Bevell has made Brady the "Best of all time", but...

Bloodrunsblue · Feb 5, 2015

What would the media take on Brady been if the Hawks score there? Seems that one play could have turned his legacy either way. The media is just slobbering all over him now, but would would they have said "past his prime" or "unable to close out games"?

Uncle Si · Feb 5, 2015

Its a solid question. If the Hawks score and go on to win, Brady is left losing his last 3 Super Bowl appearances. I think he still remains in the conversation for top 5. However, the interception cemented his legacy.

Guy played great in the 4th quarter. Deserves his credit. Legacies are overblown. While he has lost 2 Super Bowls on flukey plays, he also won 4 in the last minute. Any changes along those lines and who knows what we say about him. I don't have the stats, but I assume Brady has played well in all of those games. He could be 6-0, could be 0-6. He had no control over Manningham or Tyree or Butler.

Same thing for Wilson. If that pass is completed and Wilson wins the game (and MVP), he finishes with a QBR of 140, 2 TDs and 280 yards... on 13 completions. Game is fickle.

Evil_Shenanigans · Feb 5, 2015

The Proverbial double edged sword!

themunn · Feb 5, 2015

Brady is 2 Vinatieri field goals and 1 Malcolm Butler interception away from being a 5 time Superbowl loser. You'd think the greatest of all time would be a bit more convincing in his victories

Hasselbeck · Feb 5, 2015

themunn":1m88k8vz said:
Brady is 2 Vinatieri field goals and 1 Malcolm Butler interception away from being a 5 time Superbowl loser. You'd think the greatest of all time would be a bit more convincing in his victories

I can see this if Brady stunk it up.. he threw for 350 and 4 against the best secondary of the last 20 years (granted a secondary that was probably at 50% health).

Brady and Montana are the best to ever play.

WilsonMVP · Feb 5, 2015

Hasselbeck":jafzqwsb said:
themunn":jafzqwsb said:

Brady is 2 Vinatieri field goals and 1 Malcolm Butler interception away from being a 5 time Superbowl loser. You'd think the greatest of all time would be a bit more convincing in his victories

Click to expand...

I can see this if Brady stunk it up.. he threw for 350 and 4 against the best secondary of the last 20 years (granted a secondary that was probably at 50% health).

Brady and Montana are the best to ever play.

I now honestly believe after thinking about it after the superbowl that Brady is an above avearge borderline elite QB that is elevated to Elite because of Bill and the schemes he plays in. Think about that game we just watched. Most of Bradys passes were super easy and the WR was open most of the time. Think about how hard Wilsons throws are most of the time and how he has to place it perfectly or scramble around until someone actually gets open

i still think Rodgers is the best QB in the league since he has started. The Packers as a team would be absolute garbage without Rodgers and Mccarthy is a terrible coach compared to Bill

Pats on the other hand still managed to win 11 games with Matt Cassell at QB

kf3339 · Feb 5, 2015

Bloodrunsblue":3brfjwrc said:
What would the media take on Brady been if the Hawks score there? Seems that one play could have turned his legacy either way. The media is just slobbering all over him now, but would would they have said "past his prime" or "unable to close out games"?

You can't be considered the best of all time, when in the same breath you are a known cheater. Just saying.

HuskerHawk · Feb 5, 2015

That is such BS. Go and watch Inside the NFL, as well as the other countless hours of mic'd up stuff from Brady. He's the greatest (him or Joe) for a number of reasons; he's up there in bulk stats, obviously the career wins, and the four SBs, but his leadership and competitiveness put him over the top. Tom Brady is a killer who never folds or is intimidated by anything. What other quarterback could've done what he did against Seattle, on that stage, under those circumstances. Yes I know we were banged up, but like Sherman said we could've had his heart several times but that never happens to him. Rodgers and Manning are great, better in a vacuum in some ways (Rodgers at his best ascends to a Godly level, it's ridiculous) but they are both for a lack of a better term pu*@ies. Brady is man. Russell Wilson is the only other like him imo. With them you always have a chance.

kf3339 · Feb 5, 2015

HuskerHawk":19umdg90 said:
That is such BS. Go and watch Inside the NFL, as well as the other countless hours of mic'd up stuff from Brady. He's the greatest (him or Joe) for a number of reasons; he's up there in bulk stats, obviously the career wins, and the four SBs, but his leadership and competitiveness put him over the top. Tom Brady is a killer who never folds or is intimidated by anything. What other quarterback could've done what he did against Seattle, on that stage, under those circumstances. Yes I know we were banged up, but like Sherman said we could've had his heart several times but that never happens to him. Rodgers and Manning are great, better in a vacuum in some ways (Rodgers at his best ascends to a Godly level, it's ridiculous) but they are both for a lack of a better term pu*@ies. Brady is man. Russell Wilson is the only other like him imo. With them you always have a chance.

NOPE.

BirdsCommaAngry · Feb 6, 2015

Brady did lead his offense to overcoming a 10 point 4th quarter deficit against the best defense in the league (albeit heavily injured). When we want to discredit Belichick, we say he's a product of Brady. When we want to discredit Brady, we say he's a product of Belichick. We can say these things because they're exaggerations of the truth that both men benefit greatly from the other. Brady is one of if not the single best QB of all-time and Belichick is one of the greatest coaches. In the end, it took not ideal clock management putting us in a position where we felt we had to pass, a questionable play-call, not ideal pass-catching technique from Lockette, and ultimately, an incredible play by Butler for us to be beat by such great opponents.

Bloodrunsblue · Feb 6, 2015

Just for arguments sake, I wonder if the QB is as interchangeable as the rest of the parts seem to be. They plug in new WRs and RBs and they just produce. Maybe any QB running Belichicks scheme would be "elite".

BayAreafbfan · Feb 6, 2015

Bloodrunsblue":3dlhfq6f said:
Just for arguments sake, I wonder if the QB is as interchangeable as the rest of the parts seem to be. They plug in new WRs and RBs and they just produce. Maybe any QB running Belichicks scheme would be "elite".

Seem to be the case for Matt Cassell. He is a bonafide scrub and went 11-5 with that team.

Being 43 years old I have seen games going back to the early 80's and I give Belicheck credit for devising schemes that work in a era that QB's and WR's feel confident about not getting blasted by hard hitiing defenders with their underneath dink and dunk.

I wonder how long these midget slot receivers and Brady would have lasted playing in an era of physical football?

For that reason alone you really can't compare QBs of different eras. Pats fans make the excuse that Brady is better because he played in six Super Bowls to Joe's four. Brady never had to contend with the loaded teams in the playoffs like the Niners did. Those Giants, Redskins and Bears clubs were loaded and won SIX Super Bowls between them in a span of 10 years. Any one of those defenses and ( I'd add Buddy Ryans Eagles Defenses) as well would have crushed Brady and his midget slot machines.

Instead he goes against Manning's soft defensive teams (Colts and Broncos), a division that has been weaksauce for 14 years with an occasional Ravens/Steeler team in the post season that's up and down. No reason why he's been to the Super Bowl six times. Notice he failed twice when a decent defense (Giants) shut him down with a stacked offence putting up record numbers all season.

worstsbcalleva · Feb 7, 2015

Brady made Brady the best of all time.

50yrpatsfan · Feb 8, 2015

BayAreafbfan":2jb86935 said:
Bloodrunsblue":2jb86935 said:

Just for arguments sake, I wonder if the QB is as interchangeable as the rest of the parts seem to be. They plug in new WRs and RBs and they just produce. Maybe any QB running Belichicks scheme would be "elite".

Click to expand...

Seem to be the case for Matt Cassell. He is a bonafide scrub and went 11-5 with that team.

Being 43 years old I have seen games going back to the early 80's and I give Belicheck credit for devising schemes that work in a era that QB's and WR's feel confident about not getting blasted by hard hitiing defenders with their underneath dink and dunk.

I wonder how long these midget slot receivers and Brady would have lasted playing in an era of physical football?

For that reason alone you really can't compare QBs of different eras. Pats fans make the excuse that Brady is better because he played in six Super Bowls to Joe's four. Brady never had to contend with the loaded teams in the playoffs like the Niners did. Those Giants, Redskins and Bears clubs were loaded and won SIX Super Bowls between them in a span of 10 years. Any one of those defenses and ( I'd add Buddy Ryans Eagles Defenses) as well would have crushed Brady and his midget slot machines.

Instead he goes against Manning's soft defensive teams (Colts and Broncos), a division that has been weaksauce for 14 years with an occasional Ravens/Steeler team in the post season that's up and down. No reason why he's been to the Super Bowl six times. Notice he failed twice when a decent defense (Giants) shut him down with a stacked offence putting up record numbers all season.

Cassell's a half decent QB who's been a starter for 7 years now - not what I'd call a scrub. He went 11-5 with the same team that Brady went 16-0 with. That would be the same as taking a 12-4 team and making it 7-9. Think Brady may have been missed a little bit there?

ScottWade · Feb 8, 2015

I can't believe that a Hawk fan would even bring this up?

In my eyes, Wilson is an elite QB with a unique style that NFL fans will finally get used to. He threw an INT at the most important moment, but that does not define him, although by next season you will hear about it from fans of those other teams (not Pats or Hawks). You're gonna find out real fast...Wilson will win one or two more SBs and good luck defending his legacy cause you'll hear about it...

And, uh, this is a team sport, but unique in that the coaches are an important cog in the game, often more important than the players on the field. When a coach makes a mistake it is a team mistake. That's football, not hockey or even baseball (stud pitcher) or basketball where one superstar can completely dominate in spite of the coaching/managing. Brady can't stop Wilson and Wilson can't stop Brady (they both just sit and watch).

CodeWarrior · Feb 8, 2015

Brady is a phenomenal player. One of the best of all time without question. Saying anything else is just silly.

Bloodrunsblue · Feb 12, 2015

ScottWade":3dd77fn6 said:
And, uh, this is a team sport, but unique in that the coaches are an important cog in the game, often more important than the players on the field. When a coach makes a mistake it is a team mistake. That's football, not hockey or even baseball (stud pitcher) or basketball where one superstar can completely dominate in spite of the coaching/managing. Brady can't stop Wilson and Wilson can't stop Brady (they both just sit and watch).

So you are saying that, given the success of the Patriots with all of the roster turn over at skill positions, then QB is no different? The sum is greater than the parts; therefore Brady could be replaced by any QB and the team would maintain success?

Uncle Si · Feb 12, 2015

Bloodrunsblue":38xgedav said:
ScottWade":38xgedav said:

And, uh, this is a team sport, but unique in that the coaches are an important cog in the game, often more important than the players on the field. When a coach makes a mistake it is a team mistake. That's football, not hockey or even baseball (stud pitcher) or basketball where one superstar can completely dominate in spite of the coaching/managing. Brady can't stop Wilson and Wilson can't stop Brady (they both just sit and watch).

Click to expand...

So you are saying that, given the success of the Patriots with all of the roster turn over at skill positions, then QB is no different? The sum is greater than the parts; therefore Brady could be replaced by any QB and the team would maintain success?

I think his point is quite clear. Cassel went 11-5.

Its a testament to the system and the coach as much as to the QB. The two compliment each other quite well.

Ramfan128 · Feb 20, 2015

WilsonMVP":firbp3fx said:
Hasselbeck":firbp3fx said:

themunn":firbp3fx said:

Brady is 2 Vinatieri field goals and 1 Malcolm Butler interception away from being a 5 time Superbowl loser. You'd think the greatest of all time would be a bit more convincing in his victories

Click to expand...

I can see this if Brady stunk it up.. he threw for 350 and 4 against the best secondary of the last 20 years (granted a secondary that was probably at 50% health).

Brady and Montana are the best to ever play.

Click to expand...

I now honestly believe after thinking about it after the superbowl that Brady is an above avearge borderline elite QB that is elevated to Elite because of Bill and the schemes he plays in. Think about that game we just watched. Most of Bradys passes were super easy and the WR was open most of the time. Think about how hard Wilsons throws are most of the time and how he has to place it perfectly or scramble around until someone actually gets open

i still think Rodgers is the best QB in the league since he has started. The Packers as a team would be absolute garbage without Rodgers and Mccarthy is a terrible coach compared to Bill

Pats on the other hand still managed to win 11 games with Matt Cassell at QB

Yikes. This is quite a story you're telling yourself. Reality is, Brady is the best QB of all time. He's one of the top two all time at playing QB pre-snap, he's deadly accurate, and is probably the best leader at the QB position of all time. The clip of him when they lost against the Packers in the regular season says it all IMO.

On the flip side, Russell Wilson on a worse team (like my Rams), would be thought of as a firmly average QB. If you took his skill set and height and put it on a classic drop back passer, that guy probably wouldn't even be in the NFL.

Matt Cassel was an aberration, and he ended up starting for several years and being an average QB. If Brady got hurt now, that team would fall apart. Injuries are a part of the game - for Brady to do what he did to Seattle in the 4th quarter....should go down as one of the best performances of all time.

seahawkfreak · Feb 20, 2015

You have to have both in the NFL. A good QB and a good scheme. Same with a good RB and a good OL to have a good running game.

Bevell has made Brady the "Best of all time", but...

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