Golden State Warriors

[IndyHawk]

Cleveland outplayed GS in game 6 and for sure deserved the win. I still think the Cavs have to win Game 7. If they do then it's an all time great performance by Lebron the entire finals. Hands down. But man, the NBA is so soft nowadays. I just don't get how that was a foul on Curry. The call wasn't on the steal attempt. It was way after that. But he didn't even touch the cavs players. Snuck right between them. If anything ticky tack like that is called at any point in Game 7, that will be a disgrace.

I agree on the soft part(very soft) and the fouls being called is the norm because the rules have been changed from when it was a real game.It's all about protecting the brand from injury and promoting the image of safety on the court which means protecting their precious $$$$$.This is why today Curry doesn't doesn't get jacked on screens as he would have in the 80's/90's they wouldn't have put up with his antics.The play you spoke of he did make contact when reaching to try to steal while the were going upcourt.

 

[Crizilla]

The ref didn't blow the whistle on that part though. Unless he was super late on it. He called the foul at a terrible time because curry went right between the 2 cavs (1 cav flopped majorly even). I can see why curry got pissed. It's like the refs don't know what to do. A no call on the steal attempt but a call on that? They need to make up their mind and keep it consistent.

 

[knownone]

I find it funny that Steph Curry's wife said the NBA is rigged last night. I can't imagine that's what the NBA wants to hear from the MVP of the league's wife, but I can't really blame her. Last night's game was some of the most biased officiating I can remember, since the Celtics and Lakers in 2010. The sad part? Cleveland was clearly the better team, yet at no point in Cleveland's domination, did I feel like the game was being fairly called, which is pretty sad.

I know some of you are betting on game 7. If you think momentum is on Cleveland's side, and think Lebron is going to will his team to victory, keep this in mind. Cleveland got away with a lot of grabbing and holding during screens, the refs allowed them to be physical with the Warriors on both sides of the ball, but called it very tight on the Warriors under similar circumstances. If they call the game tighter on Cleveland, Steph Curry and Klay Thompson will explode, that's my biggest concern as a Cav's fan going into game 7.

I think the biggest tell will be who the officials are. As of right now Monty McCutchen, Derrick Stafford, Jason Phillips, and Scott Foster have called fairly erratic games which have favored Cleveland. In fact McCutchen and Stafford have officiated two of Cleveland's wins (Game 3 and Game 5). More interesting is that the Warriors are 0-3 in the playoffs with McCutchen on the court, 2 of those 3 he was the crew chief. Currently it sounds like Game 7 will probably have Dan Crawford or Mike Callahan (maybe both) two guys who've called fairly tight games both ways, this IMO benefits Golden State.

I'll be pulling for the city of Cleveland, I want them to end that curse so badly! but I've got a bad feeling that this will be a Golden State blow out. If I see Dan Crawford and Callahan. I'd almost be down to throw money on it... which is odd for a Finals game 7. Do I think it's rigged? No. I don't think Mrs. Curry claim is that far off though.

I understand the skepticism with NBA. I read the Tim Donogahy book, he was fixing games for quite some time in the NBA. And he mentioned how other officials would make bets between each other on various things (who can give a technical first, who can throw out this coach or that player, etc.). Fixing isn't happening by the NBA, Silver and the NBA aren't that dumb. If it does happen, it's a ref who is doing it on his own. Maybe it happened way back in the day, but in today's world, you can't hide anything. We live in a day and age where everything gets exposed thanks to the media and social media.

And while were on the topic of fixes I'll dive deeper into it. First of all, it's a psychology thing. If a weird thing happens once every few years, people jump to the "It's Fixed" theory. Okay so the NBA suspended Draymond Green in a pivotal game, when was the last time you can remember the NBA suspending a player in a key game? I can't think of one off the top of my head. We never remember the times when things go quickly (4-game sweeps or short 5 game series). But we remember the times when "weird" stuff happens. Here are some examples:

- The biggest money maker could have been in 2009. Kobe and the Lakers advanced to the finals, all they needed was LeBron's Cavs to beat Dwight Howard's Magic. They would have had Kobe vs LeBron. That matchup would have made all kinds of money. But it never happened, instead Magic advanced and got beat quickly in 5 games.
- The Finals last year were won in 5 games. Very short. How come they didn't fix it to 6 or 7 games?
- The Finals 2 years ago only went 5 games, with the Spurs beating the Heat 4-1. Why not 6 or 7 games?
- In 2012, after falling behind 0-1 to the Thunder, they won 4 consecutive games and finished the series in 5 games. Why not 6 or 7 games?

There are about as many 4 and 5 game series as there are 6 and 7 game series. IMO, a sweep is much more rare than a 7 game series. IMO, logically the most common would proabbly be a 6 game series.

I think you're taking the concept of "rigging" to literally. The NBA has advanced stats on the referees as well as the players, they know how each individual ref is going to call a game, they even have pregame meetings about what they want to emphasize. So let's dive into that...

The Warriors Uncontested Field Goal Percentage (UFG%) is about 50% on the year, UFG% is one of the better ways to accurately gauge effectiveness of scoring off-screens, but it's slightly skewed because all open shots are included. However, if we also included the "Catch and Shoot" and "CDs%" stats we can effectively eliminate a lot of the margin for error. So without going deep into the math let's assume the UFG% adjusted with Catch and Shoot and CDs% is roughly 45% (ignoring the fact that the eFG% would actually be about 55%). This is where it get's interesting, if you adjust the CDs% to include (+4 tight 2-4 feet and -4 open 4-6 feet) you can effectively lower the shooting from 45% to about 41% (taking into account frequency) even more jarring is that you've significantly dropped the eFG% from 54% to 49%. Throw in the fact that in their 8 losses the Warriors average eFG% is 50% and in their 15 wins is 55%, we can concluded that as little as 8 scoring opportunities can have a statistically significant impact on the outcome of a game.

Now why is this important? well, if you have a referee who you know statistically calls screens loosely and allows the defense to grab and be physical, you can have a massive affect on the outcome of a particular game, while not actually doing anything illegal. No secrets to hide, no giant conspiracy, just a bit of advanced analytics and suggestive influence. That doesn't guarantee a win for which ever team benefits from the calls, it just levels the playing field, and that is why so many people think the NBA is rigged.

I personally don't think the NBA would determine outcomes of games before hand. You mention the 2009 playoffs with Lebron and Kobe, that series between the Magic and Cavs wasn't even close, I don't know how that is a reasonable example. However, in the case of Draymond Green, the NBA has the opportunity to suspend a player on a fairly polarizing play... yeah why wouldn't they? this is one of the highest rated finals in years, suspending Green had the potential to extend that, and now we will have what is projected to be the highest rated NBA game this decade. Let's for moment assume instead of Draymond hitting Lebron, it was Kyrie hitting Steph in game 4, does the NBA suspend Kyrie? probably not, it doesn't benefits them in any positive way. Thus!! Conspiracy lol

 

[hawknation2016]

Right now, I would compare these Warriors to the 2014 Seahawks.

I actually thought that as well, but it would only hold up if GS loses game 7 in a heartbreaker (like GS having a wide open layup at the buzzer but missing it).

Yup.

 

[Hawk-Lock]

2007 Pats go 16-0.....and lose in the SB.
2016 Warriors go 73-9.....and lose in the Finals.
The 2001 Mariners win 116 games.....and don't even make the World Series.
1996 Red Wings won 62 games .....and didn't even reach the Stanely Fup Final.

Regular season winning records mean nothing in pro sports.

 

[Crizilla]

yep and just last year cardinals had best record in MLB and lost in first round

2013 Seahawks > 2007 patriots

 

[Hasselbeck]

Late getting into this thread following Sunday but wow.. what a game that was. What a brilliant performance from LeBron in the final 3 games (even though at the end it appeared Bron was finally gassing out a bit) and just what a surreal collapse from the Warriors who had the series in complete control before the Game 5 suspension just seemed to spiral everything out of control.

Still feel like when both teams are healthy and at full strength that the Warriors are far and away the better team, but superstars transcend that sometimes - and LeBron put up a series for the ages this year. Anyone that continues to hate the guy is just ridiculous at this point. Sorry but he's the best player this league has seen since MJ hung it up.

Have a feeling we may see Cavs-Warriors III next June. Golden State is going to be a dominant force in the league once again, and no one in the East is going to stand up to the Cavs again next year - especially if they move Love for some much needed depth.

 

[IndyHawk]

Late getting into this thread following Sunday but wow.. what a game that was. What a brilliant performance from LeBron in the final 3 games (even though at the end it appeared Bron was finally gassing out a bit) and just what a surreal collapse from the Warriors who had the series in complete control before the Game 5 suspension just seemed to spiral everything out of control.

Still feel like when both teams are healthy and at full strength that the Warriors are far and away the better team, but superstars transcend that sometimes - and LeBron put up a series for the ages this year. Anyone that continues to hate the guy is just ridiculous at this point. Sorry but he's the best player this league has seen since MJ hung it up.

Have a feeling we may see Cavs-Warriors III next June. Golden State is going to be a dominant force in the league once again, and no one in the East is going to stand up to the Cavs again next year - especially if they move Love for some much needed depth.

I feel like the Cavs when healthy can handle GS which they did and probaly would have last year if they had Love/Irving.GS lives and dies by that 3 pt and the Cavs learned to deal with it.I think the Cavs repeat next year both teams will be good but they are not far and better than other,I disagree..

 

[Hasselbeck]

I feel like the Cavs when healthy can handle GS which they did and probaly would have last year if they had Love/Irving.GS lives and dies by that 3 pt and the Cavs learned to deal with it.I think the Cavs repeat next year both teams will be good but they are not far and better than other,I disagree..

Could be the case. The offseason will bring a lot of interesting moves as it typically does. Sounds like GS is going to be super aggressive in FA/trades as well. I imagine the Cavs won't stand pat either.

 

[Throwdown]

I'd like to see Cleveland add another big either a Center or forward and pick up another shooter and if possible upgrade the back up point guard spot.