormous slack due to the offensive line and the overall complexity of the position, but ultimately I'm just not convinced we couldn't do better. So i started thinking about some of our offensive problems, and i got the idea to reference the Saints and how they utilized Jimmy because i think some of us take for granted what a premier player we got in that deal. I wish i had better information available, but the numbers seem to tell the story regardless.

Throwing out his rookie season, you see a clear pattern of his usage in New Orleans in his average targets per game of 8-9. His catch % remains similar throughout his career, and his yds / catch are also consistently between 10-14 every year in the league.

But here's where everything falls off the rails.

His receptions per game are down between a full 1-2 range in Seattle in proportion basically to his drop in targets per game. This would basically explain many other metrics being down, so i don't see the need to hit on yds/ game or the like. But where i see the biggest drop is TDs.

2011-2014 touchdowns per season....

11, 9, 16, 10.

Two seasons in Seattle....

2, 6.

Adjust for games missed or not yet played so we can compare full seasons to full seasons and you get...

4, 7.
Then the crazy thing for me is that his yds/ gm doesn't drop off so dramatically, so everything seems to point to usage in the red zone. Like 7 possessions yesterday knocking on the door and not one target. Or targeting him against the Ram at the goal line by using him at the traditional TE role and having him find a path to leak thru many closely consolidated bodies, instead of splitting him wide and either iso or force a double team. There's a reason his 2013 season had him categorized as a WR/ TE.

I have never seen a sack on a quick slant pattern unless the db jumped the route so great that the qb had to double clutch and couldn't get the pass off. I say this because there's a ton of things you can do with a guy like Jimmy to counter tough interior pressure, or at least improve your chances of moving the ball at all.

A fade takes less than 2 seconds to develop.
 

cymatica

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2014
Messages
4,414
Reaction score
3,097
But the o-line, but 31 points, but he had a td
 

scrummymustard

New member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Messages
170
Reaction score
0
I said something very similar yesterday. It's extremely easy to mask the deficiencies of our OL on the goal line with fades and quick slants. I'm getting very sick of the OL excuse. Graham is a difference maker. Let him make a difference and split him out wide.

Running a route from a 3 point stance is way harder than just being split out. Stop having him pass block is a start.
 

Scorpion05

Active member
Joined
Dec 13, 2016
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
10
What part of we have the lowest paid O-line does no one understand?
 
OP
OP
O

Optimus25

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
2,381
Reaction score
527
Scorpion05":14jyg13u said:
What part of we have the lowest paid O-line does no one understand?


So then we should continue to run slow developing pass plays and also ignore the greatest threat in the nfl as a viable solution to our offensive line woes?. And just all shut up and pretend all's well?

Crickets.
 

Seahawk Sailor

Active member
Joined
Mar 3, 2007
Messages
22,963
Reaction score
1
Location
California via Negros Occidental, Philippines
Scorpion05":3pv4tpsv said:
What part of we have the lowest paid O-line does no one understand?

Apparently the part where if you do quick slants to your tight end, you can mask a lot of deficiencies in the offensive line. Which is exactly the point of some of the posts in this thread.

Yes, the offensive line sucks. No, you don't have to suck it up and do nothing to mitigate that by failing to use weapons at your disposal.

And the point of the OP, unless I miss my guess, is that we aren't using Jimmy Graham more in the red zone. Using him there, where plays are shorter and develop quicker, would be a way to mitigate the deficiencies of the offensive line and win games we should win.
 

semiahmoo

Active member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,003
Reaction score
0
Ah, just posted a Graham stat related thread as well.

Great minds and all that...
 
OP
OP
O

Optimus25

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 27, 2014
Messages
2,381
Reaction score
527
semiahmoo":1b8qbyp8 said:
Ah, just posted a Graham stat related thread as well.

Great minds and all that...


Lol. Yours is probably better... Gonna go read it now. I was chasing an infant around the house while the wife was cooking Christmas dinner and bitching about me being on my phone again when i was researching for mine...
 

semiahmoo

Active member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,003
Reaction score
0
Much has been said regarding the lack of consistent targets to Jimmy Graham throughout the season.

It appears the only stat that matters - WINS vs LOSSES, supports the frustration so many have with this situation.

When Jimmy is targeted and accumulates 60+ yards in a game, the Hawks have won 5/6 of those contests.

In the games where Jimmy saw fewer targets and accumulated less than 60 total yards, the Hawks are 2/7.

This stat would indicate that Jimmy Graham might very well be the 2nd most important part of the Hawks' offense behind Russel Wilson - and yet, for whatever reason, be it Bevell or something else, we have seen Graham underutilized for multiple games, used as a blocker for a majority of plays, etc.

If the 60+ yds stat would hold for the entire season, (and given it's based on 6 games, so it's not an outlier but a clear trend, it is not beyond reason to think if the Hawks had been able to more fully utilize Graham's remarkable gifts as an athlete/receiver, the Hawks might very well be the most dominant team in the league right now instead of limping into the playoffs with multiple hot vs cold performances.
 

semiahmoo

Active member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,003
Reaction score
0
Optimus25":2zhd8xsr said:
semiahmoo":2zhd8xsr said:
Ah, just posted a Graham stat related thread as well.

Great minds and all that...


Lol. Yours is probably better... Gonna go read it now. I was chasing an infant around the house while the wife was cooking Christmas dinner and bitching about me being on my phone again when i was researching for mine...

No, you did good! There does seem to be a direct link between when Graham is actually used in the offense and the Hawks success.

The question is, if we are able to see that link so clearly, why doesn't Bevell/Pete/etc????
 

rjdriver

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 30, 2009
Messages
3,019
Reaction score
1,641
Location
Utah
Optimus25":2sdb9xd8 said:
semiahmoo":2sdb9xd8 said:
Ah, just posted a Graham stat related thread as well.

Great minds and all that...


Lol. Yours is probably better... Gonna go read it now. I was chasing an infant around the house while the wife was cooking Christmas dinner and bitching about me being on my phone again when i was researching for mine...

We live in parallel universes.

Good post as well, nice points.
 

RussB

New member
Joined
Aug 19, 2015
Messages
2,589
Reaction score
1
Location
Spokane, WA
They need to create gameplans around jimmy g and have him as the #1 option at all times. They arent doing that.They treat him like hes a role player or just another TE on the roster.
 

semiahmoo

Active member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,003
Reaction score
0
semiahmoo":3b1j44rr said:
Much has been said regarding the lack of consistent targets to Jimmy Graham throughout the season.

It appears the only stat that matters - WINS vs LOSSES, supports the frustration so many have with this situation.

When Jimmy is targeted and accumulates 60+ yards in a game, the Hawks have won 5/6 of those contests.

In the games where Jimmy saw fewer targets and accumulated less than 60 total yards, the Hawks are 2/7.

This stat would indicate that Jimmy Graham might very well be the 2nd most important part of the Hawks' offense behind Russel Wilson - and yet, for whatever reason, be it Bevell or something else, we have seen Graham underutilized for multiple games, used as a blocker for a majority of plays, etc.

If the 60+ yds stat would hold for the entire season, (and given it's based on 6 games, so it's not an outlier but a clear trend, it is not beyond reason to think if the Hawks had been able to more fully utilize Graham's remarkable gifts as an athlete/receiver, the Hawks might very well be the most dominant team in the league right now instead of limping into the playoffs with multiple hot vs cold performances.
 

semiahmoo

Active member
Joined
Oct 30, 2016
Messages
2,003
Reaction score
0
hgwellz12":26m6ypje said:
This shit literally makes my stomach churn :pukeface: . Again, wtbleep is going through our coaching staff's minds?
Bevell must owe the cartels some money. Or product. Or both. All I know is he better be replaced before ota's


Those boos raining down on the Hawks last game were sad to hear - but totally understandable.

The play calling too often truly sucks, and it's tearing this team apart.
 

getnasty

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Messages
6,473
Reaction score
671
I think the answer is Drew Brees had a great connect with Jimmy Graham and was his go to guy. I don't see that with Russ, if he had a go to guy it's Baldwin. I also feel like Russell usually throws the ball were the defense dictates, like the fade to Kearse for the TD, you really think that's was Bevell number 1 option? If so then Bevell does need canned but my guess is Russ reads the defense pre determines were it's going and throws it. Not saying this is a bad thing for Russ but sometimes you just got to your best player escpically in the red zone and let him make the play. I honestly doubt Jimmy Graham isn't a huge part of every game plan but tight end routes usually take a little more time to develop and unfortunately time is something our QB doesn't have a lot of right now. I would also be curious to see how many red zone possessions the Saints had compared to us in the span and what the run to pass ratio is between the two teams. My guess is NO has more red zone possessions and throws a lot more in the opportunitys too.
 
Top