A couple of fun facts about last game

Biggest one for me: evidently the OL had NO PENALTIES last game. I'll repeat it.....Offensive Line had NO penalties. Just, wow.

Russell Wilson shed the knee brace....and consequently had no rushing attempts in the last game. Now, I don't know if they correlate at all...but it's good and bad news for me. I thought there was something more wrong with his knee they were hiding because he's been criminally under throwing a ton of passes this year. So the good news is that he's brace free and won't need surgery.

Bad news is that there's something else going on for him to under throw so many balls consistently. It's not just on his deep balls either, I'm seing intermediate and shallow stuff being under thrown to the point where WRs are diving for stuff, or having to come back for balls and getting no opportunity for YAC on the play.

Either way, it's a positive sign that they've figured out something with the OL (even against bad DL's, you'll get an illegal shift, hold or false start once a game), and that Wilson is healing up despite the beating he's taken this year.

Yes agreed I've noticed the same thing.

Wilson is underthrowing the short stuff and overthrowing the deep balls when we get behind the safeties (generally).

I think the pec injury must be more severe than was let on.

Also he definitely looks slower, and the more games go by, the more it looks like this is due to him bulking up as opposed to the knee and ankle problems

Followthelegion":tj18swuv said:

Yes agreed I've noticed the same thing.

Wilson is underthrowing the short stuff and overthrowing the deep balls when we get behind the safeties (generally).

I think the pec injury must be more severe than was let on.

Also he definitely looks slower, and the more games go by, the more it looks like this is due to him bulking up as opposed to the knee and ankle problems

Click to expand...

You know, I'd forgotten about the pec thing. That could explain a lot. I'd also rather him overthrow deep passes than under throw them. Guys like Baldwin and Richardson don't have a lot of trouble getting behind their guys.

Russell had some bad throws, but he also had quite a few with great touch and accuracy.

So maybe he is healing up and regaining his form just in time for the playoffs. Obviously the brace is a good thing, and an entire week of practice without it should only help right?

He's not going to be 100% until next year, but he's good enough to make a run if our defense can play like they did Saturday night.

I think fans are unrealistic when looking at their qb. He was 22-30 with at least 2 drops. You don't get much more accurate then that. I sometimes wonder if guys watch other QB's. Rodgers, Brady, Ryan etc. they all miss multiple throws every single game, its just a part of the game. I do agree he's not as sharp as we've seen him in the past but he's not throwing terribly either. I feel just fine about Wilson and how he's playing.

The underthrow at the end of the half was bad. You make that throw you are probably ending the half with 7pts. Instead we kicked 3 and Detroit got enough time to go down he field and kick 3. That could have allowed them back in the game. Big time mistake

I truly believe it is an over conservative thing. No turnover mantra is to strong in PC and RW combined at times. So he throws low which gives him a smaller windows for errors

mikeak":ee1ql59p said:

The underthrow at the end of the half was bad. You make that throw you are probably ending the half with 7pts. Instead we kicked 3 and Detroit got enough time to go down he field and kick 3. That could have allowed them back in the game. Big time mistake

I truly believe it is an over conservative thing. No turnover mantra is to strong in PC and RW combined at times. So he throws low which gives him a smaller windows for errors

Click to expand...

But Russell's always been like this.........he's very much a feel, rhythm and confidence QB. When he's confident and in rhythm then he's one of the most accurate QB's in the league.

When he's tentative, hesitant and gets his happy feet going cause he's getting sacked or hit, then that's when he's off.

But you can say this about every QB in the league. So are Russell's injuries affecting his accuracy? Maybe, but I'd say it's more his injuries are affecting his confidence, and THAT'S the main reason for the inaccurate or throws with poor touch.

mikeak":lige859q said:

The underthrow at the end of the half was bad. You make that throw you are probably ending the half with 7pts. Instead we kicked 3 and Detroit got enough time to go down he field and kick 3. That could have allowed them back in the game. Big time mistake

I truly believe it is an over conservative thing. No turnover mantra is to strong in PC and RW combined at times. So he throws low which gives him a smaller windows for errors

Click to expand...

Agreed... very conservative and not turning over the ball. With the running game working, the offense could afford to do this. Got to think this was a big thing going into the game. Hester pretty much fair caught everything, some of those punts were returnable. I'm guessing they told Hester also to be conservative

About Russell: It was also nice to see Russell throwing the ball away more than taking the sack.

Sgt. Largent":1d46c0zo said:

mikeak":1d46c0zo said:

The underthrow at the end of the half was bad. You make that throw you are probably ending the half with 7pts. Instead we kicked 3 and Detroit got enough time to go down he field and kick 3. That could have allowed them back in the game. Big time mistake

I truly believe it is an over conservative thing. No turnover mantra is to strong in PC and RW combined at times. So he throws low which gives him a smaller windows for errors

Click to expand...

But Russell's always been like this.........he's very much a feel, rhythm and confidence QB. When he's confident and in rhythm then he's one of the most accurate QB's in the league.

When he's tentative, hesitant and gets his happy feet going cause he's getting sacked or hit, then that's when he's off.

But you can say this about every QB in the league. So are Russell's injuries affecting his accuracy? Maybe, but I'd say it's more his injuries are affecting his confidence, and THAT'S the main reason for the inaccurate or throws with poor touch.

Click to expand...

What i like most about this post is the words... Happy feet.

I broke down several times, on my dvr, images of Russ allowing the pocket collapse around him and rather than be the Russ of old and plant a foot in the dirt and decisively escape, he is happy feeting around with his eyes downfield. I get the effectiveness of a scrambling qb who constantly scans the field, but he has to make that first moment of the pocket collapse count. The Lions held contain early, but several times as the game wore on Russ had escape lanes right there for the taking that he just didn't.

Unfortunately i can't figure out how to create gifs from these screen shots that will fit the site.

Also, it seems he's trying to duck under the pressure and escape forward and then to the sidelines more which is killing us, versus his old school juke the outer defender and reverse spin away to create an eternity of time.

Optimus25":2xf1uvnv said:

I broke down several times, on my dvr, images of Russ allowing the pocket collapse around him and rather than be the Russ of old and plant a foot in the dirt and decisively escape, he is happy feeting around with his eyes downfield. I get the effectiveness of a scrambling qb who constantly scans the field, but he has to make that first moment of the pocket collapse count. The Lions held contain early, but several times as the game wore on Russ had escape lanes right there for the taking that he just didn't.

Unfortunately i can't figure out how to create gifs from these screen shots that will fit the site.

Also, it seems he's trying to duck under the pressure and escape forward and then to the sidelines more which is killing us, versus his old school juke the outer defender and reverse spin away to create an eternity of time.

Click to expand...

When RW was injured I made the point that it would force him to start moving around the pocket more (and was chastised for being stupid and saying the injury was good for him). I agree from watching the game he really did a better job moving around and I will maintain that I think he kind of re-learned this during the weeks playing hobbled

Separately - RW is accurate but when you shrink the target area and then drop it down to the mid-section and below I feel it really hurts the completion percentages. Aiming for the numbers would increase completions......

Optimus25":fafch7j0 said:

Also, it seems he's trying to duck under the pressure and escape forward and then to the sidelines more which is killing us, versus his old school juke the outer defender and reverse spin away to create an eternity of time.

Click to expand...

He tries to escape to the sideline as well, that's why all the almost getting sacked and throwing it away at the last second plays come from.

Problem this year is he just doesn't have that quickness to get around that edge rusher like he's used to doing. So we get the frustrating sideline throw aways.

He looked pretty fast throwing the block for Rawls.

Sgt. Largent":3pq1rfzh said:

Optimus25":3pq1rfzh said:

Also, it seems he's trying to duck under the pressure and escape forward and then to the sidelines more which is killing us, versus his old school juke the outer defender and reverse spin away to create an eternity of time.

Click to expand...

He tries to escape to the sideline as well, that's why all the almost getting sacked and throwing it away at the last second plays come from.

Problem this year is he just doesn't have that quickness to get around that edge rusher like he's used to doing. So we get the frustrating sideline throw aways.

Click to expand...

Well, that's at least partly because D's around the league have seen his favorite spin move for a couple of seasons and are widening out on their pass rush, making that spin move less effective. As with all mobile QBs, defenses will try to keep him in the pocket. Teams are getting better at that.

austinslater25":17nslz89 said:

I think fans are unrealistic when looking at their qb. He was 22-30 with at least 2 drops. You don't get much more accurate then that. I sometimes wonder if guys watch other QB's. Rodgers, Brady, Ryan etc. they all miss multiple throws every single game, its just a part of the game. I do agree he's not as sharp as we've seen him in the past but he's not throwing terribly either. I feel just fine about Wilson and how he's playing.

Click to expand...

A couple of those were also good pass defenses; there's a lot of truth here. Just look at how much criticism Brady was getting through the first half of 2014 and how much criticism Rodgers was getting the first half of this year. Success doesn't protect you against backlash in this league.

Ultimately fans want to believe that outcomes are driven by their own players. If we don't connect on a play then it's because our QB was off, the receiver didn't make the play, our protection was bad, or the play call was stupid. Sometimes it's the ref's fault, but it's almost never because the opposing team of players did their job. It's particularly funny when you listen to opposing fan bases discuss the same plays from their own perspectives.

50% of the outcome on Saturday against Atlanta will be determined by how well the Falcons play and that's a tough pill for fans to swallow.

AgentDib":iiqsw141 said:

Ultimately fans want to believe that outcomes are driven by their own players. If we don't connect on a play then it's because our QB was off, the receiver didn't make the play, our protection was bad, or the play call was stupid.

Click to expand...

And when forced to choose between those, fans will choose the scapegoat that can be replaced most painlessly. It's why Kearse, Bevell, and the OL get the most flak, and Wilson and Pete Carroll almost never do.

Remember how much people criticized him for overthrowing his first couple years? He's never been perfect.

fenderbender123":21d61gm3 said:

Remember how much people criticized him for overthrowing his first couple years? He's never been perfect.

Click to expand...

He still does this. Towards the sidelines he will overthrow and towards the middle he will underthrow

That is why I am firm in my belief that it is a choice tied to being conservative.

Sgt. Largent":3dpjzuu3 said:

mikeak":3dpjzuu3 said:

The underthrow at the end of the half was bad. You make that throw you are probably ending the half with 7pts. Instead we kicked 3 and Detroit got enough time to go down he field and kick 3. That could have allowed them back in the game. Big time mistake

I truly believe it is an over conservative thing. No turnover mantra is to strong in PC and RW combined at times. So he throws low which gives him a smaller windows for errors

Click to expand...

But Russell's always been like this.........he's very much a feel, rhythm and confidence QB. When he's confident and in rhythm then he's one of the most accurate QB's in the league.

When he's tentative, hesitant and gets his happy feet going cause he's getting sacked or hit, then that's when he's off.

But you can say this about every QB in the league. So are Russell's injuries affecting his accuracy? Maybe, but I'd say it's more his injuries are affecting his confidence, and THAT'S the main reason for the inaccurate or throws with poor touch.

Click to expand...

I'd agree that most QBs in the league are rhythm passers and get in a groove. One of Wilson's strongest assets is that he can crap the bed for 3 quarters then drop 3 dimes in the most critical part of the game.

My two criticisms of him this last game were his lack of pocket awareness and consistent under throws. You could be onto something with the confidence thing, but I think that relates more to the sacks. He just ducked down and ran right into two of them. But he's consistently underthrowing everything. Guys are diving to the ground on a 7 yard pass that travels maybe 15. It messes up the receiver's motion and kills their YAC.

I see the top QBs like Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Rivers etc. putting the ball where their WRs can make plays but also catch in stride and keep running. A lot of guys can throw junk balls that their WRs can make good plays on, but the elite guys have such great accuracy that it makes their WRs "better" in that their job is easie to run after the catch.

WIlson's been there before, I'm just saying this year it's been consistently off.

sutz":34f577ne said:

Sgt. Largent":34f577ne said:

Optimus25":34f577ne said:

Also, it seems he's trying to duck under the pressure and escape forward and then to the sidelines more which is killing us, versus his old school juke the outer defender and reverse spin away to create an eternity of time.

Click to expand...

He tries to escape to the sideline as well, that's why all the almost getting sacked and throwing it away at the last second plays come from.

Problem this year is he just doesn't have that quickness to get around that edge rusher like he's used to doing. So we get the frustrating sideline throw aways.

Click to expand...

Well, that's at least partly because D's around the league have seen his favorite spin move for a couple of seasons and are widening out on their pass rush, making that spin move less effective. As with all mobile QBs, defenses will try to keep him in the pocket. Teams are getting better at that.

Click to expand...

They're widening out their pass rush, or "slow rushing" as I've seen it termed because Russell isn't that much of a threat to run up the middle and break contain.

So IMO it's not so much teams have seen his spin move, it's that they don't have to respect him breaking middle contain and running for 20 yards being hurt. So they can slow rush on the edge and just make sure he stays in the pocket.

Sgt. Largent":2xd79xqj said:

sutz":2xd79xqj said:

Sgt. Largent":2xd79xqj said:

Optimus25":2xd79xqj said:

Also, it seems he's trying to duck under the pressure and escape forward and then to the sidelines more which is killing us, versus his old school juke the outer defender and reverse spin away to create an eternity of time.

Click to expand...

He tries to escape to the sideline as well, that's why all the almost getting sacked and throwing it away at the last second plays come from.

Problem this year is he just doesn't have that quickness to get around that edge rusher like he's used to doing. So we get the frustrating sideline throw aways.

Click to expand...

Well, that's at least partly because D's around the league have seen his favorite spin move for a couple of seasons and are widening out on their pass rush, making that spin move less effective. As with all mobile QBs, defenses will try to keep him in the pocket. Teams are getting better at that.

Click to expand...

They're widening out their pass rush, or "slow rushing" as I've seen it termed because Russell isn't that much of a threat to run up the middle and break contain.

So IMO it's not so much teams have seen his spin move, it's that they don't have to respect him breaking middle contain and running for 20 yards being hurt. So they can slow rush on the edge and just make sure he stays in the pocket.

Click to expand...

The holes have been there, but I think it's a confidence issue going without that brace. Wilson has to gain a bit of confidence. I'm happier with him being conservative and still available to us.