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 Post subject: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:02 pm 
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Just complete a 4 round mock draft with others posters on KFFL.com. Very basic format. No player trades, pick trades limited to before draft trading. Each mocker took 2-3 teams and made the selections live.

Here's how it went for Seattle.

I traded #25 and our 6th to the Chiefs for #34, #96 (4th round) and a 4th next year. My thinking was the value between 25 and 40 is fairly grouped together, and I'd be able to get the same quality player 10 picks later as I could get at 25. The trade down meant I missed the opportunity to select Desmond Trufant, John Jenkins, DeAndre Hopkins, and Datone Jones.

#34 overall - DT Kawann Short: I wanted to get a quick twitch penatrating DT with one of my first two picks, and after Richardon, I consider Short the best of the bunch. I probably would've picked him at 25 anyway. Other possibilities inlcuded Barrett Jones, Jonathan Cooper, Justin Hunter, Robert Woods and Alex Okafor.

#56 overall - WR Da'Rick Rogers: After Cordorelle Patterson, I consider Rogers to be the only elite potential WR in the draft. There are lots of quality #2's, borderline #1's, but Patterson adn Rogers are the only ones I see with Pro Bowl potential. Roger's has major off field issues, but has the length, speed and polish to make an immediate impact. Other options included Sylvester Williams, Brandon Williams, Tavon Austin and Margus Hunt.

#87 overall - TE Jordan Reed: Reed is my favorite target at TE. Great speed and RAC ability, smooth route runner who gives Wilson a deep middle target. Montori Hughes was the only other possibility for me.

#96 overall (from the Chiefs) - OLB Sio Moore: Moore is a former DE who transitioned to linebacker and showed suprising cover skills. Great length and solid speed, he's a jack of all trades linebacker who can rush the passer as well.

#120 overall - OL David Bakhtiari: Athletic but undersized tackle who has played both RT and LT in college, but I project him as a guard for us. His athleticism will be huge on pulls, traps and second level blocking, but he'll need to add some bulk and upper body strength to be a force in the power run game.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:06 pm 
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Looks like a solid draft.


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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:09 pm 
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nice job

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:27 pm 
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I like it.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:58 pm 
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I'd be doing backflips with that draft.


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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:33 pm 
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Not to mention the fact that you saved the organization money by trading out of a first round contract. I'm not thrilled about all your picks, but still pretty solid top to bottom. OH, bye the way what school did that OL play for?

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 5:47 pm 
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Colorado.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 7:19 pm 
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I'd actually like to see a trade out of the first round. I know the name, but, I'll admit I don't know much about Rogers... but, doesn't he have character issues? Or, was it grades? Anyway... if Tavon Austin is available at #56... you take him.

Excellent (mock) draft, though, btw.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2013 8:30 pm 
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Sio Moore in the 3rd... :0190l:


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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 8:54 am 
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very impressive draft, nice job! We would be sitting pretty


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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 1:55 pm 
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Actually Sio Moore in the 4th (2nd pick in the rd).

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:05 pm 
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Who did that idiot KC GM pick with #25?


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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 5:30 pm 
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TeamoftheCentury wrote:
I'd actually like to see a trade out of the first round. I know the name, but, I'll admit I don't know much about Rogers... but, doesn't he have character issues? Or, was it grades? Anyway... if Tavon Austin is available at #56... you take him.

Excellent (mock) draft, though, btw.


I'm like the Hawks with Russell Wilson and Bruce Irvin on Tavon Austin. If he's there at 25 I take him, because I could care less where a guy is drafted. I just want to get my guy. I know that the team is smart enough to get multiple first round talents in rounds 1-5. They've done it before, they'll do it again. Austin is the closest thing to Percy Harvin entering this year's draft, and who wouldn't take Harvin in a redraft at 25? Everybody would of course. So I think it's worth it.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:35 pm 
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aawolf wrote:
Who did that idiot KC GM pick with #25?


Desmond Trufant.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 6:39 pm 
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SharkHawk wrote:
TeamoftheCentury wrote:
I'd actually like to see a trade out of the first round. I know the name, but, I'll admit I don't know much about Rogers... but, doesn't he have character issues? Or, was it grades? Anyway... if Tavon Austin is available at #56... you take him.

Excellent (mock) draft, though, btw.


I'm like the Hawks with Russell Wilson and Bruce Irvin on Tavon Austin. If he's there at 25 I take him, because I could care less where a guy is drafted. I just want to get my guy. I know that the team is smart enough to get multiple first round talents in rounds 1-5. They've done it before, they'll do it again. Austin is the closest thing to Percy Harvin entering this year's draft, and who wouldn't take Harvin in a redraft at 25? Everybody would of course. So I think it's worth it.


Harvin has three inches and 25 pounds on Austin at this point, and Harvin hasn't exactly been the paragon of durability in his career. Austin is at best 2nd round talent. IMO he's closer to Dexter McCluster than he is to Harvin

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2013 10:51 pm 
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McGruff wrote:
SharkHawk wrote:
TeamoftheCentury wrote:
I'd actually like to see a trade out of the first round. I know the name, but, I'll admit I don't know much about Rogers... but, doesn't he have character issues? Or, was it grades? Anyway... if Tavon Austin is available at #56... you take him.

Excellent (mock) draft, though, btw.


I'm like the Hawks with Russell Wilson and Bruce Irvin on Tavon Austin. If he's there at 25 I take him, because I could care less where a guy is drafted. I just want to get my guy. I know that the team is smart enough to get multiple first round talents in rounds 1-5. They've done it before, they'll do it again. Austin is the closest thing to Percy Harvin entering this year's draft, and who wouldn't take Harvin in a redraft at 25? Everybody would of course. So I think it's worth it.


Harvin has three inches and 25 pounds on Austin at this point, and Harvin hasn't exactly been the paragon of durability in his career. Austin is at best 2nd round talent. IMO he's closer to Dexter McCluster than he is to Harvin


Thanks for the explanation/justification, but like I said... I am at the point where I could give two craps about "measurables" or "draft value". Everybody has their own little draft system. Mine is to grab the guy I want as soon as I want to in order to assure nobody else does. It's crazy, but here's the thing. I'm not an NFL GM.

However.... I wanted 3 guys out of last year's draft: 1- Russell Wilson 2- Bobby Wagner 3- Robert Turbin. You can ask anybody that knows me if that's who I wanted the Hawks to take. I obviously know you won't, but I wanted those players and thought they'd make a difference.

Now... in my "stupid assed draft system" I go get those players and I don't care what order I take them in, because to me they all fill a void and make the team better. So if I take Wilson in the first round, Turbin in the 2nd, and Wagner in the 3rd, then it is no different to me than grabbing Wagner in the 2nd, Wilson in the 3rd, and Turbin in the 4th. It is a totally asinine way of looking at things. I get that. But I also feel that in the end, if you get the players you want, then why does it matter where they were picked? Some first round talent ALWAYS drops inexplicably, and some 5th round talent ALWAYS gets picked in the first. It is a matter of being right more than you're wrong and getting the players you think will help your team.

So to me... I don't care if Austin is a 2nd round talent.... if I want him bad enough (which I do) I go get him in the 1st IF I have a hunch that somebody else will take him before my 2nd round pick. It makes sense in my world because I don't have to make a trade to move up in the 2nd. I retain my 2nd round pick and all later picks (which is where the great GM's strike gold... look at the Walsh era in SF and what he did in the mid-to late rounds). I feel like a guy that is obviously sliding may make it to my 2nd round pick (a guy I would have taken in the first) and I make the "for sure" Austin pick and then get the leftover players that slipped for no apparent or stupid reasons that I had pegged as firsts in the 2nd. In the end? I have the same 2 players. With the slotting in draft picks pay, I end up paying the same total amount. It really matters to me zero what order I take players in.

I know, this will be picked apart and laughed at and guys will talk about what a buffoon I am and how I don't understand draft pick values, and on and on and the whole Jimmie Johnson system, and I'll say in fact I do understand it. I understand it more than most would ever believe. But... I'm at a point in my life where I see a player and decide, "That guy could help, I want him on my team... I will go get him before somebody else does."

I think Schneider is that type of guy. This isn't to discount his scouting at all, because he's a master. I know his work ethic and organizational skills are impeccable and amazingly thorough. I know he's got a draft board he's working on 24/7 365. But I also know that he had a similar feeling to what I did on Wilson, Wagner, and Turbin. He watched the draft closely, he saw a run on LBer's and he snatched up Wagner in the 2nd, knowing that it was unlikely he'd make it to the third (and I can guarantee he wouldn't have). People were angry he didn't trade up for the guy who went before him, but Schneider was likely happy either way.

He then saw the run on QB's (where the backups start coming off the board like Foles and the like) and he jumped at Wilson because he was concerned he wouldn't make it to the 4th (and rightfully so, you don't risk it), and he knew that by doing so he was taking away one player that several teams were looking for previous to us in the first, and once Wilson was gone then he locked in on his next target. There were some who said Turbin could go in the 2nd when he first declared. Others said "Oh, he's like a 3rd-5th round talent". But regardless of all of that... Schneider and Pete wanted a powerful back who could replace Lynch and also was a good receiver out of the backfield. There were a few available, and backs tend to go in that range, so with his 4th he snags Turbin. So he's got his playmakers on offense and defense at the most coveted positions in DE, MLB, QB, RB all locked up in the first 4 rounds.

Now I challenge any draftnik to look at our top 4 picks and say any of them were bad. They can, and will, and do because of this perceived "value" of each draft pick and its slot and so on and so forth. But to give you 4 random picks and come out of it with Irvin, Wagner, Wilson, and Turbin is stellar. You can roll the dice and take any of the 4 in any of the rounds now... see it does NOT matter where they were picked. You got the 4 guys you want. They could have taken Wilson in round 1 and everybody would have hooted and hollered, and then Irvin MAY have been available in round 2, but probably not.... so in my mind Schneider played it perfectly. He used 4 picks (doesn't matter what round/pick/order/position/etc.) and got 4 players he wanted. Then he did something crazier and grabbed other guys who made the final roster with his remaining picks.

So here's what I'm saying after just going on and on and on... If you like somebody... Draft them. Because if you're as good as Schneider it doesn't matter where you pick them. You'll get the guys you want. He has 10 draft picks this year. Correct? He won't even be able to find enough roster spots for all of them. What one position of need do we really have right now that is needed above all else? Probably guys that can rush the passer, and a gamebreaker. I don't see any amazing talents at rushing the passer that typically make it to 25. But I do see a gamebreaker in Tavon Austin.

So I'm saying I personally would draft him in the first, and I'd be laughed at by Mel Kiper, just like Schneider was when he took Russ in the 3rd. I don't care about weight, height, or anything else. I've watched Austin play and to me he makes plays after getting the ball in his hands just like Russ did in college. That is the measurable I look at now. I don't even delve into the other stuff. You're comparing Harvin's weight and height, and I'm comparing production and FIT. Austin would be a perfect fit in our offensive scheme. Harvin is always hurt (Austin is not, so size isn't a factor).

Harvin is whining about money (Austin will make what he is slotted to make and the team will control him for multiple years). Harvin has migraines. Austin does not. Harvin plays WR, RB, KR. Austin does too. They are both gamebreakers. So the size argument and all of that? I'm beyond it for good. Guys like Baldwin, Russell Wilson, even Red Bryant playing DE have changed my mind on size. The Hawks will put a guy in a position to succeed. I think Austin is one of about 20 guys I've watched closely that would help here, but I think he'd help a ton more than the other 19. That's my view.

If I could take any two players in the draft I'd take Ziggy Ansah and Tavon Austin. Why? Because I think Ziggy was the best pass rusher I watched all year and he's incredibly fast and strong. Tavon Austin was the best playmaker I saw all year (short of Johnny Manziel, who isn't available and isn't a target for this team as we already have a QB who plays that way). So those are the two guys I'd want. If they were there for the picking and the draft was falling my way I'd do what I had to in order to get them. But luckily for all of you, the Hawks only draft the players I want about 1 out of every 10 times. But I will say I hit it big this year on 3 of our first 4 and that makes me happy, because I think in my head now that the team looks for similar traits that I look for. That's a good feeling.

I think they will change traits they look for from year to year, but did you notice that Wagner, Russ, Turbin, and Irvin were all nothing but great in interviews, in public, in private, etc.? They were all stellar teammates and played hard, and fit a certain mold. Highly intelligent guys who had worked their butt off in some regard. Russell... overcoming the height stuff and switching schools and juggling sports while getting amazing grades. Bobby Wagner had to lead a college that was a perennial loser and call the D and came from being too skinny to be recruited, to calling the D from the field as essentially their D coordinator and putting on weight right up through the preseason (and improving every single week on his job). Turbin coming out of a rough neighborhood and having a really hard family life with the disabilities in his family, but going and ASKING his coach if it was ok if he went pro so he could get extra care for his siblings and get them somewhere safer with better facilities and treatments? This guy was told he was too small and wasn't fast enough. Ha. Then Bruce Irvin was written off as a junky and "undraftable". The truth comes out that several more teams wanted him late 1st/early 2nd, and he has shown nothing but maturity and a team player attitude from day 1.

The Hawks know their picks. They know everything about them. They are wise. They get good guys (Winston Guy was a bit of a mess, but they are still letting him work through it and gave him a chance, which to me was classy and showed that we don't give up on you until you force us to!).

That's way too much I know... but it is my total theory on the draft now. Draft a guy too early rather than too late. Take Turbin in the 4th, because it's too risky he won't be there in the fifth. What do you lose? Nothing. You gain a Robert Turbin. Let guys like Kiper second guess and throw out ridiculous comments. The Hawks got the players they wanted.

Now my mock is I want the player I want. I will get him. Everybody will crack up. But I'm ok with that, because those guys will reward you. Tavon Austin IS an NFL player. He will play will. He may not be better than Percy Harvin, but he may be better. If so, I sure hope he's on our team and not in a 49ers uni because they snatched him a couple of picks after we drafted a project. We need players who can move with the ball and "tilt" the field right? Austin is a field tilter regardless of his size or arm length or vertical jump. I can feel it. Watch the guy move after he gets the ball. He is a machine. I'm very grateful he signed with me early. It's good being an NFL agent. Hopefully my Tavon manifesto works, because I need that 10% buddy. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:15 am 
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Super post Shark! It's the off-season and you got me fired up. Hey if you see value in a guy, I'm glad to see you throw it down bud, would write more but I've got to go check out a couple of guys. Oh, so far the guy thats impressed the most, Joplo Bartu LB Texas st. in the later rounds. cheers

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 3:39 am 
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I agree with everything you said about picking your guy. We don't disagree about the system, board, etc. we do disagree about Austin. That's all. It's not personal, and I don't think you are "stupid assed" or any other pejorative you want to put in my mouth.

I hate that the draft gets so personal around here . . .

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 8:22 am 
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Shark,

TL;DR. Just kidding, I love your fire and you seem to have an eye for guys that fit the Hawks. I agree that Pete will take whom he wants rather than worry about the talking heads "value"

I haven't read about your work situation lately but have you considered writing a blog?

Hope you are feeling/doing well, brother

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:01 am 
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McGruff wrote:
I agree with everything you said about picking your guy. We don't disagree about the system, board, etc. we do disagree about Austin. That's all. It's not personal, and I don't think you are "stupid assed" or any other pejorative you want to put in my mouth.

I hate that the draft gets so personal around here . . .


No man... I was agreeing with you. Sorry if it was taken personally, because I didn't take anything personally. I was just throwing out my wacky "system" for drafting. It flies in the face of every draft convention, thus why I stated the "measurables" that so many guys rely on.

I think it is kind of a different way, and I realize I have no proof and it sounds like nonsense. I totally get it. I read it over before I posted it and realized I sounded like a complete lunatic, but I've gone completely opposite of the "old system" (draft guys that did well at Notre Dame and Harvard and won the Heisman) and the "new system" (what I call the "Mel Kiper rules" 40 time, arm length, 'burst', etc.). Then I've also eschewed the sort of Moneyball stathead kind of way, which is more or less a combo of the old and new, but adding in a lot of weird stats that those who aren't into statistics or carry a degree in math (which I do so I understand... but I just don't really like them).

I'm getting older and just sort of winging it and going with my gut. I'm thinking back on when my views started changing from what made sense to the "gut" system I feel strongly about now. It's when Joe Gibbs inserted Doug Williams in at QB at what seemed like the weirdest possible moment and rolled to a Super Bowl. At the time I was confused. I always thought Doug had the best arm in football, but his stats weren't there. He turned the ball over. He didn't have great touch. He threw the ball too hard. His stats in Tampa stunk. I thought his career was toast.

Then he goes in for the Skins because Schroeder was ineffective and was getting hurt, but they were still winning. Gibbs just threw caution to the wind and it paid off big. I sort of threw that out as an anomaly. But then as years have passed I've seen too many situations like that where a guy is just a "gamer" and his stats, measurements, etc. and the school he played at didn't matter. You'd have a lot of big school Jim Druckenmillers that did NOTHING, and then here comes Steve McNair and he dominates. The little school kid that looked the part played the part.

I just started noticing more and more guys like that. I'm as wrong as often as Mel Kiper... but that's the thing. I'm only as wrong as often as a guy who makes a living doing it. And I'm betting that you're right more often than Mel and I combined.

I just don't buy into the NFL "expert" views on draft picks anymore. Honestly... trust me... I think your draft ideas are great. I'm just throwing in my theory of drafting here because the guys get mad when we make a new post, so I was piggybacking. It wasn't my intent to down anybody.

I think you see players the same way I do.... you look for reasons that are going to make them succeed. That's awesome, and that's what should happen. Guys that do well in college typically are winners, whether they are at Utah State, Wisconsin, Florida, Cal, or Wazzu or even Idaho. It doesn't matter. Good players play good. I know it's strange to some of the Mel Kiper's of the world, but it's true.

I like Mike Mayock's analysis, but I think even he overdoes it a bit and starts talking about hip swivel and crap. I didn't hear him saying Richard Sherman was a future star. I didn't say it either. I just think that there is probably somebody here that watched Stanford a lot and said, "Whoa... this kid is good." I think that person was Pete and/or John. That's why I'm stoked they are in charge. I think they use a combo system that takes all factors into account, and I think Schneider is brilliant at snagging guys in the right rounds by watching the trends of when guys go, because other GM's are SO predictable and if a division opponent grabs a LBer, then you know they soon will too, or they will do the exact opposite and grab a guy to counteract that guy. See what I'm saying?

I think the blogs and so forth have opened up a whole new world of scouting, and I say keep up the great work all of you! I learn more here than I've ever learned from a "prospectus". I trust you guys. There are more combined hours on this board that watch specific guys than a guy like Mel can put in.

I've just sort of gravitated to the Chucky idea that if a guy looks the part and wants it bad enough and has the talent, then go get him and don't look back. I realize it's loony. But I think together we could all sit down in a room and put together a darn good draft because of the differences we have. That's a GOOD thing. When you have a room full of yes-men, you end up with the Yankees. They are usually pretty good. But they haven't won a World Series in a while and their payroll is obscene. Nobody questions anybody else. I think in having a group that looks for certain traits and homes in on a guy that a great draft can come about, and I think that is precisely how the Seahawks operate. I think we operate like that on a different scale and we aren't "playing for keeps". We're just throwing out the players we like and justifying it using whatever system we prefer. Mine is just narrow and stupid really. I totally go by the eyeball test now.

If a guy plays well and dominates, then I think he can do the same in the pros. I never once saw Aaron Curry dominate a game. Never once. I thought he was a big strong guy that was an average football player and a great athlete. I didn't see him terrorizing QB's or hitting guys like Kam did to VD. He was there and played ok. I saw Russell Wilson strike fear into every opponent. I saw Robert Turbin run all over good defenses. I saw Bobby Wagner take a team that was typically ranked as the worst team in D-I football and lead them to heights they haven't seen since Merlin Olsen left school. So that's all I do. It's not a complete way. It's lazy. I understand. I just want to put what info I have out there and let others figure out what they'd do and discuss it. That's all. Simple as that. No judgement. No mean to discredit any of you or your methods. Just a justification for why I do what I do. And why I blab so much (but am really going to cut it down... I promise. I think I've explained it as clearly as I can!). :)

Keep up the good work all of you!

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 10:12 am 
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Kam is a good example. I wanted Kam more than other player that year because, while he didn't do everything well, the things he did do made me say "wow." I liked him more than Taylor Mays, and people thought I was crazy, but mays had no wow factor his last year in college.

Same with ET vs. Berry. I had ET ranked higher because of his range, and fact that he made more wow plays.

I'm just not sure about Austin. It's hypocritical for a Seahawk fan to say "a guy that size has never done it in the NFL" but seriously, how many 5'8"' 170lb receivers would you label as elite NFL talents? But maybe he's the one, and if they/you think he is truly exceptional, by all means, take him.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:30 am 
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Steve Smith comes to mind. I don't care how tall he's listed. The dude is TINY. Believe me. Besides Austin is a guy who plays multiple positions. Last time I checked up on such things, they were both listed as the same height (5'9") and Austin is as filled out at this point as Steve was in college and has room to fill out more. He's an "athlete" like Devin Hester. He will likely be a returner for a while and will be put in at different times and different positions. You design plays for a guy like that. He gets the ball, he moves fast, he's slippery.

He reminds me very much of Barry Sanders in his movement, but as a receiver. High praise indeed, but if you can get the ball to him on a screen play and let him run, then why not? I've seen him catch the ball across the middle and break double digit tackles for TD's. That can't be taught. He doesn't take many hits because he's slippery. He catches the ball because he has amazing hands. When I was a kid there were 2 guys playing as returners and receivers that were about 5'6". One was on the Browns, one was on the Chargers. Sorry I'm blanking on their names. I think one was Little Train James. Anyway, they were good players and played fine.

If Austin is 5'8" and Steve Smith is 5'9" and one of the most durable receivers in the league (and Smith passed the eyeball test with me as I watched his career at Utah) and was ten feet away from him on the sidelines when he busted his neck. I saw him again later on with screws in his skull wearing a full halo... I've never doubted a guy who was small again... because Steve made it and has been tremendous for years. I see Steve Smith in Austin, but with the ability to play RB, KR, slot, run fly patterns, whatever. He's fast and moves great with the ball. He doesn't take a lot of big hits (if any) because he's too busy getting to the endzone.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:40 am 
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I like Tavon too and think he can do all that plus the things that Jacquizz Rodgers did to us in the playoff game. Kid was unreal. But I'm conflicted about that first round pick and would prefer Kawaan Short there if he is availkable.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:59 am 
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Austin doesn't look nearly as thick to me as Smith.

And you can point to Sanders. I can point to Reggie Bush, who couldn't get away with those stop-start moves at the pro level.

Like I said, I'm willing to be wrong and have been many times . . . But it's not about height to me, it's about the overall size. Austin is NOT built like Smith or MJD. He's much closer to Sproles, McCluster range.

But he is electric. I'll give you that.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 12:07 pm 
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I will say this . . . It wouldn't shock me at all to see the Seahawksick him in the first round. Pete and John both talk about unique athletes, and Austin is certainly unique.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Thu Feb 14, 2013 4:56 pm 
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McGruff wrote:
Austin doesn't look nearly as thick to me as Smith.

And you can point to Sanders. I can point to Reggie Bush, who couldn't get away with those stop-start moves at the pro level.

Like I said, I'm willing to be wrong and have been many times . . . But it's not about height to me, it's about the overall size. Austin is NOT built like Smith or MJD. He's much closer to Sproles, McCluster range.

But he is electric. I'll give you that.


Yes, but I'm saying I was on the sidelines next to Smith in college and he wasn't even as big as Austin is now. I was around him a lot for multiple years. He was downright skinny. He looked like Kelly Jennings. Many guys with that frame in college don't "thicken up" until they get to the pros and can bulk up. Smith was skinny and was like Austin but slower in college. Austin has the same frame Smith had and will bulk up if needed.

Reggie Bush was a difference maker in college for sure. I always said if Reggie Bush was lucky he'd have a career at best comparable with Eric Metcalf. I got laughed at mercilessly. I mean the laughing and skewering were non-stop. Well... I'd say I was wrong afterall. Reggie Bush is nowhere near as good as Eric Metcalf ever was.

So in my non-expert lunatic eyeball test I'd say what I always said about Reggie Bush. He's not that good and would have been lucky if he'd had a Metcalf-esque career. Eric was able to convert to receiver. I said the same stuff about Raghib Ismail. Again, laughed at, mocked, etc. I was right on him too. I'd say Austin reminds me of Steve Smith, and I said Steve Smith was going to be a star.... laughed at, mocked mercilessly, etc. I had many a discussion with my Hawk fan friends back prior to using .Net regularly (using Usenet) and said we had to get Smith. I got laughed at. He was no Joey Galloway apparently. Anyway... I put my money on a few players this year and stand by them, and will feel bad if the Hawks don't take them, but it will be their loss. My hope is that it doesn't come back to haunt us in a playoff game at some point is all.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Thanks for your credentials shark hawk.....I'm not sure they are really relevant to the arguement as they can't be proven, and everyone on this site seems to think they are master scouts.

With that said I don't see the Steve Smith comparison at all. I tend to agree with mcgruff.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:29 pm 
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Shark and I have always butted heads . . . I've just been gone a very long time.

And it's not so much that I disagree with Shark as much as I can't stand arrogance. I'm more often sharing about the ones I got wrong than I am boasting about the ones I got right.

FTR, upon further review Austin has more muscle on him than I remember . . . But I'm still skeptical that those moves will work at the next level.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 7:34 pm 
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I tend to pay attention to what Shark says because I have seen him proven right more than a few times. And I'm sure he will be the first to tell you that he's no expert, but he's not one of those loud mouths that occasionally show up here and voice their opinions on everything and on everyone elses "credentials" as if they are the final word on all things on the forums. He's just a fan with an opinion, one that he backs up with time spent studying prospects. And sometimes he's dead on.

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 Post subject: Re: "Real" Mock Draft
 Post Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2013 9:16 pm 
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I'm kind of conflicted on Austin. I could see him being Dante Hall, which even that wouldn't be horrible, but not what you hope to get with the 25th pick. I think Austin could be a bad first round pick for a lot of teams, but I also think we have the kind of offense he could flourish in. I wouldn't be upset if we took him.


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