Dunlap released

[TwistedHusky]

Rebuilds stockpile and develop young, raw talent.

that isn't this.

The term you are looking for is 'window dressing'.

The goal is not to be better, but to look like you are better until you are far enough along that everyone just gives you a pass.

This is a series of moves to make it look like we are active while not actually doing much but shifting around the roster.

We are just rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic, still headed for the iceberg though....

 

[Ad Hawk]

So tell me this isn’t a rebuild again.
I’m not totally against a rebuild either, just call it what it is.

Why does it matter what it is called? Your term "rebuild" may not be the same as someone else's.

Strange thing to require...

Strange thing for you to get upset about. Just saying let’s call it what it obviously is.
There is no need for them to play words games about it.

I'm not upset in any way. Just curious... ...why it matters so much to you why the FO's term for their offseason transactions has to match yours?

I'm not defending them, either; but they're going to do what they always do: make many, many transactions bringing in new people, letting others go. Moving to a 3-4 D is an obvious re-structure, and if Dunlap doesn't fit that, so be it.

 

[Fade]

Not surprised. When I looked at their front 7 after they promoted Hurtt to DC, I pointed out most of the guys didn't fit a 3-4.


Green doesn't fit, Dunlap doesn't fit, Hyder doesn't fit. Even Poona doesn't fit, curious to see what they do with him.

Quinton Jefferson is a big get.

So right now their front 7 would be this.


DE-Shelby Harris----NT-Woods----DE-Jefferson

EDGE-Taylor---ILB-Brooks-----ILB-Barton----EDGE--Nwosu


I hope they can get another Edge guy in this draft, especially at the #9 pick. You can just never have enough of those guys.

A middle linebacker in the 2nd or 3rd would be nice to push Barton.

 

[sutz]

I want us to be worse, not better.

Yeah, I kinda get that vibe from you. :34853_doh:

 

[blackjack203]

Fade you just touched on one of my biggest questions about the 3-4. In short, I'm not entirely clear on what teams are looking for from each position (especially the front 7). I get that the ends need to be stout enough to stop the run and that you need a stopper at the nose. That said, what is about Green's abilities make him a poor fit. Too light? Genuinely curious if you don't mind sharing.

Also if we obtain another Edge is Nwosu well suited to play inside? Lastly are all edges usually larger than a 4-3 olb? Point being, are we not going to see J. Adams moonlighting at LB? I mean in a 3-4 set not sub packages?

 

[blackjack203]

Okay, for those of you screaming DYOR, I did just read through https://footballadvantage.com/3-4-defense/


The site helps with the basics. Still curious about Green and some other fits though.

 

[hawkfan68]

Okay, for those of you screaming DYOR, I did just read through https://footballadvantage.com/3-4-defense/


The site helps with the basics. Still curious about Green and some other fits though.

Thanks for the link. I think they see Jamal Adams as the "B" or 'Bandit" in the 3-4 defense. I don't believe the Seahawks have enough quality LBs to pull off a 3-4 right now but there is still time. 3-4 relies heavily on LBs but if Adams is moved to closer to LOS on a permanent basis, it could work. Neal and Diggs at Safety in this scenario. Or if they draft Kyle Hamilton at #9, then you can have Hamilton and Diggs at safety. Lots of options to work with.

Back on topic, I liked Dunlap. I hope he lands somewhere where is valued again because he can provide tremendous impact when used correctly.

 

[Fade]

:greetingsearthling:

Fade you just touched on one of my biggest questions about the 3-4. In short, I'm not entirely clear on what teams are looking for from each position (especially the front 7). I get that the ends need to be stout enough to stop the run and that you need a stopper at the nose. That said, what is about Green's abilities make him a poor fit. Too light? Genuinely curious if you don't mind sharing.

Also if we obtain another Edge is Nwosu well suited to play inside? Lastly are all edges usually larger than a 4-3 olb? Point being, are we not going to see J. Adams moonlighting at LB? I mean in a 3-4 set not sub packages?

You're on it.
Green, Hyder, Dunlap, etc. aren't stout enough to be base 3-4 ends. And they aren't agile or fast enough to play Edge, especially when they have to stand up.

3-4 DE's are usually around 290-310 Ibs, and have to be extremely powerful and stout to do more 2-gapping, take OT head on, get push, etc. Collier as big of a bust as he's been fits this defense better.

Now with Green he is a little longer and bigger, than both Dunlap & Hyder, so they might keep him around on the cheap as an interior pass rusher on obvious pass rushing downs. But he does not fit a 3-4 base as he'd just get pushed around.

4-3 DE's are lighter are around 260-285 Ibs, they have to be quick and shoot their gap.

A freak such as JJ Watt in his prime could do both, but most guys are going to usually slot into one or the other.

3-4 Edge guys are typically 6-2 to 6-5 around 245-270 Ibs. And are athletic freaks. What the Leo position has been for the Seahawks in the past basically. Think Chris Clemons, Darrell Taylor. Those kind of guys.

Nwosu is going to be an Edge guy only I would think. But if Taylor or himself were to get injured. It would be nice to have another guy ready to step in.

If they are smart they will move Jamal Adams around like a death backer and become a blitz heavy team like he was used with the Jets. He will not be used as a traditional ILB in a 3-4, too small.

3-4 ILB have to deal more with shedding blocks from guards. So they tend to be bigger, Barton might be too small. I don't know yet, have to see him in the defense to know.

Elaborating more on Poona, he is a small 1-Tech, that has amazingly quick feet and low pad leverage, which works perfectly in a 1-gapping scheme where he can shoot the gap between the Guard and the Center. Moving to a 3-4 putting him at the Nose. Head up with the Center, that strips him of this ability. Now it's about brute strength and taking on double teams, while still kicking ass and getting push. Poona doesn't fit that role, but Al Woods does. So they have to come up with a creative plan for Poona to keep him effective, or trade him.

A final note on Alton Robinson. I think he can play Edge, but he might just be an undersized 4-3 end, and not fit either. Haven't seen enough of him either to know for sure.

 

[blackjack203]

Fade, this is great. Thank you! I was actually feeling bad about Green perhaps moving on but this helps.

I would love to see the hawks double dip on NG in this year's draft. There's some really good ones this year

I think one of the exciting things about a 3-4 def is that there's simply more people that can play it. I mean the 4-3 is great if you can find that one DT that can defend the run and collapse the pocket but it seems hard to find one.

Tweener's for the Edge, Large DE's, NG, seems like you can find those every year. We can always change the looks up here and there. Maybe they'll use Poona that way. Really looking forward to seeing this come together.

 

[sutz]

Well, I don't think we're gonna be a pure every down 3-4 D. Not many teams are these days. They're all hybrids, cycling guys in and out based on down and distance and the current game plan.

 

[Fade]

Fade, this is great. Thank you! I was actually feeling bad about Green perhaps moving on but this helps.

I would love to see the hawks double dip on NG in this year's draft. There's some really good ones this year

I think one of the exciting things about a 3-4 def is that there's simply more people that can play it. I mean the 4-3 is great if you can find that one DT that can defend the run and collapse the pocket but it seems hard to find one.

Tweener's for the Edge, Large DE's, NG, seems like you can find those every year. We can always change the looks up here and there. Maybe they'll use Poona that way. Really looking forward to seeing this come together.

The Seahawks are doing this because they play in a division with McVay and Shanahan. Their bread and butter is outside zone. Everything goes off of that.

Stout Ends, and physical freaks setting the edge is how you shut that down. Easier said than done.

 

[Fade]

Well, I don't think we're gonna be a pure every down 3-4 D. Not many teams are these days. They're all hybrids, cycling guys in and out based on down and distance and the current game plan.

Yes, but they clearly needed new personnel to run their 3-4 looks. All of their moves so far point to that.

 

[Vesuve]

So with this happening are they switching to more of a 3-4 look?

That's likely why.

 

[blackjack203]

Well, I don't think we're gonna be a pure every down 3-4 D. Not many teams are these days. They're all hybrids, cycling guys in and out based on down and distance and the current game plan.

Yes, but they clearly needed new personnel to run their 3-4 looks. All of their moves so far point to that.

If they are looking for more depth at the edge but feel like they have starters there, I wonder if they will pass on that position at no 9. Pick up another LB later. Are we going to see them actually take Oline in the first? Or CB? Out of character I know. Jordan Davis would be fun to have. I don't care if he's one dimensional.

Hijacked the thread a bit here. Truth is I'm a huge Dunlap fan and just trying not think about it. I know he's not a 3-4 guy.

 

[mistaowen]

This position will require coverage ability given the shift to 3-4. Clearly that didn't work last year when the brilliant defensive staff kept dropping him and DT's into coverage rather than maximize his skills rushing the passer. Taylor and Nwosu will be able to provide coverage and set the edges, along with rushing the QB.

 

[Seattle Person]

Yes they are moving to a 3-4. Still do not have the personel to run it but we will soon enough.

The personnel is staring to come together. You can see who is going to play where on the front 7.

Sam/OLB: Taylor (He actually prefers rushing from the strong side)
4i/5T: Harris
Nose: Woods
4i/5T: Ford
Leo/OLB: Nwosu

Dunlap, Hyder, Mayowa are 4-3 DEs. Best of luck to them.

Green doesn't fit this defense either. He can't rush from the interior. He has never been able to. He's not powerful enough to play base 4-3 or 3-4. He's a strong side DE rusher.

 

[hawkfan68]

There are a few edge guys, who have proven they can rush and cover, still available in FA -
Melvin Ingram, Za'Darius Smith (who was initially reported as signing with Ravens but reneged), and Jadeveon Clowney.
Getting one of these guys would be great shot in the arm for this defense.

 

[Seattle Person]

I don't think they'll sign another Edge type of player unless it's a great deal. They already spent on Nwosu. I'm guessing they add that player in the draft.

 

[hangumhi]

Somewhat surprising, but when your top sack guy has 10 or less sacks a season, maybe it's not such a big loss.

Some people have no clue. Dunlap dropped into coverage more times in one year than he has dropped into coverage in his entire career combined, because of a terrible defensive scheme. But ya...he was still expected to have 10 plus sacks while defending in the secondary. Good God the idiocy of some people.

This was a stupid FO move. Period! And if the Hawks are seriously going after baker mayfield...I will boycott this team until there's a massive leadership change because that would be the dumbest move Pete and John have ever made.