Free Agent list with ages and WAR stat

[DJrmb]

But do you HONESTLY think they are gonna' throw 300 mil at a free agent, right after the extensions to Julio and Castillo? I doubt it. It's not my money, I hope they do.

I think that is the problem for some of us who are frustrated. No, a lot of us don't expect them to spend like they need to (and like they themselves alluded to) in order to truly compete for a WS. So when they pass on obvious upgrades at positions of need and seem to be going cheap yet again it is extremely frustrating.

People seem to think that the Mariners can't compete with the likes of the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Astros, etc when it comes to payroll. That isn't true. The Mariners have as much money as any team in MLB when they compete. In 2001, the last time they were a consistently winning franchise, they recorded the #2 profit in the entire league only behind the Yankees (Link). When the Mariners put the money into the team to be good they take in as much money as the big boys. So it's not that they can't, it comes down to them not wanting to take on more risk (which is what people are alluding to when they state they run it like a business just for profit, and what ends up screwing over the fans). From a business perspective, why spend 250 million to make a 100 million, when you could spend 150 million and make that same 100 million or close?

Last year in 2021 coming off the shortened COVID year the Seattle Mariners made a profit of 313 million dollars (Link). So no fan should believe they can't up their payroll to at least the top 10 (170M) if not the top 5 (221M) if they were really in it to win and make the best effort for the fans. Mariners 2022 payroll was 114 million. Adding Trae Turners 27M per year would have only gotten them to around league average payroll this year...

 

[SoulfishHawk]

I've been bitching about them not spending money since the late 70's, I get it.
Then again, the rest of the league could have signed Turner. He made his choice, not much you can do if he chooses to go play in Philly. And we have no way of knowing if the M's offered him a deal. Just sayin

 

[DJrmb]

Turner is just an example, only one team was going to end up with him I get that. But there's plenty of guys that could really help this team bust this window of opportunity wide open.

I think we're all on the same page for the most part. We want them to spend big, but expect they won't. I hope they prove us wrong. Ultimately though, if they choose not to it's because they won't, not because they can't... I think there's plenty of evidence to prove they can (and I'd even argue they should) spend like the top 5 teams in MLB.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Now, just get us a good bat, and soon. Hearing they are interested in OF, Brian Reynolds. He has good numbers. But......would have to trade for him.

 

[Bobblehead]

Now, just get us a good bat, and soon. Hearing they are interested in OF, Brian Reynolds. He has good numbers. But......would have to trade for him.

Pirates don't seem to be interested in trading for him and wanted Julio last year.. so Im thinking it's not going to happen.

 

[seatownlowdown]

If you want to win a WS you need to spend in FA these days.

bingo.

and so no WS until we get a rich ownership group that cares about winning WS. we would need ultra tier scouting/drafting/developing to get to the WS without spending money on FA. put simply, the mariners owners are penny pinching cheapskates and the mariners are their cash cow. they're not the paul allen of baseball. they are in the bottom half of the league in spending year in, year out.

despite the handicap, i love dipoto's aggression, creativity and attempts at making $1.00 out of 15 cents.

 

[sutz]

Appreciate all the back and forth. In my mind I do agree, you have to spend big to win, but you still have to spend smart.

Heard some interesting talk this morning on Jake and Stacy, particularly about Reynolds. Yes, they wanted Julio and that was a non-starter last year. But this is this year. Perhaps a package of players and prospects could be sent to them that would seal the deal. He does sound like a great fit TBS. Maybe send them Kelenic and Brash and a couple of top prospects. I'm hoping Jerry can swing a meaningful deal this week at the winters.

Since we're a playoff capable team now, having top prospects is less of a "need" than it was prior to 2020. We have some good people down there in the minors, but if we have the confidence to be able to keep drafting well, spending that capital is less of a concern for future needs.

Perhaps they are looking forward to next off season and being in position to lure Ohtani here. Blowing $300 Mill this year could reduce leverage for next year.

Good stuff, and really, we're in the hard part of building a team now. It is harder to add 5-10 wins to your record from 90 win seasons than it is to add them to 75 win teams.

 

[DJrmb]

Reynolds would be absolutely amazing! Perfect fit with Julio in my opinion. It sounds like they want a king's ransom for him though (some are saying more than for Soto which is insane).

What would you give up for him?

I think we'd have to hope they still value Kelenic decently as any trade would likely start with him (since he'd be getting replaced and that relationship is already rocky). I saw speculation online say Kelenic, Brash, Hancock, Ford, and Diego Castillo... Seems like a lot but I may be valuing Kelenic and Brash more than others. Kelenic would need to go but they'd have to choose either Brash or Hancock, not get both for me to bite. Maybe replace Brash with a young OF like DeLoach, Marlowe, or Clase.

I agree with you Sutz on how to view prospects in this part of building the team. If you can trade "what you hope will be good" (prospects) for "already good" (proven MLB players) you do it all day.

 

[sutz]

Had a momentary start there when you said Castillo. Then I realized, Diego Castillo. He throws fire, but I never got comfortable with him on the mound. It's the kind of capital we spent on Luis Castillo, and we'd get Reynolds with 3 years of team control at fairly cheap rates. It's a lot, but Reynolds is an everyday player, and all we'd have to worry about it that whole NL to AL thing that seems to hit player BAs by 10-20 points.

 

[DJrmb]

Had a momentary start there when you said Castillo. Then I realized, Diego Castillo. He throws fire, but I never got comfortable with him on the mound. It's the kind of capital we spent on Luis Castillo, and we'd get Reynolds with 3 years of team control at fairly cheap rates. It's a lot, but Reynolds is an everyday player, and all we'd have to worry about it that whole NL to AL thing that seems to hit player BAs by 10-20 points.

I hope Wong somehow avoids that slump coming over from the NL, but I'm guessing he'll probably end up hitting like 235 here

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Castillo is one of the best pitchers in baseball. I couldn't muster up worry if I tried.

 

[sutz]

Castillo is one of the best pitchers in baseball. I couldn't muster up worry if I tried.

Luis, yes. Diego, not so much.

 

[SoulfishHawk]

Oh yeah, the other one.......mister can't stay still. OMG, every time he's in there I feel my BP going up. He needs to change his name

 

[Sports Hernia]

I think that is the problem for some of us who are frustrated. No, a lot of us don't expect them to spend like they need to (and like they themselves alluded to) in order to truly compete for a WS. So when they pass on obvious upgrades at positions of need and seem to be going cheap yet again it is extremely frustrating.

People seem to think that the Mariners can't compete with the likes of the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Astros, etc when it comes to payroll. That isn't true. The Mariners have as much money as any team in MLB when they compete. In 2001, the last time they were a consistently winning franchise, they recorded the #2 profit in the entire league only behind the Yankees (Link). When the Mariners put the money into the team to be good they take in as much money as the big boys. So it's not that they can't, it comes down to them not wanting to take on more risk (which is what people are alluding to when they state they run it like a business just for profit, and what ends up screwing over the fans). From a business perspective, why spend 250 million to make a 100 million, when you could spend 150 million and make that same 100 million or close?

Last year in 2021 coming off the shortened COVID year the Seattle Mariners made a profit of 313 million dollars (Link). So no fan should believe they can't up their payroll to at least the top 10 (170M) if not the top 5 (221M) if they were really in it to win and make the best effort for the fans. Mariners 2022 payroll was 114 million. Adding Trae Turners 27M per year would have only gotten them to around league average payroll this year...

Post of the decade right there!

 

[Crizilla]

Correa has the best WAR since 2020. Throw him a hefty short term contract. Would be a win win for both sides. No need for it to be 5+ years. I'm not expecting Judge to come here. If nothing happens this off-season then go after Ohtani. But LA and NY will give him the keys to the city to get him (probably will be the biggest contract in USA sports history). Right now the biggest hole is replacing Kelenic. They still need a legit outfielder or infielder to even compete with HOU.

 

[Sports Hernia]

There is no way the Mariners are going after Ohtani next year other then a lowball “hey, we tried offer.”
There will be a colossal bidding war for him. John Stanton doesn’t do bidding wars.


This year was the year to go “all in” on some stud FA’s, Dipoto even said as much months ago. He said the money will be there. It obviously isn’t up to this point.

Also don’t like hearing deals involving Ford, Hancock, Kirby or Gilbert.

FA’s only cost $$$, not talent and $$$.

 

[Sports Hernia]

Correa has the best WARr since 2020. Throwna hefty short term contract at him. Would be a win win for both sides. No need for it to be 5+ years. I'm not expecting judge to come here. If nothing happens then go after ohtani. But LA and NY will probably give him the keys to the city to get him. Right now the biggest hole is replacing kelenic. They still need a legit outfielder to even compete with HOU.

I hate to burst bubbles but if Seattle isn’t even trying to get Judge, they aren’t going after Ohtani next year.

 

[sutz]

There is no way the Mariners are going after Ohtani next year other then a lowball “hey, we tried offer.”
There will be a colossal bidding war for him. John Stanton doesn’t do bidding wars.


This year was the year to go “all in” on some stud FA’s, Dipoto even said as much months ago. He said the money will be there. It obviously isn’t up to this point.

Also don’t like hearing deals involving Ford, Hancock, Kirby or Gilbert.

FA’s only cost $$$, not talent and $$$.

Pretty sure Kirby and Gilbert are on the "hands off" list. Anybody in the farm system probably would be a go for someone like Reynolds.

Right now untouchable starting pitchers are Castillo, Ray, Kirby, Gilbert.

Everyday players Julio and Raleigh.

Not going anywhere JP, France, Wong (of course), Hernandez, etc...

 

[DJrmb]

Someone to keep an eye on is Japan's Masataka Yoshida. He's a left handed bat that hits for high average and doesn't strike out much. However, he doesn't have the big lefty power they really want and he's supposedly not great in the OF defensively, more of a DH that could spot start in the OF sometimes... Those might be sacrifices they're willing to make though if they don't have to pay a guy 20M+/year.

 

[seatownlowdown]

I think that is the problem for some of us who are frustrated. No, a lot of us don't expect them to spend like they need to (and like they themselves alluded to) in order to truly compete for a WS. So when they pass on obvious upgrades at positions of need and seem to be going cheap yet again it is extremely frustrating.

People seem to think that the Mariners can't compete with the likes of the Dodgers, Yankees, Red Sox, Astros, etc when it comes to payroll. That isn't true. The Mariners have as much money as any team in MLB when they compete. In 2001, the last time they were a consistently winning franchise, they recorded the #2 profit in the entire league only behind the Yankees (Link). When the Mariners put the money into the team to be good they take in as much money as the big boys. So it's not that they can't, it comes down to them not wanting to take on more risk (which is what people are alluding to when they state they run it like a business just for profit, and what ends up screwing over the fans). From a business perspective, why spend 250 million to make a 100 million, when you could spend 150 million and make that same 100 million or close?

Last year in 2021 coming off the shortened COVID year the Seattle Mariners made a profit of 313 million dollars (Link). So no fan should believe they can't up their payroll to at least the top 10 (170M) if not the top 5 (221M) if they were really in it to win and make the best effort for the fans. Mariners 2022 payroll was 114 million. Adding Trae Turners 27M per year would have only gotten them to around league average payroll this year...

simply put, the mariners are run like a business, the mariners are a cashcow for mariners ownership. after 21 straight years of not making the playoffs, now would have been the time, if any, that i would have thought that they would open up their checkbooks and put the team in contention for WS. this situation paired with an amazing FA market, filled with 5+ WAR players at key positions that needed upgraded.

but nope, everything is done through trades for mid-tier, cost-controlled players.

but of course.