Did We Flat Out Underestimate The Bills?

[AROS]

I've watched all the post-game shows from the local to national level. I've seen all the X's and O's breakdowns which is great because my football IQ is just, meh. I follow the ball. I don't pick up on the intricacies of the game within the game like some do. I am too emotionally attached. So when I watched people with real football understanding tell me through my TV screen that it was a matter of not making the proper adjustments, playing man coverage and blitzing too much which played right into their hands, I had to listen.

Apparently, now correct me if I am wrong, what I think I learned, is that the Seahawks played man and blitzed instead of playing cover 3 and zone. Is that right? Either way, the point is, apparently we didn't adjust to what the Bills were doing and that is when I point my finger at Carroll. How often have we heard Pete outcoach the opponent? Not trying to be mean here, I think he's the best coach we've ever had by and large, but when I think about it, I am pretty sure we hear much more about how he was outcoached in a game versus being the coach that outsmarted the other coach, win or loss.

I'm not trying to gloss over the fact that this game just stunk on many levels. Russell is human. Even the #1 offense can look sub-par from time to time. Just ask the Bucs how they feel after that 38-3 drubbing on national TV.

But I am left with this valid question. Did Pete and the Seahawks underestimate this Bills team to the detriment of a possible victory? I think they did, and that alone gives me pause.

 

[Appyhawk]

You don't think it's more likely we overestimated our own level more than underestimated that of the Bills?

We went into that game with little to no capability to run between the tackles. All they had to do was pin their ears back to rush Russ and cover in the secondary. They did both very well.

 

[Jerhawk]

It would be odd if they were looking past a 6-2 team.

But hey, maybe they were game planning for the Rams. They've had 2 weeks to prepare for us, it's only fair.

 

[TugHawk]

The Bills are a complete team, and if Pete and co. formed their opinion and strategy based on Buffalo’s losses, then they are incredibly naive. Buffalo has one of the leagues best defenses, albeit playing below their talent level until recently. Buffalo’s offense has been white hot most of the year, save for the past couple of weeks, which is somewhat at the fault of an injured Josh Allen. I think, if anything, perhaps Pete underestimated Josh Allen. Josh Allen looked like Jameis Winston last year. He, to the surprise of many, has really dialed it in this year and looks like he could quickly become one of the game’s elite QB’s. I understand that most QBs have the luxury of picking apart our baby back defense, but maybe Pete and Co. schemed extra soft because of the signal caller they thought they were going to face.

 

[AROS]

You don't think it's more likely we overestimated our own level more than underestimated that of the Bills?

No I don't. Obviously it's why I raised the question. I think we underestimated the Bills and you can look no further than Pete's comments after the game.

 

[LTH]

I've watched all the post-game shows from the local to national level. I've seen all the X's and O's breakdowns which is great because my football IQ is just, meh. I follow the ball. I don't pick up on the intricacies of the game within the game like some do. I am too emotionally attached. So when I watched people with real football understanding tell me through my TV screen that it was a matter of not making the proper adjustments, playing man coverage and blitzing too much which played right into their hands, I had to listen.

Apparently, now correct me if I am wrong, what I think I learned, is that the Seahawks played man and blitzed instead of playing cover 3 and zone. Is that right? Either way, the point is, apparently we didn't adjust to what the Bills were doing and that is when I point my finger at Carroll. How often have we heard Pete outcoach the opponent? Not trying to be mean here, I think he's the best coach we've ever had by and large, but when I think about it, I am pretty sure we hear much more about how he was outcoached in a game versus being the coach that outsmarted the other coach, win or loss.

I'm not trying to gloss over the fact that this game just stunk on many levels. Russell is human. Even the #1 offense can look sub-par from time to time. Just ask the Bucs how they feel after that 38-3 drubbing on national TV.

But I am left with this valid question. Did Pete and the Seahawks underestimate this Bills team to the detriment of a possible victory? I think they did, and that alone gives me pause.

Yeah he was out coached today... Pete is human too...every year there is a stinker game and I think this was it...

Sometimes things are difficult... The seahawks D is being tested right now... lets see how they work through this adversity... being able to work through adversity is a factor that creates champions... Carroll and his staff are challenged but they have proven in the past to be able to work through challenges there is no reason to believe they can not turn this thing around... the Talent is there they just need to get healthy and they need to gel... they have the whole 2nd half of the season to do it ....

LTH

 

[AROS]

Agreed LTH. We have the talent, that is not the issue. A lack of cohesiveness due to a lack of playing together is clearly one of the issues. Coaching is also something that needs to be improved. I would love to see Ken Norton step up and prove many of us fans wrong. Right now he's the easy target and for good reason. His track record is terrible and this season is doing him no favors.

I've always been a glass half full kind of dude and I will continue to be so when I say that the Seahawks will turn this around. Maybe not being suddenly a top 10 defense but I believe we can get this defense to be average by year's end which is all we need them to be to get to where we want to go.

 

[Fernie Hawks Fan]

I've watched all the post-game shows from the local to national level. I've seen all the X's and O's breakdowns which is great because my football IQ is just, meh. I follow the ball. I don't pick up on the intricacies of the game within the game like some do. I am too emotionally attached. So when I watched people with real football understanding tell me through my TV screen that it was a matter of not making the proper adjustments, playing man coverage and blitzing too much which played right into their hands, I had to listen.

Apparently, now correct me if I am wrong, what I think I learned, is that the Seahawks played man and blitzed instead of playing cover 3 and zone. Is that right? Either way, the point is, apparently we didn't adjust to what the Bills were doing and that is when I point my finger at Carroll. How often have we heard Pete outcoach the opponent? Not trying to be mean here, I think he's the best coach we've ever had by and large, but when I think about it, I am pretty sure we hear much more about how he was outcoached in a game versus being the coach that outsmarted the other coach, win or loss.

I'm not trying to gloss over the fact that this game just stunk on many levels. Russell is human. Even the #1 offense can look sub-par from time to time. Just ask the Bucs how they feel after that 38-3 drubbing on national TV.

But I am left with this valid question. Did Pete and the Seahawks underestimate this Bills team to the detriment of a possible victory? I think they did, and that alone gives me pause.

This is something that has been on my mind lately.
I hear quite a lot, AFTER A LOSS, about how Pete was outcoached but I can't seem to recall a game where Pete did the out-coaching (if that's a word?)

 

[Ramfan128]

Last year the Bills were a playoff team who didn't beat a truly good team all year.

So when the Rams came to town at 2-0, they were all juiced up. After that game, they went 3-2 with a lot of ugly against the Jets and uncompetitive losses to the Titans and Chiefs.

So with Seattle coming to town, similar to when they played the Rams, probably felt like they needed to prove themselves again and played the best game of the season against you.

Just throw this game out. These types of games are happening to every team this year - just throw it out

 

[Jerhawk]

Last year the Bills were a playoff team who didn't beat a truly good team all year.

So when the Rams came to town at 2-0, they were all juiced up. After that game, they went 3-2 with a lot of ugly against the Jets and uncompetitive losses to the Titans and Chiefs.

So with Seattle coming to town, similar to when they played the Rams, probably felt like they needed to prove themselves again and played the best game of the season against you.

Just throw this game out. These types of games are happening to every team this year - just throw it out

You're the coolest Rams fan I've ever met. Err... Read on a forum. Thank you.

I wouldn't necessarily say the Seahawks should throw this game out. They should use it as motivation. If you don't bring it every week, you'll lose. And our defense is pathetic and needs to look in the mirror.

 

[hawker84]

You don't think it's more likely we overestimated our own level more than underestimated that of the Bills?

We went into that game with little to no capability to run between the tackles. All they had to do was pin their ears back to rush Russ and cover in the secondary. They did both very well.

I respectfully disagree. I thought we were somewhat effective running the ball (to start the game). But once Buffalo pulled so far ahead we had no choice but to become one deminsional. Which allowed Buffalo to pin it's ears back on every play, hence 2 picks, 2 fumbles, 16 I believe qb knockdown? Of course the as usual unsuccessful runs on 2nd and long didn't help either.. JMO...

 

[Ramfan128]

Last year the Bills were a playoff team who didn't beat a truly good team all year.

So when the Rams came to town at 2-0, they were all juiced up. After that game, they went 3-2 with a lot of ugly against the Jets and uncompetitive losses to the Titans and Chiefs.

So with Seattle coming to town, similar to when they played the Rams, probably felt like they needed to prove themselves again and played the best game of the season against you.

Just throw this game out. These types of games are happening to every team this year - just throw it out

You're the coolest Rams fan I've ever met. Err... Read on a forum. Thank you.

I wouldn't necessarily say the Seahawks should throw this game out. They should use it as motivation. If you don't bring it every week, you'll lose. And our defense is pathetic and needs to look in the mirror.

True - I was just hoping Seattle could use it as motivation AFTER this week 8)

 

[LTH]

Agreed LTH. We have the talent, that is not the issue. A lack of cohesiveness due to a lack of playing together is clearly one of the issues. Coaching is also something that needs to be improved. I would love to see Ken Norton step up and prove many of us fans wrong. Right now he's the easy target and for good reason. His track record is terrible and this season is doing him no favors.

I've always been a glass half full kind of dude and I will continue to be so when I say that the Seahawks will turn this around. Maybe not being suddenly a top 10 defense but I believe we can get this defense to be average by year's end which is all we need them to be to get to where we want to go.

You have been a Seahawk fan for many years for as long as I have been reading this board... The Hawks under Carroll at this stage of the season usually are not playing their best football far from it. that's just the way it works as Carroll primes his teams to start to peak about the last 3 games of the season... usually they are working out the issues this year it's the D.. I could be wrong but I just think Carroll has earned the benefit of the doubt and that is why Im optimistic because I've seen it so many times... it might be that the Hawks win the SB and still fire Norton... I dont know what the dynamic is between Norton and Carroll... I guess I've just learned to trust Carroll...

LTH

 

[chris98251]

Pete likes to make a team one dimensional, he had that, but they were passing at will for a couple reasons, a secondary playing way off most plays, if your going to play Man then you better be jamming at the line to interfere with timing and routes. We were getting pass rush and pressure but made bail out passes easy for them.

Secondly the types of receivers they have are not the big physical guys, most are 6 ft and shorter and quick, receivers that have historically been a pain in the ass for our bigger corners to stay with. Additionally Adams was just back, Griffin Out, Dunbar hurt and should not have been playing, Reed, Diggs, Flowers, and Adams as well as whomever else was thrown in the mix having not played together as a unit.

With quick receivers that are cutting underneath for crossing patterns and or 7 and out patterns you need to be familiar with each other and communicate well, guys that are not familiar with each other no matter how good individually they are have to know who is going to be where and call handoffs etc. It has to be a glove of coverage working together. We were missing that.

Pete's Trust in them was also apparent, why I think they were playing so deep, nothing over the top mantra.

This fell into the Bills hands, quick WR getting a pass in stride can make a move and be gone for another ten or 15 yards and or break open. They were not getting hit and stuffed at the reception point many times to put their heads on a swivel.

RAC or YAC metrics were huge, why totals for the Bills were high.

Comes down to new people, injuries, communication and confidence by the players and Trust by Pete.

We got what we wanted with the Bills not Running, we didn't adjust well to them going all in on the pass, and Pete didn't let the secondary become physical with these smaller receivers.

 

[Sgt. Largent]

Agreed LTH. We have the talent, that is not the issue. A lack of cohesiveness due to a lack of playing together is clearly one of the issues. Coaching is also something that needs to be improved. I would love to see Ken Norton step up and prove many of us fans wrong. Right now he's the easy target and for good reason. His track record is terrible and this season is doing him no favors.

I've always been a glass half full kind of dude and I will continue to be so when I say that the Seahawks will turn this around. Maybe not being suddenly a top 10 defense but I believe we can get this defense to be average by year's end which is all we need them to be to get to where we want to go.

We have the talent when fully healthy.

There in lies the rub, we haven't been fully healthy since week 1, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

You can't play good defense with inferior corners, a bad D-line and LB's that can't cover in space. So what are teams doing to us? Throwing it like crazy.

Who wouldn't. There's no pass rush or good corners, it's a QB and offensive coordinators wet dream.

Pete and Norton are compounding this issue with terrible gameplanning and in game adjustments. Soft zone, no now we're blitzing, no now back to zone, no now more blitzing. There's no cohesive identity to this defense, and even they're starting to get frustrated with how they're being used and schemed.

When has Bobby EVER opened up to media and said things like "hey I finally was unleashed and allowed to make plays" like he said after the Niner game.

This defense needs a complete overhaul, from coordinators down to the backups.................and unfortunately that's not possible halfway through a season.

 

[chris98251]

Agreed LTH. We have the talent, that is not the issue. A lack of cohesiveness due to a lack of playing together is clearly one of the issues. Coaching is also something that needs to be improved. I would love to see Ken Norton step up and prove many of us fans wrong. Right now he's the easy target and for good reason. His track record is terrible and this season is doing him no favors.

I've always been a glass half full kind of dude and I will continue to be so when I say that the Seahawks will turn this around. Maybe not being suddenly a top 10 defense but I believe we can get this defense to be average by year's end which is all we need them to be to get to where we want to go.

We have the talent when fully healthy.

There in lies the rub, we haven't been fully healthy since week 1, especially on the defensive side of the ball.

You can't play good defense with inferior corners, a bad D-line and LB's that can't cover in space. So what are teams doing to us? Throwing it like crazy.

Who wouldn't. There's no pass rush or good corners, it's a QB and offensive coordinators wet dream.

Pete and Norton are compounding this issue with terrible gameplanning and in game adjustments. Soft zone, no now we're blitzing, no now back to zone, no now more blitzing. There's no cohesive identity to this defense, and even they're starting to get frustrated with how they're being used and schemed.

When has Bobby EVER opened up to media and said things like "hey I finally was unleashed and allowed to make plays" like he said after the Niner game.

This defense needs a complete overhaul, from coordinators down to the backups.................and unfortunately that's not possible halfway through a season.

This is why you can't blame Norton, Norton is aggressive by nature and has always been one as a player and when he was a position coach preached attack and intimidate. Why when desperation time he is allowed to be creative and send blitz's from all over. It's when Pete gets involved things look soft.

 

[olyfan63]

This is why you can't blame Norton, Norton is aggressive by nature and has always been one as a player and when he was a position coach preached attack and intimidate. Why when desperation time he is allowed to be creative and send blitz's from all over. It's when Pete gets involved things look soft.

Interesting take, definitely worth considering! Most of the board is on board with "Fire Norton!", but Pete didn't poll us. I can see that "Pete's conservatism is at fault" is a hypothesis worth considering. However, I don't think it was really our defense that lost this one for us.

I think both our coordinators got their butts kicked. Schotty even more than Norton. Norton's group got 7 sacks at least.

My take is that Schottenheimer got his butt absolutely kicked from the game planning angle, failed to adjust, was overly predictable, and nearly got Russell killed. Where were our screen passes to RBs? (Aside from the one that went for 20+) Where were quick passes to the TEs? Where were nearly ANY short, quick passes? Where was any use of up-tempo, no huddle offense? A huge indictment of our predictability... BUF clearly watched game tape from the 49ers game, where Russell threw a TD pass to DeeJay Dallas. We ran the same play, and Buffalo sniffed it out perfectly and destroyed it. Shades of SB49 and "The Pick".

Russell repeatedly got battered by send-the-house blitzes we failed to pick up. Yeah, some were on 3rd/4th and long, but plenty were on 12st/2nd down, I'd say in part due to the predictability of our playcalling and approach, and failure/inability to adjust. The result of Buffalo pressure was 4 turnovers by Russell, unheard of for a Pete Carroll team. Give Buffalo credit too, they had the plan, and put pressure on us. However, it was really the same defensive approach that Arizona ran at us near the end of our overtime loss, and you'd think Schotty would have learned from it and made adjustments.

Which means... the Rams will come out with this same disguised-multiple-blitz approach against us, and either Schotty (and/or Russell) has an adjustment, or it's a repeat of AZ + BUF, and Russell gets battered again, and we lose again.

 

[hawk45]

I think putting the blame on too much man and blitzing is facile analysis.

Pete can sit back in zone with corners 10 yards off because he doesn’t trust them not to get beat deep (blame Norton all you want clearly we do not trust our corners otherwise we’d play within 10 yards of the receiver) and get no pressure from his front 4 or even sending 5. Which is what we do a lot and everyone whines about.

Or he can try to send 6 and put the corners on an island and hope diggs gets there to help because Adams is either blitzing or wandering around lost in coverage.

This game after being killed with the former he tried the latter and got killed.

There may be some coaches who can disguise blitzes and mitigate the lack of personnel but Pete has never been that tactical wizard.

I think you need a *healthy* Dunbar which I don’t think we have, and then for diggs to babysit flowers. By the way, flowers actually had two good coverage plays downfield this game, credit where it’s due.

But the theory of the magic adjustment is just superficial reasoning IMO. Our corners need protection and they aren’t getting any from the front four and blitzing 6 is just Russian roulette. And diggs hasn’t been everywhere this year either.

 

[scutterhawk]

I think that Pete & Co. thought that Russell Wilson would be able to win in a shootout against Josh Allen, and to do it without having a decent Run game, & zero protection from a damned good pass rush Defense.
Pee Poor in game Coaching adjustments.
Dunbar is NOT playing @ 100% healthy, but who else did we have to throw in there in his place?
Pretty hard to adjust without having the physical tools to get the job done, NO Coach can make a silk purse with burlap.

 

[El Caliente]

Unless you live in Western New York nobody even knows that Buffalo has a football team. For a team with a 7-2 record nobody talks about them unless it’s to crap on Josh Allen.

I think the media sleeps on Buffalo like crazy, and will go to no end to trash Allen, but I doubt the Seahawks underestimated the Bills. Pete and that crew just needed Carson back. You guys will be fine.

Who Dat!